The "official" housing recovery thread...
#81
Team Owner
The problem with people walking out of their giant equity loss home is where will they live after? If they walk away and get foreclosed on, they can't buy anything unless they have $500k lying around. The # of people with that much $ has decreased thanks to the population's net worth dropping like a brick. Getting credit is not like the old days. The banks have cracked down for a reason and we are stuck where we live.
#82
I feel the need...
Thread Starter
U.S. Homeowners Will Lose Up to $10 Trillion
John R. Talbott, a former Goldman Sachs banker, calls himself both an optimist and a realist. When it comes to U.S. housing, the realist has the upper hand.
His new book, “Contagion,” predicts that prices are only halfway through a potential decline that will see homeowners lose up to $10 trillion. Values will fall for four to five more years, he says, as defaults move from subprime to prime mortgages.
When I reviewed the book last week, some readers called the author courageous. Others accused him of being a doomsayer. I put their questions to Talbott, 54, in a telephone interview.....
His new book, “Contagion,” predicts that prices are only halfway through a potential decline that will see homeowners lose up to $10 trillion. Values will fall for four to five more years, he says, as defaults move from subprime to prime mortgages.
When I reviewed the book last week, some readers called the author courageous. Others accused him of being a doomsayer. I put their questions to Talbott, 54, in a telephone interview.....
#83
Iro Ridg .308
They rent or worst case the move back to the parent's nest assuming they still even have one. I've noticed in several different instances here in CA where 2 and sometimes even 3 families are renting and living in a single family home. Reminds me of Hawaii whenever I would visit friends.
#84
Team Owner
Sure the above could occur if feasible. If I'm living in an 4/2 home and I'm married with 2 kids, why would I move into my parents' which would inconvenience everyone? And renting might be slightly cheaper per month but you have the whole BS of not knowing the property, dick landlord raise the rent, landlord not pay the mortgage and you're back out on the street, landlord not fix something major that breaks since he's more broke than you, and the 1000 other headaches that come with renting. At least as an owner you have control of your property. It's cutting risk outside of the numbers. I've heard too many horror stories (my wife and I are in the finance/real estate industry) where people got kicked out of their house because there landlord bailed on the property. Basically you would be paying for a ticking time bomb that you can't turn off.
#85
Iro Ridg .308
Sure the above could occur if feasible. If I'm living in an 4/2 home and I'm married with 2 kids, why would I move into my parents' which would inconvenience everyone? And renting might be slightly cheaper per month but you have the whole BS of not knowing the property, dick landlord raise the rent, landlord not pay the mortgage and you're back out on the street, landlord not fix something major that breaks since he's more broke than you, and the 1000 other headaches that come with renting. At least as an owner you have control of your property. It's cutting risk outside of the numbers. I've heard too many horror stories (my wife and I are in the finance/real estate industry) where people got kicked out of their house because there landlord bailed on the property. Basically you would be paying for a ticking time bomb that you can't turn off.
Plus with the saturation in rental markets starting to come to fruition (as a result of more people pooling together under 1 roof), landlords are not going to be in a position to man-handle their tenants for that very same reason you mentioned where landlords themselves are having to look under the couch for loose change. The last thing a landlord wants to lose in today's market is a tenant bottom line unless they come to the reality that they need to cut their losses while they still can & get out of the rental property completely.
For the people / individuals that just lost their home, ain't no damn way they're getting back into a money pit in today's market. They will rent, consolidate with others, or find the nearest shelter.
Last edited by special-ed; 02-13-2009 at 12:49 PM.
#86
Iro Ridg .308
I've heard & have seen the horror stories 1st hand. Reality is, when it comes down to it, you suck it up and do what you have to do. If it means moving back home, you do it.
Plus with the saturation in rental markets starting to come to fruition (as a result of more people pooling together under 1 roof), landlords are not going to be in a position to man-handle their tenants for that very same reason you mentioned where landlords themselves are having to look under the couch for loose change. The last thing a landlord wants to lose in today's market is a tenant bottom line unless they come to the reality that they need to cut their losses while they still can & get out of the rental property completely.
For the people / individuals that just lost their home, ain't no damn way they're getting back into a money pit in today's market. They will rent, consolidate with others, or find the nearest shelter.
