I CU2

Just wondering - has anyone run this oil in their TSX?

Would it be okay to use with the car?

PyroDave

the car calls for 5W20 or 0W20. why do you want to run 30?

I CU2

I don't know, everyone over here is changing over to it because they can source it cheap from Amazon?

ceb

Sure - use the wrong stuff but save a couple of bucks every 7000 miles.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

This oil is one of the very best on the market, and one of the very few true synthetic oils. 5w-30 is absolutely fine, especially if you push your vehicle. It'll provide better protection for your engine at higher operating temperatures. Your gas mileage will not suffer, either. Don't pay attention to anyone that says it will.

ceb

Redline has no certifications and it is only internet hype that makes it "one of the best."

Please document where Honda/Acura or any other manufacturer has said that it is OK to use the wrong viscosity and why it will provide "better protection."

Now - for all the readers out there - who knows more about your car, some random guy on the internet telling you that the wrong viscosity oil from a boutique manufacture is fine, or the manufacturer who has literally spent millions testing fluids for the engine they designed.

Newer engines use closer tolerances and require different lubrication.

I CU2

I just saw in the manual that Honda recommends different viscosity oils for different operating temperatures and they noted that 5W30 covers the whole range of temperatures?

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

All you have to do is research. BITOG is one good place. 30 weight oil will provide better protection than 20 weight oil, especially if you really push your vehicle and run the engine in elevated temperatures. Heat shears oil, and the 30 weight will act like a 20 weight at heightened operating temperatures. Honda has recommended 20 weight oil, which is SO very thin, to most likely adhere to CAFE standards. 30 weight provides better protection than a 20 weight. It's simple. Do some research on Redline motor oil. It's a true synthetic. It'll provide better protection. This isn't something that's difficult to understand.

ceb

Where should I start? "Bob is the oil guy" is a self proclaimed expert but in reality is a shill for boutique oils. There is very little technically valid information on that site.

Here is the problem with boutique oils (Redline, Royal Poopie, amSOIL etc) - they don't send their oils off for certification and expect us to take their word it that they conform to API and other specs. They have become experts at the media spin, telling us that their oils are "recommended for use in" to give them an aura of legitimacy and to make it sound like they are endorsed by manufacturers.

The problem is that we don't know if these oils are any good - we only have internet hype backed by zero testing. Since we know that our cars will run for several hundred thousand miles using approved fluids, why take a chance on screwing with your car (and risking warranty denial for a lubrication failure) by using untested and un-approved oils.

Now, specifically to the 5w30 fluids. There is no evidence that 5w30 are appropriate for our cars and even the Redline website recommends 5w20

Redline 5W20

• Recommended for Chrysler, Ford WSS-M2C945-A, Acura/Honda, Mazda and Scion
• Thicker oil film at operating temperature than a petroleum 5W30 or 10W30
• Recommended for API SN/SM/SL/SJ/SH/SG/CF and ACEA A5/B5

Bottom line - then is no evidence that you should use 5w30 and no automotive manufacturer has approved boutique oils to comply with warranty requirements.

Boutique oils have a strong internet following but the fact remains is those same people are the same ones that swap cars frequently and never have to deal with the consequences of using unapproved and untested oils. It is also quite impossible for an owner to "tell" the differences in oils.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

I still believe my statement is valid, 100% of the time. 5w30 offers more protection than does 5w20 when your engine operating temperature is elevated, especially if you push your car, due to the shearing effect of oil. Of course the user won't be able to tell the difference, but I don't remember anyone asserting this. The viscosity between 30w weight and 20 weight oils are different, and a 30 weight oil will resist shearing more than a 20 weight. Period. All day, every day. This is true no matter how you slice it.

5w30 offers more protection as opposed to 5w20. This is what I asserted, starting from my original statement.

There are many UOA's on BITOG that can be taken at face value to prove that Redline is a superior oil that can be run at longer intervals than any dino oil. Also, as I mentioned in my original statement, it is one of the very few true synthetic oils.

If you don't agree, don't use it. I'm not arguing with you. If you don't trust in boutique oils, fine. Countless UOA's have backed the superiority of Redline oils.

