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Old 08-07-2008, 08:15 PM
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Highest Home Supply Since '82 Seen Needing 50% Cut

Hovnanian Enterprises Inc., New Jersey's largest homebuilder, cut the number of unsold houses by more than 50 percent over the past two years after lowering prices and still had 1,500 on its books as of April.

``We pretty much start a home these days when we have a contract from a buyer wanting to purchase one,'' Chief Financial Officer Larry Sorsby said in an interview from his office in Red Bank, New Jersey. The company's sales price in the northeast for homes under contract dropped 7.4 percent in April from a year earlier. ``We don't build them and hope they come,'' he said.

There are 3.9 million unsold existing single-family homes, the most since at least 1982, when the Chicago-based National Association of Realtors started compiling the data. The inventory of existing houses and condominiums must fall by almost 50 percent for prices to stabilize, said William Wheaton, an economics professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge. There is an 11.1 month supply of existing unsold homes at the current sales pace, up from 4.6 months in September 2005, according to the National Association of Realtors data.

It now takes 10 weeks to 12 weeks on average to sell a house, compared with four weeks or five weeks at the height of the five- year housing boom, said Walter Molony, a spokesman for the Realtors group.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=avPV2OxmwF9w
Old 09-04-2008, 07:37 PM
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Florida Real Estate Bottom Signaled by Sale of Distressed Condo

Sales of distressed Miami properties have begun, signaling a bottom for south Florida's real estate market and the end of waiting for vulture funds armed with about $30 billion to spend.

The sale of 120 condominiums last month to a Philadelphia private equity firm and Related Group of Florida, a development company led by Jorge Perez, ``broke the logjam'' for investors targeting the oversupply of condos in downtown Miami, said Peter Zalewski, owner of the Condo Vultures LLC consulting firm in Bal Harbour, Florida.

Regional and community lenders are starting to market properties in Miami, where the median condo price in July fell 19 percent from a year earlier, according to the Florida Association of Realtors in Orlando. Banks that were reluctant to take real estate-related writedowns may be forced by regulators to sell homes that sit empty and mortgage notes that aren't being paid, said Jack McCabe, founder of McCabe Research & Consulting LLC in Deerfield Beach, Florida.

``There's a purging going on,'' McCabe said. ``It's my belief that the vulture buyers would form the bottom of the real estate market, and we're almost there. That bottom may last for three years as foreclosure sales go on.''
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=afUCiNEO.5yo
Old 09-07-2008, 07:38 PM
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U.S. Unveils Takeover of Two Mortgage Giants

WASHINGTON — The Treasury Department on Sunday seized control of the quasi-public mortgage finance giants, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and announced a four-part rescue plan that included an open-ended guarantee to provide as much capital as they need to stave off insolvency.

At a news conference on Sunday morning, the Treasury secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. also announced that he had dismissed the chief executives of both companies and replaced them with two long-time financial executives. Herbert M. Allison, the former chairman of TIAA-CREF, the huge pension fund for teachers, will take over Fannie Mae and succeed Daniel H. Mudd. At Freddie Mac, David M. Moffett, currently a senior adviser at the Carlyle Group, the large private equity firm, will succeed Richard F. Syron. Mr. Mudd and Mr. Syron, however, will stay on temporarily to help with the transition.

“Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are so large and so interwoven in our financial system that a failure of either of them would cause great turmoil in our financial markets here at home and around the globe,” Mr. Paulson said. “This turmoil would directly and negatively impact household wealth: from family budgets, to home values, to savings for college and retirement. A failure would affect the ability of Americans to get home loans, auto loans and other consumer credit and business finance. And a failure would be harmful to economic growth and job creation.”

Mr. Paulson refused to say how much capital the government might eventually have to provide, or what the ultimate cost to taxpayers might be.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/bu...prod=permalink
Old 09-08-2008, 07:23 AM
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Where are all the free-market folks? I'm waiting to hear the cries of "SOCIALISM!"
Old 09-08-2008, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
Where are all the free-market folks? I'm waiting to hear the cries of "SOCIALISM!"
Because teh alternative would be?
Old 09-08-2008, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Because teh alternative would be?
Yeah, the free-market folks want hands-off until the company fucks it up so bad, we have no choice.
Old 09-08-2008, 08:19 PM
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In Crisis, Paulson's Stunning Use of Federal Power

Originally Posted by NetEditor
Yeah, the free-market folks want hands-off until the company fucks it up so bad, we have no choice.
The Gov't Agencies were chartered by congress and existed in a unique world of quasi public/for profit companies created to expand homeownership. Are you suggesting that you can live with economic Armageddon (which is pretty much what would have happened) had the Treasury allowed both institutions to implode?