Plus with the saturation in rental markets starting to come to fruition (as a result of more people pooling together under 1 roof), landlords are not going to be in a position to man-handle their tenants for that very same reason you mentioned where landlords themselves are having to look under the couch for loose change. The last thing a landlord wants to lose in today's market is a tenant bottom line unless they come to the reality that they need to cut their losses while they still can & get out of the rental property completely.
For the people / individuals that just lost their home, ain't no damn way they're getting back into a money pit in today's market. They will rent, consolidate with others, or find the nearest shelter.
As for the saturation in the rental market, I felt positive this was going to come as I just closed on a new home in late November and I had to get my condo prepped for the rental market. I knew more people were going to be unemployed just from the amount of roll-overs I'd been working on in the last year. Instead of being greedy, I took an amount to break even on the $1400 monthly mortgage. Lucky for us the tenant works in the medical industry.
Real Estate News January 22, 2009, 12:20PM EST text size: TT
Rents Drop Nationwide as Vacancies Spike
Good news for renters as landlords are forced to offer discounts to keep their properties occupied
The economic crisis has opened up opportunities for apartment tenants. The inventory of vacant apartments is expanding, and rents are dropping quickly in major metros across the country.
For renters with leases about to expire, it's time to negotiate. Landlords are working extra hard these days to keep units filled.
Of course, your ability to hold on to an apartment—especially a luxury unit—depends on how secure you feel about your own job. Americans lost about 2.6 million jobs in 2008 (mostly in the final quarter of the year) and are likely to lose millions more this year. They are losing money on stocks and other investments and are cutting back on costs by downsizing and moving in with family members or roommates as they hunker down for a deep recession.
For renters with leases about to expire, it's time to negotiate. Landlords are working extra hard these days to keep units filled.
Of course, your ability to hold on to an apartment—especially a luxury unit—depends on how secure you feel about your own job. Americans lost about 2.6 million jobs in 2008 (mostly in the final quarter of the year) and are likely to lose millions more this year. They are losing money on stocks and other investments and are cutting back on costs by downsizing and moving in with family members or roommates as they hunker down for a deep recession.
#88
Team Owner
I was referring to cases where people can afford to stay in their homes even though they'll never recover the lost equity. If they can't afford their payments then obviously it's a no-brainer and consolidate housing with relatives/move to cheaper area. I think we were comparing apples to oranges.
#89
I feel the need...
Thread Starter
‘Son of TARP’ Makes Homeowners Inflation Targets
U.S. President Barack Obama couldn’t have picked a better place to talk about economic triage than Fort Myers, Florida.
“I know Fort Myers had the highest foreclosure rate in the nation last year,” Obama said at a town hall meeting last week.
“So we are going to do everything we can to help responsible homeowners here in Fort Myers and other hard-hit communities stay in their homes.”
What Obama failed to mention is exactly how he plans to stop foreclosures and pay for the government program to heal the housing and credit markets. The cure may be worse than the disease and trigger soaring inflation once the government starts printing money to pay for everything.
Leverage got us into this crisis. Is it logical to assume that massive borrowing will get us out of it without damage?
The record 81 percent increase in foreclosure filings last year -- affecting more than 2 million people -- needs a government solution. Some of the initial relief will come in the latest incarnation of TARP, part two of the Troubled Asset Relief Program outlined by Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner the same day as Obama was speaking in Florida.
Although specifics are lacking, “son of TARP” proposes to aid the mortgage market and stem foreclosures.....
“I know Fort Myers had the highest foreclosure rate in the nation last year,” Obama said at a town hall meeting last week.
“So we are going to do everything we can to help responsible homeowners here in Fort Myers and other hard-hit communities stay in their homes.”
What Obama failed to mention is exactly how he plans to stop foreclosures and pay for the government program to heal the housing and credit markets. The cure may be worse than the disease and trigger soaring inflation once the government starts printing money to pay for everything.
Leverage got us into this crisis. Is it logical to assume that massive borrowing will get us out of it without damage?
The record 81 percent increase in foreclosure filings last year -- affecting more than 2 million people -- needs a government solution. Some of the initial relief will come in the latest incarnation of TARP, part two of the Troubled Asset Relief Program outlined by Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner the same day as Obama was speaking in Florida.
Although specifics are lacking, “son of TARP” proposes to aid the mortgage market and stem foreclosures.....
I have serious misgivings about the Obama solution. You can't place a magical floor under an asset, whether it be a common stock or a home. The market needs to clear to its REAL price. Supply and demand, pretty simple really.