I ran 5w30 forever in my UA7, no problems. The OP asked specifically about Redline 5w30, and I'm stating that 30 weight does and always will offer more protection than a 20 weight. I never had any problems and no matter how hard I try, I don't foresee the OP encountering any by using Redline 5w30. Ever. I only see benefits.

ceb

Good for you. For the rest of the community - consider this;

The manufacturer recommends 5w20 or 0w20 (depending on year) and even the boutique oil manufacturer "recommends 5w20. Why would you even consider running the risk of a warranty denial when there are perfectly fine oils out there that are readily available, inexpensive and will meet meet the manufacturer's requirements?

Don't even get me started on UOA (used oil analysis) and how that is being used by the boutique oil industry (and shills like BITOG) to show how wonderful an untested and unapproved product is.

Before somebody comes back with "but under the MM Act, the manufacturer has to prove..." you need to consider this - for a warranty denial, the manufacturer merely needs to show that you did not comply with maintenance requirements. They do not need to show that the incorrect fluids caused the failure. When there is a lubrication based failure, the manufacturer will routinely ask "show me that you completed all required oil changes using approved fluids and parts" and you are on the hook to show that you did (or had the services done) the oil changes on time and using the proper stuff.

How can you do that? Simple.

• If servicing was done at an Acura dealer then you would have the invoices and they would also be in the Acura computer
• If servicing was done at an indy, then you should have invoices that detail the type and viscosity of oils used
• If you did it yourself, then you should have your journal showing what you did, when you did it and have receits itemizing the products you used - including the viscosity of oils used.

If you can't prove that - or have receipts showing you used unapproved products - then the manufacturer can deny warranty service for that failure - regardless of how good Bob (BITOG) or any other internet "expert" believes that oil to be - or how good that oil may actually be.

Ask yourself if using a product that (if working as advertised) brings you no advantage over an approved product is worth the risk.

ceb

If we believe your first statement then we shouldn't pay attention to the person who made the second statement. Wait - that's you - so we shouldn't believe you.

You're right, it isn't difficult to understand. The manufacturer AND the boutique oil blender recommend 5W20 (or 0w20 for the 2012s) - you recommend 5W30. Who has more credibility on this particular topic?

That said, barring more incorrect hype, I'm out of this thread.

I CU2

How come Honda changed from 5W30 mid CL9 life to 5W20 and now mid CU2 life they changed to 0W20?

All in the K24?

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

I did say both of those statements, but in different contexts. Taken at face value, the statements seem contradictory. Let me clarify. The way that gas mileage is tested is very difficult to replicate in normal real world driving on a constant basis. Considering the manner that the average driver drives, gas mileage improvement between 30wt and 20 oils will not be noticed. In a controlled environment with constants, it's easier to produce improved gas mileage, even if it is minute.

I stated that 30wt oil provides better protection than 20wt, especially when the engine is run at higher temperatures. How is this incorrect hype? It's not difficult to understand. I also stated that 20wt oil is fine.

Of course there is a "risk" involved in using oil without SAE certification...but I haven't come across failures of Redline oil, nor have I experienced any myself.

BonusBen

There is a gradual push for 0w-10 in the near future. Honda engineers has done alot of test and there is no extra protection by using a thicker than recommended viscosity oil.

If the Honda engineers recommends 0w-20 I would put 0w-20.

Oil is use to not only protect the engine parts from making contact but also to remove heat from the components. A thinner viscosity oil will flow better than a thicker viscosity oil. Oil needs to flow to remove the heat. The greater the oil flow the better it is at removing the heat.

turning japanese

I have three Porsches sitting in the garage right now (well, one belongs to my wife) and I just left the world of Mercedes AMG ownership. One of my P-cars is oil cooled and with a dry sump (and a bit of air cooling thrown in for good measure, lol.) I've been through this internet oil talk blather long enough to make anyone's head spin off. I do UOAs with my cars to monitor engine health and not the oil (I want to know if I have excessive Fe, for example; I already know the oil's capabilities based on mileage/time and my own driving environment. And after a track day, I'll change the oil anyway.)

AMG have changed their oil specs for the M156 motor once already. They do so based on their data which is real in-house data and real field data, and not some boutique oil marketing 'data.'

I refuse to get involved anymore with oil talk (and especially with a little IL 4 cylinder motor that's relatively indestructible.) The oil stuff been discussed to death and is in the stage where it just goes around in circles. If you're that concerned/interested then take on a career as a petroleum engineer or something. Oil talk is for engine builders and owners of flat tappet design motors and older motors that need coddling. UOAs are for high performance 'hand grenade' type of motors and/or if you're on the track or doing rallies in the desert.

