Started making a teeeeny bit of progress on the house tonight by discovering some nice hardwood floors under the ugly ass linoleum in the entry way. Also sanded most of the doors and trim downstairs.

Unfortunately though, as presumed, the kitchen is TWO layers of ugly ass linoleum, and under the last is this black tar paper shit. Under that? Crap.

Time to shop for new kitchen floors tomorrow.

 

Nice to find good floor under there.

 

That black tar shit is mastic (I think?) - It's the same shit used to hang large, heavy mirrors. I tried to take down a mirror once and had to battle that crap. It sucked.

 

Gotta watch that old stuff. Could be ASBESTOS in those tiles.
Always wear a mask and be careful how you dispose of it.
Lots of legal issues there.

Or hopefully your pre-sale home inspection showed that it’s been tested safe already.

 

Why the hell do people cover up nice wood floors with that crap? When my parents moved into their house, they decided to rip up the carpet on the first floor and replace it all with wood...when they tore up the ugly 70's carpet, guess what was already under it...

 

Hardwood floors must have went out of style when the 70 shag carpet hit the scene. There are many houses with this treasure hidden away.

 

so far so good, hopefully you won't run into any major problems. Also, I agree, why in the hell would someone want to cover up wood flooring, especially for some black and white vinyl tiles?

 

Um, you're dealing with wood floors post- polyurethane finishes. Before the current polyurethane finishes and sophisticated staining compounds, the way to finish floors was to varnish or shellack them, a rather fragile finish that required a significant amount of care and maintenance. Even with that, the most rigid maintenance program still called for stripping and revarnishing on some timecycle or another as the finish would be destroyed by minute hairline scratches from grit carried in on shoes, etc; even routine foot traffic could dull the finish in a matter of days. Revarnishing the wood without stripping it (a shortcut) would lead to massive buildup over time that would, in time, crack and spall. Anyone who has dealt with a Victorian house that needs restoration has encountered that mess...........(in some cases, the only way to get it off woodwork is a carefully controlled blowtorch......) A good paste wax job on a floor was timeconsuming and labor intensive. Waxing and polishing floors helped some, but added another layer of maintenance onto a wood floor.

My guess is, looking at the size, character and vintage of Soopa's house, it was originally maintained by a housemaid or general housekeeper when the house was new; no one cared much if she had to wax the floors twice a month and spot-clean that hallway daily........ When maids went away in genteel middle-class white-collar households (post WWII) many homeowners went to "maintenance-saving" flooring, rather than dealing with the constant needs of wood in an entry hallway.

That high maintenance is partially responsible for the connotations of luxury associated with wood floors - in the olden days (my youth), they really required a lot of effort to maintain in their peak condition.

The poly finishes radically changed floor maintenance - a good single coat finish can now last for years, requires minimal maintenance and looks great.

 

good point!!!

 

Chances are that the tile is vinyl asbestos tile. The issue is the friability of it - how loose theparticles are. Yep, precautions should include mask, gloves, clean wipedown with disposable towels to gather up small particles.

some general poop on asbestos in residential settings:
http://cancer.health-cares.net/asbestos-poisoning.php
Where is asbestos found?
Asbestos is likely to be found in buildings constructed before 1979 and almost certain to be present in those built before 1950. Asbestos was often sprayed or trowelled on ceilings and walls for thermal, acoustical, and decorative purposes. It may also be found in insulation for stoves, furnaces, boilers, pipes, walls and ceilings. Vinyl floor tiles, sheet flooring,
patching compounds, cement shingles, artificial fireplace logs, and textured paints are other areas where asbestos was commonly used. Common products that might have contained asbestos in the past, and conditions which may release fibers, include:

