Kobe
03-26-2007, 04:19 PM
#42
Originally Posted by goose25
...and who's fault is it that he's currently playing on some crappy teams? If old #8, er 24 hadn't demanded that Shaq and Phil both go as part of the deal for him resigning with the Lakers then he may have won another ring or two. 
Someone's suffering from revisionist history. Jordan was just as poor of a teammate and a "ball hog" that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time. If Jordan hadn't run off Phil Collins as a coach, he might've won another ring or two as well. You're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.
03-26-2007, 04:25 PM
#44
Originally Posted by cazzy
As I said in my initial post, this is not a Kobe-MJ comparison. It is not fair to Kobe or Jordan to compare the two. Typically, ignorant haters compare Kobe to MJ because that is their only method to bring him down. You have to put all your feelings aside and judge him as a basketball player, but some people are just too unaware to recognize the greatness of Kobe's game. MJ is the greatest to ever dribble the rock, so THERE WILL NEVER be another Jordan. Kobe is making a name for himself though, which is why at 28, he is virtual lock for the NBA Hall of Fame.
Kobe, a scrub? Maybe as a person off the court. Sure, his off the court persona is far from great, but he works harder than anybody in the league and his performances on the court are far from “scrub status.” I would love to hear you explain how he is a scrub...please enlighten me.
Kobe, a scrub? Maybe as a person off the court. Sure, his off the court persona is far from great, but he works harder than anybody in the league and his performances on the court are far from “scrub status.” I would love to hear you explain how he is a scrub...please enlighten me.
If Kobe is a scrub off the court, then Jordan is no better. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, everyone would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
The level of media scrutiny is not the same today as it was when Jordan was playing the game.
03-26-2007, 05:45 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by brianlin87
BoostedJack is a moron. Kobe as a basketball player is the best there is in the game today. Hands down. No one is even close. As you stated, Kobe is the one everyone ignorant loves to hate.
If Kobe is a scrub off the court, then Jordan is no better. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, everyone would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
The level of media scrutiny is not the same today as it was when Jordan was playing the game.
If Kobe is a scrub off the court, then Jordan is no better. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, everyone would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
The level of media scrutiny is not the same today as it was when Jordan was playing the game.
03-26-2007, 05:55 PM
#47
Keeping emos out of
Originally Posted by brianlin87
You're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.
03-26-2007, 05:58 PM
#48
Keeping emos out of
Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
Kobe is good the closest we've had to the next Jordan, but he's still not at the level of MJ.
03-26-2007, 06:01 PM
#49
Keeping emos out of
Originally Posted by brianlin87
And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, everyone would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
The level of media scrutiny is not the same today as it was when Jordan was playing the game.
The level of media scrutiny is not the same today as it was when Jordan was playing the game.
Those gambling issues only affected Jordan, not anyone else. His gambling was far lesser of an issue than raping some hotel whore and when confronted about it by 5 0 ratting out a teammate. Would jordan have done something that shitty, hells no. Plus Jordan had much respect around the league amongst fellow players can the same be said for Kobe?
03-26-2007, 06:18 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by goose25
Those gambling issues only affected Jordan, not anyone else. His gambling was far lesser of an issue than raping some hotel whore and when confronted about it by 5 0 ratting out a teammate. Would jordan have done something that shitty, hells no. Plus Jordan had much respect around the league amongst fellow players can the same be said for Kobe?
Him selling out Shaq was bad...I have nothing...it was a piss poor thing to do.
03-26-2007, 06:20 PM
#51
J M U ... DUUUKEESSSS
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Originally Posted by goose25
Those gambling issues only affected Jordan, not anyone else. His gambling was far lesser of an issue than raping some hotel whore and when confronted about it by 5 0 ratting out a teammate. Would jordan have done something that shitty, hells no. Plus Jordan had much respect around the league amongst fellow players can the same be said for Kobe?
03-26-2007, 06:27 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by goose25
I don't remember making a statement about Jordan's ego, anyway, Jordan probably would have had issues playing with Shaq also, but he never played with a dominant center. Once he figured out what winning was all about after being beaten down by the Pistons he started trusting his teammates and da Bullz really started to roll. Can you say that Kobe, after being in the league all these years, trusts his teammates enough to pass up the last shot, like Jordan did in big-time games? Naw, didn't think so. To compare Kobe to Jordan is like trying to compare Montana to Marino in football, there is no comparison. Kobe, just like Marino, was and still is a damn good player, probably the best active scorer in the Association, but he's really not on the same level as MJ and never will be.
