TypeYes

06+ Civic Si with i/h/e/tune wouldn't even be close to a driver's race with a stock 5AT TL-S.

I came from an '08 Si with i/h/e/no tune that absolutely spanked my buddies stock '06 Si (as it should). My bone stock (except for coils) 5AT TL-S pulls decently on his Si, surprisingly even above 100mph. But it definitely doesn't pull hard enough to even keep within 5 lengths of my Si.

dgsedan06

I would imagine it is. This was done in 95+ degree conditions and in drive mode. As I've proved before, my car is quicker when I use the manual mode.

Sonnick

The Si doesn't pull very hard at all after 100 when in stock form. I agree that a bolt on/tuned Si will walk a stock 5AT TL-s, but I wouldn't go so far as 'estimating' you'd pull 5 lengths with bolt ons and no tune. That's quite a gap....

Ever try switching cars with your friend? Sounds like you're the better driver.

TypeYes

I've considered it but he's a pretty good driver, especially from a roll. Also, add in the fact that my Si pulled a car and a half on G35 coupe with at least catback and intake.

And, the Si pulled plenty hard after 100 in stock form. When I was stock that's where I would reel most people that wanted to race in.

dgsedan06

Sounds like a fast Si. I raced one with every bolt on and a tune. I walked him like he was standing still. It was a coworkers ugly tan colored 4 door. Maybe the color slowed it down lol

HondaProtegeX2.3

it just depends i used to have a 07 si coupe and waxed every single g35 auto that stepped up. the 06+ g35 tho is beast they got like 305 or something like that stock from the factory those should be able to pull on the si's 350z auto would walk away to.. ya i first thought when i got my tl its fast as shit but no after raceing my friends bmw 335i coupe fully bolt ons he waxed me with four people in his car. i would think it would be a way better race if i had a 6 speed or a super charger. i figure i would be able to burn him but i wasnt thinkin that it was modded. when i raced him he would pull like 3 cars hittin like 150 and i hit like 140 before he shut it down

TypeYes

IDK, I'm guessing he didn't have the mods you say he did or the difference in your mods and the one I raced made that big of a difference. From what I hear, a tune makes a HUGE difference above the mods I had on my Si so I don't really know.

dgsedan06

He had I/e/h, flywheel and clutch upgrades along with a tune. It seems like he hits a wall in the triple digits. Whats the top speed on those things with a tune? I was doing 145+ and he was pretty far behind. Ill try to record it if I ever get a chance to race him. He probably won't want to now that I've added things. Lol

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

I've heard about these quick Si's, but the two I/H/E/T that I ran weren't all that. One was before I had HFC's, ported TB/runners and lighter wheels/tires and I pulled him easily from 40 on, multiple times; no passengers for either of us. The second one had a passenger and I had the HFC's but before the porting and lighter wheels and I still pulled multiple times, although it was closer than the other one. Then there was what appeared to be a stock one, and well that was just ugly.

AtlM5

I feel like the Si's peaky torqueless engines loose more from not having a good driver than a tl or most other cars. I have dusted a few but one of my brothers has a stock one and he's a good driver and the outcome is closer than you might think.

Sonnick

Yea, the Si with a good driver is a pretty quick car when bolt on/tuned.

TypeYes: Idk, everytime I see the Si speedo vids above 100 when stock it's awfully slow. I believe I posted a video of me running a modded one here and I walked him hard. It's not a great video though. He had I/RH/E from what I can tell. Not sure if he had any passengers, I had none.

I did run one at the track though with I/RH/E/tune/mounts and it was a dead even run. He inched me out in terms of ET 14.02 to 14.12 and I barely out-trapped him that run 101.17 to 100.91. If we would've kept going I have no doubts I would've pulled a couple cars by 120. I've seen a few bolt on/tuned Si's pull high 13s @101-102, but I've also seen some with the same mods run mid-high 14s @96-97. Even one in the mid 15s lulz.

TypeYes

IDK man. Sounds like bad drivers to me.

