I'm ready to step up to 1080p! I have a 55in Hitachi and was a great unit when I got it a couple of years back but it's only 720p.

Now I'm shopping for a comparable size but in 1080p. I'm open to LCD too but my main concern is picture quality and non-ridiculous pricing.

I'm going to be putting it in a bright room but I'll probably pick up some curtains to block the light during the day so that shouldn't be an issue.

Lots of reviews say the V10 series is good but I was hoping the gurus in here can steer me in the right direction.

 

Absoluetly love my G15. By all accounts the V is a big step up so I can't see you going wrong with one. In my research from last summer apparently only the Kuro's have better PQ but good luck finding one.

 

I love my Panasonic plasma, but have you looked at the Samsung LED's, the price keeps dropping on them and they look pretty cool

 

yeah, the Kuros are big money too!!!

I've read up a little on the Samsungs but reviews seem to still point towards plasma over LEDs. And aren't the Samsungs supposed to buzz? Or is that a myth?

I like the idea of LCD/LED just because they perform better in really bright rooms. Which series of Samsungs compare to the V10s?

 

Assuming you are going to spend roughly $2,300, My personal preference would be to spend the extra $200 for the Samsung UN55B8000 55-Inch 1080p 240 Hz LED HDTV.

My Brother just picked this up from Best Buy for $2,500 and it is absolutely beautiful.

In all honesty though, I have yet to see the specific Panny you have listed above...

 

What I like is that it delivers a great picture while looking good. The Panasonic seem boring in comparison

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...-33740174.html

 

I'll definitely go check out the Samsung too. Gotta wait until the end of the month though.

 

Panasonic V10 is 2009, the new Panasonic v25 will be out soon. That's what you'll want to compare too.

LED LCD's are bright and punchy looking to sell. They do not have accurate color or good black levels. Most people think the bright and punchy looks better in the store. But once you get it home and watch it for awhile you'll realize it's not.

It's just the marketing to the "thin is in" crowd. Not videophile.

And the only reason 120/240hz exists is to try and circumvent LCD's motion resolution short comings.

Google "sample and hold LCD". And you'll learn about why LCD has to have high refresh rates to attempt to get non-blurring motion.

This is a good article; just remember 120/240hz is there to try and fix a flaw with LCD and how you see motion. It's not there to enhance...

http://www.hemagazine.com/240Hz


Good luck and enjoy whatever it is you end up buying

 

You want some element of motion blur...without it things look fake. Part of Persistence of Vision is the ability of your eye to interpolate motion between frames. This includes some blur.

The high refresh rates on LCDs/LEDs are craptastic marketing points and should only ever be turned on if you are watching sports in HD...

To watch a movie or TV running 120hz or 240hz, looks like complete and utter shit.

 

I can't tell the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz. Maybe I don't know what to look for but I thought 60Hz was faster than our eye could see. But I do agree that all the Hz stuff is marketing bullshit. just like Ghz, and megapixels, contrast ratio and watts, etc

 

I agree, but not everyone dislikes the fake made up frames like we do.

While watching a LCD panel it's actually your eyes that do the blurring because of the "sample and hold" type of technology. The TV itself isn't blurring the video.

The motion blur your talking about is actually in the video already. The video itself has motion blur.

 

Watch a movie shot on film in 60hz.

Go back and watch it at 120hz.

It looks like the movie was shot on crappy HD at 120/240Hz. Completely destroys the integrity of the look.

 

ya, it's a bit of marketing. But it does help fix LCD's issue with motion blurring. It's just not fixed all the way yet...

Best way to describe LCD's problem is if you have ever been in the dark with a bright light (or even a lit cigarette) and moved it around quickly. You see trails... LCD works the same way with your eyes, each pixel is like a mini light bulb that's constantly on; thus your eyes hold on to the light and blurs it as it changes. If it was not constantly on and flashing your eyes wouldn't blur it. This is why CRT and Plasma's don't have this issue; they flash/strobe the screen all the time.

But then the side Sarlacc is talking about is called "frame interpolation". A completely different (problem) thing.

 

I have never had an issue with the motion trail you are talking about. And my eyes pick up everything.

 

Everyone does; it's just the way the eyes work.

You have never seen trails on anything in your life? Maybe you're just lucky enough to be able to ignore them.

Try taking a laser pointer out in a **completely** dark room, move the dot in a circle against a far wall as fast as you can. You'll notice you don't see a dot anymore you actually see a full circle drawn (probably more like an oval since your circle will be sloppy).

