eve

I need advice; I'm in trouble with my condo association folks.

Last night I received a letter from an attorney for my condo association saying that I broke the rules of bylaws by installing hardwood floors. They’re giving me 6 months to cover them with carpet or the board might terminate my right to continue to occupy my unit (can they kick me out for breaking the rules even if I own it?).

Anyway… when I bought the place last year I tried to contact the management company with questions I had about my unit (including hardwood floors) but they never returned my calls. Since then we changed companies but the one we have now is not much better than the old one.

I could have read the rules and regulations but I didn’t so I understand that I am partially at fault. However, I’ve lived there since last year and no one ever complained. I leave at 6 in the morning almost every day, I don’t return until late at night, I don’t wear heels in the house and I try not to make too much noise. I don’t have any pets either.

Everything was fine until the unit next door got sold. The new owner saw that I have hardwood floors and asked if I knew that I’m not supposed to have them. I said no, I didn’t know that. A week after our conversation I got the notice.

I know I might not have a case because they quoted a paragraph of the association bylaws. Is there any other way I can approach it? I put insulation and cork under the floor. I would hate to waste the money I spent to install them. I work for a law firm and will seek advice of one of our attorneys but has any of you ever had issues with association (and won)?

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

If the bylaws say no hardwood floors, I don't see where you'd have any legal right.

Can you post what the bylaw states? Sometimes they are vague and ambiguous.

eve

I understand I might not have any legal right. I will try to negotiate with them - maybe by offering placement of rugs or covering most of the space. I wish we had quarterly meetings where I could bring up this issue but they have them yearly and we just had one in November.

I have 6 months to work something out.


I will look for the bylaws and try to find the section.

dom

Why would they mind? Is it just because of the potential noise?

eve

Maybe. But like I said, we installed cork and insulation to eliminate extra noise. Not to mention that hardwood floors increase the resale value.

There must be more to it.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Well, the new owner is a dick for selling you out regardless. I'd keep a close eye on his unit and report any little thing he does wrong to the association. But that's just me. Either that or I'd invite him over for a meal to welcome him... then put a laxitive in it and make him shit his brains out. Again... just me

That aside, if the by-laws state no hardwoods, then there's not much you can do. I would just go at them and let them know you're willing to put down area rugs in all high-traffic areas. Probably the only thing you can offer short of ripping them up or covering them up entirely.

One question though... if you were contacting them to ask questions about the floors, it meant you were not sure if you could have them or not. Why install them without knowing for sure?

Scrib

That's so fucking gay. I'm curious how the covenant reads too.


It's gotta be for sound reasons.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I don't understand why you put them in if you weren't sure about the rules?

eve

I agree with all of you - if I wasn't sure, I should not have done it in the first place. Now I'm paying for it.


The new owner doesn't and will not live there. He told me he bought the place to remodel and put it up on the market. I even offered to send him potential buyers.


My attorney made contact with the association's law firm and requested inspection of all units to make sure that every other condo is in compliance. We'll see what the response will be. I'm willing to negotiate but somehow I have a feeling they won't. I don't want to get evicted - I like where I live and don't want to move so if it means that I will have to install carpets, then let it be. But I want to make sure that I did everything possible to avoid it.

Street Spirit

Weirdest thing I have ever heard, considering you own the unit. Wow.

mamboking

I don't understand that bylaw, I mean they should be happy that hardwood floors increase the value of your property and therefore theirs.....

jlukja

Hope it all works out. Knock on wood.

moeronn

What floor do you live on. If no one lives below you, then there is no reason they should care, bylaws or not. It should only be a factor if anyone lives below you.

The neighbor probably wanted to put in hardwood floors to increase the value and was told that he couldn't and is taking it out on you. Find out where he lives and mess with his life

svtmike

Fixed.

Mike

moeronn

Kind of. What's the color for text when you're only half-way being sarcastic?

einsatz

knock on her floor? sorry.

I'd be curious to know how this pans out... I myself have sent a letter to my condo assn and gotten no response. My neighbor, too - but he went ahead and did his yard the way he wanted, then the association was very responsive in telling him it's not allowed, that they had to bring in their own contractors and do the work instead of him doing it himself - this AFTER the job was completed!

However, I thought with all condos you owned the inside? My condo docs are very specific as to what I own and what I don't own, and they basically say that as long as I don't mess up my neighbor's wiring or plumbing, I can do whatever I want within the walls/ceiling/floor. If your docs say the same but make an exception for hardwood floors, maybe your lawyer can argue that the docs were conflicting and not clear and your interpretation varied from the HOAs? But IANAL

svtmike

Dark red, of course. I wonder if she needs help finding out where her neighbor lives.

