INDY!!! Bridgestone tiretest....

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Old 06-19-2005, 01:12 PM
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INDY!!! Bridgestone tiretest....

can u belive this crap???? 6 cars. at least jordan and manadri might be get some contsructors points lol
Old 06-19-2005, 01:15 PM
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All I can say is that I'm a ferrari supporter and I don't blame the Michelin Teams. Ferrari has been getting screwed by these rules all season cause their tires suck and now Michelin has been fucked by these rules. They're looking out for the safety of their drivers and they don't want to be sued. I've been saying it all along this season and it means even more this time. FUCK MAX MOSLEY. If the tire rules had never been changed you won't allow this to happen. The budgets are still in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Those rules aren't doing shit for Formula 1.
Old 06-19-2005, 01:26 PM
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nice race
Old 06-19-2005, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ajs887
All I can say is that I'm a ferrari supporter and I don't blame the Michelin Teams. Ferrari has been getting screwed by these rules all season cause their tires suck and now Michelin has been fucked by these rules. They're looking out for the safety of their drivers and they don't want to be sued. I've been saying it all along this season and it means even more this time. FUCK MAX MOSLEY. If the tire rules had never been changed you won't allow this to happen. The budgets are still in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Those rules aren't doing shit for Formula 1.

i totally fucking agree with you. this whole thing of changing the fucking rules to slow down the cars and conserve money is bullshit. they will just use that money in some other field in order to improve that some more. the rules should never had changed except for maybe the engine size. but lately formula 1 has become and is complete bullshit. let them invest thier money and go and race. the team with the best equipement and drivers should win. why fuck everything up. end rant. Formula 1 is fucking themselfs over.
Old 06-19-2005, 01:38 PM
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^^^^

Ya this race really sucks. From what i understand, the teams who do not have bridgestones where advised my Michillen not to race unless a change was made to the race track because of the saftey to the drivers would be compramised. My question is since they new that this was the case hours before the race, why they bothered to even go out at the beggining, only to go back into the garage after the warm up lap! Seems like they didnt want to tell the fans that they where gonna see 6 instead of 20 cars race...and one more thing, i cant get any of the F1 links to work on the main site, is this just me? or did F1 shut it down? what a waste.........
Old 06-19-2005, 01:40 PM
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wow what a joke. hope people didn't go to that and pay. It's a shame F1 needs to get their act together. Parity is one thing but not at the cost of safety.
Old 06-19-2005, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ajs887
All I can say is that I'm a ferrari supporter and I don't blame the Michelin Teams. Ferrari has been getting screwed by these rules all season cause their tires suck and now Michelin has been fucked by these rules. They're looking out for the safety of their drivers and they don't want to be sued. I've been saying it all along this season and it means even more this time. FUCK MAX MOSLEY. If the tire rules had never been changed you won't allow this to happen. The budgets are still in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Those rules aren't doing shit for Formula 1.


As much as I'm sad to see an F1 race minimized like this... I can't blame the Michelin teams for not racing, at the same time I can't fault the Bridgestone teams for racing. They came with the right equipment to race with and that's just what you're doing. If anyone is at fault, it's Michelin for not testing their tires well enough to guarantee that they can hold up at Indy.

Also, I hate how some spectators are throwing stuff onto the track, endangering the drivers. Talk about low-lifes...
Old 06-19-2005, 01:46 PM
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What I don't get is were not they aware of this situation during qualifications?
Old 06-19-2005, 01:49 PM
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On top of what I've said already. All these rules were brought about to slow down the cars like making tires last the whole race and different wing settings and yesterday in the fourth practice one of the mclaren's got down into the 1minute 10seconds range which was the first time ever for any team at Indy. So much for slowing down the cars. Just look at how this stupid fucking tire rule screwed over Kimi. I support ferrari myself but I don't like races being determined by rules.
Old 06-19-2005, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 1killercls
What I don't get is were not they aware of this situation during qualifications?
They were, after Raulph Schumachers crash Micheilin sent a letter to F1 with the problem, but they said they would not sanction the race with the addition of a chicain. But what i dont understand is why they would evn start it with a full grid.


and as i write this michael shumacher just shoved barichello off the road. hahaha. wat a fucked up race. he better get black flagged.....

Last edited by stangg172004; 06-19-2005 at 02:11 PM.
Old 06-19-2005, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapata
wow what a joke. hope people didn't go to that and pay.
Our own is in Indy today.
Old 06-19-2005, 02:48 PM
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Yay! MS wins!




Though the race was shite. Let's see what Max decides to do after today. Stupid tire rule backfires like a mofo.
Old 06-19-2005, 02:55 PM
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Ferrari win six-car US Grand Prix

Ferrari win six-car US Grand Prix
Red one-two and a Jordan podium as Michelin withdraw


Just six cars took the start at Indianapolis this afternoon after the Michelin teams stood by their threat not to race without an additional chicane ahead of the high-speed Turn 13.