Steam pipes, boilers, and furnace ducts insulated with an asbestos blanket or asbestos paper tape. These materials may release asbestos fibers if damaged, repaired, or removed improperly.
Resilient floor tiles (vinyl asbestos, asphalt, and rubber), the backing on vinyl, and adhesives used for installing floor tile. Sanding tiles can release fibers. So may scraping or sanding the backing of sheet flooring during removal.
Cement sheet, millboard, and paper used as insulation around furnaces and woodburning stoves. Repairing or removing appliances may release asbestos fibers. So may cutting, tearing, sanding, drilling, or sawing insulation.
Door gaskets in furnaces, wood stoves, and coal stoves. Worn seals can release asbestos fibers during use.
Soundproofing or decorative material sprayed on walls and ceilings. Loose, crumbly, or water-damaged material may release fibers. So will sanding, drilling, or scraping the material.
Patching and joint compounds for walls and ceilings, and TEXTURED PAINTS. Sanding, scraping, or drilling these surfaces may release asbestos.
Asbestos cement roofing, shingles, and siding. These products are not likely to release asbestos fibers unless sawed, dilled, or cut.
Artificial ashes and embers sold for use in gas-fired fireplaces. Also, other older household products such as fiewproof gloves, stove-top pads, ironing board covers and certain hairdryers.
Automobile brake pads and linings, clutch facings and gaskets.
Exposure to asbestos can occur in home improvement and construction projects.


Some roofing and siding shingles are made of asbestos cement.
Houses built between 1930 and 1950 may have asbestos as insulation.
Asbestos may be present in textured paint and in patching compounds used on wall and ceiling joints. Their use was banned in 1977.
Artificial ashes and embers sold for use in gas-fired fireplaces may contain asbestos.
Older products such as stove-top pads may have some asbestos compounds.
Walls and floors around woodburning stoves may be protected with asbestos paper, millboard, or cement sheets.
Asbestos is found in some vinyl floor tiles and the backing on vinyl sheet flooring and adhesives.
Hot water and steam pipes in older houses may be coated with an asbestos material or covered with an asbestos blanket or tape.
Oil and coal furnaces and door gaskets may have asbestos insulation.

 

Does Asbestos actually pose immediate danger? I thought it was long-term probs.

The only asbestos I KNOW of in the house is wrapping piping in the basement, but inspector said well wrapped.

But you're right, the tiles may be asbestos. I don't know about the Black & White tiles, but definately the shit in the kitchen.

 

Damn just read your link. Sounds like I'm owned.

 

Nice. Does the wood floor need re-finishing?

 

Just be careful Adam...

And looks like you're doing a hell of a job so far.

Feels good doesn't it...fixing up your house...

 

amazing that you already have some hardwood, the place already looks better

 

Man this is fucking Awsome.. When my dad and I do yard work, or house work, we have this feeling of great accomplishment. You know ITS YOURS and you made it look like that. Just watch. you will have your house looking spanking NEW in no time!!

 

The stuff in your basement is fine so long as it stays contained. For the tile, the by the book answer is that it should be removed by a pro who encapsulates it as it is removed. Since you've already started, too late for that $$$$$$$ solution. You wore a mask, which is good.

When you sand the floor and pick up the last remaining adhesive, you should wear a mask. You should probably wear gloves, and contain all the debris, and wipe down the area to pick up the bits.


The website is pretty factual, but the real challenge with asbestosis is repeated consistent contact with loose asbestos fibers. Constant contact with your flooring material by walking on it would do nothing to challenge your health........ Most folks who suffer health issues worked in factories or other settings where they were exposed to loose (friable) asbestos on a daily basis for much of the work day. Your weekend warrior stuff has not suddenly exposed you to massive health issues.

The challenge with asbestos fibers, however, is that they do not leave the lungs once inhaled. So, whatever mirofibers one inhales get to stay there. Asbestosis is the accumulation of the material in one's lungs until the lung capacity is jeapordized. I doubt, unless you rolled asbestos fibres into a cigarette and smoked it that you did much damage, though.

That said, one should take proper precautions around this stuff...... In your shoes, working on this stuff as a home handyman, I woudl have worked with a mask and gloves, ventilated the area completely, sealed off the adjacent areas and wiped down the floor and walls afterward...... if you ever have to tackle the pipes in the basement, you might want to look at how to do it very carefully to contain the asbestos material. For whatever its worth, the asbestos in tile is far more 'glued together' than the stuff used in insulating pipes, which is actually fairly loosely packed.

