dallison

are places like convenience stores allowed to deny a cc purchase if it was under a certain $$ amount?

i know they pay fees on each transaction. but it seems illegal to do so. i searched for info and couldnt find what i was looking for.

doopstr

They used to but now the agreement they sign with Visa/MC says that they are not permitted to do that.

iTimmy

The merchant agreement with the major credit card companies has changed a bit over the years and the rules are more strictly enforced. Its not that they will take your ability to recieve credit cards from you, they will just increase their percentage, with some cards its already pretty high(Discover and American express for example). Another huge no no is offering a lower cash price, like you see in a lot of gun stores, if the credit card companies catch wind of that it will really piss them off.

But there is no minimum, 1.5% is the same weather its on $0.25 or $250.00, another thing that impacts your merchant rate is the volume of transactions and the average ticket price, if either are high you get a better rate, though there is no corelation between the two, i.e. if you have a high volume of transactions, but a low average ticket price they do not punish you, you just don't get the bonus for the high average ticket price. What's most important to them is low percentage of charge backs, low percentage of disputed charges and a steady increase, which is probably the biggest factor. When I first started taking American express they were elated with me, in 5 months I grew 1100% or something like that, they sent me cases of American express advertising shit, and the funny thing is I only did maybe 100 AE transactions, it was just HUGE growth coming from nothing so they wanted to help in any way they could. Sort of like a sub penny stock that goes to a dollar, it looks more impressive then it really is.

dallison

so what can i do to report places that have minimums?
i went to get milk yersterday and they required a $10 minimum,
shit like that pisses me off

iTimmy

Call the 800 number on the back of your card and give them the address and name of the place that did it to you. If you are having trouble getting a human use this site www.gethuman.com/us, follow the directions based on your bank/credit card company and it should be pretty easy. $10 minimum is pretty foolish.

mrdeeno

Seriously, was it that much of an EMEREGENCY that you couldn't drive to the next store or that you couldn't get enough cash together to purchase less than $10 worth of something without using your credit card?

Do you think YOUR complaint with the credit card company is going to make much difference? The store probably already knows that its minimum charge is prohibited, and they might have been "warned" by the credit card company before...is it really that big of a deal that you have to report them?

I would protest with my money...i'd take my money to a store that's more "convenient". it's much easier to drive to another store and buy my milk, a pack of cigarettes, and a snapple and pay with a credit card than it is to try to change to a store whose policies inconvenienced me by being pissed off and reporting them to the credit card company.

But that's just me...i'm not going to put effort into whining over something that doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme of things...besides, i don't think $10 is too inconvenient to carry around either.

98CLChick

Ok, I see this situation from both sides (I almost always use my debit card, but I also work for my dad who owns a mom and pop shop). I completely understand the convenience of paying for everything with a debit card, but it gets really annoying to run through a $1.25 charge for a slurpee. It's easier to carry $5 cash on you!

F-C

If they deny your purchase, just threaten that you will report them. I've done this a few times, and they always give in at the end.

iTimmy

Its a lot cheaper to just give in then deal with any problems, coming from the merchant side of things.

I don't care if someone is charging $4k or $0.40, money's money and if its there's and now becoming mine, I am all for it.

yunginTL

i wouldn't give a fuck if i was the employee, my boss always said no CC transactions under $5, but i'd be ringin up a pack of gum for customers

moeronn

This relates to the "Do you carry cash" type threads we've had here a few times. Purchases under $5-$10 should not be allowed by any means requiring a PIN or signature (check, debit or CC) because it's an inconvenience to everyone in line behind you

iTimmy

I am the boss where I work, I still don't care.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Hmm????? I did not know this. There's a pizza place by me that has a $15 min on any credit card purchase. Think I'll report them.

moeronn

BTW, is this a Quickie Mart? Does Jesal have a career path working for your father?

