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Questions about brakes

 
Old 05-21-2019, 03:26 PM
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Questions about brakes

Need to replace my Front brake pads pretty soon. I wanted to do it myself to save some money. Currently, if I go down a big hill or something, the brakes will vibrate. So I want to change the rotors as wll. My question are:
1) Does it matter if you have different rotor/pads in the front versus the back?
2) Any recommendation on rotor/ ceramic pad (keep brake dust down) combo that will help with the vibration?
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:36 PM
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Answers:
  1. No.
  2. Akebono pads and Centric rotors are a pretty common combination.

The above said, there are so very many options for pads and rotors it is almost easier for everybody concerned if you come up with a combination and then ask for feedback.
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:42 PM
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Raybestos has coated rotors for a reasonable cost on rockauto. Not a bad way to go.

Any low dust (ceramic) pad will also be prone to causing the vibrations you're getting. If you care about dust, the factory pad will be your best bet. I think Akebono makes the factory pads now? The aftermarket Akebonos may or may not be up to Acura spec.

To try and prevent these vibrations while using low dust pads:
bed the pads in right after you install them
don't clamp the brakes after a hard stop
make sure your rear brakes are working well (lube the pad ears and caliper slides properly).
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
Answers:
  1. No.
  2. Akebono pads and Centric rotors are a pretty common combination.

The above said, there are so very many options for pads and rotors it is almost easier for everybody concerned if you come up with a combination and then ask for feedback.
Thanks for the recommendation! I haven't done too much work on cars so I have no idea what combos would have been good. I'll look into this combo tho.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by BROlando View Post
Raybestos has coated rotors for a reasonable cost on rockauto. Not a bad way to go.

Any low dust (ceramic) pad will also be prone to causing the vibrations you're getting. If you care about dust, the factory pad will be your best bet. I think Akebono makes the factory pads now? The aftermarket Akebonos may or may not be up to Acura spec.
I have stock pads on the front currently. I think it could be vibrating due to the rotor being previously resurfaced. But that's just my speculation.


Originally Posted by BROlando View Post
To try and prevent these vibrations while using low dust pads:
bed the pads in right after you install them
don't clamp the brakes after a hard stop
make sure your rear brakes are working well (lube the pad ears and caliper slides properly).
What does it mean to "bed the pads" ? I don't work too much on cars.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:41 AM
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Bedding the pads is the process of coating the rotors in a thin layer of brake pad material. It's a critical step in making sure the pads and rotors grip well and helps avoid the pulsating/vibration you're getting due to uneven pad material distribution on the rotor.

The process is similar for most brake pad and rotor manufacturers but you'll want to look up the specific procedure for the new rotors you get. Each one can be slightly different. Some have you do several high speed stops followed by a cool down period. Others just have you go easy on the brakes for the first few hundred miles.

BROlando is right about ceramic pads. They're the standard for most vehicles now-a-days because they're quiet and have low dust. I've had pretty bad luck with them in terms of pulsating and vibrations though. I've actually gone to a "lower grade" semi-metallic pad which squeals occasionally and produces more dust but hasn't cured the vibration issue. It's likely because they're harder on rotors but also tends to grind them down a bit. I don't pretend to understand all the technicalities behind it but all I know is that it's been working for me.
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:26 AM
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^correct.

Semi metallic pads work on abrasion and are less likely to leave deposits on the rotor. The downside to them is dust and relatively quick wear. Some do make noise...but most street going versions are quiet. The up-side is WAY better brake response, brake feel, and performance than ceramic pads.

Brake pulsations usually happen due to the pad smearing or leaving an uneven amount of material on the rotor surface. When rotors are "warped", its not really the ROTOR itself in almost every case. Its the uneven pad transfer. Ceramic pads are prone to this because they are bad at expelling heat. They also rely on a transfer film to create a chemical bond that induces friction.

If you actually did warp a rotor...it was almost for sure from some mechanical issue - improperly torquing the lug nuts, a bent hub, or some other issue that caused the rotor to deform.

As a middle ground....I've tried Raybestos EHT hybrid pads. They're better than ceramics in terms of bite and resistance to fade and resistance to brake pulsation. They're also quiet and long lasting. BUT...they're almost as dusty as a semi-metallic is.

I still always prefer semi metallic pads. Once you try them, its hard to go back.

Last edited by BROlando; 05-22-2019 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BROlando View Post
^correct.

Semi metallic pads work on abrasion and are less likely to leave deposits on the rotor.

Brake pulsations usually happen due to the pad smearing or leaving an uneven amount of material on the rotor surface. When rotors are "warped", its not really the ROTOR itself in almost every case. Its the uneven pad transfer.