Michelin could not guarantee the safety of their tyres through this corner over a race distance, so instructed their teams not to compete if the track layout was not changed to slow the cars.

The FIA refused the request for a chicane, pointing out several other options available to Michelin. The Michelin teams declined these and jointly decided they would race on the tyres they used in qualifying, but only if the chicane was inserted.

It wasn't. As a result, all cars took to the grid, but the Michelin cars all peeled in at the end of the formation lap, leaving only the Ferraris, Minardis and Jordans to start. Jordan and Minardi had been expected to stand by the Michelin teams.

Ferrari duly won the race, with Michael Schumacher leading until the first pit stops. He lost his lead to team mate Rubens Barrichello for his second stint, but narrowly regained it after emerging just ahead of the Brazilian after his second stop.

Tiago Monteiro clinched his first Formula One podium for Jordan in third, with team mate Narain Karthikeyan fourth. The Minardis of Christijan Albers and Patrick Friesacher completed the finishers.

A joint press release from Michelin and their teams is expected shortly, expressing their regret at having to pull out of the race and explaining their decision.

The Michelin withdrawal followed two tyre failures for Toyota on Friday, one of which led to Ralf Schumacher crashing heavily in Turn 13.
from f1.com
Old 06-19-2005, 03:05 PM
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I'm very happy I wasn't able to go this year... I would have driven 14 hours to see a 6 car race and then another 14 hours driving back...

Shitty race and the worse is that the 2 Ferrari almost took themselves out of the race... What was running through their mind????
Old 06-19-2005, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by NSX-Tuner
As much as I'm sad to see an F1 race minimized like this... I can't blame the Michelin teams for not racing, at the same time I can't fault the Bridgestone teams for racing. They came with the right equipment to race with and that's just what you're doing. If anyone is at fault, it's Michelin for not testing their tires well enough to guarantee that they can hold up at Indy.
I don't blame the Michelin teams for not racing. But to blame the FIA for what happend is ridiculous. The rules are the same for everyone and have been in place since the beginning of the season. Michelin fucked up didn't build a tire that was up to the task. Period. They are the ones that should be embarrased, not the FIA. The pinnicle of motorsports, eh?

BTW - I'll laugh my ass off if there's a class action lawsuit filed by the ticket holders.
Old 06-19-2005, 04:15 PM
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Actually Billiam the FIA is to blame for putting these rules into place. All of these rules were put in, in the name of safety and when Safety is taken into account Michelin gets fucked. If some Michelin driver got killed or severely injured Michelin would get the blame for letting their teams going out on those tires.
Old 06-19-2005, 05:34 PM
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In 2008 they are thinking of going back to slicks, we will know by the end of this year if it is true.
Old 06-19-2005, 08:14 PM
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US grand prix F1 update:

The US Grand Prix began to go wrong when all of the 14 Michelin runners came into the pits at the end of the green flag lap, leaving only Michael Schumacher on ‘pole position’ from Ferrari team mate Rubens Barrichello, the two Jordans of Tiago Monteiro and Narain Karthikeyan, and the two Minardis of Christijan Albers and Patrick Friesacher in front of the shocked 130,000 crowd.

After Ralf Schumacher’s left rear tyre failure on Friday afternoon, Michelin advised their runners that they could not guarantee their tyres for the race. Several ideas were mooted and the Michelin teams agreed to let the Bridgestone runners start ahead of them on the grid and to forego any championship points provided a chicane was erected in Turn 13.

However, the FIA had already stated that changing the track layout was not an option, informing Michelin that their teams could either use their existing tyres and run more slowly through 13, make tyre changes on safety grounds if necessary, or they could start with new tyres and risk being penalised for breaking the regulations.

At the start of the six-car race, Schumacher duly jumped ahead of Barrichello, with Monteiro third and Albers momentarily ousting Karthikeyan for fourth before the Jordan driver asserted himself.

Barrichello made the first of two stops on lap 24, but Schumacher’s stop a lap later occupied 16.8s as a left rear tyre had been damaged by a bottle thrown on to the track by an irate spectator and had to be changed. Barrichello thus led and kept the initiative until his next stop on lap 49.

Again Schumacher stopped a lap later, but this time he was at the end of the pit lane exit, where it feeds into Turn 1, at the very moment that Barrichello arrived there. The Brazilian was obliged to run off the road to avoid a collision, and after that the result was sealed.

Monteiro ran third throughout, with Karthikeyan, Albers and three-stopping Friesacher spread out.

Since nobody else went far enough to be classified, they were the only points scorers, and the race matched the 1961 Dutch Grand Prix as the only one in which all starters have finished.