In the meantime, CEB knows what he's talking about. Do what the manufacturer tells you to do. Daimler AG puts out an approved (229.5 and 229.51) oil list that no owner in their right mind would deviate from. They are so specific that they publish a huge document called MB BeVo (MB specifications for operating fluids.)

Do what CEB says and follow the manufacturer's instructions. You're simply wasting money and time doing anything else. And risking your warranty. If you really want to waste time, then log on to the BITOG forums and have fun. Or buy a bridge in Brooklyn from the guy selling it on the interwebs.

Robert4

I'm with ceb and turning japanese here. I've been in the tire/service bizz over 30 years now. Actual lubrication caused failure of an engine is almost unheard of in the last few decades, unless you count low/no oil from owner neglect or ignorance. Timing belt failures or severe over-heating still take out their share of otherwise good engines.

I believe a car company that designs, tests, manufactures and then warranties an engine is making good fluid recommendations.

ceb

Now that this is resolved, I'd like to recommend my all time favorite oil. It works in all cars and is far superior to the average boutique oil.

Like all good synthetics, this starts with a PAO base with a minor modification as it uses a Kung PAO chicken base from my local take-away. For our Canadian friends I've added a splash of maple syrup. The maple syrup increases (or is it "decreases?") flow rate in low temps but speeds up quite nicely when heated.

But wait! This oil is specifically reformulated for specific cars. When used in BMW, you'll want to add a splash of Paulaner. Audis require the substitution of Herrnbräu. Volkswagen requires a Kronbacher blend unless it was built in Mexico, in which case it requires Corona.

Now, that I am recommending it for Japanese cars as well, I'd suggest the addition of a nice Suntory Premium Malt. For vehicles assembled in the US - like the TL - I'd suggest the addition of the local swill.

If you have any left over after your oil change, you can always use it to marinade your steaks for your next grilling - no other boutique oil can say that

ed_423

PyroDave

will that void my fried rice warranty? i have the chicken mod installed

ceb

Nope. Your fried rice warranty is fine. I recommend that Kung Pao blend so it must be good.

pickler

is it a light/medium/dark maple syrup? i noticed light syrups flow better from the fridge. i like my syrup cold

ceb

PyroDave

nom nom nom now im frigging hungry especially cause i just ran. ceb, i think this is your first intentional thread derail, i am proud

ceb

It isn't a thread derail. My maple syrup blend is just as recommended and has the same certifications as Redline, Royal Pimple or amSOIL. The fact that my blend can do double duty as a steak marinade (and is vegan to boot) puts it head and shoulders above the other boutique oils.

The problem with boutique oils is that we don't know if they meet any specifications and problems will be expensive and far down the road.

I've often asked people why they "love" a particular oil and there never is a rational answer because consumers cannot tell the difference between oils.

CU2011

I'd only use Honda/Acura oil my cu2

turning japanese

Because it's really all about being cool and different. And that they think they're one up on everybody else by using something some people have never heard of. It's like that with a lot of consumer goods. What Baudrillard called the "sign value of an object" (an object that has no functional difference over a comparable object yet has taken on a significance of prestige value.)

And nobody is ever going to experience an oil formula ingredient related failure in their lifetime with their everyday street car. It just isn't going to happen and nor will a boutique oil extend motor life (with the exception of your Kung PAO formula. )

fwiw, Amsoil is well-known as a multi-level marketing (pyramid marketing) company first (like Amway), and an oil distributor second. Vitamins, detergents, motor oil. It's the same MLM marketing scheme. That's why you see them inundating the internet with all sorts of 'infomercials' about oil (and of course, how much 'better' Amsoil is over the big name oil products.) The independent sellers (or 'dealers' as Amsoil calls them) all need to promote themselves to sell the product and sign up new 'dealers.'

Vcrop

If you're trying to choose a viscosity it will really be determined by the W. 5w, 10w etc. Try sticking with the w the manufacture set as the recommended and tune your heat down by going up from 20-30-40 etc. If you feel a high compression, release from your engine then go up a few grades 30-40-50 etc. If you find a good idle(5w to 10w) but high compression (20) go up on heat regulation. Beware of metallic reside for better idles. (5w to 10w).

t3hhcaptain

Wait, I think the joke stopped in 2012 though?