If you actually did warp a rotor...it was almost for sure from some mechanical issue - improperly torquing the lug nuts, a bent hub, or some other issue that caused the rotor to deform.
There is a third rotor related cause for pulsing; hot spots. A portion of the rotor can get retempered due to excess heat, and when this happens, pads can bite with a different level of friction on various portions of the disc.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:44 AM
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I have to agree that the semi-metallics outperform the ceramics. I'm very happy with them so far. The dust isn't too noticeable since my wheels are a matte grey and the noise hasn't been bad at all.

Right now all I have on are the cheapest pad that Autozone offers - $27 for the four front pads. They're working great after about 3K miles and that's on a set of rotors that was previously pulsating with some Akebono ceramics. The SM's were pulsing just as much (likely due to the rotor) but after the bed in procedure it all but went away and hasn't come back.

I see why ceramics are the new standard. Low dust and noise are what most people want. And most people don't need a lot of braking performance. But I think I'm sticking with the SM's for now. I'd rather have a bit of dust and noise in exchange for better performance.

I'm tempted to give EBC YellowStuff a try. So far, these are great though so I have no reason to switch up. Plus, those EBC's are about $100 for a set.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:49 AM
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^Stoptech Sport (309 part number) are a (IMO) better alternative to EBC yellow. And they're way cheaper.

They're both NAO pads. So...not the same bite as semi-metallic. But they both are high temp pads, capable of ~1200F operation. I can't imagine needing fade resistance like that on the street.

I'd rather have cold bite, which is useful on the street.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BROlando View Post
^Stoptech Sport (309 part number) are a (IMO) better alternative to EBC yellow. And they're way cheaper.

They're both NAO pads. So...not the same bite as semi-metallic. But they both are high temp pads, capable of ~1200F operation. I can't imagine needing fade resistance like that on the street.

I'd rather have cold bite, which is useful on the street.
"Cold Bite", after suffering through the lack-thereof with numerous ceramic pads, I am an advocate for pads which provide good initial bite. In one scenario, I had just gone through a deep layer of slushy ice which instantly dropped the temperature of my rotors to a degree or two either side of freezing; then a car pulled out in front of me without looking; had my brakes been able to bite, I would easily have been able to stop in time; I didn't, not even close. Fortunately for me the officer ticketed the other driver for failure to yield right of way, unfortunately the nose of my car was pretty screwed up.
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Old 05-22-2019, 03:45 PM
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Thanks guys for the input! I'm enjoying reading the discussion and learning more. So this combo would work good?

Rotor:
https://www.carid.com/2009-acura-tsx...-20316166.html

Pad:
https://www.carid.com/2009-acura-tsx...181523123.html

or maybe this pad?
https://www.carid.com/bosch/quietcas...60&url=1861765
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Old 05-22-2019, 03:53 PM
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on the rotors.

Pads - heck, I'm still trying to figure that out. But based on my recent experience, I'd go with semi-metallic.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:25 PM
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Sure, those will work just fine.

Tip: check on rockauto
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:53 AM
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Also a tip:
Looks like Advance Auto's "silver" line for the front axle is semi metallic. They're $21 after you use a 25% discount code.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BROlando View Post
Sure, those will work just fine.

Tip: check on rockauto
Thanks! I'll be sure to check it out and advanced auto too.

One last question...Since I haven't done too much car stuff, will using the jack that comes in the spare tire kit be ok (ie safe)?. Would I need any jackstands or anything else?
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mike0mike View Post
Thanks! I'll be sure to check it out and advanced auto too.

One last question...Since I haven't done too much car stuff, will using the jack that comes in the spare tire kit be ok (ie safe)?. Would I need any jackstands or anything else?

You'll want jackstands.

I would buy a hydraulic jack as well. The stock scissors jack is placed on the same spot you need to put jackstands on.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BROlando View Post
You'll want jackstands.

I would buy a hydraulic jack as well. The stock scissors jack is placed on the same spot you need to put jackstands on.
Shoot. Was hoping to not have to buy more tools. Any recommendations on a budget friendly hyraulic jack? I would probably need a heavy duty type one since I need to do my MDX brakes as well.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:08 PM
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Also, if the scissor jack spot is where you should put jackstands....Where is the proper position for placing the hydraulic jack for lifting?
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Old 05-23-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mike0mike View Post
Also, if the scissor jack spot is where you should put jackstands....Where is the proper position for placing the hydraulic jack for lifting?

I use the front and rear central points.

Front on the subframe. Rear on the tie down hook.

Harbor freight is probably the place for a jack and stands. Their low profile jacks for $100-130 are legendary.
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