Holy that's one of the slowest, if not the slowest trap speeds I've ever seen for the 3G TL AT. Most of the time I see 93-95mph.

A lot of those cars tend to have launch control systems too. I think trap speeds from what I've seen are pretty similar.

Also, a lot of those cars u mentioned are boosted. So in a 0-60mph test, with some brake torquing, u will have a lot of torque right from the start. Recent Hondas and Acuras don't have that much torque, and don't react well to brake torquing.

Jeff already did 5.5s and TOV has a good reputation.

Beside, you don't need to shave a full second from Edmunds number to get into mid 5's. Edmunds 0-60mph figure with 1ft rollout is already at 6s flat. Mags like C&D and MT all use 1ft rollout figures.

Forget about the thrill crap or red athletic shxt:

TLX 2.4, IS250, ATS 2.5, 320i
TLX V6, IS350, ATS 2.0T, A4 2.0T, 328i, C300
335i, C400, S4, TLX Type S?

There's nothing from Acura that competes with 335i, C400, S4, etc. You can see that from the performance and pricing. Those cars are equivalent to a 4.0L trim. Here's how I see it using 3 series as a reference:

320i: boosted 2.0L engine that is equivalent to a NA 2.5L engine
328i: boosted 2.0L engine that is equivalent to a NA 3.2L engine
335i: boosted 3.0L engine that is equivalent to a NA 4.0L engine
M3/M4: boosted 3.0L engine that is equivalent to a NA 5L engine

 

No I did not forget the Regal...it does not drive very sporty and it is very heavy but I do like the turbocharged engine thrust though...

The number of 4G owners that actually do not like the TLX and declared they will not "upgrade" is piling up by the day it seems to me...

Infiniti is only offering the traditional steering rack on the 2015 Q50 as an option, it is not dumping DAS...DAS is the future of steering....you will see in 5 years from now I bet.

It took about one week time for me to get used to it and find the right favorite settings...I love it and many Q50 Sport owners love it.

 

I'm referring to testing sources from magazines....


When I said that you are not going to see a full second shaved from Edmunds I meant on average what Edmunds get for every car they test, compared to the other mags (for example, C&D, MT and R&T)....in that class of cars they do, on average, worse by 0.3, 0.4 sec.

I bet you are not going ever to see 5.5 for the TLX SH-AWD on any mags....I may be wrong bu that is where my money are....from 5.8 at the very best to 6.1

 

My mistake, it was just the TLX that you thought was a good comparison to the Regal.

Yes they are, I believe you are up to a whole 4 or 5 people by now.

Really? It is so widely loved that the manufacturer themselves is ditching a major component, and everything invested into it up to this point for no reason?

The DAS as it sits now is getting revisions. It has been widely criticized, and the hydraulic system wasn't felt to be all that great either, so the G37 is coming to the rescue.

You can rationalize it all you want, but no one would toss the time, energy, and expense designing the systems to the side, plus the expense now to switch to something else if they didn't feel it was going to hurt their bottom line otherwise.

You gave the Q50 a week to "get used to". Who knows how the TLX would have faired if given that much of a chance. I can understand wanting to make a change though.

 

Absolutely it is overall...not very sporty that's all

I said it before and you can read the press release...Infiniti is not ditching DAS, it is making the traditional rack from the G37 (fully hydraulic, so non EPS like the 4G TL, BMW 3 Series, Q50 Base and Premium etc...) available even in the Sport trim..DAS is the future like it or not, it is here to stay....it will be tweaked, tuned and so on.


I gave one week to get used to the DAS, not the Q50..I got used to the Q50 pretty much immediately

 

Not posting, D E F E N D I N G. Post whatever you want about your new car wherever you want to. But if the car were as good as it could/should be, there would be nothing for other people to bash in the first place, and therefore nothing to defend over and over. And you wouldn't care even if it were bashed, because YOU liked it.

See now?

 

The RL, ZDX and 4G TL may be many things, but I doubt they are "beloved" by the majority of people, if anyone. I also seriously doubt anyone will be longing for the ILX or RLX 5 years from now, unless Acura manages to screw up yet again and make the replacements even worse (if that's possible).

 

I've read the releases, and you repeated what I said, DAS isn't going anywhere, but just like they have been doing since the car was first released to reviewers, it will be getting more, and more tweaking to fix is lifeless steering feel which has been widely criticized by reviewers, and consumers. The DAS is not on anyone's "must have" list this year, and after next year, the gap will only be widened.