With my Si, I ran 14.63 @ 97 bone stock. With my mods, I ran 13.79 @ 102 and she was still pulling hard as balls up top. That car was a beast, especially on the highway. I embarrassed so many tools with that thing...idiots thinking they had me when they'd pull a little bit in 2nd, then I would come around them hard in 3rd. I raced an Accord with your mods and the results were laughable. He had nothing for me...at any point.

I also did a pull with a Si with the same basic mods (different brand header and exhaust) and a decent driver and I pulled him by a couple lengths by the time we shut it down.

I miss my Si sometimes. Like, I miss rev matching in 2nd, or just driving manual in general. I miss the beautiful FBP paint, although the ASM paint is pretty sexy itself. I miss the AMAZING steering feel, response and handling.

I don't miss the negative attention I received from cops because my car was LOUD. I don't miss the uncomfortable ride. I don't miss my legs cramping from driving manual and sitting in traffic. I don't miss having to maintain dark paint.

My TL-S is slammed on coils and it still rides better than my Si ever did at stock height. It doesn't handle like the Si, but I'm getting older now (and have a bad back) so I'll take the tradeoff. It nice just being able to cruise without having to shift. Plus, my TL gets 100% more looks and broken necks from people that I pass. Although my Si was a sexy beautiful car in a locally rare color, everyone has one. I guess people appreciate the TL because you don't see them modded as often.

TypeYes

My whole point in bringing up my Si was because someone said it would be a driver's race versus the stock 5AT TL-S. I haven't seen any stock TL-S in the 13s so I don't see how it could even be close. Any race could be a "driver's race"... I.E.- I've seen people considering an idiot in a fast car that can't get out of first vs. a good driver in a slow car a driver's race. As far as I'm concerned, a driver's race is two pretty much identically performing cars going head to head, pretty much being even the whole time, maybe seperated by a few tenths that is determined by someone's shift point.

vhtran

^ psssh I'd bet that my Audi A6 3.2L can walk your Si and probably your TL too. You pick your ride and I'll pick the course hahaha.

I had left plenty of them cars like they were standing still at stop lights. Accords, TL-s, 535i, 335i, M3, G35c, and the list with FWD/RWD cars goes on.








Of course those were rainy and snowy day.

Sonnick

I doubt you ran a 7G Accord with my mods lol and if you did and the 'results were laughable,' it wasn't a 6 speed.

Running a 13.79 @102 without FlashPro? That's laughable. What track was this? Full weight? Unless you had a dramatically smaller tire size or a diff FD, that 102 trap is extremely hard to believe. I'd believe the 13.79 if you were on some sort of DR or slick, but not street tires without FlashPro.

I will agree with you and say the Si is a quick car with a good driver and the right mods. But your claims of trapping 102 without FlashPro are pretty bogus, unless of course you left that part out. 97mph bone stock is hard to believe as well, although I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that. Either way, a 5mph difference from I/RH/E is laughable as well untuned.

I've only lost to 1 K series car thus far, and that was a member here, Yonkers. His RSX is extremely quick for his mods. There is a video in this section of the 3 way. The camera car was another RSX that trapped 102-103 consistently and I pulled him by ~2 cars as well.

Excuse the long/semi-defensive response lol. Sorry OP.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

You've got to get the idea out of your head that an I/H/E/T Si running 13's is the norm. There are tons of them that run anywhere in the 14's and there are a couple TL-S 5AT's on here that have run 14.2-14.3 stock, so Paperboy's comment about the two cars being a drivers race was not unrealistic.

TypeYes

It was a 6-6 coupe just like yours but I believe he had a J pipe. He wrecked that car swerving to miss a deer sadly. It was a really nice car.

I ran those times at Island Dragway in Great Meadows, NJ in admittedly perfect weather on my best stock run. I was on slightly deflated OEM sized tires, full weight except I took the spare tire and jack out. Oh, I also had a short shifter...not like that really matters.

I witnessed a 4dr Si with I/H/E/no tune (and no back seats) run 13.5 at Etown so IDK man.