#90
I feel the need...
Thread Starter
Mortgage Rescues Fail as Price Drops Spur Defaults
The Obama Administration wants banks to offer loans with easier terms to more than 2 million borrowers in danger of defaulting on their mortgages, twice as many as 2008. That won’t stem the foreclosure crisis if prices keep falling.
A third of owners will walk away when the value of their homes drops 20 percent or more below what they owe, even if they can afford the payments, a situation known as “rational default,” said Norm Miller, director of real estate programs at the University of San Diego School of Business Administration.
Obama has committed at least $50 billion in guarantees for lenders that negotiate new mortgage terms, and proposes putting taxpayer funds at risk for half of $444 billion of loans that would be modified this year. Fifty-eight percent of the modifications made during the first quarter of 2008 ended up back in default, according to the U.S. Treasury’s Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. Unless lenders cut principal owed to reflect the current market value of properties, the same thing may happen this year, Miller said.....
A third of owners will walk away when the value of their homes drops 20 percent or more below what they owe, even if they can afford the payments, a situation known as “rational default,” said Norm Miller, director of real estate programs at the University of San Diego School of Business Administration.
Obama has committed at least $50 billion in guarantees for lenders that negotiate new mortgage terms, and proposes putting taxpayer funds at risk for half of $444 billion of loans that would be modified this year. Fifty-eight percent of the modifications made during the first quarter of 2008 ended up back in default, according to the U.S. Treasury’s Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. Unless lenders cut principal owed to reflect the current market value of properties, the same thing may happen this year, Miller said.....
#92
I feel the need...
Thread Starter
Obama Housing Plan Questions and Answers
The following is a reformatted version of questions and answers on the Obama administration’s housing plan released today by the U.S. Treasury in Washington.
Questions and Answers for Borrowers about the Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan
Borrowers Who Are Current on Their Mortgage Are Asking:
Questions and Answers for Borrowers about the Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan
Borrowers Who Are Current on Their Mortgage Are Asking:
#94
I feel the need...
Thread Starter
Obama housing rescue built on shaky ground
In the high school gymnasium of an Arizona community hard-hit by the housing crisis, U.S. President Barack Obama unveiled his latest rescue scheme for the economic crisis: an ambitious $75-billion (U.S.) plan to stem foreclosures that aims to keep as many as nine million households from losing their homes.
But the painful reality for the U.S. president is that the housing crisis, like the banking crisis and the recession, continues to worsen after stubbornly defying all previous government interventions.
Mr. Obama's housing plan may keep millions in their homes, but is unlikely to help the housing market stabilize, analysts warned yesterday. Housing prices are still falling in virtually every major U.S. market, plunging millions of indebted Americans into a black hole, where they owe more on their mortgages than their homes are worth. Each notch down in prices produces more foreclosures, and a new wave of toxic debt for the besieged banking industry.
“This bailout is likely to simply delay a day of reckoning for the banks, at great cost to taxpayers and little obvious benefit to homeowners,” warned Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington.....
But the painful reality for the U.S. president is that the housing crisis, like the banking crisis and the recession, continues to worsen after stubbornly defying all previous government interventions.
Mr. Obama's housing plan may keep millions in their homes, but is unlikely to help the housing market stabilize, analysts warned yesterday. Housing prices are still falling in virtually every major U.S. market, plunging millions of indebted Americans into a black hole, where they owe more on their mortgages than their homes are worth. Each notch down in prices produces more foreclosures, and a new wave of toxic debt for the besieged banking industry.
“This bailout is likely to simply delay a day of reckoning for the banks, at great cost to taxpayers and little obvious benefit to homeowners,” warned Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington.....
#95
Team Owner
So for Joe Average mortgage payer, he should try to refi normally first and then try this program if he is denied? Doesn't look like this program will offer any special finance rate that couldn't be obtained through normal means.
#96
I disagree with unanimity
iTrader: (2)
Assessing the President's Mortgage Plan
The president's new mortgage-relief plan contains clever elements that might indeed help homeowners. However, the superfluous threat of inviting judges to rewrite contracts must dilute the collateral behind troubled mortgage-backed securities. That, in turn, would jeopardize the endangered capital of banks, pension funds and other holders of such securities, including the Federal Reserve, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
The simplest yet arguably most potent part of the strategy is the plan to allow Fannie and Freddie to refinance conforming loans (up to $729,750) without the quaint requirement that the refinanced loan be no larger than 80% of the value of the house. This change provides access to today's low mortgage rates even to "underwater" borrowers -- those who owe more that their houses are worth. Although such borrowers have no skin in the game, President Obama assumes or hopes that their reduced payments will result in fewer defaults.