03-26-2007, 07:25 PM
#53
Keeping emos out of
Originally Posted by cazzy
That slut got exactly what she wanted and then decided she wanted to get paid. I think that was evident by her showing up with all of AZ's sperm on her panties!
03-26-2007, 07:44 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by goose25
What got Kobe the rape charge was the attempted anal penetration, she was cool up until that point.
your from CO...it all makes sense now! 
03-26-2007, 07:56 PM
#55
Keeping emos out of
Originally Posted by cazzy
your from CO...it all makes sense now! I live in Colorado, there is a difference.
03-26-2007, 08:59 PM
#57
Keeping emos out of
Originally Posted by brianlin87
Someone's suffering from revisionist history. Jordan was just as poor of a teammate and a "ball hog" that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time. If Jordan hadn't run off Phil Collins as a coach, he might've won another ring or two as well. You're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.
Taken from Jemele Hill, ESPN page 2 And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...6&sportCat=nba
Have you any original thoughts on the subject matter or are you just going to plagiarize ESPN articles???
03-26-2007, 09:10 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by goose25
Taken from Jemele Hill, ESPN page 2 And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...6&sportCat=nba
Have you any original thoughts on the subject matter or are you just going to plagiarize ESPN articles???
Have you any original thoughts on the subject matter or are you just going to plagiarize ESPN articles???
03-26-2007, 09:25 PM
#59
Senior Moderator
And um, just read that ESPN article...and I completely disagree there. Alright, I'm no fan of his but I'll say that Kobe is indeed super-talented and special. That being said, him being better than MJ...? Blasphemy. And utter BS.
There are fewer teams IMO that play good defense overall now. Most players now are more concerned about show-boating and going for the highlight reel dunk than playing good defense. That being said, Jordan faced much stiffer defences in his hey-day than Bryant ever will. Just do a lookup of how many points he gets when he plays the Pistons or even the Bulls.
Yes, he's good...very good. But, there is no way in hell he's better than Jordan.
There are fewer teams IMO that play good defense overall now. Most players now are more concerned about show-boating and going for the highlight reel dunk than playing good defense. That being said, Jordan faced much stiffer defences in his hey-day than Bryant ever will. Just do a lookup of how many points he gets when he plays the Pistons or even the Bulls.
Yes, he's good...very good. But, there is no way in hell he's better than Jordan.
03-26-2007, 09:29 PM
#60
Keeping emos out of
Originally Posted by Yumchah
And um, just read that ESPN article...and I completely disagree there. Alright, I'm no fan of his but I'll say that Kobe is indeed super-talented and special. That being said, him being better than MJ...? Blasphemy. And utter BS.
There are fewer teams IMO that play good defense overall now. Most players now are more concerned about show-boating and going for the highlight reel dunk than playing good defense. That being said, Jordan faced much stiffer defences in his hey-day than Bryant ever will. Just do a lookup of how many points he gets when he plays the Pistons or even the Bulls.
Yes, he's good...very good. But, there is no way in hell he's better than Jordan.
There are fewer teams IMO that play good defense overall now. Most players now are more concerned about show-boating and going for the highlight reel dunk than playing good defense. That being said, Jordan faced much stiffer defences in his hey-day than Bryant ever will. Just do a lookup of how many points he gets when he plays the Pistons or even the Bulls.
Yes, he's good...very good. But, there is no way in hell he's better than Jordan.
03-26-2007, 09:47 PM
#61
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by goose25
That's exactly what i say about Kobe. He's an exceptional offensive player who may be the best in the league at putting up points, but there's more to being the best player than just putting up numbers, which is exactly why Nash has won two MVP awards in the last two years and Kobe has none.
03-27-2007, 09:18 AM
#64
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Originally Posted by goose25
That's exactly what i say about Kobe. He's an exceptional offensive player who may be the best in the league at putting up points, but there's more to being the best player than just putting up numbers, which is exactly why Nash has won two MVP awards in the last two years and Kobe has none.
