kretrop

Hey gang.

Got a question. I've had my car for 2 months and a little under 3K miles now (2012 SE 6sp), bought new. Today, I noticed a chime real quick when I went around a couple of sharp turns (pulling into work parking lot, driveway, etc), but didn't see anything on the screen or dash to indicate what it was, so I thought it might be the podcast I was listening to... until I got home and pulled into my driveway. As I was turning into my driveway, I got the ding, and saw the "low oil" message pop up and shut off as soon as I was done turning.

So, I figure the oil is just low enough to be triggering that sensor on sharp turns, and it was shutting off so fast that I never saw anything pop up earlier. The car has never done this before and, according to the oil life meter, is at 80% remaining. Checking the dipstick after I got home, however, shows the oil is indeed very low.

I'll call the service department in the morning, but at this point, there are 3 possibilities.
1. It's leaking oil.
2. It was never full.
3. It's consuming oil.

1 Can be ruled right out. No evidence of leaking oil under the car, in my driveway, etc. 2 I seriously doubt. These things are automatically filled when assembled, and should be checked and rechecked during PDI and delivery (though I never checked it myself). That leaves 3. And, if it's 3, I'm going to be seriously pissed. This is a brand new car. There's no way that this should consume any oil, let alone enough to warrant a low oil warning in less than 3K miles of highway driving. I rarely even go above 5K. This car is replacing a 2004 Mazda3 that I've had since new, and it's got almost 170K on it, and doesn't burn 1 drop of oil. I am not hard on my cars.

I read something about a TSB or recall out there for oil consumption on the MT cars, but that looks to have been for the 09-11 models; I can't find anything saying this applies to 2012 models. In fact, I can't seem to find anything (on this site) for issues with 2012 cars at all.

So, anyone got any ideas or similar experiences with a 2012 MT sucking up oil? Like I said, I'll call the dealer first thing in the morning, but I'm pretty annoyed right now. Sucking up enough oil to trigger the low oil warning in such low mileage in a brand new car is completely unacceptable to me.

kretrop

Correction: mileage is 3142 (put here for my own reference).

nj2pa2nc

suggestion: instead of calling, just go to the dealer.

ceb

I'm betting on number 2. I bought a new Audi in Maine. About 300 miles from the dealership the low oil light came on. I was a bit peeved but ended up owning the car for 100k miles and it never burned a drop of oil.

Of course 3 is possible as well but less likely.

LaCostaRacer

Take it to the dealer. Either issue is dealer related. If it was underfilled at the factory, the dealer should have caught this via the 'dealer preparation' service you get charged for.

Slade037

I have the same issue. Around 4k (3 months after purchase) I kept getting low oil light when I stopped suddenly or swerved really hard. I took it to the dealer. They topped her off and told me to come back if it happens again.

3 months after that (8.5k) the light comes back. It happens to be time for A1 service so I bring it back to the dealer. They are performing an "oil consumption test." I am on day 2 of my loaner and haven't heard from them yet. I will call them tomorrow and update you.

Also, I park in the same spot in my parking garage and never saw any leaks.

turning japanese

I don't know much about Honda motors (this is my first one) but my last new car consumed several quarts of oil until around 10k miles (a 6.2 liter V8.) After that it seemed to have broken in and seated properly. From around 11k miles up until I sold it (at 30k miles) it burned no oil between OCIs and never needed topping off, etc.. My own experience is that new motors can use oil in the beginning and then normally taper off. btw, Porsches are notorious for this.

MrOtocinclus

I tend to think it's number 2. In my own experience, each item on the PDI checklist was marked off, but I remember seeing a couple of things that weren't done. Off the top of my head, the plastic covering the navi LCD, trunk lid adjustment, and the blue plastic covering the door sills. I've also had the oil light come on during sharp, sharp turns (like waiting until the last second to do a left turn), but dipstick showed normal level afterwards. Lastly, was the engine hot/warm when you checked the oil after getting home? If it was just a few minutes after driving, then the oil might not have had a chance to drip back down.

Slade037

So this an email I got from my Service Advisor:

When we contacted acura, they informed us that the oil consumption test needs to be performed again. The 1000 miles that is needed to pass before the car is re-inspected is a specific distance that allows the factory technical resource to more precisely determine the source of the concern. It is plain to see the engine is consuming oil. But, without that specific mileage passing, we dont have the exact information to perform the diagnostic that acura requires. I am going to have to ask you to return and take your car and return no more than 1000 miles from now. It is extremely important to see you at that time so we can do what is necessary to fix the tsx. You have my contact info. Email me as soon as you hit that mileage and we can do the loaner car thing and straighten the tsx out.

