SiGGy

Depends on you. Here's the downfalls... pick your poison

Plasma

green phosphor trails: on the edges of bright objects you may see a ghost image when panning the screen VERY fast. Otherwise it's not noticeable when gaming really.

*Also this issue only exists on some plasmas. Hardly noticeable on the new Panasonic, and not noticeable on the Elite 111 Kuro's, but noticeable on all other Kuro's and older/not high end plasmas for sure. A pretty minor issue for 99% but if your the 1% it might be bad.


LCD:

Input lag: LCDs do a lot of signal processing so the screen lags behind your controller input, delayed video. i.e. you move the joy stick but you don't see it immediately. Just know on most LCDs you can disable a lot of the signal processing to get the lag down. But also know a lot of the signal processing is there to reduce motion blurring, so it's a bit of a catch 22 disabling those features.

Motion blurring problems: LCDs tend to smear on fast moving pans or scrolling. This is why they score poorly on "motion resolution" tests. Just know this mostly has nothing to do with the screen reaction time in milliseconds (i.e the 2-15ms response time ratings on LCD screens). It has to do with "persistence of vision" and LCDs "sample and hold" technology and it's interaction with your eyes. In all reality the screen isn't itself blurring; it's the way LCDs work that makes your eyes blur the image.

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

Great info.

BTW not sure if I ever got an answer to this, but are there usually really good sales on HDTVs during Memorial weekend? I'm wondering if I should hold out until that weekend to buy my tv, or if sales are good as is right now. I mean, $1500, no tax and free shipping on the P50G10 seems pretty damn good, no

dom

Blu Ray is played at 24p correct? I always shut the 120 off when watching BD or anything but sports for that matter on the 750 LCD. It looked far too unatural.

dom

I loved the 750 and would have no problem getting another. But since I have the opportunity to try something different, I may take it. Then again summer is on its way so I ll likely wait til the fall to scoop up another. Hopefully prices come down as well.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I'm looking to buy a 50"+ before the end of the month. $1,500-$1750. Still can't decide.

TS_eXpeed

Sammy LCD!

To give credit where credit is do though, I will say I saw a Panasonic Plasma a few weeks ago that I thought looked pretty good. Not sure what the model was or how much, though.

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

^---Seen most all in person, and the $1500-2000 price range, I think the G10 is at the front of the pack. An equivalent sammy is about $2000-2500.

TS_eXpeed

You're not supposed to tell 'em that.

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

6ave has the TH46PZ850U for $1185.60 (coupon code AFL5), free shipping, no tax (except NY/NJ)

http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PANTH46PZ850U

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

LOL sorry bro, just tellin' it how it is Trust me I love Sammy LCDs as well (well Sammy's in general), but after seeing the G10 I'm leaning a different way

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

The only issue I have is my (probably naive) concern that the plasma will be washed out by the 6' tall by 9' wide window that is roughly 6' to the left and 2' to the rear of the TV.

______TV_____
l
w
w
w
l
l____couch____

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

No shades? And like Siggy said, the newer plasmas have an anti-reflective coating that is supposed to help out a ton. Also, not to mention that you'll have the same issue with glossy LCD screens.

TS_eXpeed

on getting shades if they are currently non-existent.....whether plasma or LCD.

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

For sure. Shit, if you're ghetto, just tape up some dark sheets during the day time

TS_eXpeed

Whadya tryin to say!?!?

I did that for about 4 weeks when I first moved into my apartment until I found time to get my ass up and find some new blinds.

The ones the apartment had let so much light in even when closed (from parking lot lights, etc) I had to resort the blanket thing for a short while.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

We actually have both window blinds and curtains on the windows but I'd hate to not be able to have the windows open during the day and watch TV simultaneously.

And I've seen LCDs with matte screens as opposed to glossy screens to assist with this issue.

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

hahaha, I did the same thing when I was in college - and I'm saying you're ghetto for doing it, as was I haha

mrsteve, yeah they have matte screens as well, but they just don't look NEARLY as good.

SiGGy

Yes, but just so you know.

On 120hz,240hz or 60hz TV. They are always at their scan rate. So your TV is always doing 120hz.

What you shutoff is the motion enhancement or technically speaking your TV making up in between frames to enhance the motion.

With 120hz and 24p the TV is doing 120FPS (all the time), but the source material is only 24 FPS, so to determine how much of a difference motion enhancement has just simply subtract these two 120-24=96. So there's 96 frames a second the TV has to just make up when motion enhancement is on! I.E. 96 of the 120 frames you watch with motion enhancement turned on the TV is creating itself from some fancy algorithms, they are not from the source material. Granted it's not quite this simple, but that's a good short description of it. There's also some other things the LCD is doing with those 96 frames to enhance motion.

With the motion enhancement off, the TV simply duplicates 5 frames in a row for every one 24p frame... 5*24=120; perfect 24p on a 120hz display.

Ya, I'm not a huge fan of motion enhancement either. Now if they would start filming at 120FPS it'd be cool!

IlliNorge

Dude, I told you, I get the math. I've never seen the stuttering problems on my 60 Hz set. I also understand how a computer program can ruin the movie quality film reproduction by guessing at what the TV should be displaying to fill in the holes.

The marketing of the 120 Hz sets is no motion blur, but if they have to use the same picture multiple times anyway because the film is at 24 fps, it follows that anything over 24 Hz should look the same, as far as motion blur goes.

This is the source of my confusion, not the 3:2 pull down.

svtmike

Can your eye determine the difference between motion blur and 3:2 pulldown artifacts?

As long as your statement means that any refresh rate over 24 Hz that is an integral multiple of 24 Hz should look the same, I agree.