A second part of the plan provides standardized rules for modifying mortgages (obligatory for banks that accepted Troubled Asset Relief Program money). Participating lenders would first have to cut interest rates sufficiently to limit mortgage payments to 38% of gross income -- something more likely for those now paying 39%-40% than for those paying much more. The government would then match further interest-rate reductions to push mortgage payments all the way down to 31% of pretax income. In order to cut mortgage payments to 31% from 38%, $75 billion in taxpayer subsidies will be available to lenders to cover half the cost. Some will pay more in taxes so that others can pay less for housing. This is redistribution based on debt rather than income.
The plan also provides small bribes to mortgage servicers and borrowers for every assisted borrower who does not end up defaulting again (a big problem with past loan modification schemes). Treasury would also establish an insurance fund to protect participating lenders if house prices fell further.
Subsidizing select mortgages poses a fundamental rationing problem: Demand for subsidies rises to meet the available supply. If Joe and Sally get federal subsidies to cut their mortgage payments to 31% of their income, their neighbors will want subsidies too. To keep the expenses from ballooning well beyond $75 billion, there may have to be stern but arbitrary "means testing" to decide who is most deserving of a taxpayer-supported mortgage. And that will likely provoke resentment about how winners and losers are picked.
The third part of the plan is to get Fannie and Freddie to buy more mortgages with the hope of keeping mortgage rates down. Never mind that both organizations were considered insolvent last fall, when they held far fewer dubious IOUs than they do now. The plan instructs the Treasury -- which is also getting skeptical reviews from Moody's -- to invest another $200 billion in Fannie and Freddie preferred shares.
Last and least helpful, the president's proposed "cramdown" would "allow judicial modification of home mortgages for borrowers who have run out of options." That would require federal legislation, and Congress would be well advised to put that plan aside in order to give the president's new options a fair chance.
Any plan that compels mortgage holders to reduce the amount of money they are owed must in turn reduce the value of mortgage-backed securities held by banks, insurance companies, pension funds, Fannie and Freddie, and the Fed. By injuring the balance sheets of potential lenders, a cramdown would also injure potential borrowers.
The needless threat of inviting judges to rewrite mortgage contracts at whim helps explain why bank stocks generally fell on the plan's announcement, while financial shorts rose.
In sum, allowing conforming loans to be refinanced without a big equity position seems promising. Trying to bribe lenders to trim monthly mortgage bills to 31% of income would help those lucky enough to get in on the deal before the money runs out. But all of this potential good could be undone by the systemic risks to mortgage-backed securities caused by the unpredictable legal risks of a judicial cramdown.
The simplest yet arguably most potent part of the strategy is the plan to allow Fannie and Freddie to refinance conforming loans (up to $729,750) without the quaint requirement that the refinanced loan be no larger than 80% of the value of the house. This change provides access to today's low mortgage rates even to "underwater" borrowers -- those who owe more that their houses are worth. Although such borrowers have no skin in the game, President Obama assumes or hopes that their reduced payments will result in fewer defaults.
A second part of the plan provides standardized rules for modifying mortgages (obligatory for banks that accepted Troubled Asset Relief Program money). Participating lenders would first have to cut interest rates sufficiently to limit mortgage payments to 38% of gross income -- something more likely for those now paying 39%-40% than for those paying much more. The government would then match further interest-rate reductions to push mortgage payments all the way down to 31% of pretax income. In order to cut mortgage payments to 31% from 38%, $75 billion in taxpayer subsidies will be available to lenders to cover half the cost. Some will pay more in taxes so that others can pay less for housing. This is redistribution based on debt rather than income.
The plan also provides small bribes to mortgage servicers and borrowers for every assisted borrower who does not end up defaulting again (a big problem with past loan modification schemes). Treasury would also establish an insurance fund to protect participating lenders if house prices fell further.
Subsidizing select mortgages poses a fundamental rationing problem: Demand for subsidies rises to meet the available supply. If Joe and Sally get federal subsidies to cut their mortgage payments to 31% of their income, their neighbors will want subsidies too. To keep the expenses from ballooning well beyond $75 billion, there may have to be stern but arbitrary "means testing" to decide who is most deserving of a taxpayer-supported mortgage. And that will likely provoke resentment about how winners and losers are picked.