Hurricane Hank swept through the nation's capital yesterday with gale-force regulatory winds and a tidal surge of federal cash, upending two of Washington's biggest enterprises and permanently changing the landscape of housing finance in America.....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...print/asection
Old 09-09-2008, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Are you suggesting that you can live with economic Armageddon (which is pretty much what would have happened) had the Treasury allowed both institutions to implode?
Nope, not suggesting that at all. I think the bailout was very necessary. What I find curious is how everyone wants government out of business unless the business is about to go under. If government is expected to bail out poorly run and/or greedy companies, then government has the right to regulate.
Old 09-09-2008, 06:46 PM
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McCain May Privatize Fannie, Freddie; Obama Sees Federal Role

Originally Posted by NetEditor
What I find curious is how everyone wants government out of business unless the business is about to go under.
I don't think that "everyone" want's gov't to bail anyone out, unless of course there is no realistic alternative. We are facing the worst housing crisis since the Great Depression, had the Gov't done nothing our capital markets would have seized up and taken down the entire financial system as we know it. Why? Because foreign investors started balking about the risk of owning Agency debt which moved risk premiums higher.

This is the warning shot across the bow of US sovereign debt.



John McCain and Barack Obama agree the Treasury needed to step in to rescue Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They disagree over how much the U.S. government should be involved in the housing market once the immediate crisis is past.

Republican Senator McCain of Arizona wants the government to take over the two agencies, split them up, and then exit the mortgage-finance business by selling them off. Democratic Senator Obama of Illinois is suggesting a more lasting federal involvement.

``The role of the U.S. government in the housing industry is in play,'' said Jim Leach, a former 15-term Republican congressman from Iowa who is now an Obama supporter. ``There are pragmatic and philosophical issues at stake.''

The differences between the two presidential candidates over the lenders mirror a broader philosophical divide over the part the government should play in the economy. McCain supports steep cuts in taxes and spending to promote growth. Obama, while backing some tax reductions, favors increased public investment to boost the economy and job growth.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a1ujoLiLLz78
Old 09-12-2008, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
Yeah, the free-market folks want hands-off until the company fucks it up so bad, we have no choice.
The free-market folks didn't want the GSEs to begin with. Now that they're here, it's too late.
Old 12-04-2008, 06:34 PM
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Bernanke Says U.S. Must Step Up Foreclosure Efforts

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke urged using more taxpayer funds for new efforts to prevent home foreclosures, saying the private sector is incapable of coping with the crisis on its own.

The Fed chief outlined four possible options, including buying delinquent mortgages and providing bigger incentives for refinancing loans. He called for addressing the “apparent market failure” where lenders aren’t modifying mortgages even in cases where it’s in their own economic interest to do so.

Each option would require “some commitment of public funds,” Bernanke said, underscoring his position that the central bank alone can’t revive the economy through its interest- rate cuts and emergency lending programs. The Republican’s stance may also put him in line with President-elect Barack Obama, who said yesterday that “we’ve got to start helping homeowners in a serious way.”

“More needs to be done,” Bernanke said in a speech to a Fed research conference on housing and mortgage markets in Washington today. “Policy initiatives to reduce the number of preventable foreclosures should be high on the agenda.”

The government could buy “delinquent or at-risk mortgages in bulk,” then refinance them through the federal Hope for Homeowners program, Bernanke said. Congress could also help reduce loan rates and lender insurance premiums, he said.

Also today, two regional Fed officials warned that the economy, which entered a recession a year ago, faces a lengthy slump.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=abINDLzbaE54


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Old 12-07-2008, 10:25 AM
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Maybe It’s Time to Buy That First House

Five or 10 years from now, when the financial crisis has ended and housing prices are up smartly once more, we will look in the rearview mirror and realize that we missed a golden age for first-time home buyers.

Then, everyone who sat on their down payment savings accounts for a few years too long will kick themselves for not taking advantage of what may turn out to be the buying opportunity of a lifetime for those who can qualify for a mortgage.

Unfortunately, we do not know when this golden age will begin, because we will be able to identify a bottom to the housing market only with the benefit of hindsight. But as it does with the stock market, the moment will probably arrive when everyone is feeling the most pessimistic.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/bu...prod=permalink
Old 12-07-2008, 11:09 AM
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It will be real interesting to see if the Treasury plan for 4.5% mortgages comes though. From my understanding it will only be for purchases, not for refi. I'm not sure if that's a good plan or not. It could cause a flood of houses to be put on the market as people look to buy a new house to get that low rate.