So I guess 1000 miles later I'll get more info.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

what the heck, why didnt you just fill up the oil and then kept a constant eye on the level?

that way you would have known your answer and you dont even have to take it to the dealer.....

LMAO at them keeping the car for an extended period of time.

nj2pa2nc

By going to the dealer they will have it on record.

kretrop

Exactly. That, and band aids shouldn't have to be applied to a brand new car.

Regarding it being underfilled from the factory: it would've done this much sooner if that were the case, not 2 months into ownership. And, it would've done it around some higher speed off ramps and whatnot; this is happening at a very, very low speed turn (into driveways and parking lots from the street). There would've been several more indicators had that been the case.

Slade, thanks for checking back. It's obvious that the car is consuming oil. Anyone know what the difference is between the low and high dots on the dip stick? .5 qt? 1qt? By any chance, were you able to discuss the previous TSB/recall (I forget which it is) with your dealer? That applied to manual transmission cars...

I have an appointment for Thursday morning. I'd prefer they top this up as opposed to changing it, so I know how much oil it was low. They should also have records from when they did the PDI, and that should verify that the oil level was where it was supposed to be. And this isn't something that happened shortly after I picked the car up, like the Audi example; this is 2 months and 3K miles later. I could understand if I got home after my first 130 mile round trip commute to work, and the light came on; then I could accept #2. Given the circumstances, however, I cannot.

Not to sound like a jerk, but comparing an inline 4cyl Honda to a 6cyl boxer Porsche is completely off base. Boxers, by nature, use a bit of oil; that's why a current Porsche 6cyl (997 as an example) has 9 quarts of oil vs. our 5.1, and you'll find many owners driving around with an extra quart or two in the car at all times.

This is my fourth brand new car in the last 10 years, and the only one to ever consume oil. That includes a Mazda Miata that I ripped apart and put an aftermarket turbo kit on (which gets plumbed into the oil system) and also my own 6.2L V8 (2008 Corvette), which is modified to put down 411 RWHP. While I treat my cars with mechanical empathy, the Vette does get driven as intended at times. It consumes no oil.

As I was typing this, I just got a call from my dealer's service dept. Long story short, he states that Acura just released a bulletin last week addressing this issue (which is limited to the MT cars). It requires an oil consumption test, as Slade said, and also identifies replacing pistons/piston rings as the solution. I didn't know the engines were different mechanically from the auto variants but, apparently, they are in that regard; the engines are exhibiting some blow by, and that's how the consumption is happening. They also verified that oil level is checked to be full at every PDI, so there's no way it can be an underfill issue.

So, they'll top off, see how low I was, do a change, then have me do the 1K mile consumption test and see how fast it's burning up oil. I drive the car pretty lightly, and do mostly highway driving (my average is 30.01 since I've had the car, with a high of 30.87, and a low of 29.11... this is based off of fills, not the computer readout, which generally reads .8-1.5mpg higher than actual observed. I keep detailed records.), so you can see I'm not driving it hard since I'm getting higher than the rated fuel economy. Chances are that someone who does more city/stop and go driving than I do will have even higher consumption of oil. They mentioned they have a car coming in next week for the piston ring replacement, and they've seen it before. The guy was simply returning a voicemail and didn't have my info in front of him, and when I said I just wanted to touch base and make sure they knew I wasn't coming in for a standard oil change but rather because the car was telling me it was low on oil already, the first thing he asked was "Is it a 4cyl manual?".

So, obviously, this is a real problem. There's no excuse for a modern inline engine to burn up this much oil when it's new and have it be "normal". I'll try to get more info on the TSB when I'm there on Thurs. and post it here for reference sake. I'll also keep updates here, as it looks like I'll most likely end up getting new pistons/piston rings in the car in the near future, too. Slade, please keep us posted on whether your dealer comes to the same conclusion (it sounds like they already have).

I'm not thrilled about having to do this in a new car but, if it fixes the problem, so be it. Maybe I'll just rev the shit out of the thing during the consumption test so they can see for sure that it's using oil. Hell, even my 10 year old Honda CBR600F4i (which is also an inline 4cyl) doesn't burn any oil, and that thing gets revved up to 12-14K when it's used.