The third part of the plan is to get Fannie and Freddie to buy more mortgages with the hope of keeping mortgage rates down. Never mind that both organizations were considered insolvent last fall, when they held far fewer dubious IOUs than they do now. The plan instructs the Treasury -- which is also getting skeptical reviews from Moody's -- to invest another $200 billion in Fannie and Freddie preferred shares.
Last and least helpful, the president's proposed "cramdown" would "allow judicial modification of home mortgages for borrowers who have run out of options." That would require federal legislation, and Congress would be well advised to put that plan aside in order to give the president's new options a fair chance.
Any plan that compels mortgage holders to reduce the amount of money they are owed must in turn reduce the value of mortgage-backed securities held by banks, insurance companies, pension funds, Fannie and Freddie, and the Fed. By injuring the balance sheets of potential lenders, a cramdown would also injure potential borrowers.
The needless threat of inviting judges to rewrite mortgage contracts at whim helps explain why bank stocks generally fell on the plan's announcement, while financial shorts rose.
In sum, allowing conforming loans to be refinanced without a big equity position seems promising. Trying to bribe lenders to trim monthly mortgage bills to 31% of income would help those lucky enough to get in on the deal before the money runs out. But all of this potential good could be undone by the systemic risks to mortgage-backed securities caused by the unpredictable legal risks of a judicial cramdown.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1235...ics_And_Policy
#97
Team Owner
the government would then match further interest-rate reductions to push mortgage payments all the way down to 31% of pretax income. In order to cut mortgage payments to 31% from 38%, $75 billion in taxpayer subsidies will be available to lenders to cover half the cost.
For example, someone may be under the 31% limit already if a payment is just considered principal and interest, but since many people also have an escrow account for property taxes and insurance, the monthly check to the bank could be over the 31% limit.
#99
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I'm SICK and TIRED of this helping out people that can't afford their goddamn fuckin mortgage. If you got a mortgage you can't afford I don't wanna see you on my local news station talking about the problems.. GET THE FUCK OUT! Your gone, get out of the house and start living on the streets. You and your 7 kids or whatever the hell you got.
The responsible home owners and responsible citizens of this country are gonna KILLED because of stupid retarded bottom the barrel Americans who shouldn't be allowed to do anything anymore and should just be taken on a "special cruise" in which they'll be thrown off a cruise ship in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean!
The responsible home owners and responsible citizens of this country are gonna KILLED because of stupid retarded bottom the barrel Americans who shouldn't be allowed to do anything anymore and should just be taken on a "special cruise" in which they'll be thrown off a cruise ship in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean!
#100
Iro Ridg .308
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aFlXJ31YG0ng
I have serious misgivings about the Obama solution. You can't place a magical floor under an asset, whether it be a common stock or a home. The market needs to clear to its REAL price. Supply and demand, pretty simple really.
I have serious misgivings about the Obama solution. You can't place a magical floor under an asset, whether it be a common stock or a home. The market needs to clear to its REAL price. Supply and demand, pretty simple really.
This is when it gets really nasty. When certain home builders go under, especially those that were bundled in these credit default swaps that many of these banks took on, could be the final trigger (or at least 1 step closer) to these swaps being called in.
Depending on how much the bank would have to pay to the receiving outfit of these swaps, could lead to failure of the entire banking system especially since from the table I posted the other day regarding the 25 largest banks, their derivatives / credit default swaps far, far, far exceed their total assets available.
These bankers are idiots.
#101
Senior Moderator
I'm SICK and TIRED of this helping out people that can't afford their goddamn fuckin mortgage. If you got a mortgage you can't afford I don't wanna see you on my local news station talking about the problems.. GET THE FUCK OUT! Your gone, get out of the house and start living on the streets. You and your 7 kids or whatever the hell you got.
The responsible home owners and responsible citizens of this country are gonna KILLED because of stupid retarded bottom the barrel Americans who shouldn't be allowed to do anything anymore and should just be taken on a "special cruise" in which they'll be thrown off a cruise ship in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean!
The responsible home owners and responsible citizens of this country are gonna KILLED because of stupid retarded bottom the barrel Americans who shouldn't be allowed to do anything anymore and should just be taken on a "special cruise" in which they'll be thrown off a cruise ship in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean!
