Formula One: 2021 Season News and Discussion Thread
12-12-2021, 05:29 PM
#1201
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and who may have knocked Latiffi off the track? Schumacher that's who!
12-12-2021, 06:23 PM
#1202
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12-13-2021, 09:36 AM
#1203
Moderator
https://www.grandprix.com/news/botta...n-tuesday.html
Valtteri Bottas has confirmed rumours that he will get his first taste of life in an Alfa Romeo cockpit within days.
The Finn has lost his Mercedes seat to George Russell, meaning that Sunday's 2021 finale in Abu Dhabi is his last race after a five-year stint with the reigning champions.
"I'm trying to approach it normally," Bottas, 32, told Iltalehti newspaper in Abu Dhabi.
"But even before qualifying I felt 'This is my last one with the team'. In the car, though, I don't think about it at all.
"Maybe after the race the emotions will come up," Bottas said.
But after that, Bottas insists that his full focus will turn immediately to his next challenge - leading the Alfa Romeo team from the cockpit.
"Already a couple of months ago I did a little bit of work with Alfa for next year's car. In the simulator, I could feel a little less downforce," he told the Finnish publication.
"On Tuesday I will do a tyre test with Alfa Romeo," he revealed.
It was previously not known whether Mercedes would release Bottas for the post-Abu Dhabi test, as his contract almost certainly runs until December 31.
Tuesday will therefore be his last blast in the current generation of Formula 1 cars, before the all-new regulations for 2022 and beyond take effect.
"These cars have been fun," said Bottas, "but we'll see if we can follow and pass more easily next year. Hopefully yes."
The Finn has lost his Mercedes seat to George Russell, meaning that Sunday's 2021 finale in Abu Dhabi is his last race after a five-year stint with the reigning champions.
"I'm trying to approach it normally," Bottas, 32, told Iltalehti newspaper in Abu Dhabi.
"But even before qualifying I felt 'This is my last one with the team'. In the car, though, I don't think about it at all.
"Maybe after the race the emotions will come up," Bottas said.
But after that, Bottas insists that his full focus will turn immediately to his next challenge - leading the Alfa Romeo team from the cockpit.
"Already a couple of months ago I did a little bit of work with Alfa for next year's car. In the simulator, I could feel a little less downforce," he told the Finnish publication.
"On Tuesday I will do a tyre test with Alfa Romeo," he revealed.
It was previously not known whether Mercedes would release Bottas for the post-Abu Dhabi test, as his contract almost certainly runs until December 31.
Tuesday will therefore be his last blast in the current generation of Formula 1 cars, before the all-new regulations for 2022 and beyond take effect.
"These cars have been fun," said Bottas, "but we'll see if we can follow and pass more easily next year. Hopefully yes."
12-13-2021, 09:37 AM
#1204
Senior Moderator
12-13-2021, 12:30 PM
#1205
Senior Moderator
As a LH fan(boi), have to give it to Max on his race by race results. If it wasnt for three DNFs, he probably could have run off with the WDC, negating yesterday's FIA cluster f-ckery and the asterisk now placed next to 21 WDC (AFAIC)!
https://www.skysports.com/f1/drivers...tappen/results
https://www.skysports.com/f1/drivers...tappen/results
12-13-2021, 12:33 PM
#1206
Moderator
Max had a fantastic season & Checo really came alive in the 2nd half.
Either Silverstone or Monza without a DNF would've likely rendered yesterday moot.
12-13-2021, 12:36 PM
#1207
Senior Moderator
12-13-2021, 01:40 PM
#1208
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Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
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Checo's defense of LH was fantastic yesterday. By far some of his best if not best driving of the year.
12-13-2021, 03:37 PM
#1209
Checo's only issue is his consistency. He can definitely fight & drive if in a position, but his Qualifying performance at times really hampers him. Will have to watch next year and see if he struggles at the same tracks next season.
12-13-2021, 03:41 PM
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His defense lasted a lap and a half, once past, LH started pulling a gap again to Max. Checo's defense made little impact as LH has an 11 second lead at the last safety car.
12-13-2021, 04:32 PM
#1211
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Very amazing feat!!
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12-13-2021, 06:09 PM
#1212
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WATCH: Daniel Ricciardo’s Post-Race Radio Sums Up the Farce F1 Created in Abu Dhabi
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F23A4 (12-13-2021)
12-13-2021, 07:44 PM
#1213
There has to be a few drivers questioning, "Fuck, what if I get put into that situation?"
