I am seeking help as a software developer. Before going into the Computer Science major, I wanted to be an IT guy but there wasn't a major for that. So the closest thing to IT is Computer Science. I told myself, I'm just gonna get this major and will never program for a living because it's boring. Turns out, I love it. I love how it challenges me to the point of frustration. I love how in the end, the code flows flawlessly and everything works. Figuring out algorithms is like finding a hundred dollar bill; it's so satisfying. But there's one problem....

This is my first year in college in a Computer Science major. As I sit in class, I hear all these stories about people knowing how to program in three different languages and some people already got jobs as a programmer. Also, whenever we do class exercises, a lot of people finish their code so quick. This is only second semester C++ programming. I just feel so "dumb" compared to these guys. This kind of aggravates me but in a good way. This makes me more determined to excel.

But am I doing anything wrong here? I'm receive A's in my CS classes but yet there's just some outrageous programmers in my class. I work very hard to understand the course work and thought that I was a genius at this. But looking at these guys makes my morale towards programming go waaay down. I just feel like I'm not good enough when time comes to apply for a job and these guys are the applicants also.

I'm starting to look into programming for the Droid just to get experience because I feel like I need a lot of extra practice to keep up with these guys.

How were your experiences when you started out as a software developer? What challenges did you face? Any inputs would greatly assist me in my path as a software developer because I know I'm good at consolidating things and formalizing it into knowledge. You can talk about your first job experience and how frustrating it was working in groups. Or how do you go about making codes work when you're completely stuck? Again, any inputs. The skies' the limit.

 

I thought Computer Engineer with a buttload of certifications was the major for IT guy?

 

Well they both involve coding. All I wanted before was to work as an IT guy doing everything from security to networking. I just didn't want to go that path because you don't even need a degree to be an IT guy. Just a bunch of high profile certification is good enough.

I know couple of people with no degree making 80k just doing IT. I could have gone that route and take a short cut, buy my family would not allow it (Asian). So I wanted a degree to compliment my certificates but as you can see, I had a change of heart.

 

 

If you're getting A's, I wouldn't worry about what other people are doing. I came into my school not knowing anything about programming, but I knew other people were gonna blast their way through it because they've had prior programming experience. I just have to work harder and longer than most for my A's. For instance, right now I'm studying advanced ASP/C#, working on an assignment that most of my class has already done .. I'm only half-way done plus I needed help. Does it frustrate me and bend my pride? Sure, but it's worse spending some of my valuable time wondering why I'm not getting shit done fast enough.

 

I don't have a career... But I am a Comp Sci major as well (and I'm Asian) and I'm pretty much on the same page as you as far as coding goes. I originally started in networking (Cisco) but since basic programming courses are required and programming grew on me. I still get schooled by kids on my classes but don't let that get you down. A lot of times these guys that can program sometimes just pick it up and go and some of them are guys that come back to school to re-fresh. Either way, just keep working at it... That's what I did anyways.

 

Academically I'm not so worried, I'm more worried about after graduation where I know enough to get a degree whereas some guys know enough to finish a huge software project.

But you're right though, I'm wasting time just dwelling and wondering why these guys pick up programming so quick.

 

I would say at your stage, learning computer science fundamentals is more important than learning how to apply them in 5 different technologies --learning to apply them in 1 or 2 technologies is important so you're doing something with your knowledge; but there's no reason to learn specifics of a technology (android apis for example) that won't be around or the same in a few years unless you're learning it because its fun (ie its time you would've spent playing video games).

If you're getting A's and still feel behind, its either because your classes are too easy and everyone else is also getting A's but are still ahead of you; or you're feeling of being behind is wrong.

By the way, many employers know you won't have worked on large software projects as a student and would rather have the smarter student than the experienced student. Having both certainly helps. But if its one or the other, I'd take grades & smartness. Your first year of full time work will dwarf any experience you had in college (40-60hours/week for a year > 10 hours/week for 4 years).

You should spend the summers filling in the experience gap if you feel necessary (either by finding a job, or by doing it on your own by deciding to build some software application and then building the entire stack -- client app, web site/service, server database would be great).