That said jock, these same homeowners are NOT the only ones at fault and MANY of them had loan officers that sold them a bill of goods without explaining the possible caveats (ie: ARM reset explanation, teaser rates defined) of their big ticket purchase. OR maybe they were gainfully employed and able to afford these homes when they purchased them (AT the rate established) but were then laid off from their jobs and no longer able to afford said mortgage.
And trust me, as a homeowner I do feel the equity pain of foreclosed homes within my neighborhood.
#102
TQ > MPG
So let me get this straight, I bought my house in jan 2006 for $205k. Its now worth ~ $170k because the economy in Detroit is in the shitter and all the foreclosures around me. I cant refinance because obviously I dont have $30k burning a hole in my pocket, and I went with only a couple grand down. I've never missed a payment and actually usually pay 1.5x what my normal prinical payment is. My loan is still at like $190k, so its more than 105% of the market value.
Under this new plan I STILL cant refinance to a lower rate, correct? I'm at 6.5% right now, and would love to get a lower rate, and even maybe go to a 15yr, but NOONE will even consider me since I am so upside down now.
Under this new plan I STILL cant refinance to a lower rate, correct? I'm at 6.5% right now, and would love to get a lower rate, and even maybe go to a 15yr, but NOONE will even consider me since I am so upside down now.
#103
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While I do not agree at all with your insensitivity (ie: start living on the streets), these foreclosures are a necessary evil in order to correct the housing market...albeit painfully.
That said jock, these same homeowners are NOT the only ones at fault and MANY of them had loan officers that sold them a bill of goods without explaining the possible caveats (ie: ARM reset explanation, teaser rates defined) of their big ticket purchase. OR maybe they were gainfully employed and able to afford these homes when they purchased them (AT the rate established) but were then laid off from their jobs and no longer able to afford said mortgage.
And trust me, as a homeowner I do feel the equity pain of foreclosed homes within my neighborhood.
That said jock, these same homeowners are NOT the only ones at fault and MANY of them had loan officers that sold them a bill of goods without explaining the possible caveats (ie: ARM reset explanation, teaser rates defined) of their big ticket purchase. OR maybe they were gainfully employed and able to afford these homes when they purchased them (AT the rate established) but were then laid off from their jobs and no longer able to afford said mortgage.
And trust me, as a homeowner I do feel the equity pain of foreclosed homes within my neighborhood.
Lets slow your roll there....The programs out there that mortgage brokers like myself were provided to us by the lender to sell to the public. We did not create these "fucking insane" no income, no asset, no employment verification loans. Do not be naive to think that people didn't know what they were doing/signing since everything is disclosed and the requirements were non existent. It was ridiculous between the 100% stated income investor loans to the plain old no doc loans that there is no surprise that we are in this mess and yet we are still perpetuating it with FHA govt backed loans that only require a 580 credit score and 3.5% down......
#104
I feel the need...
Thread Starter
The sooner we can get the foreclosure wave behind us the better. When the internet bubble burst, I didn't see investors clammoring to get paid back on their XYZ tech stock which cratered 70%. The market got whacked, and that's what should happen here.
As for the CDS market, your talking about the impact on the Money Center banks and AIG which have already been stuffed to the gills with TARP money and need more. If you look at CU's and community banks, plenty of them are in fine shape and will ride out the storm fine.
There is no magic bullet here. We have a generation of consumers who've over-borrowed, over-consumed and have never faced a belt tightening. Cinch it up real good. The more I read, the more I've come to the conclusion that it will take a generation or two to get back to break even. It's been 20 years and the Nikkei is still 1/5th of the value of 1989 peak.
#105
I feel the need...
Thread Starter
Mortgage Plan Effect May Be Limited, Analysts Say
The effect of the Obama administration’s housing plan on home-loan bonds and borrowers will be limited by restrictions on which mortgages are eligible, according to Bank of America Corp. analysts.
The plan, announced yesterday, includes government payments to lenders such as bond investors, as well as to mortgage servicers and borrowers either before or after loans are reworked. It also will loosen Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac rules to allow more borrowers to refinance into lower payments, including some who owe more than their homes are worth.