Nash's first MVP...no question, he deserved the MVP. However, if Kobe was on a top 5 team last year, he would have won the MVP. That's nobodies fault though but the Lakers organization for not putting more talent around Kobe.
03-27-2007, 09:43 AM
#66
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Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
MJ has won 5 NBA Regular Season MVP's. Kobe has won none, but maybe he could win it this year.
03-27-2007, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by goose25
At which point, she said no and they stopped.Please refer me to the line that references the alleged anal penetration. These cops were fucking idiots IMO.
03-27-2007, 04:24 PM
#68
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Well, he's got nothing on this guy...
03-27-2007, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by goose25
Taken from Jemele Hill, ESPN page 2 And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...6&sportCat=nba
Have you any original thoughts on the subject matter or are you just going to plagiarize ESPN articles???
Have you any original thoughts on the subject matter or are you just going to plagiarize ESPN articles???
Today's NBA tougher? Watching the last 3-4 years, it's obvious that the league rules have changed, and that the game has been tweaked for offense. Stern has said so as much many times, about the move towards more exciting, freer and faster paced offenses. It's been every clear that the NBA has consciously moved away from the rough grind you down defenses of the past Detroit, New York and Miami teams. Many NBA player and officials close to the game have said that rule changes have allowed less defense, less contact and that offensive players are given more positioning. And the days of taking a charge inside are gone thanks to the 4' charge line. Back in the day, one you got inside you better have a shot. Now you can just run into someone and get a call.
I also don't buy that players now are quicker and stronger. For every athletic freak now I can name you one from 10 years ago. But that's not the point - the average athlete hasn't changed much from just 10-15 years ago, except for the cornrows and tats. I usually judge athletic evolution from track and field athletes. As records and times fall and significant new world records are posted, you can see a trend in how nutrition and new training are impacting athletes. And less records have fallen in the last 10 than in the previous 20.
But Kobe is a great player, just in a different era. As for Nash and Notwiski, I'll put it a different way from what I've said in the past. If you're a GM and you are GURANTEED 4 mediocre starters for the season. And you're sole missin is to win games. Who do you take with the first pick? I'll take Kobe first, Notwiski second. After that it's a toss up bewtween Nash and Wade and Lebron.
03-27-2007, 09:12 PM
#72
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by lowpost
All this time I thought Jemelle Hill was a dude....she doesn't know what she's talking about. Her arguments are simplistic and lack any real knowledge of the game. Shit it's like my mom having something to say.
Today's NBA tougher? Watching the last 3-4 years, it's obvious that the league rules have changed, and that the game has been tweaked for offense. Stern has said so as much many times, about the move towards more exciting, freer and faster paced offenses. It's been every clear that the NBA has consciously moved away from the rough grind you down defenses of the past Detroit, New York and Miami teams. Many NBA player and officials close to the game have said that rule changes have allowed less defense, less contact and that offensive players are given more positioning. And the days of taking a charge inside are gone thanks to the 4' charge line. Back in the day, one you got inside you better have a shot. Now you can just run into someone and get a call.
I also don't buy that players now are quicker and stronger. For every athletic freak now I can name you one from 10 years ago. But that's not the point - the average athlete hasn't changed much from just 10-15 years ago, except for the cornrows and tats. I usually judge athletic evolution from track and field athletes. As records and times fall and significant new world records are posted, you can see a trend in how nutrition and new training are impacting athletes. And less records have fallen in the last 10 than in the previous 20.
But Kobe is a great player, just in a different era. As for Nash and Notwiski, I'll put it a different way from what I've said in the past. If you're a GM and you are GURANTEED 4 mediocre starters for the season. And you're sole missin is to win games. Who do you take with the first pick? I'll take Kobe first, Notwiski second. After that it's a toss up bewtween Nash and Wade and Lebron.
Today's NBA tougher? Watching the last 3-4 years, it's obvious that the league rules have changed, and that the game has been tweaked for offense. Stern has said so as much many times, about the move towards more exciting, freer and faster paced offenses. It's been every clear that the NBA has consciously moved away from the rough grind you down defenses of the past Detroit, New York and Miami teams. Many NBA player and officials close to the game have said that rule changes have allowed less defense, less contact and that offensive players are given more positioning. And the days of taking a charge inside are gone thanks to the 4' charge line. Back in the day, one you got inside you better have a shot. Now you can just run into someone and get a call.