 

4?

 

stop learning C.

Start learning Ruby, xhtml, css, javascript & php.

 

Don't worry about everyone else. If you're understanding the logic and can complete the projects then you're doing fine.

As you continue working and learning in this field you'll pick up different strategies and logic. Give ten programmers the same specs and you'll get ten different programs all doing the same thing. That's one of the things I love about this field.

I too had a bunch of guys in my classes that seemed to be a whiz at banging out code. But a lot of times what they were doing or the way they were going about doing it was not the most practical. Did it work? Yes. Was it efficient? Could it be modified or adapted to another application? Or did it just do what was asked. One of the phrases I've kept on my desk throughout my career is that it's easy to make the simple complex. The key is to make the complex simple.

Keep at it, keep an open mind and stop worrying about the next guy and the way they are doing things.

 

Honestly, most of what I know and have learned has been from on the job experience and NOT from school.

Work through it and earn your degree. You'll do just fine.

 

+1.

x2. There was a guy like that in my grad school classes and I always thought he was better than I was. He never graduated.

 

You don't even need to end up being a developer in order to have a fundamental knowledge of coding serve you well. My job would be considered an "IT person" by 99% of the world and I can't tell you how many times I've thought to myself "If I only knew how to code, I'd be able to write something to take care of that."

 

I've worked for a number of software companies but always been on the IT and QA side of things, but every programmer works at different speeds, don't worry about other guys and what they're doing. If you're getting A's going at your pace then you're doing just fine, you will get quicker with practice seeing that you're still learning basics. I don't program because I hate writing code, but still script all of the time which is essentially the same thing. But if you're learning and enjoying it, keep at it. Working in the computer field can be very frustrating but also very rewarding no matter what part of the field you work in. I've been at it for 12 years now

 

He said C++, not C.

 

I spent 29 years as a programmer->progammer/analyst->software engineer, retiring last September after a layoff. For me, I never got tired of coding but some people's code is horrendous. Always keep in mind who will come after you (might be you months or years later) who has to modify your code.

There will always be people who are better and worse than yourself. Don't let this get to you and stay the course. Learn as much as you can and then improve and apply what you learn. The best developers are those who can see both the whole picture and its details - this is not easy with large systems, but not beyond your abilities, either. Make yourself valuable and you will reap the rewards.

Pick something you tend to really be good at. Database calls via code or scripts, HTML/XML development, backend applications, tools development. Find out what you can do quickly and accurately and become the "goto" guy. Don't dispare and don't give up. If you just can't seem to get a handle on a project or system, try to transfer or look elsewhere - not every one is good at everything in this business.

Try your best not to be intimidated by the gurus. This is hard, but you will only dig a deeper hole if they get to you.

 

Wow you took the same path that I want to take. I want to be a programmer and then be my own boss by being a software engineer (not quite my own boss but good enough).

I'm not being cocky or overconfident here, but I know that I'm better than most of these guys when it comes to people skills. In my software engineering class, these guys are total shy guys when it comes to group discussion. I was already assumed team leader because I talked the most. When the professor asked for one representative to come up to the front and present our ideas, they all looked around like they didn't hear him and one of them just stared at me and handed me the paper.

BTW southernboy, was it pretty easy for you to land your first job? And being laid off is pretty scary. Were you confident enough to know that you can find another job after the layoff?

Thanks for the advice though guys. Makes me feel a lot better.

 

My trip down the software development path began in October of 1980 as a career change when I started my first job in the business. I was still in college part time at night and it took me a year and a half before someone took a chance with me allowing me to launch my career as an entry level programmer. It was on antiquated machines with cards and using a proprietary language (RPG II), but it was a start. And frankly, it was the most fun I had at any of my jobs in the business. Great location, great new building, super staff, and one of the best managers under whom I have ever worked. We had a ball.

I've been laid off three times, the first being in 1999. That one was with a French company and the layoff package was nuts - as in lots of money. People were trying to transfer off of other projects just to get laid off. I was employed again a week later so I double dipped for 2 1/2 months. I know some people who walked away with over a quarter of a million dollars with that one.

