1080i or 720p
Benchwarmer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,017
Likes: 2
From: Illinois
Originally Posted by soopa
No.
That's simply macroblocking and is usually the result of either the contents compression OR the TV's video scaler.
The "screen door effect" is the result of large margins between low PPI LCD screens. These large margins give the effect of looking out of a screen door, hence the name.
This effect is largely diminished in high PPI LCD's like 1080p sets in the 60-in and below range.
That's simply macroblocking and is usually the result of either the contents compression OR the TV's video scaler.
The "screen door effect" is the result of large margins between low PPI LCD screens. These large margins give the effect of looking out of a screen door, hence the name.
This effect is largely diminished in high PPI LCD's like 1080p sets in the 60-in and below range.
I don't see it during a 720p broadcast, just 1080i. If it's a compression issue, wouldn't it be lacking in an OTA HD signal?I've never experienced screen door or rainbow effect, and I never want to learn about them because that's all I would be looking for anytime I turned on the remote.
^ I know about both... however, to date I have never seen the Rainbow Effect... however, the Sony RP LCD we bought in 2005 had the SDE and it bugged the crap out of me. That combined with the motion-blur I got, especially from 1080i broadcasts, sealed its fate and back to the store it went.
But yeah, it's odd that I can pick up the SDE instantly but I've never seen the Rainbow Effect...
But yeah, it's odd that I can pick up the SDE instantly but I've never seen the Rainbow Effect...
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by IlliNorge
I thought blocking was a function of interlaced processing. I don't see it during a 720p broadcast, just 1080i. If it's a compression issue, wouldn't it be lacking in an OTA HD signal?
I've never experienced screen door or rainbow effect, and I never want to learn about them because that's all I would be looking for anytime I turned on the remote.
I don't see it during a 720p broadcast, just 1080i. If it's a compression issue, wouldn't it be lacking in an OTA HD signal?I've never experienced screen door or rainbow effect, and I never want to learn about them because that's all I would be looking for anytime I turned on the remote.
Macroblock's are compression artifacts. ALL digital video is compressed, even OTA HD.
As for Rainbow and Screen Door effects, Rainbow effects can only be seen by some and are largely variable. Screen Door's are either there or they aren't. It simply depends on the PPI and pixel margins of your display.
The Sony RP LCD bean bought in 2005 was probably a large 720p display, resulting in a LOW PPI, and thus, the SDE.
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Oh, and as for 720p vs 1080i so far as macroblocking is concerned.
On a 1920x1080 (1080p) display, macroblocking would be far more obvious with a 720p signal as the video would need to be scaled to your displays native resolution. Thus, any macroblocks would grow larger and therefore be more visible.
There's no reason you should see more macroblocks on 1080i content unless said content is compressed at a higher ratio then the 720p content you're comparing it against. Higher compression results in larger macroblocks.
Since most broadcasters compress their video at different rates, you really can't compare compression artifacts of 720p to those of 1080i via broadcast television.
On a 1920x1080 (1080p) display, macroblocking would be far more obvious with a 720p signal as the video would need to be scaled to your displays native resolution. Thus, any macroblocks would grow larger and therefore be more visible.
There's no reason you should see more macroblocks on 1080i content unless said content is compressed at a higher ratio then the 720p content you're comparing it against. Higher compression results in larger macroblocks.
Since most broadcasters compress their video at different rates, you really can't compare compression artifacts of 720p to those of 1080i via broadcast television.
Benchwarmer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,017
Likes: 2
From: Illinois
So each pixel has it's own screen door "square"? Must be an individual liquid crystal? And this is visible from >6 feet? I've never seen this in CC or BB either, but that would be 
The only artifact I've ever seen on my Samsung 46" DLP is from the damn static smudges between the two screens.
The only artifact I've ever seen on my Samsung 46" DLP is from the damn static smudges between the two screens.
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by IlliNorge
So each pixel has it's own screen door "square"? Must be an individual liquid crystal? And this is visible from >6 feet? I've never seen this in CC or BB either, but that would be The only artifact I've ever seen on my Samsung 46" DLP is from the damn static smudges between the two screens.
The only artifact I've ever seen on my Samsung 46" DLP is from the damn static smudges between the two screens.In today's LCD's, it'd be hard to pick up at >2 ft, maybe less.
The problem is greater in rear-projection LCD's because as the picture is magnified via projection, so is the size of the pixel margins. This is partly why rear projection LCD's have fallen out of favor.
Originally Posted by soopa
Yes each pixel is an individual square, and no, on direct-view LCD's it's typically not visible at >6 ft.
In today's LCD's, it'd be hard to pick up at >2 ft, maybe less.
The problem is greater in rear-projection LCD's because as the picture is magnified via projection, so is the size of the pixel margins. This is partly why rear projection LCD's have fallen out of favor.
In today's LCD's, it'd be hard to pick up at >2 ft, maybe less.
The problem is greater in rear-projection LCD's because as the picture is magnified via projection, so is the size of the pixel margins. This is partly why rear projection LCD's have fallen out of favor.
I have only every seen the SDE on RP LCD's. The LCD's you see in the stores today are nothing like those were...
Suzuka Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,523
Likes: 54
From: Trumbull, CT
Originally Posted by Nykor
I'm not sure I'm tracking on your point. 1080i is by nature introducing blur (even if you don't notice it). Picking a progressive format will assure you that any blur you do experience is related to something beyond the format.
Originally Posted by soopa
Oh, and as for 720p vs 1080i so far as macroblocking is concerned.
On a 1920x1080 (1080p) display, macroblocking would be far more obvious with a 720p signal as the video would need to be scaled to your displays native resolution. Thus, any macroblocks would grow larger and therefore be more visible.
There's no reason you should see more macroblocks on 1080i content unless said content is compressed at a higher ratio then the 720p content you're comparing it against. Higher compression results in larger macroblocks.
Since most broadcasters compress their video at different rates, you really can't compare compression artifacts of 720p to those of 1080i via broadcast television.
On a 1920x1080 (1080p) display, macroblocking would be far more obvious with a 720p signal as the video would need to be scaled to your displays native resolution. Thus, any macroblocks would grow larger and therefore be more visible.
There's no reason you should see more macroblocks on 1080i content unless said content is compressed at a higher ratio then the 720p content you're comparing it against. Higher compression results in larger macroblocks.
Since most broadcasters compress their video at different rates, you really can't compare compression artifacts of 720p to those of 1080i via broadcast television.
^^^ what he said
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