Sonnick

Yes it should match. The runners are the same as far as I know. The stock manifold opening is much smaller. Mine was ported and 68mm, so I'm assuming 65-66. Porting the runners are a must with this manifold.

fsttyms1

Because dual is roughly 130, much more than 80. I don't have the 80 on,I was just experimenting.

65 and yes, it matches the lowers, and it flows much better than our stock manifold.

Sonnick

Check my dyno again Fox. It compares my ported stock manifold to the gasket matched 3.7 manifold/Maxbored 3.7 TB/Polished runners. You will want it after lol.

Btw, I emailed Bill and asked if he could shed some light on the cams. I'll keep you guys updated.

1foxbody

That makes sense. So are you doing the dual setup on a stock manifold or 09 manifold?

I just browsed through your thread fast but did you pick up about 15whp and 5wtq from just the manifold and throttle body swap? What was all done to your stock manifold?

Honestly to tell you the truth I would most likely do the dual throttle body setup on my stock manifold that seems more logical. Still port it, polish the upper and lower runners, and keep my p2r plenums. I would have to buy another p2r throttle body spacer to match. I think that would be a pretty stout setup for cheap and flow a lot more air than my untouched manifold and throttle body that's on the car now.

Let us know what Bill says. I'm still leaning towards bisimoto because I can buy the whole package from them.

Sonnick

Yea all the gains can be attributed to the manifold/TB/runners. Previously, I had bought a ported P2R manifold from another forum member. The neck was ported to 68mm and the lower ports were enlarged a bit (not sure how much). As far as I could tell, internally, the manifold was stock. < Don't quote me on that though.

The dual TB manifold would be a great idea and definitely yield great gains. It hasn't been dyno'd thus far but a member of has one and is going to dyno at some point. He has a 3.6L by the way.

I will let you guys know what Bill says. I'm debating whether or not we need to upgrade the valvetrain with cams. I would probably go for it, considering I have 105k. Sigh....more $$.

Mopply

iTrader: (1)

Just chiming in here (still trying to learn stuff you guys are talking about) and I was wondering about the whole P2R Plenums vs. 3.7 intake manifold vs. Dual Throttle Body thing going on. I know spoon-feeding is frowned upon but I was curious about the Dual Throttle Body. Would it be two throttle bodies put together or would the throttle bodies be in different locations to have airflow coming from two entry points in the engine? Or Am I just thinking this completely wrong? lol

1foxbody

Well I decided I'm going to go with gude perforance cams and most likely supertech valve springs and retainers. It shouldn't be too expensive compared to bisimoto. I just don't like what everyone says about bisimoto and how expensive they are, I'll keep it at that.

As for the intake manifold setup, I'm leaning towards doing a dual oem throttle body setup. I would come up with something custom to surprise you guys lol. It sucks since I already have a custom intake so I would have to figure out something with that if I went that route.

fsttyms1

I played/playing with it on a modified type-s manifold, and i want to try on a 09+ honda mani. (as the 09+ acura mani is magnesium and i dont think the honda is)

Id like to make 2, one with longer runners and one with much shorter runners inside and when i finally dyno tune it see what the differences are, shorter should yield more hp and less torque, but since im doing a 3.5 (3.7) (but have now ordered a 3.7 crank and internals to make a 3.7) i dont think a torque loss will matter.

1foxbody

Did you ever speak with Bill?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

For your ported manifold I am assuming they did not remove the glue/welds that hold the plenum sections on, and did not port that section. Another tl owner had his done by moores performance and claims they probably ported the whole intake and he did not see the gains you did.

On our intakes the plenums bolt on so it is easier to port, you can add plenum spacers or p2r plenums, plus the horns are bolt on also so you can experiment with different length horns. I am running the ones from the mdx. They are longer and I think match with the larger plenum volume. Plus whether the intake was ported by you in your garage or by a real shop with a flow bench makes a difference.

fsttyms1

I have seen guys cut the 09 accord mani open to gain access to the ports, then weld it back up. When i get around to mine (as soon as i get a new tig welder) I plan on cutting them open and when i weld it together add material to make the intake volume larger.

Sonnick

I emailed him but have yet to receive a response.
Yea he didn't see much gains at all, which I thought was weird. Considering the fact that the 3.7 manifold has a 76mm opening compared to my ported 68mm, I can't imagine why he didn't see gains. The TB is also much, much larger even than stock ported. He said he is going to dyno again as well. I think his exhaust was lacking and could be part of the reason he didn't see gains.The lower ports on my 3.7 manifold were also matched to the OEM gasket, which matched perfectly with my ported runners. I also don't think he had ported runners, which is a must when doing this setup (I think).

Trap speeds don't lie. I trapped 102 prior to the 3.7 setup and 103.9 after. That's almost 2MPH gain at the same track in similar conditions (slightly higher DA actually). Considering my best 60' the night I ran 14.0 @ 102 was a 2.28 I think(?) and my worst 60' the other time was a 2.23 running a 13.71 @103.9, I'd say it gave me a solid 0.2x at the track as well as ~2mph.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

In my experience with these motors, they have poorly matched ports from the upper plenum to the entrance of the intake port on the head itself of which is the worst part. IMO, simply porting the lower/upper plenum without port matching all the way to the intake port on the head is NOT worth the disappointing gains it yields. This is where most of the air obstruction occurs.