12-14-2021, 08:34 AM
#1214
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Was waiting for emotions and dusts to settle before putting my comments up. [Full disclosure, I hate Mercedes, Wolff, Hamilton. 
And I've been a big fan of RBR for 15 years, so I'm over the moon with the Abu Dhabi GP.] So these comments are really more of a macro opinion on root cause.
1. I know people are being hard on Massi, but IMO, he's just doing what he can with what he's given. Massi does not control the stewards decisions, although he does have control of safety car decisions. Both the safety car decisions and penalty rulings are always controversial, because of inconsistencies with judgements. This ultimately comes down to the responsibility of the F1 Sporting Director, who came into this position without ever coming up with a consistent rulebook. And who is the F1 Sporting Director? Ross Brawn! Ross has got to go.
2. I've railed time and again on this board over the years about very poor rulings and inconsistent rulings to the point that I no longer even post anything because I've pretty much given up. Here are some of my previous complaints:
- Why is it sometimes VSC and sometimes SC? The decisions always seem arbitrary. This makes a huge impact on race strategy. Just stick to one method so there is no controversy.
- Under VSC, drivers are supposed to maintain a consistent gap. This is subjective. Make the drivers press something like a pit lane limiter so it guarantees exact gaps.
- What is allowed as passing etiquette is never consistent.
-I hate it when a driver (A) has a hard time passing a car (B) in front, so A makes an extremely questionable move such as going off track to make the pass. Then A pulls away from B. 5 laps later, the race stewards hands A a 5 second penalty for the infraction, but he's now +10 seconds ahead of B! How is that right?
3. I still have a huge problem with things added to F1 purely to spice up the show. This includes US style full course cautions, allowing lap cars to unlap themselves during FCC, DRS (make the drivers work for it), sprint races, etc. All of this does nothing to me.
4. That pass by Verstappen on Hamilton on the first lap in Abu Dhabi was pure class. And this goes into what is racing all about. If a driver can defend their position by simply going off track, than this is a direct contradiction of why we even race. The correct procedure is that Hamilton should have at a minimum been forced to give up the position. [
This opinion goes back to the first race that I ever went to. The 1993 Detroit Grand Prix. In that race, Unser was side by side to Sullivan fighting for the lead in the final few laps. However, Unser ran over an orange cone with one wheel which denoted track limits. As a result, he received a stop-and-go penalty. It was extremely harsh, but the ruling was based on the interpretation that the orange cone represented a virtual wall. So by hitting the cone, you ran into a wall, so you got a very heavy penalty.] Some might argue that Hamilton had to go off track to avoid taking both cars off, but that is the whole point of racing isn't it. You make the hard pass, but success is not guaranteed.
So what's the solution? F1 should fire Ross Brawn and hire F-C. I'll fix things.
And I've been a big fan of RBR for 15 years, so I'm over the moon with the Abu Dhabi GP.] So these comments are really more of a macro opinion on root cause.1. I know people are being hard on Massi, but IMO, he's just doing what he can with what he's given. Massi does not control the stewards decisions, although he does have control of safety car decisions. Both the safety car decisions and penalty rulings are always controversial, because of inconsistencies with judgements. This ultimately comes down to the responsibility of the F1 Sporting Director, who came into this position without ever coming up with a consistent rulebook. And who is the F1 Sporting Director? Ross Brawn! Ross has got to go.
2. I've railed time and again on this board over the years about very poor rulings and inconsistent rulings to the point that I no longer even post anything because I've pretty much given up. Here are some of my previous complaints:
- Why is it sometimes VSC and sometimes SC? The decisions always seem arbitrary. This makes a huge impact on race strategy. Just stick to one method so there is no controversy.
- Under VSC, drivers are supposed to maintain a consistent gap. This is subjective. Make the drivers press something like a pit lane limiter so it guarantees exact gaps.
- What is allowed as passing etiquette is never consistent.
-I hate it when a driver (A) has a hard time passing a car (B) in front, so A makes an extremely questionable move such as going off track to make the pass. Then A pulls away from B. 5 laps later, the race stewards hands A a 5 second penalty for the infraction, but he's now +10 seconds ahead of B! How is that right?