Only about 50 percent to 60 percent of securitized prime jumbo or Alt-A loans meet the loan-modification standards requiring borrowers to live in mortgaged properties and owe no more than Fannie and Freddie’s loan limits, according to a report yesterday by Bank of America strategists including Akiva Dickstein and Vipul Jain. The refinancing plan will be limited by a standard preventing homeowners from qualifying if they owe more than 105 percent of their homes’ value, they said.
“Borrowers who do not qualify due to loan size can of course still have their loans modified by their servicers, but without the government incentives,” the New York-based analysts wrote. The refinancing plan “does little to help underwater borrowers,” they added.....
The plan, announced yesterday, includes government payments to lenders such as bond investors, as well as to mortgage servicers and borrowers either before or after loans are reworked. It also will loosen Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac rules to allow more borrowers to refinance into lower payments, including some who owe more than their homes are worth.
Only about 50 percent to 60 percent of securitized prime jumbo or Alt-A loans meet the loan-modification standards requiring borrowers to live in mortgaged properties and owe no more than Fannie and Freddie’s loan limits, according to a report yesterday by Bank of America strategists including Akiva Dickstein and Vipul Jain. The refinancing plan will be limited by a standard preventing homeowners from qualifying if they owe more than 105 percent of their homes’ value, they said.
“Borrowers who do not qualify due to loan size can of course still have their loans modified by their servicers, but without the government incentives,” the New York-based analysts wrote. The refinancing plan “does little to help underwater borrowers,” they added.....
#106
Senior Moderator
Lets slow your roll there....The programs out there that mortgage brokers like myself were provided to us by the lender to sell to the public. We did not create these "fucking insane" no income, no asset, no employment verification loans. Do not be naive to think that people didn't know what they were doing/signing since everything is disclosed and the requirements were non existent. It was ridiculous between the 100% stated income investor loans to the plain old no doc loans that there is no surprise that we are in this mess and yet we are still perpetuating it with FHA govt backed loans that only require a 580 credit score and 3.5% down......
And not for nothing, if you guys knew they were "insane" products -- which they were-- you should have had NO part in selling them but because they were money makers your ilk ran with it. But, we were also to blame. My former and current employers are major investment banks where I worked to administer the lines of credit provided for funding these same insane products. As in your case, some of us knew much of this was destined for calamity but the upside at the time was too hard to pass up. (I still cannot get over the concept of neg am loans!! )
But I don't disagree your statement neither. Honestly, while the weighted avg blame is debatable, just about EVERY component of the process shares some level of culpability for our current predicament.
#107
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While the number is subjective quite simply, some people did NOT have any clue (or were simply ignorant) of what they were getting into or had any real comprehension of what the wording in those documents actually mean. (Honestly, people should really hire an attorney to review the documents they sign during a closing....but I digress)
And not for nothing, if you guys knew they were "insane" products -- which they were-- you should have had NO part in selling them but because they were money makers your ilk ran with it. But, we were also to blame. My former and current employers are major investment banks where I worked to administer the lines of credit provided for funding these same insane products. As in your case, some of us knew much of this was destined for calamity but the upside at the time was too hard to pass up. (I still cannot get over the concept of neg am loans!! )
But I don't disagree your statement neither. Honestly, while the weighted avg blame is debatable, just about EVERY component of the process shares some level of culpability for our current predicament.
And not for nothing, if you guys knew they were "insane" products -- which they were-- you should have had NO part in selling them but because they were money makers your ilk ran with it. But, we were also to blame. My former and current employers are major investment banks where I worked to administer the lines of credit provided for funding these same insane products. As in your case, some of us knew much of this was destined for calamity but the upside at the time was too hard to pass up. (I still cannot get over the concept of neg am loans!! )
But I don't disagree your statement neither. Honestly, while the weighted avg blame is debatable, just about EVERY component of the process shares some level of culpability for our current predicament.
#109
Make MyTL Great Again
I'm SICK and TIRED of this helping out people that can't afford their goddamn fuckin mortgage. If you got a mortgage you can't afford I don't wanna see you on my local news station talking about the problems.. GET THE FUCK OUT! Your gone, get out of the house and start living on the streets. You and your 7 kids or whatever the hell you got.
The responsible home owners and responsible citizens of this country are gonna KILLED because of stupid retarded bottom the barrel Americans who shouldn't be allowed to do anything anymore and should just be taken on a "special cruise" in which they'll be thrown off a cruise ship in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean!
The responsible home owners and responsible citizens of this country are gonna KILLED because of stupid retarded bottom the barrel Americans who shouldn't be allowed to do anything anymore and should just be taken on a "special cruise" in which they'll be thrown off a cruise ship in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean!