Sonnick

^ But wouldn't porting the lower runners on the head side be counterproductive? I thought that would lead to more turbulence because porting the runner but not the head itself would leave a lip causing even more turbulence. Please correct me if I am wrong.

fsttyms1

assuming you port the runner larger than the opening on the head yea, yea you will. It would be like boring out the TB but not increasing the opening on the intake manifold. counter productive. That is why when doing this stuff you typically "gasket match" both surfaces so that you know where to take material off to line up exactly.

Sonnick

Precisely. I had the lower runners of my 3.7 manifold gasket matched to the OEM gasket which matched perfectly to the ported runners. I was just under the assumption that the stock runners/intake ports on the heads were matched from the factory and that any porting would offset this. Sounds like I'm wrong though.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

There are very few engines that come port matched from the factory. When you see them, they are normally on higher end performance manufacturers that can do things like that when charging a few hundred thousand for the car itself. :-)

When I say they are the biggest issue I see, I don't mean severely. Usually about 1mm maybe 2mm at most difference from the oem gasket. Depending on what you port the runners out to, some gasket modifications may be required in order to actually benefit from the port work. I'll try and post some shots of the gorgeous heads I've been working on for the past few weeks now...yes, weeks.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

My intake and runners came from the p2r accord race car. They ported
the runners all the way through, so I would think there is a little room to better port match to the heads. Everything they ported matches up perfectly on my engine. Heads on p2r and my car were/are untouched.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Pictures of J32A2 ported/polished heads as promised. Most of the head work (mostly porting) was done by a professional engine builder local to me but Ive been tweaking them for the past few weeks. Mostly exhaust port and combustion chamber polishing but really trying to get the detail to stand out. Not finished yet but here they are...

1foxbody

Those look great!! Do you have any before pictures? I'm curious to see what they look like untouched.

rush

iTrader: (1)

Looks great would you be using stock valves or are also getting a valve job ?

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

From what I can tell, you might be able to get an additional .5mm on the intake and 1mm on the exhaust. Due to them already have very good flow (even in stock form), I'm going to leave them as they are. I will do a simple reseat for the valves and that's about it.

ParaSurfer1979

I'm just asking this question. Are you guys using the new HP/TQ numbers (258/232) for the J32 when you dyno your cars? I had a 03 CL-S6 and that's what I would have done if I had it now to get true power numbers based on the new HP revisions back in 06.

Happy Holidays AZ... :-)

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Well your motor (j32a3) makes 258hp but when the 2g TL-S motor (j32a2) was introduced in 2001 (?) it was said to have 260hp and that was NOT an sae corrected number....nor am I sure if its ever been corrected. I would guesstimate somewhere around 245ish if it were to be corrected.

The thing is, sae correction started around 2005 for most manufacturers and Honda was one of the first to begin using the corrected numbers. Because it (sae correction) is nearly 10 years in use already, it's pretty much become a standard when people list there HP/TQ figures....just as people have adapted to dialing 10-digit phone numbers now rather than the old 7-digit. Phased out.

If you ever go to a dyno that isn't "SAE Corrected", then you should know that this is generally used ONLY for inflation of power ratings. To make the person feel better about their cars and the money they put into it. ;-)

Contrarily, the Z06 whenever it was first introduced actually gained 5hp on the SAE corrected dyno.

fsttyms1

rush

iTrader: (1)

You've done 95% of the head work a 3 angle valve job would give more hp/tq than pnp just IMO

NobleTL

I've been researching on the forums the zdx intake manifold swap with zdx tb and p2r gaskets. I currently have an Injen CAI, not sure the size. Most likely will have to get a larger intake after the swap. I have some DC headers that need to be installed and some Tsudo Axle-Back Mufflers already on my TL type s. I've been looking up HFC's and depending on the outlet for the headers, I think it's 2.5 in, I was going to do 2.5-2.25 but after reading some of the threads with this j37 swap most said 3 in would be better for piping. The cat I was looking for was 2.5 in/2.5 out but wondering if I should do 3 in out then piping of 3-2.5. What's the best size piping for the swap, headers, hfc and Tsudo Mufflers?

Everyone in this thread mentioned a particular order to do the mods in. Sounds like exhaust needs to be done first. Then larger CAI with the IM and TB. I read quite a few posts on how the zdx tb doesn't need to be bored out anymore. Currently I don't have any engine mods. I liked the idea of the gude cams in this thread and the j37 camshafts. I looked up the p2r plenums and they cost quite a bit. But read someone made spacers and was interested in those. Was looking into j37 fuel rails but someone said if I wasn't going to SC or Turbo the motor the fuel system isn't as important. Tried to look up other parts from j-series I could install on my car and wasn't sure about pistons if I should do the RL ones? And if eventually I should work on the valve train, I think by KMS.

Eventually I'd like to either do the av6 transmission swap or the CL 6 speed. If I were to put the 6 speed in I could transfer the bolt ons to the CL motor. Didn't know if there were certain mods I shouldn't do and wait till the swap. Or if I'll do the av6 and it won't matter.

My question is about the size of CAI, HFC and piping given the swap. And what order I should do some of these mods? Feel like I've learned quite a bit but still don't know everything.

JarrettLauderdale

You would have been better served to make a new thread about this as it doesn't really follow the original intentions of the original post and it's been 3 years since someone else posted here.

To one of your points:

The ZDX throttle body will not work for you as you have a mechanically-operated throttle body. You will need to use an adapter and an aftermarket throttle body.