The second layoff was with a small startup pre-IPO company four weeks after starting there - my manager was also laid off two weeks later as was most of the staff at the site. I then went back into contracting.

The layoff last September was one we knew was coming for two years, so it was no surprise. I was about 2 1/2 years away from retiring so I figured what the hey. I'll just retire early - which I did.

Since you mentioned that you have good people skills, you might want to think about moving into management once you get into something. Technical types tend NOT to make very good managers because they have a hard time dealing with people and frankly, know little about how to properly manage personnel.

 

Yea I'm definitely looking to not program my whole life and would like to manage a project instead.

Being in the Army, I work with people all the time. Also being responsible for soldiers below me is a big plus because you have to keep their morale up while accomplishing tasks at the same time.

Is being a programmer in general means more lay off than other careers? The way I see it, if there's no projects, there's no job.

Lets say you and your team is assigned a project and deadline is 8 months. It's not like there's another project that is planned to begin 8 months down the line. What happens in between projects though? Do companies still pay you?

 

I have done my fair share of coding. Computer Engineering degree from good school, started out at a dot com, moved on to a bigger dot com,then i eventually moved into finance (I have a good math background).

To me, i think if you like CS, see if you can also minor in Math or something, they are actually pretty similar, go hand in hand and both are very useful, pretty much applicable to a lot of industry, especially finance.

Personally, I think the programming requirement in finance world is a lot more challenging. In some pure IT jobs I had held, folks care more about structure, OOP and whatnots, granted that you know them, however in finance, it is a lot more about efficiency, shortcuts, creative ways to calculating things (reducing loops/stacks, using math formulas instead of if/case statements, etc.). To me, that is what CS is supposed to be (I am also sick and tired of servetls ).

As far as feeling the pressure at school, that is good, just keep on doing what you are doing. Yeah, you should know that if someone can pump out codes, it doesn't mean good codes, right? A good coder takes a lot more time to think before actually start coding.

Another piece of advice in real world? Another criteria of a good coder is that other people can easily understand. A convoluted piece of code with no comments but loaded with unnecessary loops and shorthand notations will bound to piss people off, besides that only means you never think before do. There is a trade-off between structure and efficiency, find the sweet spot then you are golden.

 

The last layoff I went through hit the development and engineering staff first. After that, the sysadmin group go hit. There is not a cut-and-dried path to layoffs. They can affect an entire department or project. Our project was entering into a maintenance and support mode since all of the feature development work was over.

 

Why haven't you considered CIS instead? Nothing wrong with what you are doing. CS is how most developers get started, but if you want to go into "IT" I'd recommend learning more about networking (ie: theory, administration, web, database, security, etc...) Also research and learn about Cloud Computing (next big thing). If you do that your CS degree will still be relevant and helpful, because everyone needs a code aware person on staff even if it is not a code shop.

 

CIS as in Computer Information Systems?

California's university doesn't have that degree. It's either Computer Engineering or CS. I think it's a bit too late for me to get into networking as it's really a whole different field. It's really too hard for me to focus on those two at the same time. But in my degree, there is a focus in the CS program. My focus will be Networking so hopefully I can get the best of both worlds.

 

Are you looking at the business school/department? That's where the "light" computer degree programs usually are.

On your original question, I was a programmer for 10 years starting in 1987. I did a lot of hiring (one of the reasons I'm not still a programmer is that I kept getting promoted to management, yuck). There are two kinds of programmers, and academic performance doesn't distinguish between them - ones who "get it" and ones that don't. There are more of the latter than the former out there.

From your description, I'd guess that you "get it" since you think finding algorithms is satisfying, but you're a little slow. That's fine. You haven't been doing anything long enough that you SHOULD be fast & proficient. The fast guys may have been coding in whatever for a few years already, so they should be faster. If your solutions are as good as theirs, then you're just as marketable. If you're not significantly faster coding C++ by the time you graduate, you might rethink.