Sarlacc

Time to become a very active member of the HoA and move up the ranks.

Thats what my folks did....sick of the HoA was running things...Now, my dad is the president.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

I never knew.

SakiGT

First off, I wouldnt have installed them.

Secondly, I dont think the neighbor "told on you." More like, he was arguing with them and he mentioned "well such and such has them, why cant I?"

Lastly, Im new to the association business (I had planned on attending meetings and such to prevent this kind of crap.) But shouldn't they have to justify this sort of thing? If the reason they dont approve of the floors is because of the sound...and yours has material that limits that...shouldnt you be exempt?

Lord Helmet

This is stupid and I'd be pissed. What I would do is (assuming you live upstairs) go down stairs talk to the neighbor. Ask him/her if you can come in and listen for footsteps while you have someone in your place walk around on your floors and see if it's loud or annoying. If it is, now it will all make sense. If it's not and you can't hear it, now you've got some fire power against the situation.

The other thing you might do as well is try to do the same thing with a couple of other neighbors places that have carpeting. I would try to do this for comparison reasons.

I live in a condo too... I don't know when or how yours was built but mine's brand new and I have already had problems with my downstairs neighbor due to noise. (I've only been there a month.) It seems like she's either a really anal retentive bitch or the floor is paper thin.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

If it's in the by-laws of the community... nothing you can do about it. They don't need justification. If the by-laws state that no unit shall have hardwood floors.... well, then no unit can have hardwood floors. Period. No exemptions, nothing. If they were going to set guidlines requiring certain materials be used to reduce noise, then it would say that in the by-laws and the floor would be OK. But it doesn't... according to the OP, it says no hardwoods.



It's not stupid and you shouldn't be pissed. If you're doing 75 mph in a 40mph zone and you get a ticket... it's not a stupid ticket... you did something you weren't supposed to. Same here. The by-law was broken, the HOA found out, and the letter acted as the ticket (just to keep the comparison going). She can dance, jump, hop, and skip around on the floors, and even if you can't hear a single peep from it downstairs.... the by-laws state no hardwoods.... so that's the way it is. The by-laws are the laws of a community... and if you break one... you'll get cited.

You agree to the by-laws when you move in... and most make you sign something acknowledging them, so if you break one... no one to blame but yourself. The only thing I'd be mad at is the association not responding when she was trying to get answers... but that's it.

Lord Helmet

All I'm saying is that theoretically I would be pissed if I just had the work done. Then again, it would be my own fault for not reading the bylaws to begin with. That said, if nothing else, it is possible to amend bylaws. That is exactly what is and has been going on in the community my folks live in for quite some time now. I personally, would be interested in the reasoning behind the no wood floors clause within the bylaws.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

^^ Agreed. I lived in a townhome community originally, and the by-laws contained no provisions for indoors... however, if they did, I would definitely not have done anything until I was sure what was or was not allowed. No way I'd spend a dime if there was any chance I'd have to rip out what was just put in.

eve

I agree with all of you - it is my fault and I never said it wasn't. I was just interested to find out if anyone else had similar issues and actually won.


I am upset, frustrated, etc. but I have no one else to blame but myself. I know I broke the rules... now I'm paying for it. It will be a very expensive lesson learned


I will keep you updated on the status.

Lord Helmet

Please do, I'm interested.

fdl

Considering the options available, this was pretty smart.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Please do. Oh, and don't think I'm picking on you... just quoting stuff to make a point to the others as well

But I am interested how it turns out. Personally I think it's a stupid rule... and hopefully you can just put some area rugs down in the high traffic areas to keep the noise to a minimum. Sounds like your attorney has a good strategy...so you may be in better shape then you think!!

Titand19

drill a pinhole into your neighbors bedroom and put a camera in. Blackmale his ass. OR light a bag of shit on fire and leave it at his door.

Edr0e

Home owners association you mean? I just had expo design center redo my whole floor with this wood from brazil its awesome!!! Cost me an arm and a leg.
I live on the 2nd floor of a 3 story condominium complex and I really dont understand why ONE CANT REMODEL TO IMPROVE?

I do not understand the reasoning behind your homeowner's association. I could understand getting permission from them ( and your neighbors ) to make sure the contractor/installer is insured and has the proper licenses etc etc..