I also don't buy that players now are quicker and stronger. For every athletic freak now I can name you one from 10 years ago. But that's not the point - the average athlete hasn't changed much from just 10-15 years ago, except for the cornrows and tats. I usually judge athletic evolution from track and field athletes. As records and times fall and significant new world records are posted, you can see a trend in how nutrition and new training are impacting athletes. And less records have fallen in the last 10 than in the previous 20.
But Kobe is a great player, just in a different era. As for Nash and Notwiski, I'll put it a different way from what I've said in the past. If you're a GM and you are GURANTEED 4 mediocre starters for the season. And you're sole missin is to win games. Who do you take with the first pick? I'll take Kobe first, Notwiski second. After that it's a toss up bewtween Nash and Wade and Lebron.
with what I wrote as well...If I had to pick someone 1st overall...? Dwight Howard. No joke, either.
03-27-2007, 09:40 PM
#74
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by cazzy
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Hey, had to break up all this tension about Kobe better than MJ crap. It was getting way too serious in here.
Besides, we ALL know Kobe would get his @$$ handed to him if he took on Optimus Prime 1-on-1.
03-27-2007, 11:54 PM
#75
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Originally Posted by Yumchah
Hey, had to break up all this tension about Kobe better than MJ crap. It was getting way too serious in here.
Besides, we ALL know Kobe would get his @$$ handed to him if he took on Optimus Prime 1-on-1.
Now lets get down to real business...
Optimus Prime & Bumble Bee vs. MJ & Kobe
Who wins?
03-28-2007, 12:31 AM
#76
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by cazzy
Hey...you see my avatar...I know who the GOAT is. I really didn't want this to be a Kobe vs. Jordan thread, but I guess it's the inevitable. I think that alone speaks volumes to how good Kobe really is as most people can't talk about him without referencing how he's not better than MJ or this or that.
I mean, c'mon...it was just yesterday that Grant Hill was the next MJ. Oops. Then, it was Vince Carter. Oops. Then it was Tracy McGrady. Oops. Then it was LeBron James...kinda pending. But, oops. And NOW, the flavor of the week is back to Kobe again...All of this is to me, horseturd.
Kobe IMO is at best a Dominique Wilkins...and I'll probably get razed for this. But, that's the best I'll give him credit for. And believe me both are amazing players. But, the thing is, Kobe has proven time and time again (and look up any of his points scored) that when he plays against a team that has REALLY tough defence like the Bulls or Pistons...he wilts. He'll throw up a bazillion shots and maybe score 18-20. That's hardly Jordan-esque. MJ had to go against the bulldozing Knicks and Pistons often and still put up great numbers...I'm with you, dude. No comparison on who's THE best ever...
Originally Posted by cazzy
Now lets get down to real business...
Optimus Prime & Bumble Bee vs. MJ & Kobe
Who wins?
Optimus Prime & Bumble Bee vs. MJ & Kobe
Who wins?
03-28-2007, 12:46 AM
#77
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oh snap. optimus prime vs mj vs kobe this thread is just getting started. optimus prime is a better comparison to mj cus it was at least around the same era.
03-28-2007, 12:53 AM
#78
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Originally Posted by wasupdog
optimus prime is a better comparison to mj cus it was at least around the same era.
03-28-2007, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cazzy
As I said in my initial post, this is not a Kobe-MJ comparison. It is not fair to Kobe or Jordan to compare the two. Typically, ignorant haters compare Kobe to MJ because that is their only method to bring him down. You have to put all your feelings aside and judge him as a basketball player, but some people are just too unaware to recognize the greatness of Kobe's game..
03-28-2007, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by brianlin87
BoostedJack is a moron. Kobe as a basketball player is the best there is in the game today. Hands down. No one is even close. As you stated, Kobe is the one everyone ignorant loves to hate.
If Kobe is a scrub off the court, then Jordan is no better. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, everyone would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
The level of media scrutiny is not the same today as it was when Jordan was playing the game.
If Kobe is a scrub off the court, then Jordan is no better. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, everyone would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
The level of media scrutiny is not the same today as it was when Jordan was playing the game.
no need to argue here, you have no clue what I'm saying.... hence you're the moron.