Same problem happens with LCD panels you just don't realize it's going on. Your eyes hold on to what they see on a LCD panel; then when something on the screen moves it smears because your eyes still process the old held image.

 

How does changing from LCD to plasma stop my eyes from holding the image?

 

^So if the trails are a visual artifact caused by a defect in the human eye. How is an LCD supposed to fix that? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?

EDIT: mike beat me to it.

 

Plasma's don't leave the image on the screen continuously like LCD. It's constantly being flashed and redrawn on the screen. So your eyes/brain interpret it differently.

Where as LCD uses what's called "sample and hold" it reads and then holds (i.e. is always on) the pixels until they change. They never flash, they only change when something on the screen changes.

 

Ya 100% right, I don't know if I'd call it a defect in our genetics but LCD is exploiting the phenomenon unintentionally.

So they do tricks to try and correct it...

*Try flashing (strobing; like a strobe light) the backlight on the LCD, so the image isn't always "ON".
*120/240 hz LCD TVs have a ton of extra video frames to work with; so they insert dark frames into the mix to give the on/off effect. You get a bright frame then a dark frame...
* LASTLY; they makeup video frames (guess) to keep the image always moving on the screen. Frame interpolation; google about it. It's also called the "Soap Opera Effect" (SOE).

example of dark frames:


Explanation of motion interpolation (SOE) making up video...
http://www.hemagazine.com/240Hz

Lots of different techniques.

 

I'm talking about on a TV screen.

 

OP, you'll be hard pressed to find a plasma tv with better picture quality than Panasonic's. I feel I'm in the minority by not switching to LCD, but plasma tv's have better picture quality when compared to LCD's, IMHO.

 

Same thing though. Just easier to see with the laser pointer.

I think anyone could see it on a LCD if you had a fixed large complex pattern of thin white lines (like random sticks laying on top of one another) bouncing around the screen like the ball in pong. They'd become fuzzy and blurry.

Once you could see that and see how your brain/eye interprets it you'd start to notice it more in video. I could see noticing it easiest playing FPS games since you can control the view and exacerbate the issue whenever you wanted.

 

Aren't the V25's the 3D sets? I'm not sure if I want to buy into that yet especially for the price increase. Of course, I do have a PS3 and they're supposed to be upgradable to output 3D....

Anyway, with the 2010 sets coming out, I'm sure I could get a good deal on the 2009 V10's.

 

Yes, the V25's are 3D.

I'm looking at getting a 65" V10 pretty soon to replace my 52" Sony plasma. Should I wait? Will there be a significant price drop when the V25's come out?

 

Just an update for those who give a rats'.....I got the 58V10 last Sunday and so far so good. The picture looks great and the Viera Cast has Pandora!! However, I'm kinda disappointed with the tv's built in speakers. They don't produce lows very well. My old Hitachi plasma has way better sounding speakers. Anyhoo.....

Does anyone know how to properly break in a plasma? Is it REALLY necessary?

I'm picking up Avatar tomorrow to really see how good this set is.

 

Congrats man.

Meh, with the speakers.
I'm not jumping on you specifically, but I've seen so many reviews that raise hell about flat panel speakers. You shouldn't really expect much. I've had my Sammy PN50B860 for about 6 months now and I've been perfectly fine with the built in speakers. Sure I'd like to have surround sound. But I don't really have anywhere logical to put it in my place without it looking ridiculous.

If you're in that same camp, consider getting a sound bar. It's definitely not surround sound, but considerably better than the built-ins in most cases.

 

Agreed. I shouldn't have expected much but I did expect them to be on par, if not better than, my old set's speakers. Since the V series is mid to high end Panny, I mistakenly assumed they'd package better components with the tv.

I do have it connected to my 5.0 (no sub) system and it sounds just fine but I just can't turn it up very much when the wife is asleep and I'm playing MW2!!

 

Get you some wireless headphones! LOL Great for other stuff too . I cant wait to get a new TV, I hoping when Im ready to buy around June there will have been some price drops. I cant wait to pick up Avatar today.

 

Congrats. Agree about the speakers. I couldn't take the distortion anymore so I picked up a Sony soundbar that was highly recommended from a few around here. Huge difference for only a couple of hundred bucks.

 

The two older Hitachi plasmas we got have great sound compared to other flat panel TV's I have experienced with. My dad says the same thing.

Congrats on the new set though.

 

on the newer sets, I almost feel like they purposely put in total crap speakers because they know 99% of people are going to use externals.

 

thanks

 

What was the end result with the Panasonic plasmas having issues with the black levels deteriorating?