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HELP! "Grinding" Noise When Starting 2012 TSX

 
Old 11-26-2016, 02:07 PM
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HELP! "Grinding" Noise When Starting 2012 TSX

Hello,

I'm hoping somebody can help me in hopes to shed some sort of light on my problem. I have a 2012 TSX Base with 86,000KM. For the past year and a half, whenever the car has been sitting off for at least 7+ hours, I go to turn it on and I get this grinding noise under the hood. Some days it can be really scary sounding and others it's just a little grind. It usually last for about half a second. It mostly started in the winter of 2015 and I thought it was just because my car sits out on the driveway and it's bloody cold (here in Canada). But then it started happening all throughout the hot summer so I knew something was up. It really doesn't affect the performance of the car as the car has been great to me for almost four years. But needless to say, any sound under the hood scares me. The car is due back in March 2017 at the end of the lease and I would like to keep it but I don't trust the noise. I brought it to Acura and they couldn't fix the problem. They don't know what it is. I'm not a car guy by any means so any help would be appreciated. Please see the link for the video >

Thanks,
MB
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Old 11-26-2016, 03:37 PM
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See following thread and weep.

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tsx-...ng-car-778169/

good luck
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Old 11-27-2016, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by TexasHonda View Post
See following thread and weep.

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tsx-...ng-car-778169/

good luck
Whats the answer? VTC Actuator? I have scheduled maintenance with the dealer to get this fixed on mine this week under the powertrain warranty. However mine sounds a bit diff rent the the OP's.
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:24 PM
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Based on EVERYTHING i have read on this site, I would guess 85% of people's issues have been resolved by replacing the VTC Actuator. I'm looking at buying the part from here: ACTUATOR ASSY., VTC (46T) for 2012 Acura TSX SEDAN|14310-R40-A02 : Acura Parts | Genuine Acura OEM Parts | Acura Parts Cheap

I'm probably going to buy the part and look into what Acura or another mechanic shop will charge to install this. If it's a combined $500ish repair, I can live with that. Although somebody did bring up a good point. If this part is defective, are we just buying a new replacement defective part to fix the current one? I hope that's not the case. But I guess I'm willing to try it one time and see how it goes.
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Old 11-28-2016, 09:48 AM
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There must be a significant frequency of this problem, probably more for high mileage vehicles, but must not be enough to prompt Honda/Acura to fix. It is a problem on 4-cyl cars across Acura/Honda lines. It appears the part has not been updated.

You might try "bumping the startier" prior to startup. This may allow the retaining pin in the VTC actuator to seat properly. Purely speculation on my part as to benefit.

My problem has entirely disappeared after warm weather last spring and so far no cold weather to speak of in S Tx.

good luck
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Old 11-28-2016, 12:40 PM
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Cold weather is back and I'm seeing the problem more now (1 in 3 cold starts maybe).

Mr Bee I don't think you should replace the VTC actuator since the part hasn't been updated. You may temporarily fix the issue, but it will more than likely come back in the future.

I've heard the 08-12 I4 Accords (which have similar(/same?) VTC actuator as ours) have a replacement part for the VTC actuator now. Acura still lagging behind for our TSXs though...
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Old 11-29-2016, 09:25 PM
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No grind during the summer, but since the colder temps have started, so has the grind.....it's an irritant for sure, but if it can't be perma fixed, I'm living with it until ( hopefully ) spring hits again...

Good luck.....
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Old 12-01-2016, 11:55 AM
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I've had mine replaced and the noise returned only a few weeks later.
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Old 12-01-2016, 01:30 PM
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What is strange is that it has been cold here, under 40F, and I have not had the noise few the past week. I had to cancel service in fear that they would not hear it. Lets see what happens when it gets really, really cold (in the single digits).

I know there is a updated part for Honda, but Acura is not using it?

