What's up Azine. So I come here usually a few times a year to check up on you guys. Stopped posting mostly b/c I got busy blah blah blah. Quick recap since I left.

- Got a promotion to Risk Account Manager at a financial company
- Finally got rid of my '99 Acura TL and now drive a '10 VW CC

The Problem:
- Got a promotion, argued and received a 15% raise, they wouldn't go higher
- Company changed policies and now hires new hires for my current position at 30% more salary than before, they also applied this to my old position. They did not raise current employee pay to match.
- Because of the department policy change my old postion, if you are a new hire, now makes more than my current postion by a few thousand dollars.
- They did not change hiring requirements so the same education and experience is needed.

Now technically I shouldn't know this but I'm friends with managers in different sections of my same department and I was told this occurred by multiple parties. Moral is way down and this only fanned the flames.

Has anyone been in the same postion? What did you do if you were?

Performance based I decreased losses by 27% overall for my accounts this year and being the only person who knows SQL, JavaScript, and VBscript I've automated processes and reporting for the department. I wanted to use this to argue for more money but if they give me the normal 3% should I bring up that I know they hire people for more now?

 

wow...return of the living dead...sup dude.

No clue how to answer your question. Last time I had a day job and was in this position I walked when I wasn't given a due raise considering what I knew and the jobs i performed. Couldn't have been happier.

So...it all depends on what you're willing to do in the end.

 

Ha! Yeah I still lurk around but I'm barely on the interwebs in general. My flickr and facebook have been lagging. You still a camera man?

I'm currently looking for another job but I dont have a finance degree, I moved up due to experience and I can code so no call backs.

 

Yeah, still a cameraman....thats never going to change...

 

HEY BABY! Where you been!?

 

Iunno who you are.

That said, I know you think you might have a hard time finding another job, but it is worth it to get out and see what the market is like so if you get a competitive offer, you have some usable ammo to use when asking your superior for a raise.

Is there any way to get ahold of the policy on paper and bring that to your superior?

 

Well if it isn't MikeyTampa Jesus Juice


Who are you arguing to about this? Your direct boss that you see every day and sees the work you do? Or someone else?

I'd definitely bring it up, get their view on things. Sounds like you're getting the shaft.

 

Who the hell?

 

Congrats on the CC

 

Hope you have a good reunion!
Despite many misgivings, I have to agree with Scotty here.

It sounds like the problem is higher up though, and that HR is inept.
Are the new hires required to have financial degrees? If so, that'll be the company's justification for your salary.

G/L.

 

@Whiskers I'm your old business partner here to show you how greed has tainted your taint.
@Stunna What up, you still with OSI? My friend left the company to become a doctor.
@Moog Yeah I love it. Although I am a bit afraid of when the warranty runs out what will happen but so far so good.
@Aman I'm a old poster from before there was an iPhone and Facebook hadn't rolled out to other schools yet.

As for getting the policy in hand, I probably can't. I was hoping I could find job postings online that outlined the salary range but haven't been lucky there either.

@Scotty & Will

I am having my review with my director, the same person who gave me 2/3rds of my awards for going above and beyond this year (coded an html/javascript page that could compute the authenticity of a product we use for the analyst and built multiple custom queries). He's constantly saying I'm one of the best guys there so lets see if he'll fork it up on merit alone so I dont have to bring up the new hires.

 

Have the discussion with your boss, don't come off like an entitled prick though. Frame the discussion in terms of equity and performance. Obviously you have done some things to improve efficiencies in the office so don't be afraid to mention how those changes add value to the company and save them money through man hours etc. I'm not sure if your director is your report too or his report too but I would have the discussion with your direct report too before going past him, at least given them the opportunity to have the conversation with their boss. If you go straight to HR or your bosses boss you will just piss everyone off.

I had similar discussions at my workplace and what worked for me was organizing my thoughts on paper along with things that I have done that add value to the company so that when I had the talk with my boss I had all the facts there on a 1 pager for him to see. Having it written down in concise form gave him talking points for when he has to justify it to both his boss and HR.

Goodluck, I'm sure you'll get what you deserve.