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Most of the time I carry anywhere from $1 to $10 on me... but generally I have about $6 or so. I just don't carry cash. It's better off in a bank or in a CD or something where it's making money. We put just about EVERYTHING on our credit card. This way we get reward points for it and our money stays invested. Then I just take out what I need when the bill comes, then rinse and repeat each month.

If a store has a sign that indicates a minimum purchase, and I am not over that minimum, I just don't buy whatever it is. But all of the major stores we shop at take a CC regardless of amount, so I've never run into this problem.

dallison

i can understand both sides, but the way of the future is not using regular cash. i have my check direct deposited so i never have to go to a bank.
you can put a tip on a cc and i can buy a paper with a cc, just like jb, i don't buy at that location if i need a minimum purchase and don't need to buy more to get the minimum

subinf

I feel like an asshole when I run my car for anything less than around 10 dollars so I try to avoid that. It isn't very hard to carry actual cash on you. Its quick and easy.

mrdeeno

i agree...cash is not the way of the future, but that's why they call a cashless society the way of the future and not way of the current. In the current, which is today and the day that you bought your milk, we still use cash.

The mom and pop convenience stores...usually the ones with the minimum charge amounts, are dying out and being replaced by the larger convenience stores like Wawa or Sheetz, or Valeros, etc. etc.

But until then, personally I wouldn't make such a big deal out of it. My efforts and peace of mind is better spent driving to the next station or store that doesn't have a minimum credit charge amount than it is spending time and effort to report a complaint to a credit card company, when i know that chances are my complaints would not produce any results anyway.

F-C

I don't think that is true, why else does the merchants always give in if I threaten them? If they aren't afraid of the consequences, they would just throw me out of the store. Normally, if the merchant does not accept my credit card for a small purchase, and there is another store next to it that does, then I would take my business elsewhere. However, most of the time that I argue with a store is when it is the only store in the area that is selling the product that I want. In that case, it is fair game to 'make a bid deal out of it.'

mrdeeno

Who said anything about threatening the merchant? You can go around "threatening" merchants so you can charge your $5.99 to your card, but i doubt it has anything to do with fear of your "threats"...but rather they would put their efforts into something else than defending themselves against your "threats", so they'll make an exception and let you charge $5.99.

This is not what I or the discussion is talking about. You are threatening them so the merchant can make an exception for you, and exception or not, they still don't change their minimum charge policy. The discussion involves reporting them to a credit card company so they change their minimum charge policy, not about making exceptions for an individual customer.

And as in your example shows, it's easier to get a merchant to make an exception to a standing policy than it is to get the merchant to change or remove its policy, I've had plenty of merchants make exceptions for me to keep a customer happy, yet their policy remains unchanged.

and my opinion still stands that:

iTimmy

^^^ That's fine and dandy, but as a merchant, its against your agreement to do things like discounts for cash, minimum purchase requirements, etc. To me its more about honoring my agreement, I take my word seriously and expect other's to as well. I personally always carry a few hundred dollars in cash and 2 personal(1 Visa and 1 MC) and 3 company cards(2 MC and 1 Visa) and one company debit card, so little things are never an issue(in fact I had a defective magnetic strip on my personal card just last week, and it only slowed me down for 2 minutes at the store I was at, always have a back up plan)

I run $750-900k through my terminal a year and it really makes no difference by having a few small charges, $5 is worth running to me it all adds up.

mrdeeno

And just because it's illegal to speed, does that mean people don't do it? If the speed limit is 55mph, and I'm driving 55mph and see a guy fly by at 65mph, should I call the cops and report him because if i have no reason to speed, he has no reason to speed?

Same with any business or merchant. Some follow rules, some don't. For some merchants, charging $1 on a credit card makes no difference to them...to others, it does. For you, it's about honoring your agreement. for other merchants, maybe they don't care about honoring their agreement or they are more concerned with their own convenience, or any number of reasons for not doing like you.