Supposedly, a bone stock Si ran 13.8 somewhere (I've seen a video somewhere) even before Flashpro came out so maybe there are "freaks" out there. The 5 mph difference is absolutely believeable. You've obviously never gone from stock header K20 to RH K20...it's pretty freakin crazy. Just remember the Si weighs 500 less than your car...that's a lot of weight. The Si power to weight ratio is much better than the V6 Accord stock for stock. Judging by the way I destroyed the Accord with your mods, how about I call bogus on you? I won't go there.

I have no reason to lie to you. I gain nothing from it, I don't even have the car anymore. I don't even care about going "fast" anymore. It's part of the reason I'm happy I have my TL, it keeps me out of trouble.

I actually have my timeslips in a binder somewhere. I saved them all when I was really into going to the track every Friday. I haven't been to the track in over 3 years so that binder is probably at the bottom of my closet, but I'll try to dig it out.

TypeYes

SIs with those mods running 13s is absolutely the norm. I am still a member on 8th, I see the damn people running high 13s all the damn time, putting my times to shame without Flashpro. 5 tenths is a pretty big difference man.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you just did.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

Just thought I would correct your figures.

The SI power to weight ratio is very similar to the accord stock vs stock but the accords is better. Plus it is not a 500lbs difference like you say.

Here are the SI weights over the years as I don't know what year/body your SI was.

Curb weight
2,877 lb (1,305 kg) (2006 coupe)
2,886 lb (1,309 kg) (2007-08 coupe)
2,899 lb (1,315 kg) (2009 coupe)
2,895 lb (1,313 kg) (2010-11 coupe)
2,945 lb (1,336 kg) (2007-08 sedan)
2,954 lb (1,340 kg) (2009-11 sedan)

I do know that a 2003 Accord Coupe EX V6 6MT weighs 3260lbs. You are talking about 43 more HP with the accord over the civic at the crank.
Power to weight ratio - 2877lbs /197hp = 14.604
The heaviest SI is 2954lbs / 197hp = 14.99

Accord V6 6MT Power to weight ratio
3260lbs / 240hp = 13.583
Accord V6 Auto Coupe 3295lbs / 240lbs= 13.729

As you can see the accord has a much better power to weight ratio than the Civic SI. I won't even list the torque to weight ratio as that is more embarrassing for the SI.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

It's amazing out of all the N/A bolted/tuned '06+ Si's on Dragtimes, only one is in under 14.00, with no time slip either. All the rest are in the 14's with traps in the 90's. The ones I messed around were fully bolted, with Flashpro; I actually talked to both drivers. My car was only trapping 99.xx when I ran into the first one, one passenger each and 100.xx on the second one (2 to 1 passengers in my favor). Driver skill wasn't a factor in that we did lots of runs in various gears. I would pull before shifting even became an issue. They'd both jump ok initially, and I thought they'd have more, but then I'd start to walk out steadily. It is what it is I guess.

Sonnick

An Si will never run 13.8 stock lol, even on slicks. I have a hard time believing your 13.79 @102 without FlashPro. I have slips, check the 1/4 mile thread in this section.

Where are you located? My runs we're at Island as well on a humid night. I trapped 101.x-102 consistently. Sadly only a 14.00 @102 with a 2.32 60' thanks to 45psi front tires. DA corrected 13.86 @103. If you still had your Si I'd enjoy running you. Your view of the 6-6 would change, I promise

Sonnick

These are assuming you are on street tires. 13.79 @102 is totally believable if you were on a smaller than stock diameter slick or DR. But on stock tires with no tune it's very doubtful. I've seen the 13.5 but it was on slicks so that's believable. I think that was udumkid on 8th. I'm on 8th civic as well, 3.slow6mt.

TypeYes

I just estimated from memory that it was 500 lbs. The curb weight I found for 7th gen Accord V6 coupe is 3303 lbs (not 3260?). My car's curb weight was 2886...so not 500 lbs but 417 lbs is still a big difference, especially up top where the Accord falls on it's face compared to the Si.

You're correct on the p/w ratio though. IDK where the hell I messed up my figures.

Nonetheless, p/w isn't everything. Gearing means A LOT and the gears in the Si allowed me to dust many cars with much better p/w ratios than both the Si and Accord V6.