Originally Posted by t3hhcaptain View Post
I've had mine replaced and the noise returned only a few weeks later.
Does it consistently make the noise on every start after the car has been sitting + cold weather?
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Old 12-01-2016, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TSX1012m6 View Post
Does it consistently make the noise on every start after the car has been sitting + cold weather?
9/10 times, yes.
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by t3hhcaptain View Post
I've had mine replaced and the noise returned only a few weeks later.
...so people realize not to replace the VTC actuator with the same defective part!
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Old 12-01-2016, 03:26 PM
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A brand new part still making the noise is unacceptable. You're telling me you can buy the car brand new, and it will make that noise within two weeks and Honda hasn't re-called/ fixed this? It seems like all of them will have this problem.
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Old 12-01-2016, 03:32 PM
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I had mine replaced before the part was called defective. There is a TSB that states to replace the part, so I did that. Now they say it is a defective design a couple months after I replaced it.

Edit: Mine is a 2009 as well
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Old 12-01-2016, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by t3hhcaptain View Post
I had mine replaced before the part was called defective. There is a TSB that states to replace the part, so I did that. Now they say it is a defective design a couple months after I replaced it.
I dont think the TSB covers the 2012 :/
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TSX1012m6 View Post
I dont think the TSB covers the 2012 :/
Yeah, I'm not sure. It's the same defective design from my understanding though.

I'm curious if a pre-oiler would fix the problem. I saw this mentioned in a different thread and would like to install one eventually... basically when you turn the ignition on, a valve opens on this pressurized canister and creates oil pressure in the system, thus reducing hard starts. The problem with the vtec actuator from a video explanation is that it rocks back and forth (obviously very fast) until it has enough oil pressure to stay in the correct position. Seems like if the pressure were established before starting the engine then it would never grind like it does.
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:52 AM
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Yes, a system to pressurize the VTC actuator would work, however it would be difficult and expensive to implement. Not a practical diy solution and very unlikely that Honda/Acura would add this item.

What I find hard to understand is why the 1st Gen TSX's have no problems w/ VTC actuator. Surely 1st Gen vs 2nd Gen VTC actuators are not very different. This suggests that a fix is possible.

I suspect bumping the starter may help to reseat the lock pin, but getting my wife to do this is difficult.

good luck
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasHonda View Post
Yes, a system to pressurize the VTC actuator would work, however it would be difficult and expensive to implement. Not a practical diy solution and very unlikely that Honda/Acura would add this item.

What I find hard to understand is why the 1st Gen TSX's have no problems w/ VTC actuator. Surely 1st Gen vs 2nd Gen VTC actuators are not very different. This suggests that a fix is possible.

I suspect bumping the starter may help to reseat the lock pin, but getting my wife to do this is difficult.

good luck
I know there is also a TSB for (accord I think) about replacing the starter due to a grinding noise.

Has anyone replaced the starter to see if it alleviates the issue?
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Old 12-06-2016, 09:49 AM
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Anyone with the VTC issue, when you start the car and start driving within a few seconds, do yoy hear the rattle once you are above ~1,800rpms as the cars moving? Ive noticed that as well. It doesn't last long but it's there.
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TSX1012m6 View Post
Anyone with the VTC issue, when you start the car and start driving within a few seconds, do yoy hear the rattle once you are above ~1,800rpms as the cars moving? Ive noticed that as well. It doesn't last long but it's there.
I can hear some noise if I take off nearly immediately after starting it, but it sounds more like valve train as opposed to the actuator.

Personally I like to let the car sit for 30 seconds to a minute before driving off so it has a chance to build some pressure.
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:11 PM
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Dropped her off tonight to have them check it out. I really hope it replicates for them or they take my word for it. Well see.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:24 AM
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Yay the dealer was able to replicate the noise! Getting the VTC actuator replaced under powertrain warranty

They said the drive belt could use to be replaced and wanted to charge $180 to do it. I said another time. How tough of a job is it to replace the belt?
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TSX1012m6 View Post
Yay the dealer was able to replicate the noise! Getting the VTC actuator replaced under powertrain warranty

They said the drive belt could use to be replaced and wanted to charge $180 to do it. I said another time. How tough of a job is it to replace the belt?