I do appreciate the replies, and sorry if any of this came across as "short" but, as you can imagine, I'm not exactly thrilled with the news that my brand new engine has to be ripped apart. Can't say Honda has earned a long term customer from this; I thought they were supposed to be reliable...

turning japanese

Um, which is why I prefaced my post with: "I don't know much about Honda motors (this is my first one)..." and then simply said: "My own experience is that new motors can use oil in the beginning and then normally taper off." And that a Porsche is "notorious" for using oil during the break-in period.

(fwiw, I have currently have three P-cars with boxer motors and one is a dry sump. The 993 is the only one that uses any oil between OCIs since break-in on the other wet sump versions.)

MrV8888

Kretrop,

Thanks for sharing this information. Please keep us posted. I also have a 2012 SE 6MT so I am watching this with interest.

ceb

When somebody says "not to sound like a jerk" means that he knows he is a jerk - especially when people are trying to help said jerk.

I'm not sure why he bothered asking since he obviously knows everything better. It is also obvious that it can't be low oil from the factory because the tech said they do everything on the PDI list

LaCostaRacer

I guess until the 1000 mile test results come in, it could be a combination of things. Boy it sure sounds like there is already a smoking gun on the piston ring issue.

It's a little hard for me to buy that it's only with manual transmission cars based on engine design only. It is true that manual transmission cars are more prone to testing extended redline conditions than automatics. My guess is there is something going on with breaking in the pistons and rings that winding out the motor might aggravate.

Perhaps a mechanic can post what changed with the 2nd gen TSX engine that could cause this type of problem?

EzeE1o

hmm after reading this thread, i went and checked my oil. i have 4,825 miles and it read roughly 1/4 a qt below the top dot (capacity between dots is 1 qt). looks like i will monitor if it burns more. oil life meter says its at 50%.

on my 2002 rsx-s, it burned 1qt/1000 miles, i would say after about 50k miles. my wifes 2005 rsx-s never burned oil.

ceb

Less than a half quart between oil changes isn't a big deal at all.

cyberbro

lol hahhaha
thats a good one, get something the dealer charges for but you can't see. lol

kretrop

Thanks for answering how much the difference between the dots is. Sounds like you're ok for now; by contrast, mine is way below the bottom dot. Like I said, I'm showing 80% remaining, too, so that's a ton more consumption than you see. Hope yours stays good. Out of curiousity, I wonder if build dates would help identify anything, or if the cars that have the issue are random? What kind of driving do you generally do? I'm generally at lower RPM due to highway driving, and rarely go over 5 k in normal commuting.

I also have to wonder if this will be much larger in scope, since the drivetrain is shared by the Civic Si and the ILX.

Again, apologies if anything sounded overbearing in my previous posts. Not my intent. I'm not trying to sound like I know everything; I'm just throwing out my logic behind ruling things out. I'm an engineer by trade, and this is just something we do as second nature to support what we do and don't agree with.

I'll keep this updated with additional findings as they happen so it can serve as a reference.

Thanks again, everyone.

EzeE1o

I'd say I do about 60city, 40hwy. I don't redline, I shift I think around 4k?
And I'm positive that the crankcase was full when I bought the car because I have checked it in the past

kretrop

According to the service manager I spoke with, the difference is that the piston rings in the manual cars are allowing for a little more "wiggle room", which is leading to oil blow by. That's not a RPM dependent thing, though you'll certainly get a little more blow by at higher revs. Like I said, though, I'm rarely above 5k in my driving, and my car spends the majority of its time in 6th at 70-80 mph, which equates to sustained low to mid 3k engine speeds, and I'm obviously seeing the issue. So, it's not a result of winding out the motor, though doing so will likely show you the symptoms sooner; rather, it seems to be a design flaw.

kretrop

Sounds like you have similar shifting habits, though much more city driving. Seems like you're ok at this time, but definitely keep an eye on it.

ceb

The only real way to tell is with an oil consumption test as you really don't know how much oil you started with.

Quite frankly, the explanation of "more slop" in MT engines makes little logical sense as those internal bits all have the same part numbers.

I've also not been able to find evidence of a new TSB regarding oil consumption in 2012's. I fear he may be talking about the '09 bulletin.

You always must remember that dealerships think that customers know nothing about cars and are quite ready to make up the most outrageous things to explain a problem.

You may have a problem or this may be much ado about nothing. We won't know until the test in complete - luckily you can monitor that yourself.