My point is, is it really necessary to make such a big deal about it that I would have to report them to a credit card company? Last time i looked, I'm not the "merchant police", and it's probably easier and more effective to ask the merchant to make an exception to their rule than it is to take the time and effort to call a credit card company and report a complaint, hoping that the credit card company has enough of the same complaints to contact the merchant and ask the merchant to not do it, and even then there is no reason to believe the merchant would comply.

So instead of going through all that, i'd rather drive on down the street to the next store or keep an extra $10 in my car or pocket. Guaranteed results with a hell of a lot less effort.

iTimmy

Can't argue your point, and like I always say, speak with the dollar its the only thing everyone seems to understand these days

F-C

It's not a lot of effort and its not a big deal. It's basic negotiation. What's so difficult about a simple argument over a minimum purchase? The most it takes is one or two minutes. It takes a lot more effort to get back in the car and drive somewhere else. Besides, like I said, most of the time I argue because it is the only store that carries the product I want, and I don't want to buy something else just to meet the minimum.

mrdeeno

are you still caught up on this arguing with the merchant thing?

that is not what this discussion is focused on, and I even agree with you that it's not a big deal to get the merchant to make an exception...hence: but again, we are NOT talking about getting a merchant to make an exception for individual cases.

if you go back and read through the discussion (and hopefully comprehend the gist of it), the discussion regards complaining to a credit card agency in order to get a merchant to repeal his minimum charge policy.

1) You want to talk about complaining to the merchant so he makes an exception for you, and express how little effort/easy it is, then I agree with you...there's nothing to argue about.

2) but if we stay in line with the discussion and you are saying that it is easy and not much effort to report a merchant to a credit card agency, and wait for them to collect enough complaints in order to take action against the merchant, and then wait for the merchant to comply or not, then no, I disagree that it is not easy or takes little effort. And the better alternative is to stick a $10 in your pocket or keep driving.

dallison

i am very efficient in what i do, i will not go out of my way to get something, but i am also very cheap and will wait

mrdeeno

me too...which is why i would either have at least $10 in my pocket, or know which stores in my area doesn't have a minimum charge amount.

Sure, you could be in an unknown area and not have $10 and find a store with a minimum charge amount, but then again, if you're out of your area, you're most likely visiting this area and probably won't be frequenting this merchant ever again anyway...so would it make any difference if you reported them to a credit card company or not, considering you probably won't ever be in that store again? Besides, if it was really an emergency, i'm sure the merchant would still make an exception.

being efficient means not holding grudges, seeking "revenge" or slowing yourself down just because of life's little inconveniences...such as minimum credit card charge amounts. It's actually funny how people make such big deals out of nothing (especially in this country) because of little inconveniences. The effort required to just move on to an alternative is so much lower than the effort I see people actually put in to seek "revenge" or "make a statement" (women are usually very "inefficient" in this way...something about their emotions or something).

Besides, these stores are dying out anyway...i only know of 1 place in my area that has that policy, and they're just a little pizza place meaning they won't be stocking "emergency" supplies that I would NEED when i had no cash.

driver centric

I've had this happen numerous times and I tell the merchant that they're in violation of the policy and take my business elsewhere. To date, I have only reported one merchant that got particularly indignant. Here is a link to the actual Visa policy and instructions on what to do if this occurs:

http://usa.visa.com/about_visa/ask_v....html#anchor_4

Mastercard has similar regulations but I don't have a link to their policy online.

dallison

thanks for the link

kensteele

that's my 3rd pet peeve when it comes to using my credit card.

my first is when they ask you for a photo id....
my second is when they try to charge you extra to use your card....