3. I still have a huge problem with things added to F1 purely to spice up the show. This includes US style full course cautions, allowing lap cars to unlap themselves during FCC, DRS (make the drivers work for it), sprint races, etc. All of this does nothing to me.
4. That pass by Verstappen on Hamilton on the first lap in Abu Dhabi was pure class. And this goes into what is racing all about. If a driver can defend their position by simply going off track, than this is a direct contradiction of why we even race. The correct procedure is that Hamilton should have at a minimum been forced to give up the position. [
This opinion goes back to the first race that I ever went to. The 1993 Detroit Grand Prix. In that race, Unser was side by side to Sullivan fighting for the lead in the final few laps. However, Unser ran over an orange cone with one wheel which denoted track limits. As a result, he received a stop-and-go penalty. It was extremely harsh, but the ruling was based on the interpretation that the orange cone represented a virtual wall. So by hitting the cone, you ran into a wall, so you got a very heavy penalty.] Some might argue that Hamilton had to go off track to avoid taking both cars off, but that is the whole point of racing isn't it. You make the hard pass, but success is not guaranteed.So what's the solution? F1 should fire Ross Brawn and hire F-C. I'll fix things.
Last edited by F-C; 12-14-2021 at 08:37 AM.
12-14-2021, 08:40 AM
#1215
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
RBR
Wolff
Mercedes
12-14-2021, 09:06 AM
#1216
Senior Moderator
...so then you must be furious that Mercedes secured their 8th straight; unless it's more about LH44 losing. 
12-14-2021, 09:17 AM
#1217
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
From a fairness standpoint, it also makes sense. It's been up and down, but Mercedes edges Red Bull from a car performance standpoint over the course of the year. While Verstappen has been the better driver compared to Hamilton.
12-14-2021, 10:05 AM
#1218
Senior Moderator
Fair enough. I feel likewise, just substitute Hamilton/Mercedes with Verstappen/RBR. Got a little tired of some sizing up MV as one of the GOAT when he'd yet to win a championship. (Thinking it was less to do with HAM's personality than with another factor.)
This was the first season where he actually impressed me...from time to time that is.
This was the first season where he actually impressed me...from time to time that is.
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12-14-2021, 10:34 AM
#1219
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
12-14-2021, 10:46 AM
#1220
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Stupid Honda
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civicdrivr (12-14-2021)
12-14-2021, 10:52 AM
#1221
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12-14-2021, 10:54 AM
#1222
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This will help with the BS calls made during a race hopefully
Formula 1 to stop team bosses contacting FIA mid-race
https://www.planetf1.com/news/ross-b...-race-contact/
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civicdrivr (12-14-2021)
12-14-2021, 11:18 AM
#1223
Senior Moderator
In reading above, got distracted with this article:
Is 2021 title defeat the beginning of the end for Hamilton?
https://www.planetf1.com/features/is...-for-hamilton/
Is 2021 title defeat the beginning of the end for Hamilton?
https://www.planetf1.com/features/is...-for-hamilton/
12-14-2021, 12:57 PM
#1224
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Didn't read the article. Regardless of who won this year, we are going in a potential seismic shift.
(Completely new technical regulations) + (cost cap) = (Uncertainty)
(Completely new technical regulations) + (cost cap) = (Uncertainty)
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12-14-2021, 02:54 PM
#1225
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12-14-2021, 03:06 PM
#1226
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Thread Starter
This whole year has been one controversy after another. I haven't seen anyone who has said that Verstappen didn't deserve the championship. Just because it ended in yet another controversy doesn't change anything.Besides, we tend to think of this purely as a human struggle. However, unlike other sports, motor racing is ultimately an engineering contest. It's not like a driver can say that he's going to "will" or "train" himself to improve next year or to win a race. The driver input to the overall outcome is only around 10%, whereas the other 90% is the car performance and engineering support. (I know we've had this discussion here before and others don't agree.
)Anyway, next year's result will be how good did teams design the all new cars with the new rules, how teams maximize their cost cap with the right resources, and even how RBR integrates the Honda engine program, before it comes down to which team has the better drivers.
12-14-2021, 05:10 PM
#1227
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Let's face it: If Hamilton was in Max's place and won the WDC that is what everyone would expect. Why is it different when Max capitalizes on Masi's fuck up? It's not, Max did what any F1 driver would do given the opportunity. At least RBR didn't win the Constructor's too, a very rare occurrence in the last 30 years IIRC.