For the other 70% of Q50s, their original system is being scrapped for a unit out of the G37 after less than a year. Wonder how that will affect the desirability of the first year models down the road.

Right.......you got used to the car right away, it just took a week to get used to how the car steers, and how it feels every time you drive it..... I'm glad you were able to make the distinction.


Seems like you are happy with your choice. Perhaps a bunch of people should show you all the reviews criticizing the Q50's lifeless steering feel (no shortage of those to pick from).
They can also post their own thoughts after a test drive (Mine are a tad too Logitech, instead of sports sedan)

After that, G37 owners (now backed by the manufacturer) could tell you how their cars are sportier, and handled better.

Maybe then you will see the light, and admit your mistake???.

 

Again ridiculous. Non owners should freely come into the forum, and bash, but actual owners should not respond. Responding doesn't make anyone less happy with their choice. Look at saturn above.

4th Accord? I've owned 2, my father had 1, and the coupe seems to be a favorite amongst my younger cousins. Isn't it great how these cars were all so flawless that they were all things to everyone, and no one could find anything about them to criticize, or bash? You must not have spent much time on Accord forums, because they are full of threads like these when a new model is released.

 

Wait, so people actually base a car purchase on 0-60 time?

I'd say this car is decently fast, and similarly to the last gen TL.

So much sturm und drang in this thread over nothing.

Oh noes! The new Hellcat Charger is faster in 0-60 than my CTS-V! My V is worthless!

I do share the request for a TLX-S true sport model. Acura, throw us a bone!

 

It was really very simple and completely easy to understand and comprehend, even with a first-grade reading level: if you're asking why people continue to come here and bash the car, then you can just as easily ask why people continue to come here and defend it. At no time and in no sentence did I ever say directly or indirectly that "Non owners should freely come into the forum, and bash, but actual owners should not respond". In fact, if you had actually read and understood my post it actually said the exact opposite.

Moderator or not, your lack of comprehension is on you, not me, and does not change the fact that my point is a valid one. Ridiculous indeed.

 

You keep saying what is not true...DAS is not I repeat is not being scrapped....stop using the wrong terminology....the hydraulic rack and pinion will be an option...DAS will be still standard equipment on the Q50 Sport.


Yes exactly like that....you cannot appreciate DAS after one or two hours...
By the way is not dramatic as people may say on the internet when you drive it the first time...the response is immediate, better than any rack and pinion setup can even dream to reach...fine tune with your favorite setting for weight and response (I wonder how many potential customers on an around the corner test drive do that instead of saying "Crap this steering sucks") and it actually feels very nice...now I actually I love the fact that rough roads does not filter to the steering wheel...by the way you do have feedback...not the unnecessary one....in filtered digital form.

No car is perfect and every car will attract criticisms, especially new technologies...I should remind you that even the SH-AWD attracted some criticism initially for being too robotic and unnatural.

It is very simple for me...I currently drive a 4G SH-AWD and I had no problem shopping for another Acura again...I voted with my dollars (for my wife ride) last month and I will vote with my hard earned dough next year as well....I wished Acura fixed the few flaws of the 4G and build a distinctive car, a capable sport sedan able to punch above its waistline like the 4G did.....simply, the TLX is not that car for me and increasingly for more 4G drivers.


You may say "ohh it's only 3 or 4 so far".....ok, in this forum is not such small number anyway but I see a trend here.....4G owners valuating a Lexus or an Infiniti for their next car...

The TLX will probably sell well because it will appeal to a different client base...I wish Acura the best in their sales target.

Do not shoot the messenger my friend....

 

^^ Are you talking about me again?? (LOL) J/K

 

This is a simple matter of common sense, and your posts, although articulate, are a good example of a lack thereof. The one claiming if the car was as good as it could/should have been, then there would be nothing for anyone to bash was particularly good, albeit a bit optimistic.

The people criticizing and bashing are going out of their way to do so. The current and future owners have clear motivations and are posting here anyway since this is the forum for the vehicle they purchased. They aren't going out of their way to respond to, or defend anything.

How is it " just as easy" to ask these people with a direct connection to this forum why they are continually posting to defend it, as it is to ask the people with no connection why they are continually going out of their way to criticize, and bash. One group clearly belongs more than the other.