Like I said, I saw the video. I don't know how believeable it is, but it's an uncut video in which they show the engine bay before the run (show it has no I/H/E and before FP), then they show the run and then they show the engine bay after the run. I'm sure you've seen it if you are on 8th. That's where I originally saw it.

I'm pretty sure your view of my Si would change if I still had it . Sucks we'll never know...now I just enjoy cruising low and slow.

I have NO REASON to lie about my runs, or about beating a 6-6 with very similar (or arguably better) mods to you. My mother's 6-6 Accord just sits in the driveway at my dad's house (she passed away in October). I LOVE that car and it's part of the reason I got a bigger car...my TL. I have lots of respect for the car and it's engine (I got pulled hard by a modded one when I was still stock)...hell I just love Hondas lol. My last three cars were Hondas (a '91 Accord EX, a '94 Accord EX and the '08 Si).

Oh...I've lived within 5-10 minutes of Island all of my life. I grew up hearing the cars run every weekend from my house and when I moved out, I was still within 10 minutes.

PS-I believe your times with the Accord. I've seen them run before. I won't even bother to find your slips because I'm too lazy lol

Regardless, this will probably be my last post on A-zine. You people act the same as people on 8th... it's not a compliment.

F23A4

Sounds like a showdown @ Island just may be in order, seeing as a few of us are local. (If I pull the trigger on a new 5.0, I just may come out of retirement.)

Yonkersracing

He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the point of that post was that...no stock TL-S 5AT or whatever he was referring to has posted a 13 second run and there have been Si's and RSX-S's with less mods that I/RH/E/T that have gone 13s so calling it a drivers race is only really possible when the Si is running slower than the best it could possibly do.

Yonkersracing

That time is definitely possible, especially at Island. Remember the Si comes stock with the RBC and a LSD so when you add I/RH/E it's a little bit stronger than the Type S w/o an upgraded manifold. I've seen RSX-S traps 100+ with bolt ons/no tune as well. It's no common but it happens and I know for a fact it's possible if you know what you are doing.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Well, a driver's race is generally a race where the cars trap within 1 or 2 mph of each other. And going by the laws of averages, most Si's with full bolt ons/tune are in the 14's and under 100 mph if we reference Dragtimes. I hate to be a mag racer, but they generally get times most people can't quite match, and stock, an SI is a 15 flat/94 mph car. I don't see how such massive gains are possible on an N/A 4 cyl with basic bolt ons when most TL's only gain a few tenths and a few mph, sans tune. If I had to put money on a fully bolted/tuned SI vs a stock 5AT Type S, I'd still put my money on the SI, but it wouldn't be a blow out. I'm being analytical here and basing my assumptions off personal experience and internet data, but I'm pretty open minded, so if anyone can throw up some slips/videos, that'd be cool.

Yonkersracing

I don't really disagree with this but the fact remains there are plenty of bolt ons/tune K20's in the 13s where there is not a stock TL-S (to my knowledge, which admittedly is very limited about the J series), that's the only thing that hinders me from calling it a drivers race.

If you don't see how massive gains are possible with a bolt on Si/RSX then you need to do more research on the K20, my friend. I never dyno'd stock but I think it's safe to say I'm easily making 50whp more peak, over stock with more power/torque everywhere and I have 3 bolt ons, an OEM manifold and a tune.

But generally, I agree with you, most people can't pilot a bolt on/tune RSX/Si into the 13's, these people suck at life or modding a car, lol. Seriously though, there's a pretty big difference in bolt ons for these cars, like comparing a SRI to a CAI or shorty header vs. a race header....even not getting the proper size diameter exhaust can be a hindrance on the K series. I've seen people with full bolt ons dyno 30 less whp than me and I realize that all dyno's are different, but I think that I've proven time and time again how quick I am, just need some time slips now.

Edit - Here is my buddies 04 RSX-S w/ full bolt ons and tune, street tires and stock clutch. - His best time of the night was a 13.6 @ 103mph which I believe he did twice. He was running 13.80's all day, and the only time he'd go slower is with a botched launch (2.5+ 60ft) or missed shift. There are a lot of cars that aren't uploaded to Drag Times, but generally I use that system as well, mostly though for stock cars.