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12-14-2021, 07:27 PM
#1228
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Thread Starter
There have been many bad calls that went against Verstappen this year. If this was football, someone with too much time on their hands would go through the whole season and compile a list of bad calls against Verstappen and against Hamilton.
<-Don't have the time nor do I care at this point.
<-Don't have the time nor do I care at this point.
12-15-2021, 08:22 AM
#1229
Community Architect
robb m.
robb m.
I'm going to jump in with my thoughts. I've watched the sport for 41 years, and this was the best season I can recall, and the way it ended was IMO not so controversial.
Motor racing is all about who crosses the line first at the end, regardless of what events take place within the race. Car failures, crashes, yellow flags, safety cars etc all notwithstanding, all that matters is who crosses first on the day.
The way I read and interpret the safety car rules, the Director can make the choice to remove cars who may interfere with the leaders but they do not have to unlap the entire field. So, the decision to allow them to race the last lap was in fact accurate and within the scope of the rules.
Further to that, and something none of you have picked up on or commented about is the simple ALL IN approach that RedBull took towards things. They took every risk imaginable, and their efforts were rewarded. Did they get unbelievably lucky that Latifi crashed where and when he did? Absolutely. I've seen some people suggest a Red Flag should have been thrown to 'preserve the race', however Masi said after Kimi's crash in practice that the same thing would not bring out a Red Flag in the race. Red Flags are for safety, not for the purpose of enhancing the race. However, RedBulls forethought goes deeper still.
RedBull were so intent on winning the WDC for Max, their number 1, they completely abandoned all shot at the Constructors money. Let's all pause and consider that for a second. We are talking giving up many tens of millions of dollars here, all to give Max a better shot. How did they do this you ask? They under fuelled Checo by seven laps. No wonder he was so competitive for that lap and a half with Lewis, and this is also why he was retired from the race. He didn't have fuel onboard to finish. I would argue night and day that his lap in front of Lewis is what enabled Max to win. Without that, even with the end of race SC, Max doesn't win.
RedBull went 1000% behind their number one at the cost of millions of dollars to themselves. MB did not commit to their number 1 in remotely the same way.
RedBull took the risks and things worked out so they were rewarded. MB played it Conservative and lost because of it. First lap shenanigans completely notwithstanding. That was a clean pass any way I look at it.
Motor racing is all about who crosses the line first at the end, regardless of what events take place within the race. Car failures, crashes, yellow flags, safety cars etc all notwithstanding, all that matters is who crosses first on the day.
The way I read and interpret the safety car rules, the Director can make the choice to remove cars who may interfere with the leaders but they do not have to unlap the entire field. So, the decision to allow them to race the last lap was in fact accurate and within the scope of the rules.
Further to that, and something none of you have picked up on or commented about is the simple ALL IN approach that RedBull took towards things. They took every risk imaginable, and their efforts were rewarded. Did they get unbelievably lucky that Latifi crashed where and when he did? Absolutely. I've seen some people suggest a Red Flag should have been thrown to 'preserve the race', however Masi said after Kimi's crash in practice that the same thing would not bring out a Red Flag in the race. Red Flags are for safety, not for the purpose of enhancing the race. However, RedBulls forethought goes deeper still.
RedBull were so intent on winning the WDC for Max, their number 1, they completely abandoned all shot at the Constructors money. Let's all pause and consider that for a second. We are talking giving up many tens of millions of dollars here, all to give Max a better shot. How did they do this you ask? They under fuelled Checo by seven laps. No wonder he was so competitive for that lap and a half with Lewis, and this is also why he was retired from the race. He didn't have fuel onboard to finish. I would argue night and day that his lap in front of Lewis is what enabled Max to win. Without that, even with the end of race SC, Max doesn't win.
RedBull went 1000% behind their number one at the cost of millions of dollars to themselves. MB did not commit to their number 1 in remotely the same way.
RedBull took the risks and things worked out so they were rewarded. MB played it Conservative and lost because of it. First lap shenanigans completely notwithstanding. That was a clean pass any way I look at it.
12-15-2021, 09:03 AM
#1230
AZ Community Team
I'm going to jump in with my thoughts. I've watched the sport for 41 years, and this was the best season I can recall, and the way it ended was IMO not so controversial.