I can continue to explain this to you, but I can't understand it for you regardless of your education level.

 

We keep saying the same thing. DAS is not being scrapped, I agree 100%. The hydraulic system which comprises the larger percentage of sales is being scrapped for the G37 system.

As someone who liked the styling of the pre MMC 4G TL, and finds the Q50 DAS steering sporty ,(I understand the Buick comparisons now) you are clearly in the minority category of buyers.

Every review I have read regarding the DAS was similar in is conclusion (mimicked my own) regarding the system, but in the Q50 it can be explained away, and in the TLX it's just completely on point... We'll just agree to disagree.



The rest of my post was tongue in cheek. I absolutely don't think you made a mistake. You bought what works for you. Just don't understand why you don't see it's the same for the people here.

The 4G ( even though I picked the one my father bought) was not a great seller for Acura. I wouldn't even say it was a good one, so I sincerely hope they did intentionally target a different client base; hopefully a more inclusive one this time. I believe they did, and that it will sell well, but only time will tell.

I was done with Acura, and ready to call it quits for my next sedan; bit the TLX changed my mind.

 

That is what has been reported in the rumor mill through mags....according to the Infiniti sales manager I did talk to (yes take it with a rock of salt, of course) the old G37 fully hydraulic system will be offered as an separate option in certain trims, possibly coupled with a manual transmission option with the MY 2016....so even the standard EPS of the base Q50 will survive....good for Infiniti, however for bringing back something part of the public wants...BMW did stick with its EPS in the new F30 3 Series leaving many fans wanting....


The Q50 DAS has been fine tuned by Sebastian Vettel, Infiniti Director of Performance and 4 times (and current) Formula 1 champion....several videos of his demo of the new system and his involvement in the tuning of it are available for public viewing.....but, you know, I'm pretty sure that you, me and a bunch of car magazine journalists know more about sporty steering...don't we??

DAS press evaluation has not been universally negative either...actually in Europe (they know a thing or two about curvy roads over there) they seem more enthusiastic about it....read for example what Top Gear UK has to say about it.


Another startling piece of differentiation is the steering. There's an option for the world's first entirely by-wire system, which goes by the name Direct Active Steering, or DAS for sort (there is a column, but it's always clutched out unless one of the three steering processors disagrees with the other two, in which case the system failsafes and introduces the column).

The steering setup measures your wheel movement, and decides how much wheel lock to apply depending on speed. Actually, it has three different speed maps from which you can choose. And various weights too.

Advantages? Because the ratio varies with speed, at low speed in town and around hairpins and mini roundabouts, you don't need to flail your arms. But at high speed it isn't twitchy. Also, there's no tramlining or kickback over one-sided bumps (which the 3-series suffers from) because there's no mechanical link. Because there's no need to isolate kickback, there was no need to mount the rack on rubber bushes, so actually the steering is more precise in its initial take-up.

But of course, it can't deliver 'true' road feel. Various sensors can work out when the grip limit is approaching, and at that point it reduced the weight you feel through the steering wheel. It works, up to a point. In fact it's better than most normal column-driven EPAS systems (and Porsche has a similar feedback logic in its EPAS).

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/i...ive-2013-10-11


I do not know your age, but the DAS controversy reminds me when the first sport cars were being fitted with power steering...it was a big taboo, a huge no-no for many....more recently the introduction of EPS, which still has not been universally accepted by some.....every new technology bring controversy.....

 

I've been away from civilization for a week and am back reporting for duty

It still cracks me up that calling out for posting opinion as fact or asking for facts on comments (not opinions) is considered "bad".

I agree with you Prelude, I am not looking for a red light racer and if it takes me 0.23 seconds longer to get to 60 mph, (which I almost never floor it from a dead stop to get to 60+) that does not concern me at all.

However, I do understand that to some people it is how they gauge the bottom line "performance", at least on paper.

Isn't the work "Thrill" really a subjective term? IJS....

 

^^ Yup, you should trade in your "V" ASAP, especially a 6MT wagon....... LOL

 

Welcome back Stew - we missed you. In fact two people bought a Lexus and one person bought a Buick while you were out!

 

Well, thank you sir! The great ship, Carnival Magic, swept me off to enjoy some sunshine and a great amount of libations! A week away from email, phone calls and the internet was quite nice!

Well, I hope the "other car brand buyers" were thoroughly chastised and flogged!

Actually, I truly hope they are enjoying their new rides.