While I do not agree at all with your insensitivity (ie: start living on the streets), these foreclosures are a necessary evil in order to correct the housing market...albeit painfully.
That said jock, these same homeowners are NOT the only ones at fault and MANY of them had loan officers that sold them a bill of goods without explaining the possible caveats (ie: ARM reset explanation, teaser rates defined) of their big ticket purchase. OR maybe they were gainfully employed and able to afford these homes when they purchased them (AT the rate established) but were then laid off from their jobs and no longer able to afford said mortgage.
That said jock, these same homeowners are NOT the only ones at fault and MANY of them had loan officers that sold them a bill of goods without explaining the possible caveats (ie: ARM reset explanation, teaser rates defined) of their big ticket purchase. OR maybe they were gainfully employed and able to afford these homes when they purchased them (AT the rate established) but were then laid off from their jobs and no longer able to afford said mortgage.
While the number is subjective quite simply, some people did NOT have any clue (or were simply ignorant) of what they were getting into or had any real comprehension of what the wording in those documents actually mean. (Honestly, people should really hire an attorney to review the documents they sign during a closing....but I digress)
#110
Make MyTL Great Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0zEXdDO5JU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhDkZjKBEw
#112
Senior Moderator
#113
Senior Moderator
While sure there are people who lost their jobs through no fault of their own and it sucks....but how can you try to put blame on the people who sold the shitty loans? It's the idiot's who got into it fault. You shouldn't buy a 500k house because some guy at a bank said sure he can afford it. You have to look at your own finances and do some math of your own. Fully understand the shit you are agreeing to and signing.
If you don't use an attorney in the home buying process, it's just at stupid as not getting a home inspection. You're an idiot who deserves to be foreclosed on.
If you don't use an attorney in the home buying process, it's just at stupid as not getting a home inspection. You're an idiot who deserves to be foreclosed on.
#115
Senior Moderator
Trust me, I'm not trying to defend borrowers who ignorantly wound up in their dire circumstances. (To the contrary, they really need to be rooted of the market...hence the necessary pain we need in the housing market as manifested by the current foreclosure wave.)
I will always feel some level of sympathy for those who lose their homes, be it their fault or not as many of them are families (NOT Al Qaeda cells) whose head of household clearly overstepped their bounds in an effort to provide their families with as much home as 'attainable' at the time.
Ultimately, I just want it to be made clear that just about all parties involved in the process share culpability with the current state of affairs.
I will always feel some level of sympathy for those who lose their homes, be it their fault or not as many of them are families (NOT Al Qaeda cells) whose head of household clearly overstepped their bounds in an effort to provide their families with as much home as 'attainable' at the time.
Ultimately, I just want it to be made clear that just about all parties involved in the process share culpability with the current state of affairs.
#116
Senior Moderator
Tighten your seatbelts kids, we're in for a rough ride... Even the rich are feeling it now...
full article: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ab4hyMC6aJf0
full article: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ab4hyMC6aJf0
Jumbo Loan Defaults Rise at Fast Pace as Rich Suffer
By Bob Ivry
Feb. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Luxury homeowners are falling behind on mortgage payments at the fastest pace in more than 15 years, a sign the U.S. financial crisis that began with the poorest Americans has reached the wealthiest.
About 2.57 percent of prime borrowers who took out jumbo loans last year were at least 60 days delinquent, according to LPS Applied Analytics, a mortgage data service in Jacksonville, Florida. They got to that level within 10 months, almost twice as quickly as 2007 borrowers and the fastest rate since at least 1992, when LPS Applied Analytics began tracking the market.
By Bob Ivry
Feb. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Luxury homeowners are falling behind on mortgage payments at the fastest pace in more than 15 years, a sign the U.S. financial crisis that began with the poorest Americans has reached the wealthiest.
About 2.57 percent of prime borrowers who took out jumbo loans last year were at least 60 days delinquent, according to LPS Applied Analytics, a mortgage data service in Jacksonville, Florida. They got to that level within 10 months, almost twice as quickly as 2007 borrowers and the fastest rate since at least 1992, when LPS Applied Analytics began tracking the market.
#119
Team Owner
So let's see what Obama can do for me.
Last edited by doopstr; 02-21-2009 at 01:16 PM.
#120
Senior Moderator