Motor racing is all about who crosses the line first at the end, regardless of what events take place within the race. Car failures, crashes, yellow flags, safety cars etc all notwithstanding, all that matters is who crosses first on the day.
The way I read and interpret the safety car rules, the Director can make the choice to remove cars who may interfere with the leaders but they do not have to unlap the entire field. So, the decision to allow them to race the last lap was in fact accurate and within the scope of the rules.
Further to that, and something none of you have picked up on or commented about is the simple ALL IN approach that RedBull took towards things. They took every risk imaginable, and their efforts were rewarded. Did they get unbelievably lucky that Latifi crashed where and when he did? Absolutely. I've seen some people suggest a Red Flag should have been thrown to 'preserve the race', however Masi said after Kimi's crash in practice that the same thing would not bring out a Red Flag in the race. Red Flags are for safety, not for the purpose of enhancing the race. However, RedBulls forethought goes deeper still.
RedBull were so intent on winning the WDC for Max, their number 1, they completely abandoned all shot at the Constructors money. Let's all pause and consider that for a second. We are talking giving up many tens of millions of dollars here, all to give Max a better shot. How did they do this you ask? They under fuelled Checo by seven laps. No wonder he was so competitive for that lap and a half with Lewis, and this is also why he was retired from the race. He didn't have fuel onboard to finish. I would argue night and day that his lap in front of Lewis is what enabled Max to win. Without that, even with the end of race SC, Max doesn't win.
RedBull went 1000% behind their number one at the cost of millions of dollars to themselves. MB did not commit to their number 1 in remotely the same way.
RedBull took the risks and things worked out so they were rewarded. MB played it Conservative and lost because of it. First lap shenanigans completely notwithstanding. That was a clean pass any way I look at it.
Motor racing is all about who crosses the line first at the end, regardless of what events take place within the race. Car failures, crashes, yellow flags, safety cars etc all notwithstanding, all that matters is who crosses first on the day.
The way I read and interpret the safety car rules, the Director can make the choice to remove cars who may interfere with the leaders but they do not have to unlap the entire field. So, the decision to allow them to race the last lap was in fact accurate and within the scope of the rules.
Further to that, and something none of you have picked up on or commented about is the simple ALL IN approach that RedBull took towards things. They took every risk imaginable, and their efforts were rewarded. Did they get unbelievably lucky that Latifi crashed where and when he did? Absolutely. I've seen some people suggest a Red Flag should have been thrown to 'preserve the race', however Masi said after Kimi's crash in practice that the same thing would not bring out a Red Flag in the race. Red Flags are for safety, not for the purpose of enhancing the race. However, RedBulls forethought goes deeper still.
RedBull were so intent on winning the WDC for Max, their number 1, they completely abandoned all shot at the Constructors money. Let's all pause and consider that for a second. We are talking giving up many tens of millions of dollars here, all to give Max a better shot. How did they do this you ask? They under fuelled Checo by seven laps. No wonder he was so competitive for that lap and a half with Lewis, and this is also why he was retired from the race. He didn't have fuel onboard to finish. I would argue night and day that his lap in front of Lewis is what enabled Max to win. Without that, even with the end of race SC, Max doesn't win.
RedBull went 1000% behind their number one at the cost of millions of dollars to themselves. MB did not commit to their number 1 in remotely the same way.
RedBull took the risks and things worked out so they were rewarded. MB played it Conservative and lost because of it. First lap shenanigans completely notwithstanding. That was a clean pass any way I look at it.
It made little difference as Hamilton and his ability to preserve ~40 lap old hard compound tires was still able to keep Max at 10-14sec. Even with 10 laps remaining Max was not able to reduce his lap times much even with ~5 lap old (medium?) tires which kept Lewis in a decent lead. IMO, the only reason Max won the WDC was the SC for Latiffi's Williams crash, Checo's defensive driving had little if any impact. Had it not been for the accident, Lewis would be WDC, MB/Hamilton had everything covered until that SC.
FWIW, I can't stand Jos, Christian and Marko who portray themselves as victims quite often. I'm also a Lewis, Toto, MB, and James Allison fan so I wanted to see MB take both championships. Max is a worthy champion and extremely talented driver, but not a fan of his lunge and dive passing technique where he has used to great extent the past few years.