I was hoping that rates would get under 5% by themselves.
Old 12-07-2008, 12:03 PM
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Who gives a shit if rates drop. The conventional underwriters have gone so far left and tightened up so much that most borrowers are not qualifying even with good credit. They have completely fucked investors by now only allowing a person to have 4 open mortgages including their primary residence. The only thing that is remotely loose still is FHA. I don't believe that it will stimulate buying because the media has made the economy out to be so much worse than it really is that people are petrified to spend any money.
Old 12-07-2008, 01:54 PM
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I haven't seen significant problems getting a mortgage for a second residence. The biggest problem I see is broker apathy. Out of ten calls, you might get two that are willing to put any effort forth.
Old 12-07-2008, 02:19 PM
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we were thinking about moving sooner than 2011, but we need to come up with more down payment money. This would have been a great time to get a new home and save some$$$
Old 12-08-2008, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dallison
we were thinking about moving sooner than 2011, but we need to come up with more down payment money. This would have been a great time to get a new home and save some$$$
No you don't...FHA is 97% financing and allows a 6% seller concession for closing costs!
Old 12-08-2008, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by phil2
No you don't...FHA is 97% financing and allows a 6% seller concession for closing costs!
Isn't FHA for first time homebuyers only, or did they loosen that requirement?
Old 12-09-2008, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Isn't FHA for first time homebuyers only, or did they loosen that requirement?
They did away with that some time ago. Perhaps half of the new loans on home purchases in my area are currently FHA. It's the most available mortgage money around right now as most buyers can't come up with 20% down or qualify even at the reduced prices.
Old 12-09-2008, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MR1
They did away with that some time ago. Perhaps half of the new loans on home purchases in my area are currently FHA. It's the most available mortgage money around right now as most buyers can't come up with 20% down or qualify even at the reduced prices.
Old 12-11-2008, 11:09 AM
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Some time after Sharren McGarry went to work as a mortgage consultant at Wachovia’s Stuart, Fla., branch in July 2007, she and her colleagues were directed to market a mortgage called the “Pick A Pay” loan. Sales commissions on the product were double the rates for conventional mortgages, and she was required to make sure nearly half the loans she sold were "Pick A Pay," she said.

These “pay option” adjustable-rate mortgages gave borrowers a choice of payments each month. They also carried a feature that came as a nasty surprise to some borrowers, called "negative amortization." If the homeowner opted to pay less than the full monthly amount, the difference was tacked onto the principal. When the loan automatically “recasted” in five or 10 years, the owner would be locked into a new, much higher, set monthly payment.

While McGarry balked at selling these pay-option ARMs, other lenders and mortgage brokers were happy to sell the loans and pocket the higher commissions.

Now, as the housing recession deepens, a coming wave of payment shocks threatens to bring another surge in defaults and foreclosures as these mortgages “recast” to higher monthly payments over the next two years.

“The next wave (of foreclosures) is coming next year and in 2010, and that is primarily due to these pay-option ARMS and the five-year, adjustable-rate hybrid ARMS that are coming up for reset,” said William Longbrake, retired vice chairman of Washington Mutual. The giant Seattle-based bank, which collapsed this year under the weight of its bad mortgage loans, was one of the biggest originators of pay-option ARMs during the lending boom.

The next wave may be even more difficult to handle than the last one.

“It’s going to get tougher to modify loans as these option ARMs come into their resets," Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. Chairwoman Sheila Bair told msnbc.com this week. "Those are more difficult than the subprime and traditional adjustable rates to modify because there is such a huge payment differential when they reset."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28035238/
Old 12-11-2008, 11:56 AM
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I remember that. Payment Option ARM's always paid fantastic commission to the brokers. They always picked that one.
Old 12-11-2008, 12:10 PM
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HMMMM, lots of forclosures in 2010 you say, good deals to be had in 2011 you say......
Old 12-11-2008, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Doom878
I remember that. Payment Option ARM's always paid fantastic commission to the brokers. They always picked that one.
I didn't know that! So banks were paying more for production of loans which were riskier, to both the bank and the borrower, due to potential negative amortization and resetting at a higher rate??
Old 12-11-2008, 02:48 PM
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Technically the fully amortized interest rate of the POA's were higher than the fixed. Obviously lenders' pricing varied but I worked for the big dawg, Countrywide.
Old 12-12-2008, 10:37 AM
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I appraise in the PNW. I do not think anything will get better any time soon. Only because people are still losing jobs. And then there are those that have lost/losing their homes and those that are already unemployed, leaves a HUGE amount of people out of the loop to buy.