Edit: This isn't twitter.

 

Did it work for you?

Me and a buddy of mine, we both were promoted from the same position to the current position, are both going to ask for raises. He is in a different part of the same department but he's also has exceeded expectation and now trains people, I do as well. Thurs is my review so

 

Good luck!

 

wow JJ... one of the OGers... hope all is well...

i worked in the comp space so have seen this happen before.... how long have you been at this company? did you slowly work your way up the ranks to get to your current title/salary? you also have to think about these externals coming in at your level... do they have more years of experience than you do? if you were promoted to manager, and this is your first manager role, you can't expect the compensation to be on par with someone coming from a competitor with 5 yrs under their belt...

this is a no brainer but external hires will ALWAYS be compensated hirer than internals as that is what the organization needs to attract the talent... since you aren't at an entry level, the gap will just naturally just be higher... some companies who promote within don't always give the proportional raise to match even the base pay of the new title... i even seen promotions given without a pay rise... this happened to me at my old organization which eventually led to me leaving...

so what can you do about it? do your research... you already know that you cannot use the information you heard from your manager friends... you don't know for sure if the information is true and/or have any concrete evidence... have you tried to do any research on salary.com? another good website is glassdoor.com... you can search for your company and find avg salary by title/grade... this can give you some firepower when you meet with your boss during review time... obviously you have the performance to prove you add value to the company... if your manager truly believes that you add value, they will fight for you... if you have an official performance review system where scoring is given to you, make sure everything in there is clean... if you had developmental areas to achieve and goals to meet, there can't be holes in your case, or you won't have a leg to stand on...

good luck... and no matter how much money you make, it is never enough

 

What up Kam

Oh how I wish that was the case. Here's the skinny. They hired 2 guys when I was an analyst both had masters and exp. I became friends with one and we both moved up at the same time to managers of different sections. We talked over beers and he told me his pay (higher but I chucked it up to years of experience and masters).

Then they hired 2 analyst to replace us and 2 other managers. None have experience, one was a waitress before this but is related to an AVP. They all came in at my buddy's pay, found this out later. Him and I were upset because we knew our company didn't pay as much but we thought it was the company itself. Come to find out they raised pay and all this time have been telling us no cash to do it for us.

Trust me if these guys had experience or masters it wouldn't bother me but all the new hires are related to either an AVP, director, or someone else influential at our place. All have BA's and none have experience. I had to teach one that ctrl+shift arrow down highlighted a whole row in excel.

 

JJ.

 

got a promotion, raise, and increased my bonus %

 

This is where I am now, I started my career with this company and even though I have been promoted etc and gotten good raises every year I'm still behind industry average for my position, time to make a move me thinks.

 

Hate to say it, but no real surprise here. I'm not saying it happens everywhere, but it happens. My last employer, which was large and family owned, was really bad about this (part of my job was working with all payroll info).

 

Don't be afraid to pull the race card! It's black history month they legally have to give you everything you ask for during February! That White guilt is a mother fucker, that shit elected a black president!

 

Naw I peaced out from LRS over a year ago and I'm doing IT for a bunch of small businesses in the area. Which is weird with that whole not knowing anything about technology and talking out of my ass 90% of the time....

 

that is weird...cause its still true.

 

there are two ways you can approach this... the easiest being to find another job and walk... if you want to try and negotiate this, then you have to be careful because those related to the higher ups will always get special treatment...

they are telling you there is no cash for u guys because they already given it to the others... if you only have 10 to give, and they already given out 6, you will always be left with 4... at the end of the day, what is healthy for the company is what you can deliver and not who you just know and only do an average job... im not sure what specific industry you are in, but have you been affected by the crisis? is your company going through any lay offs? if yes, surely management has to be looking across their heads and seeing who is worth their paycheck... if it is good management, then they can easily trim off the dead wood... if they can't recognize it, then u don't want to work there anyway...

nonetheless like i said before, you need to do your research and get the average numbers... something concrete you can take into your review to fight for yourself... if you did a good job, then obviously you always want to aim for the top of the average... but make sure you have the evidence so they can put your money where your mouth is... i used to be very humble and modest in my earlier days, and i knew i would always get burned one way or another... but i learned, if i don't toot my own horn, then who will? you are always your best #1 promoter...

feel free to PM if you want to talk more specifics for you..

time to jump ship my friend... the only way to substantially increase your base pay is to move around... 5% internal annual raises, if you are lucky, won't match a 25% raise by switching companies... why do you think they always prefer to promote within? there are many arguments i can give why it is sometimes better to bring someone senior from the outside...but it won't be cheap...

where's the red text? otherwise this isn't R&P...