The 'normally accepted industry standard (or should I say excuse) is a quart per 1000 miles is OK, but none of the cars I've owned from new ever consumed more than a quarter between oil changes.

kretrop

I thought the same thing regarding the internal parts. I'm going to try to get more info on that tomorrow.

Regarding the earlier TSB, that's the one about the software flash? Because they made no mention to me of a software flash. Is there a link to that one somewhere? They also mentioned doing the rings on other cars, and that they don't schedule more than one of these per week due to what's involved; assuming they're really doing this procedure on cars, there's no way they'd get paid by Acura to do something of this scope under warranty if it weren't approved.

I know dealerships generally talk down to people and, usually, that's somewhat warranted since people know little about the mechanics of what's going on in their car. However, it's also been my experience that they can tell someone who knows their stuff from someone who doesn't, and they adjust their level of explanation accordingly. It's easy to see within a minute of talking to me that I'm quite familiar with cars and engines. As much as I distrust dealer service shops (it's why I do all my own work), I never got the feeling that these guys were feeding me a line.

You're right though: the consumption test is the only way to know for sure, and that starts tomorrow.

benben01

That's shame your new car is consuming oil. My 2011 6spd Tech has 23K on it now and consumes no oil. Ceb would cringe but I dumped the oil in my car when it hit 1,000 mile mark new and used various viscosities of Castrol Syntec depending on the seasonality (0-20w. 0-30w). I also don't wait for the maintenance light to come on to change the oil. I normally change it between 5,000-7,000 depending on my driving habits. The only car I have now that consumes oil is my 2011 Mazda RX-8. The rotary engine in that car is designed to consume oil @ a rate of 1/2-1qt per 1,000 miles.

gsvette

4900 miles on my 2012 SE 6-spd. I do not go easy on any of my cars during break in period. I do vary RPMs when I drive, but I am not afraid to hit the 7000RPM mark on the TSX. If it is going to break let it do it under warranty.
I have added 1 quart of oil at 4900 miles, and my oil life shows 30% left.
The oil is like water (0W20), it is no wonder the manual cars use more oil than an automatic.
In the manual 6-spd we accelerate then decelerate the oil gets by the rings and out the exhaust burnt by the cats (no smoke shows out the tail pipes after the cats burn it up).
The automatic has a torque converter, so when you accelerate and decelerate there is more slippage and not as much of a direct coupling to the differential, hence less oil by the rings.
I am not happy about the oil consumption but my light has never come on.
I tend to check my oil at every other gas fill up (just a precaution as I do drive my vehicles rather aggressively).

kretrop your car does seem to be using a lot of oil compared to mine especially if your not driving hard (high revs).
Good Luck and let us know what the dealership finds.

stan_t

I also drive a 2012 with a 6MT, got it a few weeks ago and it has close to 2K on it now. I came from a turbocharges Subaru and burning oil was very common in that community, though my car didn't have this as a major problem. I also bought that car new and put 81K on it before selling it. It was modified/tuned and I wasn't easy on it.

I was very conscious of oil level when I took delivery of the TSX. These new engines are built with low tension rings and call for 0w20, which just like the poster above said, is as thin as water when hot. I check the oil level regularly and have not noticed it go down yet. I'll probably change the oil around 3K.

I'm of the opinion that oil consumption issues may be related to how the rings are broken in when the engine is brand new. I do not baby my brand new vehicles and make sure to break in the rings as soon as possible by accelerating/decelerating with good amount of load on the engine. I'm not one to keep the new engine under 4K, it's worked well for me in the past so I stick with it.

Will be watching this thread very closely, thank you for the information. As far as rings on the manual cars.. it's possible that the ring gap is set a bit larger. Larger ring gap won't necessarily lead to blow-by -- ring tension doesn't seal against the cylinder wall, pressure passing under the rings does. Rings are staggered and the gaps have very little chance of being aligned in the same spot, so there should still be plenty of seal. Now, if the cylinder walls were glazed, that could cause blow-by.

Stan

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

teehee

ceb

And you still don't think they are feeding you a line?

In order to "schedule only one a week" would mean that they have a problem of epic proportions. The internet would be screaming about faulty rings and we'd have every second post here pointing to the TSB.

Given that about 5% of cars sold have a manual transmission, your single dealership would have had to have sold most of them in order to be inundated with ring problems.

Horsemanure!