Schumacher’s 10 point haul brings him up to third, behind Fernando Alonso on 59, and Kimi Raikkonen on 37. Barrichello moves to fourth, ahead of Jarno Trulli’s 27, with 29. Ferrari rise to joint second in the team standings on 63 points.
Source: F1.com
Old 06-19-2005, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ajs887
Actually Billiam the FIA is to blame for putting these rules into place. All of these rules were put in, in the name of safety and when Safety is taken into account Michelin gets fucked. If some Michelin driver got killed or severely injured Michelin would get the blame for letting their teams going out on those tires.
ajs887: Is the FIA building Michelin's tires now? They've been to the track for the last 4 years. They know how to build a fucking tire. Hell the tires this morning and all last night at LeMans were lasting for 50 laps! Bridgestone had ZERO problem building a tire for this race - at one point on the radio Ferrari told MS his tire was good for 100 laps.

MICHELIN ROCKS!

I agree with you the one race tire rule is horrible, but to blame the FIA when a MAJOR participant cannot design and build a product that adheres to the rules is silly. Oops we fucked up help us please! No?! Well tough we're taking our rubber and going home.
Old 06-19-2005, 11:07 PM
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money and saftey my ass. any time you expect a race team to use 1 tire all race weekend thats not SAFETY!!!!!!!!!!!! I and we the fans got screwed buy the STUPID rules that the FIA, Max Mosley AND Bernie have implimented this year. they all need to get their heads out of their Asses and start doing the right thing
Old 06-19-2005, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
I and we the fans got screwed buy the STUPID rules that the FIA, Max Mosley AND Bernie have implimented this year. they all need to get their heads out of their Asses and start doing the right thing
Please explain how you can feel this when Bridgestone built a tire to the FIA's rules that lasted without any issue. You got screwed by Michelin, not the FIA.
Old 06-19-2005, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Billiam
Please explain how you can feel this when Bridgestone built a tire to the FIA's rules that lasted without any issue. You got screwed by Michelin, not the FIA.


My thoughts exactly.
Old 06-20-2005, 09:34 AM
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So after reading all this and the articles on yahoo news, I'm glad I missed the actual race. I was supposed to go up to Indy for the race, but changed my plans. This kind of thing is why F1 will continue to lose fans in the US.
Old 06-20-2005, 01:01 PM
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Michelin teams summoned by FIA

The FIA has ordered the seven Michelin teams to appear at a hearing of its World Motor Sport Council on Wednesday June 29 following their controversial withdrawal from the US Grand Prix.

The summons follows a statement issued by Formula One racing’s governing body earlier on Monday, in which it outlines its position on Michelin's decision to pull out of the race. The statement reads:

"Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

"At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

"The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that "tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances".

"A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

"The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

"What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

"It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules."
source: F1.com
Old 06-20-2005, 02:25 PM
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.....a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.
I tend to think that that was what Michelin did. The teams brought the wrong equipment and requested a rule change because of this? That's . If the teams brought the wrong equipment to a race, then work around it. In this case, change the suspension setup to accommodate the tires (or increase tire pressures as Michelin suggested during the practices).

Also, wasn't it that only 2 cars had tire failures during the practices? And both of them were Toyotas. Perhaps Toyota had the "bad" suspension setup in Ralf's and Zonta's cars? What other Michelin teams experienced this problem?
Old 06-20-2005, 02:54 PM
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What if the Michelin teams went ahead and raced yesterday. It is highly likely that the race result may have been the same with all the Bridgestone runners finishing in the same order as they did yesterday. It would have certainly been a much more interesting race but with a similar outcome (barring any bad crashes). Just a thought...

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Old 06-20-2005, 03:09 PM
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Has anyone talked about the Firestone connection in all of this? Firestone supplies the Indy cars, Firestone-Bridgestone is essentially one company. Firestone knows what will run on the "newly shaved" Indy surface and undoubtly helped Bridgestone come up with the right tire this time. It's all in the banking of turn 13 and Michelin just wasn't strong enough to hold up. Michelin did a CYA on this one and unfortunatly the teams bailed on it even though qualifying was smooth. Michelin even got the pole for crying out loud.
Old 06-20-2005, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by davo-cls
Has anyone talked about the Firestone connection in all of this? Firestone supplies the Indy cars, Firestone-Bridgestone is essentially one company. Firestone knows what will run on the "newly shaved" Indy surface and undoubtly helped Bridgestone come up with the right tire this time. It's all in the banking of turn 13 and Michelin just wasn't strong enough to hold up. Michelin did a CYA on this one and unfortunatly the teams bailed on it even though qualifying was smooth. Michelin even got the pole for crying out loud.
What does Firestone have to do with anything? If they relayed data to Bridgestone, good that should happen. That's what R&D is all about.