IMO, the best teammate helping his team win the WDC, was Keke Rosberg running ahead with extreme aggressiveness in the lead of 1986 Australian Grand Prix. It basically forced Williams to counter and chase him for some reason, but bad luck caught Mansell out when he blew a tire. Alain Prost talks about it in Nico Rosberg's podcast this week.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 12-15-2021 at 09:17 AM.
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12-15-2021, 09:03 AM
#1231
Moderator
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...SPhzndNlR.html
It was a mix of Pirelli tyre testing and young driver running in Abu Dhabi on Tuesday, but a familiar team on top as Nyck de Vries set the fastest time for Mercedes.
The Mercedes reserve driver completed 77 laps for the constructors’ champions in the 2021 W12 car, topping the times with a 1m 23.194s that left him nearly 1.5s clear of the rest of the field.
Young Driver Test runners held the top seven positions, with Red Bull junior Liam Lawson driving for AlphaTauri and ending up second fastest after 125 laps, just 0.006s clear of Formula 2 champion Oscar Piastri in third for Alpine.
Piastri also topped the 100-lap mark, as he ended up as the middle of three drivers separated by just 0.09s on the timing screens. The last of those was IndyCar race-winner Pato O’Ward, who was testing for McLaren as a result of a deal made with Zak Brown to do so when he took his first IndyCar victory. O’Ward managed 92 laps on his Formula 1 debut.
Fifth was Guanyu Zhou as the Chinese driver completed Young Driver Test duties for Alfa Romeo, racking up 119 laps for his new team and ending up half a second adrift of O’Ward. Juri Vips was sixth in the Red Bull, although the F2 driver was responsible for one of three red flags during the day after he hit the barrier exiting Turn 14.
Aston Martin simulator driver Nick Yelloly was seventh overall, a little under 2.2s adrift of de Vries, before the first of the tyre test runners in Daniel Ricciardo.
Alongside young drivers in current cars, teams were running mule cars to test the 18-inch tyres that will be introduced in 2022. Ricciardo – who was nearly a second slower than Yelloly, but 0.3s clear of Lance Stroll in the adapted Aston Martin – caused the first red flag of the day around 90 minutes in when he stopped in the final sector due to a mechanical issue.
The final interruption came courtesy of a power unit issue for American driver Logan Sargeant, making his F1 debut for Williams. The 20-year-old still managed 92 laps before the premature ending to his day with a little over two hours to go, and was 15th overall.
In a complex arrangement at Ferrari, F2 runner-up Robert Shwartzman took over from Antonio Fuoco for the afternoon session as part of the Young Driver Test. The Russian was 10th, 0.3s faster than Charles Leclerc who had done tyre test running – with Ferrari using wheel covers – in the morning.
Mercedes gave permission for Valtteri Bottas to have his first outing for Alfa Romeo, and he was able to test the 18-inch tyres, managing 127 laps despite a spin in the morning, while George Russell started work in the Finn’s place at Mercedes, and added 131 laps of his own on the 2022 Pirellis.
Russell was just behind new world champion Max Verstappen, who was back on track at the Yas Marina Circuit less than 48 hours after the season-deciding race, completing 123 laps on next year’s tyres and providing advice to Vips in the 2021 car during breaks in running.
The Mercedes reserve driver completed 77 laps for the constructors’ champions in the 2021 W12 car, topping the times with a 1m 23.194s that left him nearly 1.5s clear of the rest of the field.
Young Driver Test runners held the top seven positions, with Red Bull junior Liam Lawson driving for AlphaTauri and ending up second fastest after 125 laps, just 0.006s clear of Formula 2 champion Oscar Piastri in third for Alpine.
Piastri also topped the 100-lap mark, as he ended up as the middle of three drivers separated by just 0.09s on the timing screens. The last of those was IndyCar race-winner Pato O’Ward, who was testing for McLaren as a result of a deal made with Zak Brown to do so when he took his first IndyCar victory. O’Ward managed 92 laps on his Formula 1 debut.
Fifth was Guanyu Zhou as the Chinese driver completed Young Driver Test duties for Alfa Romeo, racking up 119 laps for his new team and ending up half a second adrift of O’Ward. Juri Vips was sixth in the Red Bull, although the F2 driver was responsible for one of three red flags during the day after he hit the barrier exiting Turn 14.