 

I get a thrill every time I drive one of my Japanese cars past a broken down German car. I get a thrill when I hit 140K, the Acura is still going strong, and the repairs are cheap, and so on.


About DAS -- as I understand it that system is the only way Infiniti can add the unique tech it offers.

 

those are horrible performance numbers for a modern V6. i know Acura has fuel economy in mind with the ED V6, but come on, 0-60 in 6sec+? come on now. no wonder most people are opting for 2.4.

 

Yes, 0.3-0.4s difference is already enough to put the TLX in the 5.6-5.7s range, considering that Edmunds time is at 6s flat.

I also don't know if we will ever see the TLX pulling 5.5s for 0-60mph. When you look at the mileage on that TLX from Edmunds though, that car only has 600 miles on it.

When you look at Jeff's comments regarding his time with the TLX, you will see when the car is new, the car would short shift by a few hundred rpms. The car would also become faster as the mileage starts increasing.

It's not impossible that Edmunds tested their TLX a bit too early, and hence the performance isn't quite at its best yet. Usually, C/D test their cars after 1000 miles.

 

When Edmunds does the test with 1 foot rollout it matches the best time of other mags...for example for the TL SH-AWD 6MT they did 0-60 in 5.3 with 1 foot rollout matching the best time made by C&D (5.2)

So in the case of the TLX SH-AWD it will be 6 second.....we will never see 5.5 from a mag.

 

Another ridiculous post.

People bash no matter what. That's why others feel the need to "defend" -- because of the mindless, often unfair, bashing.

Besides, some people actually come here for news and info about the car and sharing experiences between owners. So it's easy to imagine them being quite annoyed by the incessant negativity from the same people who has literally nothing good to say about the brand or the car. Truth be told, criticism is better received if they actually show genuine interest for something by trying to give a balanced point of view.

At the end of the day, who's more crazy? A person who cares about what he likes/owns or the person who's obsessive about what he doesn't own or what he hates?

 

Well said. It's obvious that some are here just to stir the proverbial pot.

Signed,
The Non-TLX owning (yet) Fanboy

 

Vettel is a great driver, and I'm sure he drove it, but its pretty far from an F1 car. I remember reading an article (I don't remember where), but it involved the personal vehicle of a race driver. While he loved sports cars, when it came to his DD, what he picked was a super comfortable, plush, and isolated family sedan. Seems he got his feel of the other extreme on the track, so when off of it, he just wanted to relax.

What works for the UK market doesn't always work well here, and from almost everything I have read here, the reviews were luke warm to negative. My own feelings were it wasn't for me. I'll take the increase feel over a little extra power any day.

New tech always brings controversy, but it also comes with a steep learning curve. I'm all for embracing it, but if I can, I usually wait for version 2, or higher.

 

the much heavier MDX SH-AWD does 0-60 in 6.4 seconds, why the TLX V6 so slow?

 

Like I said, you might be right that we will never see 5.5s in a mag test.

However, we don't know yet.

As I was saying, that test car from Edmunds only has 600 miles on it. Jeff's test had over 5000 miles on it. He also noticed 0-60mph was "only" 5.8s at first. But after a week of aggressive driving, along with proper 93 octane fuel, the car became notably faster. And he confirmed with an instrument test, that shows 0-60mph in 5.5s.

 

Back from a week on the Riviera Maya attending a wedding while getting in some diving & parasailing. Nice to see the 0-60 threads still going strong on a site where its claimed that 0-60 is a meaningless number.

Over the years I have noticed a trend that the slower a car is in the sprint is in direct proportion to the more meaningless the number becomes.

Wonder how bad CR is now going to get beat up as going from relevant to irrelevant by dropping Acura 8 places in it reliability survey.

Think the just posted LA-Times review says it all about the car. “Nice quite comfortable car that does not live up to the image the commercials portray. But for straightforward luxury, it's nice to see Acura rediscover some of its mojo.”

Can’t really see the angst about the car making or not making a meaningless, to the forum base, 5.5 when other cars have moved on to meaningless 4.X for the 0-60 sprint.

 

To be fair, not everyone is saying 0-60mph in meaningless.

I think what most are saying is that 0-60mph is a good indication of straight line performance, and that straight line performance is one factor that people would consider when shopping for a car. The TLX V6 seems to be competitive with the likes of 328i, ATS 2.0T and 3.6, A4 2.0T, and IS350. In other words, all of these cars are nearly as fast as each other. For a lot of folks, that's fast enough. Any faster for some people is irrelevant and meaningless.