I once called my local bank who issued the credit card (as instructed in that link) and the bank rep had to never to tell me that the merchant is permitted to establish their own rules and there's nothing [the bank] can do about it.

i wasn't even going to argue with the bank to then argue with the merchant. next time i call visa directly. otherwise i use amex (banks do issue amex) but i use the amex blue by....amex. so i can call them directly since i think they have similar policy.

http://www.gofso.com/Premium/LE/06_l...Merchants.html

yunginTL

i disagree with the ask for a photo id....i mean people like u are what piss me off, the id is used to prevent fraud...i stop sooo many people from fraudulent transactions because of that....its so easy to find a card and charge it up before it gets cancelled...its just for ur own good and people still get pissed at me when i ask em...like wtfff its for ur own good anyway...

subinf

i dont have a problem when they ask for id. what is annoying is having the credit card company put a hold on your card when it is out of state and call you to ask if you are using the card. i appreciate the effort, but i keep enough track of my own shit to know when someone is using my number.

mrdeeno

i thought that merchants were supposed to "verify" identification, usually by asking for ID.

Most usually don't, and i've only been asked for ID a handful of times. But honestly, anyone can grab anyone else's card and start using it if there were a rule that merchants were prohibited from checking IDs.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

The famous, "it can never happen to me b/c I'm so careful" line. I'd be willing to bet that 99.98% of the people who have had their cards used without their knowledge all said the same thing as you. I am also very careful, but one time one of our cards which we hardly use, keep great track of, and has never been online was charged for plane tickets to Italy... $1700. That was it, nothing else, just the tickets. Card company thought it was odd, called, I verified we had not been there, and when the statement came I called back and it was wiped from the account.

Bottom line is you will never know when someone steals your card numbers. This is why I have no problem with them calling me to verify out of state or large purchases or someone asking for my photo ID at a store.

kensteele

there is a rule prohibiting checking a photo id to use a major credit card. did you not read my link?

here's the problem. some merchants ask for id, some do not. then there is a question of what kind of id is acceptable and what isn't. is an expired dl good? it's still that person....

and then you have the merchant who allows the guy in front making a $500 to walk without id, and the woman up next making a $12 to break out the id.

rules are rules. no id is required to use a credit card. run the charge, get the auth code, check the signature, let it go. don't ask for id from people you are suspicious about, it only creates hostility and inconvenience. particularly when some merchants then try to copy some information off your id as if to "properly validate" the credit card purchase.

kensteele

hate me if you want but i'm only following the rules.

my dl is for the cops, not for the merchants. it contains my personal information including my birthdate, my address, and maybe by ssn. not for the merchant, none of his business.

my passport is for entry and exit for non-domestic travel.

what kind of id exactly are you looking for?

subinf

I only have one credit card. Anyway, I'm fine with the first phone call - that makes sense to cover their ass. When I tell them that I will always be traveling and to not block any charges and they say ok and then cal three more times it is excessive and annoying and a huge waste of my time to explain it over and over. I'm not ignorant to think that it won't ever happen to me, I am pretty sure it will. Fact of the matter is that they are wasting more of their time calling over and over - if I get a bum charge, call them up, they send me the affidavits, and its taken care of.

I don't have a problem with stores asking for photo ids.

kensteele

agreed with everything except this. asking for photo ID at the store will not stop the criminal. there is no proof of this, no evidence whatsoever, if there is show me? even if the merchant says so. criminal just takes his card and go somewhere where he can use it, which is many other places.

merchant can just ask the suspicious person to go away (without even asking for ID at all), does that making merchant-denial a viable credit card fraud fighting tool?

don't get me wrong. the day the credit card issuers decide photo-ID is required is the day I jump on the bandwagon and run with it. until them, i can't be subjected to the random checking that is going on with IDs.

Just the other day, I went to the UPS counter, filled out the ship-from and ship-to address and the clerk asked me for ID to prove that I was the ship-from. Imagine that. I showed him (because I was shipping ammunition and it is rare that I visit the UPS counter so forget the hassle) but unless there is sign or a UPS rules that requires it, you can bet there won't be any ID shown to ship a package.

kensteele

and just for you record, YOU showing your id to the merchant doesn't help ME one bit. it doesn't change my personal risk at all. You can argue that reducing overall fraud ultimately benefits the cardholder but honestly, I think the card issuers manages a threshold that won't permit you to see any of the benefit at all.

kensteele

you will one day. when it is applied inconsistantly and inconveniently to you, you will. trust me.