Not at all.. hardest part is probably properly routing it around all the components... I bet they can do that job is 15 minutes or less..

1.https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-59000-R.../dp/B0019CQL2E tool to release tension
2. remove belt
3. reinstall belt
4. profit
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
Not at all.. hardest part is probably properly routing it around all the components... I bet they can do that job is 15 minutes or less..

1.https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-59000-R.../dp/B0019CQL2E tool to release tension
2. remove belt
3. reinstall belt
4. profit
If you opt for the Bando belt be sure to get the right part number. I shared that in another thread titled "PSA: " something something.

Edit: https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tsx-...e-belt-947756/

Last edited by t3hhcaptain; 12-08-2016 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:33 PM
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Just picked it up. Started up real nice and no noise. They replaced the spark plug and head cover gasket too. Let's hope it stays this way
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Old 12-09-2016, 09:28 AM
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Started up this morning with no noise in 25F weather! The RPMs jumped significantly higher than before. It used to only jump to ~1,800 rpms but now it went up to about 2,300 rpms when starting for a second. I wonder if the failing actuator was responsible for that.

PS - last thread bump a swear
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Old 12-09-2016, 11:30 AM
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This issue is accentuated by cold weather because cold oil is more viscous and therefore takes longer to reach the areas it has drained out of while the car sits. It is intermittent because of varying sit times and the position where the internals stop when the car is shut down.

Glad to hear the VTC replacement is fixing the issue.
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Old 12-10-2016, 10:50 AM
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I blasted this tune from the great David Wilcox the other day, quite appropriate for our collective issue. ( My baby does ) The Grind, LOL

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...0D91&FORM=VIRE
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Old 12-11-2016, 09:19 AM
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My wife reported first instance of VTC rattle w/ cold (40-50F) temps in Houston.

Has anyone heard of damage resulting from VTC rattle? I can live w/ the startup rattle, but would repair to avoid damage.

good luck
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Old 12-11-2016, 11:23 AM
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Good luck! Mine came back 4.5 months after replacing but only happens sporadically now (approx. once after every 7 starts up and more prone to pop up in damp and/or cold weather).
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Old 12-12-2016, 11:29 AM
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Taking my 2011 in on Friday to diagnose what the problem is. TSB b1-024 only covers models up to 2010. Obviously, Honda has not fixed the issue. I filed a complaint with Honda as well. If there are enough complaints, Honda may do something with it. I will let you guys know how it turns out.

My 1st gen TSX did not have this problem. When I traded it in, it had 197K on the clock. Honda doesn't seem to be as good as they were.
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Old 12-14-2016, 02:14 PM
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Unhappy

Originally Posted by Mr-Bee19 View Post
Hello,

I'm hoping somebody can help me in hopes to shed some sort of light on my problem. I have a 2012 TSX Base with 86,000KM. For the past year and a half, whenever the car has been sitting off for at least 7+ hours, I go to turn it on and I get this grinding noise under the hood. Some days it can be really scary sounding and others it's just a little grind. It usually last for about half a second. It mostly started in the winter of 2015 and I thought it was just because my car sits out on the driveway and it's bloody cold (here in Canada). But then it started happening all throughout the hot summer so I knew something was up. It really doesn't affect the performance of the car as the car has been great to me for almost four years. But needless to say, any sound under the hood scares me. The car is due back in March 2017 at the end of the lease and I would like to keep it but I don't trust the noise. I brought it to Acura and they couldn't fix the problem. They don't know what it is. I'm not a car guy by any means so any help would be appreciated. Please see the link for the video > https://youtu.be/e0BNdzSNeXI