If you're sure the stuff in the kitchen is asbestos, you might want to think about putting a new flooring material over it. Creates challenges with a slight floor difference which can be handled with threasholds at the doors, but it solves the removal problem and "encapsulates" the asphalt. Could easily lay over thin wood, any number of tiles and vinyls. Again, though, if you roughen the surface of the tile to make the bond with the new adhesive be a good one, be mindful of raking up asbestos particles, and use precautions. Best to scratch the surface rather than sand it.....

 

There's not much in the house for the shit to stick to, since there's no furniture and it's all hard surfaces. Plus all the rooms have doors and the house gets a really good breeze passing through.

The kitchen is going to be completely stripped... new floors.. cabinets... appliances... so I don't have too much concern about residual dust.

Prime and paint will take care of anything stuck to the walls. Good mopping will clear up the floors..

 

Nice work :spooa: those wooden floors look awesome!

 

Those tiles were hideous. The hardwood looks sooo much better. I'm surprised the old owners covered it up like that. I think it was an 80's thing, judging by the colors.

Be really careful with the asbestos. That shit is really nasty if it gets into your lungs.

 

Like everyone has said, you are lucky to find some quality hardwood under all that crap.

Should be a crime to cover it up with checkerboard linoleum.

 

Soopa let me know any asbestos related questions you may have. That and lead based paint (as i'm sure your windows and most of your wood trim has it). Environmental consulting (industrial hygiene) is what I do for a living.

 

As long as you are a private home owner you can legally dispose of asbestos on your curb with your other trash. In this case ignorance of the laws is in your favor. As a licensed EPA asbestos building inspector I couldn't get away with the same practice, but Adam can. As long as he does it himself (i.e., doesn't hire an asbestos abatement contractor) he's good to go.

Adam the biggest thing is making sure the stuff stays wet while you are removing it. Especially the pipe insulation in the basement. That is nasty stuff (anywhere from 20-75% pure asbestos fiber).

 

Only long term problems. 10-40 years. No immediate affects can be detected.

If you are worried about anything else being asbestos take a small piece of it and place it in a bag and mail it to these people:

EMSL Analytical
490 Rowley Road , Depew, NY, 14043

They are a national laboratory and for around $35 should be able to tell you exactly what the material is made of.

 

One last thing.... (I should have made this all 1 post)

The chances of exposure above the OSHA permissible exposure limit during floor tile removal is very very very low. Even lower for the mastic; as long as your aren't rendering the material friable (i.e., being able to crush/pulverize the material with hand pressure while dry).

Keep the stuff wet and clean it up promptly and you shouldn't have any problems. Make sure you wear that respirator though and wash your clothes before you leave. The fibers will obviously stick to your clothing and then as soon as you leave to go get lunch (and remove your respirator) you'll be inhaling all the debris you were just creating while working.

 

Steve...any advice on removing asbestos siding? I'm in DE and considering replacing it with vinyl.

Adam may even have that on his house somewhere...as most folks just side over it.

 

Asbestos siding (or "Transite" siding) is tricky as it is nearly impossible to remove without breaking it due to how it is attached to the house. Asbestos siding is generally 25-45% Chrysotile asbestos and definitely has the potential for fiber release if it isn't handled properly. You definitely need a good NIOSH approved respirator and repirator cartrigages (P100 aka HEPA filters). The material needs to remain wet and care should be taken to keep the material as intact as possible. It would be best to lay out a plastic sheet (something thick, like 6-mil) to catch all the debris you'll create because i've never seen asbestos siding removed without tons of debris created.

Wrap all the debris in two layers of clear 6-mil plastic and label them as asbestos waste. In delaware you need to notify the landfill you are disposing asbestos siding. The New Castle County landfill will accept it but you MUST notify them as they segregate the waste. You also must get a reciept for the waste. Even though you've taken it to the landfill you still own the waste and it is still your responsibility.

 

Thanks Steve...this helps a ton!!!