Sonnick

Relax compadre, no need to get heated (although my apologies for seeming that way as well). The Accord definitely doesn't fall on its face up top...albeit I am modded of course.



Not sure how you can say your buddy had better mods than I do considering you dont know my mods

I have no hate on the Si trust me. I am a Honda guy as well and am a big fan of the K series motor. Can't say I don't have a soft spot for the J series though Glad you are happy with your Type S.
I know your K knowledge is greater than mine, but most bolt on & tuned Si's that I've seen put down less power than the RSX, even with the RBC manifold. LSD does play a part in the launch, yea true. But the 102 trap is what surprised me. Not to say I'm fast, but I just can't see an untuned Si keeping up with me in any roll run, especially in 3rd-4th. Obviously my launching at the track has been subpar, so I can't argue there.

Btw, the 740 went to Island and ran almost a half second worse and lost 4mph than Etown. Both were hot days too. Seemed strange to me because I'm pretty sure Island is a little bit faster than Etown.

Yonkersracing

I can't say about the first comment because I only personally know one person with an Si and he hasn't been pro-tuned yet. I would say however that right now if you were to run him, you would beat him and his mods are I/RH/E/FP Base Map. I would say he is a little faster than Bob Ross's B18c5 EG, so it's probably a 101MPH car and that's a 4 door with no weight reduction. Before his FP Base Map I believe he went to the track and ran 14.2 @ 99mph, the EG has went 99-100mph at Island pretty consistently so I think 101 is possible for the Si w/ just a basemap, but I think you would still pull him off a 40 punch. The 4 door Si is pretty heavy too, my buddies weighed 3200lbs w/ him in it when he was at E-Town, I don't doubt for a second that my car with me in it is still under 3000lbs.


Hahaha that is classic, I swear, that dude doesn't know his a$$ from his elbow when it comes to modding a car. I wish he wouldn't put that 9psi pulley on yet, so I could have a shot at besting his Blown V8's ET, but he needs all the help he can get. Island is faster than E-Town in all of my experiences, NA cars, nitrous cars, FI cars...everyone I know has gone faster at Island, so if he went slower I am sure it was due to the weather.

LOL @ 400+whp = 102mph traps

dgsedan06

Hey guys this is a spur of the moment thing. My neighbor just bought a new G37 7AT. Long story short, I'm gonna race him soon. We are gonna race from a dig and then some 40 and 60 rolls. Any advice, comments, suggestions? Please and thank you.

dgsedan06

Oh it's a G37xS sedan...

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

I'd say work on your launch and hope AWD hurts him up top. They're running 330hp to the crank @ 3600lbs ..

Get videos!

dgsedan06

So wikipedia says that my car weighs 3351 lbs which seems a bit low. I'm pretty sure I'm making over 300hp at the crank. If I launch aggressively, he'll get me off the line because Ill just slip through 1st. I can try to do it carefully and get as little wheel-spin as possible. Ill definitely rape him off a roll, hes been in my car and knows this which is why he is pressing for a dig race only. He wants to capitalize on his AWD and my beat tires. lol There will definitely be videos when this goes down...

Sonnick

I think he will get you from both a dig and a roll to be honest. Those G37 sedans are quick regardless of speed. My mom had a G35x HR with the 5AT and it was quick as hell. With 2 more gears and another 30hp...

dgsedan06

Funny that you mentioned the HR G35x... He was leasing one the last time we raced. I beat him at the time with less mods than I have now. We raced from a dig to about 90mph; I was ahead by a little more than a car-length. He wants to win this time around LOL

Sonnick

I think the roll run will be close either way.

That's strange you beat him with less mods considering I'm pretty sure they trap 101-102 bone stock, even the X. Especially surprised you beat him from a dig, my mom's car was a rocket off the line.

dgsedan06

This was his car.

dgsedan06

Sounds good. Hopefully his car isn't broken in yet... HA!