I am seeing some Sales come through, but all those are Bank Owned or short sale properties at rock bottom prices.

Even me, I just put in an offer on a 2 bedroom/1 bath condo that needs work. Asking right now is $100k and I offered $80k. And I ain't budging.
Old 12-12-2008, 11:32 AM
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As painful as the decline has been, history suggests home values still may have a long way to drop and may take decades to return to the heights of 2˝ years ago.

"We will never see these prices again in our lifetime, when you adjust for inflation," says Peter Schiff, president of investment firm Euro Pacific Capital of Darien, Conn. "These were lifetime peaks."

The boom in home prices — fueled by heavily leveraged loans built on low or even no down payments — made it easy to forget that housing values had been remarkably stable for a half-century after World War II, rising at roughly the same pace as income and inflation. Prices soared in most of the country — especially in Arizona, California, Florida and Nevada and metro areas of Washington, D.C., and New York — during a brief period of easy lending, especially from 2002 to 2006. That era's over.

So far, home values nationally have tumbled an average of 19% from their peak. As bad as that is, prices would need to fall as least 17% more to reach their traditional relationship to household income, according to a USA TODAY analysis of home prices since 1950. In that scenario, a $300,000 house in 2006 could be worth about $200,000 when real estate prices hit bottom.

The price plunge has wiped out trillions of dollars in home equity and caused the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. Susan Wachter, professor of real estate at the University of Pennsylvania, fears that foreclosures and tight credit could send home prices falling to the point that millions of families and thousands of banks are thrust into insolvency.

"Homes are different than other goods and services," she says. "The fragility of our banking system is tied to the value of homes."

Home values have fallen before — during the Great Depression and in Texas after a 1980s oil boom, for example — but those drops were a response to other economic forces. This time, the housing price collapse is the cause of the nation's broad economic troubles, not just an effect.

"If we have another 20% decline in prices, we'll need another bailout of banks similar to what we just did," Wachter says.

Other economists see a brighter picture in the long term. Wachovia economist Adam York expects home values to keep falling until 2010 but is optimistic they will recover.

"The one saving grace is the population is growing by 3 million people a year," he says. "They need to live somewhere. That means more roofs."

Until recently, homes were stable, unspectacular investments, not get-rich-quick schemes.

Nationally, the typical existing home was worth roughly the same in 2000 as it was in 1950, after adjusting for inflation, according to Yale University economist Robert Shiller.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition...s12_cv.art.htm
Old 12-12-2008, 12:27 PM
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I hope that's true. We just bought a place.
Old 12-12-2008, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver™
As painful as the decline has been, history suggests home values still may have a long way to drop and may take decades to return to the heights of 2˝ years ago.
Originally Posted by jlukja
I hope that's true. We just bought a place.
Old 12-12-2008, 02:54 PM
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I think he's saying he thinks he got it at the bottom. Nothing but slow equity growth from here assuming we did bottom out.
Old 12-12-2008, 04:50 PM
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I posted that in response to a quote I thought I saw in the post above mine. It said something about real estate bottoming out in California. I can't seem to find it now.
Old 12-12-2008, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jlukja
I posted that in response to a quote I thought I saw in the post above mine. It said something about real estate bottoming out in California. I can't seem to find it now.
Well, if your home value continues to go down you can always just stop paying your mortgage and enjoy the ensuing windfall. It could be the single most prudent thing you ever do.
Old 12-12-2008, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by phil2
No you don't...FHA is 97% financing and allows a 6% seller concession for closing costs!
interesting
Old 12-15-2008, 08:39 AM
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I love the economy. I went from $1480 adjustable to $993 fixed. No closing costs.
Old 01-08-2009, 09:05 PM
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No Recovery for Real Estate as Speculators Dominate Sales

As the U.S. housing recession enters its fourth year, there’s no sign of a recovery because speculators account for most of the rise in sales.

While the purchases are trimming the inventory of unsold properties, most of those bought by speculators will likely return to the market when prices rise again, hampering any recovery, said Nobel laureate economist Joseph Stiglitz and Yale University Professor Robert Shiller in interviews.

“We’re creating a shadow inventory of homes that will be right back on the market as soon as the economy and the housing market begin to improve,” said Stiglitz, a Columbia University professor of economics. “We could see a double-dip in the housing recession if that happens.”