That isn't to say that you and others may not have an issue but your dealership is staffed by idiots purporting to be experts.

Wait for the analysis and go from there.

stan_t

The fact that they even mentioned the rings suggests they know what the problem could be. I am willing to bet it is due to rings not sealing well and oil being so thin. It is a common "issue" with alot of new cars nowadays, thing to wonder about is it's an issue for some while it isn't an issue for others. Since our cars are built in same place, by same people, and have same oil in them, if we see difference in oil consumptions we can assume it's due to driving style and conditions.

Most posts I've seen with people complaining about high oil usage on a new engine also include statements of not pushing the car hard and keeping it under 4K during break-in. This is simply an observation, mostly from Subarus and other makes. I have my own opinions, but they are just that, I'm just mentioning trends I see on forums.

Stan

kretrop

Update.

So, we're not even doing the consumption test. My car took 3 quarts of oil to bring the level back to where it should be. The dealership deemed that completely unacceptable outright, and went ahead and ordered the new pistons and rings for me.

I got some more information on the issue, too. Apparently, it's not limited to manual cars, but it's a lot more prevalent on them because they're generally hitting higher and more sustained RPMs than their auto counterparts. The dealer did say they've seen this on auto cars and, of those, they're generally the ones where the drivers use the paddle shifters most of the time and tend to hit and hold higher revs. Makes sense.

So, what the issue is is that, as someone else stated, the piston rings have a tolerance range which, in this case, is a gap. Cars that fall into the wider end of that range, even though still in spec, are prone to higher levels of consumption. Cars with all of their pistons/rings in that higher gap will see even more. MT cars with all of their rings in that wider gap will see the most, due to the nature of how they're driven.

There are two types of pistons used in the car, "A" and "B". The engine is marked with which ones are in the car. I'm not sure what the technical differences are between the two, but a car can be any combination of As and Bs. Mine happens to be all Bs, so they ordered 4 new B piston heads and rings. From what I gathered, the replacement parts aren't different or updated, but the difference is that, when they're replaced, the mechanics can correctly set the gaps at the tightest tolerance. The pistons and rings need to be replaced together so that everything seats correctly. They showed me the TSB (sorry, but I wasn't able to take a copy) as well as the instructions on identifying the pistons. They had this handy because of another car coming in to have the same thing done (the one I mentioned previously). They have done this procedure on a few cars, so they're familiar with it. To be clear, I never said they're doing one car every week; I said they only like to schedule one per week, meaning one car doing this in any given week, due to the scope of the work involved. This is something they want to dedicate one tech to at a time, so they make sure it's scheduled in advance so the tech can concentrate on just this job, rather than having to work on whatever comes through the door, jump back to this, work on something else, etc. When they have one of these, they schedule only one in any given week. Mine will likely be the last week in July or first week in August, depending on when they get the parts and my schedule.

I'll keep this updated with any additional info as it happens. I strongly encourage anyone that notices their car is consuming oil to schedule an appointment with your dealer and let them add it, so they have a record, rather than just add it yourself. My suspicion is that the issue is more widespread, but people are inadvertently masking it by just adding oil and thinking it's normal. Consumption levels will differ depending on each ring's tolerance and how the car is driven.

Ceb: in this thread, you've derided me for using deductive reasoning and logic to come to the conclusion that my car has an oil consumption problem (which my dealer has now confirmed), you've accused me of acting "like I know everything" for using such logic and trying to rule out other possibilities, you've called me a jerk for pointing out that a completely different engine type is not a valid comparison for judging what is "normal" when it comes to oil consumption on this engine, you've accused my dealer of lying to me and me of falling for it, and you've also accused my dealer of being staffed by a bunch of idiots. Unless you actually have anything relevant, factual, pertinent, or any first hand experience with this problem to add to this discussion, I'll kindly ask that you take your negativity and senseless drivel elsewhere and go crap in someone else's thread. I'd like to reserve this one for dealing with what is a very real problem for me, keep everyone advised of what steps are being taken to (hopefully) resolve it, and hopefully provide a helpful reference for anyone else who may be experiencing the same thing. Thanks.

kretrop

I don't know; I don't really buy into "engine break in" period theories at all. Even the guys at the Corvette plant told me when I picked up my car there that break in is a complete myth these days and, by the time you get in your car for the first time, things are already seated and broken in. Engines are test fired at the assembly plants, then fired and run again when the full car is assembled, run throughout the rev range to verify operation, etc. Break in, according to them, is more for all the auxiliary parts, like the transmission, axles, gears, etc. to mesh together; an engine can be run while stationary, but that stuff can't.