 

Well I have been agreeing with you a lot lately...

 

JJ

 

Makes no sense. No employer will hire less qualified people for more $ (total salary + benefits) than somebody that knows more- at least any smart employer. Most smart employers will give you an 'adjustment' without you even asking because they see an imbalance. Employers know people will bolt if they find out about this stuff.

My guess is there is something missing in the benefits package for the new hires than what the OP has. If not, OP it's time to find a new job somewhere else- make sure you don't cave in and accept any counter offer when it comes time to give notice. If you're that underpaid, a counter will be coming.

 

Update:

The Short

I don't know but I'm pretty sure I got shafted. Why don't I know? Because they dont tell you your raise till April. Why do I think I got shafted? Because I got a "Meets Requirements" on my review.

The Long

Ok so my manager didn't do my review, our new director did. Why? Because he is power hungry and literally has it out for my manager.

Our new director was over us only 3 months of last year and because we had a 2% increase in losses he felt no one should get "Exceeds Expectations." Why did we get an increase in losses? Our company started taking on riskier clients that surprise made us lose money.

I spoke to him about the 3 awards I received for working overtime, no extra pay, and getting jobs done others couldn't. He said I need a better work and life balance and that even though I did all the extra work we still didn't reach our goal so it doesn't matter.

One of the major reasons we didn't reach are goal is that we continually have technical problems that corrupt our algorithms because the company doesn't want to invest in better servers and more IT. This and taking on riskier clients is a recipe for disaster. He responded that we need to educate the sales people, the ones who sign up the riskier clients, and create our own backend monitoring to alert IT when things are going on. Two things that aren't my job and will take a lot more work to do others jobs who make more than us.

Is my company losing money or was it recently hit hard?
No, last quarter we were in the black 1.2 billion and we control the majority of our industry.

Conclusion:
I and everyone else on our team are looking for other jobs either in other departments or preferably outside the company. Thanks for the advice but I think short of me telling them I know they are screwing me, which I dont want to do because technically I shouldn't know others salaries but word gets around.

 

I think their angle was to get people with education but no experience in so they'd be loyal to the company and want to move up? I dunno but we are having a meeting soon based on the fact that the new hires just aren't cutting it and that we need find out how to motivate or train them better so they can do their job. Again all of these new hires are relatives or friends of higher ups.

 

Sorry to hear.
It sounds like your analysis is correct, and that the new director is a douchebag. "Better work and life balance" is an asinine judgment to make for a work evaluation unless work quality is suffering from overwork. Not rewarding you because others did not meet goals is moronic as well.

 

time to walk

 

JJ, you are correct that you need to GTFO of there. I once had a similar situation and stayed there too long. Wasted years.

 

Salary compression is a big issue in faculty salaries. It's like taking a round rug in a square room for administrators.

You don't have any cards to play... like race, sexual orientation, etc.

Most places it is forbidden to talk about salaries. Luckily in the public sector all that info is common knowledge, so you can use it.

As a personal capitalism sort of person, I would do less so you ROI is more. And document everything. HR folks love to document, but when they are being documented, they get pissed.

 

Yeah I have an interview for a business analyst position coming up so hopefully

We had another company scalping us, one of our former VP's moved over to work risk for a bank and would cherry pick former employees, but she was asked by our current president to stop. The last person she took was my former boss when I was a level 1 analyst. I talk to him sometimes and he even agreed we were getting shafted because he was as well.

 

Damn I missed a JJ sighting?

Good luck with your interview!