Aston Martin simulator driver Nick Yelloly was seventh overall, a little under 2.2s adrift of de Vries, before the first of the tyre test runners in Daniel Ricciardo.
Alongside young drivers in current cars, teams were running mule cars to test the 18-inch tyres that will be introduced in 2022. Ricciardo – who was nearly a second slower than Yelloly, but 0.3s clear of Lance Stroll in the adapted Aston Martin – caused the first red flag of the day around 90 minutes in when he stopped in the final sector due to a mechanical issue.
The final interruption came courtesy of a power unit issue for American driver Logan Sargeant, making his F1 debut for Williams. The 20-year-old still managed 92 laps before the premature ending to his day with a little over two hours to go, and was 15th overall.
In a complex arrangement at Ferrari, F2 runner-up Robert Shwartzman took over from Antonio Fuoco for the afternoon session as part of the Young Driver Test. The Russian was 10th, 0.3s faster than Charles Leclerc who had done tyre test running – with Ferrari using wheel covers – in the morning.
Mercedes gave permission for Valtteri Bottas to have his first outing for Alfa Romeo, and he was able to test the 18-inch tyres, managing 127 laps despite a spin in the morning, while George Russell started work in the Finn’s place at Mercedes, and added 131 laps of his own on the 2022 Pirellis.
Russell was just behind new world champion Max Verstappen, who was back on track at the Yas Marina Circuit less than 48 hours after the season-deciding race, completing 123 laps on next year’s tyres and providing advice to Vips in the 2021 car during breaks in running.
12-15-2021, 09:04 AM
#1232
Moderator
https://www.planetf1.com/news/nico-r...-track-limits/
Nico Rosberg and Martin Brundle say cutting the engine of a driver that runs wide would stop track limits abuses.
Much to the dismay of many F1 drivers, the majority of circuits over the years have moved away from gravel traps, which prove not so friendly to motorbike racers as venues look to balance the interests of both.
Formula 1 therefore has been forced to police what they call ‘track limits’, ensuring drivers do not exploit the plentiful run-off areas to gain an advantage.
This has been a major headache for Race Control throughout 2021, with several controversial calls made on the subject.
In Brazil, Max Verstappen was not punished after steering himself and Hamilton off the track and retaining his lead, yet two rounds later in Saudi Arabia he was ordered to concede position to Hamilton, later receiving a five-second penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage.
Then at the season finale in Abu Dhabi, Hamilton was the one that left the track to keep the lead as Verstappen launched an overtaking attempt, but the stewards determined no investigation was necessary.
However, 2016 World Champion Rosberg has an idea, that being to cut the engine for “one or two seconds” for any driver that abuses track limits, thus creating a fixed deterrent for doing so.
“I have an idea because it’s really important to create some kind of deterrent for when you go off track,” he told Sky F1.
“One idea I have is cut the engine for any car that goes off track, cut the engine for one or two seconds. That would really stop people wanting to go there.”
Ex-F1 racer turned broadcaster Martin Brundle backed the idea – one he has seen working to strong effect in karting.
It is also a solution he has proposed in the paddock over the years, but acknowledges the safety risk attached to it.
“I mentioned that to a few people over the years and they say ‘well, that could be dangerous for the cars behind if the car in front suddenly slows down’,” Brundle explained.
“But he will be off the track when he suddenly slows down.
“But there is a concern you might suddenly come across a car that’s slowing down without any warning.”
Much to the dismay of many F1 drivers, the majority of circuits over the years have moved away from gravel traps, which prove not so friendly to motorbike racers as venues look to balance the interests of both.
Formula 1 therefore has been forced to police what they call ‘track limits’, ensuring drivers do not exploit the plentiful run-off areas to gain an advantage.
This has been a major headache for Race Control throughout 2021, with several controversial calls made on the subject.
In Brazil, Max Verstappen was not punished after steering himself and Hamilton off the track and retaining his lead, yet two rounds later in Saudi Arabia he was ordered to concede position to Hamilton, later receiving a five-second penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage.
Then at the season finale in Abu Dhabi, Hamilton was the one that left the track to keep the lead as Verstappen launched an overtaking attempt, but the stewards determined no investigation was necessary.
However, 2016 World Champion Rosberg has an idea, that being to cut the engine for “one or two seconds” for any driver that abuses track limits, thus creating a fixed deterrent for doing so.