I have friends who live in a really strict condos. No work on weekends, after 5pm and every single worker must be insured with proof of license... not to mention you have to give them a 1 week notice to let them know workers are coming because others neighbors are trying to do the same thing.


Improving units throughout the building... hmm could that help your neighbor's property value go up? Just doesnt make sense.

Msnowdon

What state is this in?

astro

i had the same problem when i installed hard wood floors into my unit.

I ended up convincing them that the contruction was perfect and they allowed me to keep them.

good luck!

Scribesoft

\pats self on back for avoiding HOA neighborhoods like the plague when I was house hunting..

mt6forlife

Me too. It amazes me that people willingly pay hundreds of dollars a month for the privelege of having their nosy neighbors tell them what do to with their property.

Msnowdon

Yeah, but it is nice to have someone deal with the landscaping, and not worrying about your neighbor parking his old motorhome in front of his house, or you neighbor thinking it would be nice to paint her house pink.

Michael

mt6forlife

I own a house w/o an association. Even if there were an association, they sure wouldn't be mowing my lawn. But you can bet they'd be threatening me if my grass was 1/2" too long.

The city has rules against parking RVs on residential streets. I'm not sure it its an outright ban or if it falls under the 72 hour rule that applies to cars.

I'd rather put up with a pink house on my street than a bunch of nazis looking in my windows trying to determine if my blinds are the approved shade of beige.

SunnyG

i'm curious to see what happens with this. i'm shocked that the HOA doesn't let you add to the inside of your unit. my neighboring unit just put in hardwood floors and it looks awesome. i can understand exterior modifications, but i'm amazed that they have such jurisdiction on the interior.

SakiGT

Oh the irony.

You got caught with the floors b/c the "asshole" alerted the association.

Now all the units are going to be checked to see if there are any other hardwood floors out there so you can justify your actions?

I think you could defend your actions without using the old "Everyone else is doing it so why cant I."

Scribesoft

LOL.. I can only see one of my neighbors through the trees. If they want to paint their house pink I would barely see it in the winter and never in the summer.

One of my joys in life is doing work/landscaping around the yard with my wife/kids on a nice day.. I simply don't trust other people to do it right and it's a great time for family bonding.

And my road frontage is over 400ft.... I don't think a motorhome on the side of the road would be anywhere in my field of vision.

I really didn't mean to knock HOA's in my earlier message. I think they're great for many people for the exact reasons you mention... but for me.. never.. (maybe if I still lived in FL, but not here)

We all have different needs/wants, so it's good that we as consumers can choose between HOA type neighborhoods and non-HOA neighborhoods.

Full disclosure: We actually DO have a few covenants in my neighborhood like no uninspected cars on the lawn, no old bathtubs, no f-ing around with the wetlands which surround portions of the neighborhood... basic stuff like that to help keep our property values up. But there's no HOA, and no monthly fees to anyone..

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Well, there are pluses and minuses of each. When we lived in our townhouse in NY there was an association, and it was expensive... like $230/mo. But, we got almost everything done for us. Lawn was mowed/edged/blown, outsides were powerwashed once a year, irrigation was winterized, in the winter our driveways and walkways were shoveled, plus all of the grounds were maintained (check out the community on my site... www.juniorbean.net and check out the Past Homes section). Additionally the clubhouse was huge, had a full olympic sized pool, kids pool, and playground. Inside the clubhouse was a full gym with trainers, locker rooms with saunas, 60" TV with surround sound, DVD player and cable box (they had a movie every Friday, plus you could use it when it was available), indoor basketball court, and section with a full kitchen that you could rent out for parties and such. They had no control over what we did inside the house since we owned the inside, and even on the outside they weren't bad. It kept people from putting up anything obnoxious and kept everything looking nice nice. But, since it was a townhouse community and everything needed to look the same, there were restrictions on what you could do outside (like no flags, only a certain storm door could be installed, etc).

That said, I wasn't a huge fan of the HOA. When we moved to NC, our community has an HOA, but it's mainly for architectural review... which is nice. For example, we needed to submit the plans for our pool, but the approval process took one day and was no big deal. But we maintain everything on the house ourself.. lawns, landscaping, everything... as if there was no association at all. I like this association b/c it prevents people from putting up ugly fences and stuff like that. We pay $425/year which is pretty much for the landscaping of the entrance, around the pond and around the pool... plus the maintenence and operation of the community pool itself. I love this association b/c it's completely hands-off, but at the same time they keep the community looking very nice.

So really, what I am trying to get at is that it depends on the HOA