Michelin had a solution that worked but would make them slower then the rest of the field. Instead of giving the fans a show, they threw a hissy fit, took their toys and went home.
Old 06-20-2005, 03:38 PM
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What happened at Indy was a joke...and fans got screwed. No wonder F1 has such a "smaller" following in the world's biggest market known as North America.
Old 06-20-2005, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
What does Firestone have to do with anything? If they relayed data to Bridgestone, good that should happen. That's what R&D is all about.


If any tire manufacturer is going to compete in F1, then they had better damn well have a sufficient engineering core to develop a tires that are safe for every circuit in the series. If then don't, then they should either suck it up and own up to their mistakes or get out of the series. There's no excuse for "crying foul" in this situation.

BTW - If I ran the History Channel, this might be a candidate for a future episode of Engineering Disasters. I know it's not really spectacular enough, but from a corporate perspective it definitely qualifies!
Old 06-20-2005, 04:57 PM
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Interesting read... (well, at least I thought so... )

From "http://www.ferrariworld.com/FWorld/fw/index.jsp"... "Todt: We were never asked about that"...







Old 06-20-2005, 05:01 PM
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My wife and I just got home from the race. All I can say is it sucked. We spent a shit load on air, rooms, tickets, food, and merchandise BEFORE the debacle.

As far as safety goes, I sure hope any board members who attended the race had more character than to purposely throw shit at the cars during the "race" specifically the Ferrari's. That was regoddamndickulous.

Oh well, maybe everyone will get it sorted out. We stayed for the entire race and cheered the cars racing while getting cursed at, flipped off, and "booed." I agree it was not much of a race, but this was our first F1 race. We have been getting up at the crack of f-ing dawn forever, and we were NOT leaving when we finally got to see the machines in person.

Anyway, we had got the see ALL (we think) of the pristine Indiana State Troopers. We even stayed long enough to see the canine units and the riot gear. Overall, it was an empty trip but we did see several of the drivers up close and snagged some autographs as well.

Maybe see them in Long Beach next year after some major track upgrades .... ??

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Old 06-20-2005, 05:01 PM
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Nascar > F1

Old 06-20-2005, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by joerockt
Nascar > F1

yeah if ovals are you thang, and you make decent left hand turns ... eh ?
Old 06-20-2005, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Billiam
Please explain how you can feel this when Bridgestone built a tire to the FIA's rules that lasted without any issue. You got screwed by Michelin, not the FIA.
we got screwed by the stupid rules! PERIOD! they want to cut costs and improve saftey? having 1 tire for qualification and race IS NOT safe! nor does it cut costs.
Old 06-20-2005, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by gsclifton
yeah if ovals are you thang, and you make decent left hand turns ... eh ?
With the best of em bitch.
Old 06-20-2005, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gsclifton
My wife and I just got home from the race. All I can say is it sucked. We spent a shit load on air, rooms, tickets, food, and merchandise BEFORE the debacle.

As far as safety goes, I sure hope any board members who attended the race had more character than to purposely throw shit at the cars during the "race" specifically the Ferrari's. That was regoddamndickulous.

Oh well, maybe everyone will get it sorted out. We stayed for the entire race and cheered the cars racing while getting cursed at, flipped off, and "booed." I agree it was not much of a race, but this was our first F1 race. We have been getting up at the crack of f-ing dawn forever, and we were NOT leaving when we finally got to see the machines in person.

Anyway, we had got the see ALL (we think) of the pristine Indiana State Troopers. We even stayed long enough to see the canine units and the riot gear. Overall, it was an empty trip but we did see several of the drivers up close and snagged some autographs as well.

Maybe see them in Long Beach next year after some major track upgrades .... ??
that was really lame... even in my albeit drunken stupor, attributable to a few strategically consumed Foster's oilcans, NEVER EVER in a million years would the thought of throwing anything on the track ever cross my mind... the people who did that are genetically stupid.

btw I was glad I had the drinks, I didn't even know what was going on until like lap 10 LOL... and the rest of the day didn't even matter, I just kept drinking.

ok bye

rrr
Old 06-20-2005, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by srika
that was really lame... even in my albeit drunken stupor, attributable to a few strategically consumed Foster's oilcans, NEVER EVER in a million years would the thought of throwing anything on the track ever cross my mind... the people who did that are genetically stupid.

btw I was glad I had the drinks, I didn't even know what was going on until like lap 10 LOL... and the rest of the day didn't even matter, I just kept drinking.

ok bye

rrr
True, at $6 per Fosters, they made some coin on that alone .... but I am not sure there was enough beer on hand to prepare the fans (me included) for the ensuing fiasco.
Old 06-20-2005, 07:09 PM
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I know... maybe I am just trying to make myself feel better.

Old 06-20-2005, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MSZ
Our own is in Indy today.
So was and believe me, the look on the av's face didn't portray accurately, how fucking pissed I was.


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