Thanks,
MB
I'm new to this forum, but have been experiencing the same issue. I bought the car (2009 model) in July, and have no issues until now. Other people have said it only happens during cold weather, and that seems to be the case. I've had no issues with this in the summer/fall months.
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Old 12-14-2016, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by tsx21612 View Post
I'm new to this forum, but have been experiencing the same issue. I bought the car (2009 model) in July, and have no issues until now. Other people have said it only happens during cold weather, and that seems to be the case. I've had no issues with this in the summer/fall months.
Only a mechanic can say for sure, but the VTC Actuator is very common to make this noise. While it sounds scary, there is very little to worry about. I had mine replaced as it was under warranty, but I believe it costs $700+ for the dealer to perform the repair out of warranty. I do not believe it is worth it in that case.
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Old 12-19-2016, 04:53 AM
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Add me to the grinding list as well. The cold temps here in Texas lately has made it a coming occurrence. If it is not damaging anything that's cool I guess but it's so damn embarrassing. I drive a luxury sedan but starting my car sounds like a 1995 cavalier with 300k miles. It really makes me want to sell this car even though I love everything else about it.
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:32 AM
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Suggest bumping the starter to reset the VTC actuator pin. I've tried this but my VTC noise is highly irregular so difficult to tell if it does any good.

good lluck
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:34 AM
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I've been having this issue for several months if not a year myself, but as others described only when it is cold outside and the car has been sitting all day/night. It's an embarrassing noise but as it only last 2 seconds max, I'm not spending $500+ to have it fixed with the same defective part.
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:13 PM
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So after reading the rest of everybody's responses, I've decided I'm not going through wth the repair. The start up is annoying and as some have said, embarassing, but if it's not going to fix the problem in the long run, then I'm saving my money. My car is due back from lease in two months and I want to keep it but was fearing the noise. It's funny, this morning it started up with no grind in -12 C here in Canada, where other days, it sounds extremely horrible.

I guess my last question is, I want to keep it, but does this Actuator problem have the chance to further damage anything else under the hood?
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:21 AM
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I've asked this question (damage from VTC actuator noise?) w/o any responses on several forums. It is not exactly clear about the origin of the noise but here's my guess:

Noise is camshaft moving rapidly back/forth under valve spring load until oil pressure arises and locks the VTC in zero advance position. Since camshaft is moving w/I normal limits no damage should occur although there could be damage to the VTC actuator when lock pin is partially engaged and camshaft is forced to another position by spring load. Damage to lock pin seems most likely. My speculation is that no significant damage occurs since many folks have the noise but no one seems to have any related damage.

Another strange fact. The 04-06 TSX seems immune to this problem but has similar VTC actuator. What is the difference and does this suggest a fix for the later (07^ TSX's).

good luck
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by TexasHonda View Post
I've asked this question (damage from VTC actuator noise?) w/o any responses on several forums. It is not exactly clear about the origin of the noise but here's my guess:

Noise is camshaft moving rapidly back/forth under valve spring load until oil pressure arises and locks the VTC in zero advance position. Since camshaft is moving w/I normal limits no damage should occur although there could be damage to the VTC actuator when lock pin is partially engaged and camshaft is forced to another position by spring load. Damage to lock pin seems most likely. My speculation is that no significant damage occurs since many folks have the noise but no one seems to have any related damage.

Another strange fact. The 04-06 TSX seems immune to this problem but has similar VTC actuator. What is the difference and does this suggest a fix for the later (07^ TSX's).

good luck
​​​​​​

Mine was replaced recently and within a few weeks the noise came right back. Not as bad as it used to be but for sure as others have stated, replacing this doesn't fix the noise.

If I'm not mistaken there is a Honda part revision for accords for our engines. In typical Acura fasion, they have not adapted this part.
​​​
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Old 07-10-2017, 09:33 AM
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I heard mine for the first time over the weekend. That did not sound right at all.
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TSX1012m6 View Post
​​​​​​

Mine was replaced recently and within a few weeks the noise came right back. Not as bad as it used to be but for sure as others have stated, replacing this doesn't fix the noise.

If I'm not mistaken there is a Honda part revision for accords for our engines. In typical Acura fasion, they have not adapted this part.
​​​
Could you post a link where I can find information of the updated vtc part# for the Accord? I have a 2012 and I guess since it's not included in the tsb I'm gonna have to do this myself.
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