 

So far is not even competitive with the 328i, forget about the IS350 or the Q50.

Let's wait for some more tests.....

 

 

Another part of this age old argument is that most buyers don't even ask about the 0-60 times, according to the salesmen I have talked to. They test drive it and decide on the results.

It does matter more to most enthusiasts, no doubt.

 

Is a BMW owner really trying to take shots at Acura's reliability? Do you enjoy the view from your glass house? I believe BMW ended up 3 places further behind. Don't think anyone thinks the gap wont widen as the cars rack up some miles.

You make it seem like the TLX is in the minority with that time. The AWD versions of the IS, Q, A4, and pretty much everything other than the 335, and c400 all seem to be over 5 seconds, and within that range. Similarly equipped however, the latter 2 would probably have price differentials of ~10k vs the TLX. With 6 cylinders, forced induction, and that kind of price increase, I would sure hope they would have significantly better performance.

 

Not competitive? The 328i hits 60 so much faster than 5.5 that it is noncompetitive? Numbers for the AWD Q50 seem to be in that range as well.

I get that you don't like the TLX, ( just don't get why you keep beating us over the head about it) but let's not confuse your opinions/feelings with fact.

 

Never said I do not like it...it is an overall good car but, in my opinion, is not the great value for the money that the 3G and 4G TL were at their time....

So far the only 0-60 time we saw from popular mags is the 6.4 (6.0 with 1 foot rollout) from Edmunds.

If the 6 (or very high 5 at the very best I predict) is confirmed by the other mags, yes the TLX is not very competitive even with the 328i which does it in 5.5 or less.

The 6MT 4G TL, despite its heft and size, did beat and clearly so the E90 328i 6MT.

The 3G TL 6MT did run neck a neck with the 335i of that era, the BMW 330i

I do not have hard data on the Q50 AWD, however, the G37 Coupe AWD automatic (only 20 pounds lighter than the Q50 Sport AWD) did the 0-60 in 5.2 (C&D).
C&D stated clearly that the AWD did not penalize at all the G37 in acceleration...I do not see any reason why this could be different in the Q50.

I tested the TLX V6 FWD and the Q50 feels significantly faster even by the seat of your pants.


6 seconds or so is an excellent time for a sport sedan of that segment....but in 2002.... (Maxima SE, 2G Acura TL, first generation G35, etc..)

 

Tomayto....Tomahto. It is still a bit repetitive.

So TOV's multiple tests don't count?

Edmund's has some of the slowest times out there. If you really wanted to try and keep things on a level playing field, you would use their times for all the vehicles. For the non-AWD IS350, Q50, and 328 are 5.9, 5.5, and 5.4 respectively. Hardly as lopsided as you make it seem.

 

i think it goes to show that the base TLX still leaves something to be desired, while sport/luxury trims should fare better

 

Is not repetitive...I been one of the early most vocal critic of the direction Acura has taken with the TLX and I have been heavily criticized even from people that now have said that will take a pass on this car...and the pieces of the puzzle are finally getting in place more and more....still waiting for more road tests.


No it doesn't...unless TOV is willing to test in the same way the competition....I like to use the same testing source to make a fair comparison.

If the numbers you are reporting for these 3 cars are from Edmunds, the TLX did 6.4 with them,...

C&D did 5.5 on the IS350, 5.2 on the Q50 (4.9 with the factory performance tires package) and I believe 5.5 or 5.6 on the 328i...

I seriously think Honda should quit building automatic transmissions and do what the vast majority of other luxury automakers do....sourcing out the best products from outside suppliers that can have more resources focused at building ATs...because Honda automatic gearboxes are simply not on par with the competition (the manuals instead are the very best).....the 2009-2011 4G TL SH-AWD automatic suffered a seriously embarrassing 1.3 second deficit in the 0-60 run compared to the 6 MT (same testing source, C&D, same tires)...the 2012 redesign with the revised 6 speed shaved only 0.3 sec.

Even the now quite old Nissan 7 speed does not give up anything in acceleration compared to the same car equipped with a manual (if anything, probably it's even a tad faster)...and the ZF and the Aisin 8 speed are simply much better the the Nissan gearbox.

As I said before, do not shoot the messenger....