IlliNorge

I don't see either one on my Samsung 4665. Siggy was making a clear distinction between the two.

Makes sense. Samsung should market their 120 Hz sets as preventing "uneven multiple pull down effects".

SiGGy

This is legit, and they are shipping!

I just read some stuff on it.

SiGGy

Ya, exactly. Two different things...

Honestly it depends on how fast the cones in your eye respond as to how much motion blur you see on LCD sets. This obviously will vary from person to person. Granted no LCD set to date is immune to motion blur, some people see it worse than others. Like I pointed out before the latest Samsungs do about 600 lines of 1080 during motion. Basically 55% of the 1920x1080 image is viewable during high motion.

Samsung's 3:2 pulldown on the 60hz sets are extremely good. I'd be surprised if you noticed it. Perhaps if you had a 120/240 (with motion enhancements turned off) set next to a 60hz you then could probably see a bit of a difference. But I truly think it'd take a A->B comparison like that to see it. Or a someone with a trained eye...

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

Damn...is the v10 worth the extra $500? ugh

llJrockll

iTrader: (2)

The New LCD's are to me. They're cheaply made, they are very slim and flimsey, just to cut back on production cost. I read somewhere that the Samsungs use to be produced overseas in Japan, and now they're being assemebled in Mexico.

At least my 71 series LCD is built with great quality. IMO, I don't think any of the new LCD's or LED (LCD's) can compare to it.

I do however still drool over the Pioneer Kuro's though. Those things are pure S3X!!! Best Buy has their 60" Kuro (non Elite) for $3,800...temptin...

Anybody want to buy my Sammy so I can upgrade to a Kuro?
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LNT467.../dp/B000U9ZCS6

SiGGy

Not sure in terms of picture quality differences, but going by the specs it sorta seems to be worth the extra bells and whistles so far.



It does 96hz for 24hp video. Improved over the G10; less flicker on 24p.

Your Blu-ray disc needs to have this information encoded in it for these to matter
*Deep Colour (10/12-bit)
*Digital Cinema Colour

V10 50" is made from a single sheet of glass (no clue how this effects anything)

Aesthetically it looks nicer


Otherwise we won't know until reviews start coming in

I want a 65" so I have no choice but to buy a V10 series.

Sarlacc

yeaaaah, no.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Site now says it's a pre-order...

Any idea on release date?

SiGGy

Anytime now, Panasonic claims before the end of the month.

Someone claimed they had a shipping # already from them. So I', not sure. Maybe it's just an order # and they're confused.

Also Samsung's new Neo plasma displays should be out real soon too. It'll be interesting to see how they do against the V10 series. Some Samsung guys think they'll be equal or better to the new Panasonic's. I'm still holding reservations on that though.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I realize if I buy a newly released TV today it will be "outdated" in a year or less... I just don't want to buy something this week and have it be "outdated" next week.

SiGGy

I hear ya, while Panasonic has made some big changes in the last revisions (same with Samsung). I think it's mostly going to be baby steps until OLED is here.

OLED (once out and matured a bit) will be the next big major change. It'll make you want an OLED set. Otherwise it'll just be normal incremental changes until then....

Although the wireless HDMI on the Z1 Panasonic plasma is cool. But it comes at a cost, and it'll drop in price as time goes anyway and be a normal feature.

Early OLEDs will suffer early wear and screen burn problems anyway, until they refine the organic materials.

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

just thought I'd update and let you all know that I received my P50G10 the other day . It's quite tits

dom

What did you have before? I'd love to hear more details.

And how much?

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

I had nothing actually. I moved into my new apt w/ my gf here in NYC this week and we're starting from scratch. Well not true...I had an Aquos 42D64U a long while ago but it broke .

Anyways, I bought it on Crutchfield for $1499, free shipping and no tax. It was delivered in about 3 days, and just to say, it's an absolutely fantastic set. I debated shelling out the extra $450-500 on a V10, but figured it wasn't worth it.

I originally thought about using the slides for the break-in process for the first 120hrs or so, but I can't find myself to do it. Instead I'm just watching all HD content with no logos/news tickers etc, or SD set on Zoom with no side bars. So far, so good. I'll be sure to update once I get the 120+ hours on it. I'm at about 30-40 right now.

llJrockll

iTrader: (2)

I'm thinking of getting the 54" G10, heard nothing but good news on these sets. Might move my samsung to the bedroom and put the G10 in the livingroom.

dom

The set is $2699 up here. I'm seriously considering driving down and picking it up in the US.

Zipho

that's exactly my same situation. I personally liked the look of plasmas in the store over the LCDs, but due to the ambient light issue I picked up a sony lcd. I'm just not willing to block out the sun to watch tv, I like the natural light and am happy with the tv. however, it has it's issues, but I knew when I bought it that the technology was a work in progress. both upper corners have some "flashlighting" on blank screens, but not on black screens (like my vista desktop).

I use it for:
sd tv (looks worse than the tube tv, but I got used to it)
movies (BR)
Ps3
computer monitor

I have not noticed viewing angle washout or fade, and when watching HD the picture is incredible. especially BR. all in all I would make the same purchase again.

I researched the hell out of my options (especially on AVS forum), and am content with my tv.

dom

^ What model?

Zipho

40" W series. was comparing with the toshiba, samsung, Z series sony. due to "exclusive price break", I went with the W.

when I first got home I thought it might be a little small, but it's actually perfect for our set up.

Babnik

But what about longevity? Does the LCD beat the plasma there? If I buy a plasma TV and watch it for hours every day, will it still work like new in 10 years?