When I get a new car, I tend to drive it the way I'd normally drive it. For some cars, that's a little harder, for others, more sedate. The first few times I'm doing my commute, I'll vary the gears on the highway back and forth between 4th, 5th, and 6th (if equipped) gears, but that's about it, really. This has never proven to be detrimental for me. My 04 Mazda 3, which I bought new, underwent the same procedure, and that's at 170K now. I run it 7500 miles between changes on synthetic (Mobil 1), and it consumes no oil. Of course, the thing is, ultimately, no style can be proven or disproven to be any more or less effective than another, and that's exactly why I just drive it like I'm going to drive it. I just don't think it really matters and, in my experience, it hasn't.

It would also stand to reason that you don't see much from people complaining about oil usage when they do lots of redline runs and whatnot because they know that driving style is more likely to consume oil and, as a result, they're a lot less likely to complain about it.

stan_t

Subaru recently started making the new FB engine and people are complaining too.

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...lot-oil-96178/

Having owned aircooled VWs and have built a couple of engines for them myself, I've gotten a little familiar with special "tricks" engine builders have from working with machinists and builders, they'll usually keep a couple of things kind of a secret.

With a performance engine, there are always tradeoffs. Most modern engines will fall into this category since most will try to squeeze best mileage and power out of a small displacement engine. One thing that's popular now is decreasing weight and friction -- light parts, light oils. These engines can actually be great for performance, too -- most racing engines are built with loose specs including ring gap -- but this may mean you need to be on top of checking oil level regularly and may need to drive the car harder than usual, at least sometimes. Again, just opinions.

Stan

MrOtocinclus

My knowledge (or lack thereof) prevents me from contributing anything useful to this thread, but I'm learning a lot. Thanks, and keep the info coming!

stan_t

I do agree with this to a certain degree, but I still follow my ways, just because it seems to work for me so far.

Another factor is how far people go on the same oil. These oils do break down. I'd be very curious to see what your oil level was at same mileage my car is at now, which is close to 2K. I've checked oil level in my car a few times on different surfaces within the last few days lol, this is something I'm very curious about. My oil level appears to have stayed the same as when I first checked it at the dealership, except oil is more brown now, though still reasonably clean-looking.

Stan

turning japanese

I just want to point out (once again) that it was you that instigated the 'not to sound like a jerk phenomenon' (which we all know is a common behavioral device and we all understand the real meaning), by making your own assumptions about my post.

And once again, I was simply adding my own personal experience about new motors using oil. I made an effort to establish a caveat: "I don't know much about Honda motors (this is my first one)" And explicitly made a point that I have come directly from owning a Mercedes AMG with the 6.2 l V8 and several Porsches with boxer motors. That was simply my experience: "My own experience is that new motors can use oil in the beginning and then normally taper off."

It was no more a comparison of those motors to a Honda motor than what others here have now posted about their own experience with owning Mazdas and Subarus. They aren't specifically "making comparisons" but voicing their own personal experiences. In your head and by your own logic, they too are not making "a valid comparison for judging what is "normal" when it comes to oil consumption on this engine." But in reality they are simply pointing to their own experiences as a method of coming to an understanding of the issue of oil use in a new Honda.

Next time, just drop the heavily loaded 'not to sound like a jerk' line and say instead: "Yeah I know that other motors can burn oil during break-in but having previous experience with Honda, this isn't the case with these motors." That would be helpful to me as a newbie to the Honda product and would make you sound a lot less arrogant. After all, you started your post with this: "Hey gang. Got a question." You should expect people to chime in with their own experiences despite whether they fit your personal hypothesis or not. After all, people are making an effort to take the time to try to help by making suggestions/observations. It's your thread and we're taking time to help you think through it. If you don't really need suggestions, then don't start a thread.

Cheers.

ceb

The color of oil has nothing to do with its abilities to do its job. On older engines and on virtually any diesel, the oil will turn dirty looking very quickly.

stan_t

^^ Totally agree, just simply reporting my findings.

Stan

Slade037

Kretrop,

Let me know if you continue to consume oil. I am about 350 miles into my consumption test. A lot of highway to the beach and back. I tried to vary my RPMs but I was just cruise controlling a lot if it.

Hope this works out for you!