“I have an idea because it’s really important to create some kind of deterrent for when you go off track,” he told Sky F1.
“One idea I have is cut the engine for any car that goes off track, cut the engine for one or two seconds. That would really stop people wanting to go there.”
Ex-F1 racer turned broadcaster Martin Brundle backed the idea – one he has seen working to strong effect in karting.
It is also a solution he has proposed in the paddock over the years, but acknowledges the safety risk attached to it.
“I mentioned that to a few people over the years and they say ‘well, that could be dangerous for the cars behind if the car in front suddenly slows down’,” Brundle explained.
“But he will be off the track when he suddenly slows down.
“But there is a concern you might suddenly come across a car that’s slowing down without any warning.”
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Bearcat94 (12-15-2021)
12-15-2021, 09:06 AM
#1233
Moderator
Or, just make it blanket consistent across all tracks with what the track limits are: The white line at the edge of the track, not the kerbs, not the line beyond the kerb, not the tree in the neighbor's field next to the red rooster after the cactus; and have a consistent penalty for infractions.
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civicdrivr (12-16-2021)
12-15-2021, 09:21 AM
#1234
AZ Community Team
Although FIA won't do it, having gravel traps in the outer turn runoff area instead of asphalt would definitely have a impact on the extreme passes that have happened in modern F1 races where there's a angled apex approach, lunge and dive pass attempt.
12-15-2021, 10:09 AM
#1235
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
I have thought about the cutting engine performance trick before. Because that's how many racing games implemented this problem going back decades. I remember play F1 Grand Prix back in the 90's, and everytime you went off track, you got a speed penalty. This should be totally feasible today. I'd also argue that this should also be applied when during VSC, which would really equalize and maintain the gaps between cars.
12-15-2021, 10:14 AM
#1236
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Further to that, and something none of you have picked up on or commented about is the simple ALL IN approach that RedBull took towards things. They took every risk imaginable, and their efforts were rewarded. Did they get unbelievably lucky that Latifi crashed where and when he did? Absolutely. I've seen some people suggest a Red Flag should have been thrown to 'preserve the race', however Masi said after Kimi's crash in practice that the same thing would not bring out a Red Flag in the race. Red Flags are for safety, not for the purpose of enhancing the race. However, RedBulls forethought goes deeper still.
RedBull were so intent on winning the WDC for Max, their number 1, they completely abandoned all shot at the Constructors money. Let's all pause and consider that for a second. We are talking giving up many tens of millions of dollars here, all to give Max a better shot. How did they do this you ask? They under fuelled Checo by seven laps. No wonder he was so competitive for that lap and a half with Lewis, and this is also why he was retired from the race. He didn't have fuel onboard to finish. I would argue night and day that his lap in front of Lewis is what enabled Max to win. Without that, even with the end of race SC, Max doesn't win.
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12-15-2021, 10:16 AM
#1237
AZ Community Team
12-15-2021, 10:18 AM
#1238
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
FWIW, I can't stand Jos, Christian and Marko who portray themselves as victims quite often. I'm also a Lewis, Toto, MB, and James Allison fan so I wanted to see MB take both championships. Max is a worthy champion and extremely talented driver, but not a fan of his lunge and dive passing technique where he has used to great extent the past few years.
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NBP04TL4ME (12-15-2021)
12-15-2021, 10:54 AM
#1239
AZ Community Team
I'm a big RBR fan, but I call it like I see it. I've criticized RBR when they whined in the past. I was super critical about them back when they would constantly complain about Renault during their partnership. But be honest here, Hamilton and Wolff whine and complain just as much. It's fine being a fan that supports their team/driver, but all teams whine, argue, and complain.
Not saying MB/Wolff/Hamilton never whine but RBR/Horner/Marko whine more from what my observations.
As for MB class act, is when they do things like this.
Formula 1 Champ Lewis Hamilton Sends His Race Car to Terminally Ill Five-Year-Old Fan Harry Shaw
We agree to disagree
12-15-2021, 12:38 PM
#1240
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Awesome video. Watching this reminds me of Star Wars, where Luke (Max) destroys the Evil Galactic Empire's Death Star (Mercedes). Okay, they didn't film the reaction of the Rebels back on Yavin, but this must have been the reaction.