Banks owned a record $11.5 billion of repossessed homes in the U.S. at the end of the third quarter, according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. Foreclosures accounted for almost half of all U.S. purchases in November and homes in default helped increase sales 83 percent in California.

There were an average 3,100 foreclosures per day in the U.S. in November, according to RealtyTrac Inc., an Irvine, California real estate data company. That’s triple the 1,000 per day average in 1933, the worst year of the Great Depression, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. The repossessed properties offer opportunities for investors, who typically buy homes at auction and rent them out until prices increase and they can sell.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=apFMheiIZtPo
Old 01-28-2009, 06:31 PM
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Fannie Mae Foreclosure Sale at 50 Cents on $1 Shows Price Reset

With a sharp nod, Robert Parkin bids $500,000 at the auction of a brick colonial house in Upper Marlboro, Maryland, that the builder once valued at $1.1 million.

Seconds later, a competitor counters at $510,000, and Parkin must decide whether to raise his limit on the unfinished, 4,878- square-foot property with a stop-work order taped to the window.

This auction, 19 miles (30.6 kilometers) southeast of Washington, is one of hundreds a day carried out on front lawns and in hotel ballrooms nationwide by liquidators such as Williams & Williams Marketing Services Inc. of Tulsa, Oklahoma. With 2.3 million residences in foreclosure, the sales are pushing down prices to early 2004 levels in the hunt for new buyers.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aOBlBuWQf9ko
Old 01-28-2009, 07:43 PM
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Homes in the area I'm looking to get into are priced near 2003 levels right now. I got an e-mail this morning for a fixer that went on the market today. My realtor e-mailed me this afternoon regarding this and a few other properties. When I checked this property again, it was already in escrow. That's pretty much unheard of, but people are buying when things are priced to sell.

It didn't really matter much to me, since we're not ready to move on any property at the moment.
Old 02-03-2009, 06:20 PM
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U.S. Pending Home Resales Rise as Prices, Rates Drop

More Americans signed contracts to buy previously owned homes in December for the first time in four months, signaling slumping prices may be boosting demand.

The index of pending home resales climbed 6.3 percent to 87.7, the first increase since August, from a revised 82.5 in November, the National Association of Realtors said in a report today in Washington. Pending sales rose in two of four regions.

Record foreclosures are pushing down home values, making homes more affordable for those buyers able to get financing. Still, restrictive lending rules and further price declines are likely to scare away the majority of purchasers, indicating the real-estate recession will persist for a fourth year in 2009.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aiy2is1cJwJY
Old 02-05-2009, 04:18 PM
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U.S. housing markets from Florida to California have suffered price drops of 50 percent or more from their peak, but now, at long last, a bottom is within sight, likely in the fourth quarter nationally, according to a report from Moody's Economy.com.

By the end of the housing downturn, nearly 62 percent of the nation's 381 metropolitan areas will have experienced double-digit-percent declines in house prices, peak-to-trough, says the report by chief economist Mark Zandi and a team that includes Celia Chen, senior director of housing economics.

The declines will exceed 20 percent in about 100 metro areas, according to the report, scheduled to be discussed in a Webcast on Thursday. An advance copy was given exclusively to Reuters.

Despite the gloomy data, the report, by an independent subsidiary of Moody's Corp, paints an improving picture of the housing market, which is in the midst of its worst downturn since the Great Depression and is both the source and a major casualty of the world credit crisis.

An improvement could portend a turnaround for the world's largest economy and help stanch losses at U.S. banks, hit hard by soured mortgage securities.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...5140H420090205
Old 02-05-2009, 08:33 PM
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U.S. Housing Slump Has ‘Just Begun,’ Says Forecaster Talbott



Let’s say you own a $1 million home in Santa Barbara, California.

The house seemed like a steal when you bought it with that adjustable-rate mortgage in 2005. You still love the white beaches and those yachts bobbing up and down in the harbor.

Then you awaken early one morning, troubled that your monthly payments will soon double. You go out to pick up your newspaper and see for-sale signs on five houses on the street. One identical to yours just sold for $500,000.

Are you going to pay the bank $1 million plus interest for your place? John R. Talbott, a former investment banker for Goldman Sachs, poses that hypothetical question in his latest book of financial prophesy, “Contagion.”

His answer: “I don’t think so,” he says. “If I’m right, then this housing decline has only just begun.”

Talbott is an oracle with a track record: His previous books predicted the collapse of both the housing bubble and the tech-stock binge before it. A friend who runs a New York steak house introduces him as Johnny Nostradamus, he says.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a8mdg7z0u7Dw


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