REAL hardwood floor installation and maintenance tips
07-22-2005, 10:52 AM
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Burning Brakes
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REAL hardwood floor installation and maintenance tips
Although far from being an expert, I have two friends who own hardwood flooring installing/sanding/finishing and refinishing services. Earlier in life, I was a fill in grunt who helped out on Saturdays when the normal late teenage grunts got too drunk on Friday night to work on Saturdays. Hence, the call.
Your first step should be to visit a hardwood floor distributor. Not Lowe's, not Home Depot. A distributor will have a far greater selection of not only wood, but subgrades of wood not available at the superstores. For instance, I am in the middle of a condo rehab right now, and although no flooring is involved, my sole choices for wood trim and doors are pine and red oak.
A distributor will have maple, cherry, ash, oak and others. Furthermore (as my experience has been 99% with oak), there is "plain" oak (just like you would buy at Home Depot) vs. "quarter sawn" oak, an oak where more "highlights" (I like to call them "flecks") of the grain is exposed. It is a little more expensive, but it is prettier. In my view, a genuine hardwood floor should be looked upon as a long term investment. You're going to be looking at it for a long, long time. No sense saving a couple of bucks up front over a period of 30 years.
Either way, even a standard hardwood floor will look just fine. I am just trying to let you know there are options out there.
After all of the old floor coverings are gone and disposed of, assuming you have a nice level surface, vacuum everything until it is squeaky clean. Now, measure your square feet and go buy your wood and bring it home. Ready to do your installing? Chomping at the bit to get going? Well, no.
Haul your wood in to your home. It will be strapped in bundles of random lenghts. Break open the straps, and spread the wood around, trying to expose as much surface area of the wood as you can. Random piles are fine. Now, go chill for at least three days, a week is better. Run your air conditioning/heating as you would normally. The idea here is to get the wood to acclimate to the surroundings. Wood is an extremely variable material in many ways, and probably the most variable is moisture content retention. One of my contractor friends, in his early days, laid very dry wood in a large foyer for Quaqer Oats in the dead of winter, and later when the weather got warm and humid, they called and complained about "lumps" in their floor. I flew Mike, the owner, down to Danville Il from chicago, and we were rather amazed that the center of the floor had risen by about three feet! Not to worry, folks, this was about a 200' x 200' reception area. You will not encounter these problems.
What you may encounter , and not to be concerned about it, is that hardwood floors installed in summer (where we are now) usually will retain the maximum amount of moisture (the humidity is "relatively" high), and even after being properly stained and sealed (by others) may develope large gaps between the planks in the winter months. Not to panic. They will go away as the humidity rises, just keep the floor clean as a matter of good practice, but even that matters little. Any debris caught in the open fissures will be crushed by the expansion of the wood as it gains humidity. It is just a good housekeeping practice.
OK, ready to install. I am assuming you are down to a plywood sub base floor. Go rent a hardwood floor installation tool. This will consist of a tool that holds nails like you have never seen before, collated and bound by nitrocellulose, the same shit that holds the bindings of books together. You will be given a box of the special nails, more than you will need to complete your project. You will return the nails at the end of the project, and you will pay by the pound for the nails consumed. You will also get a rather large mallet to whack the tool with. The special nail will install with one good whack. No tap, tap, tap here.
This is a good time to point out that your friendly hardwood floor distributor may be easier to work with rather than Home Depot regarding the nails, and they may be able to loan you the tools for installation at no cost if you're lucky. No pneumatic tools are needed nor desired.
No matter how you look at it, be it straight strip, on the diagonal, herringbone, etc, you are going to requite a chop saw either to cut to lenght or cut angles. I'd advise to buy rather than to rent. You will use this tool over and over again, so it is a good investment. Look into both simple and "compound" miter saws, compounds can do diffucult cuts with one person easily, whereas a simple may require a helper to hold the long wood excess hanging over in order to get a straight cut.
The hardwood floor planks will be "tongue in groove", and the instillation tool will drive a nail through the groove at a 45 degree angle. It is best to start against a square wall. After that, just keep going, but be sure to stagger the joints so they don't match up. Don't worry about the color or grain of the wood. The beauty of the wood is in its' variability due to grain and color.
With a hardwood floor, you will be using base and hopefully quarter round or something of the like. This leaves you something like 3/4" leeway on both sides, so it is not imperative that you run the flooring from "wall to wall". Leave some room for wood expansion and contraction. The trim will cover the gaps.
There will come a time, as you reach the farest away wall, where you have no choice but to face nail the floor. The tool will be obstructed by the wall. That's OK, just do it.
You could stain the floor yourself, but it has to be sanded smooth flat first. You could do this yourself, but I do not recommend it. The sanders use large coarse belts of sandpaper, and it is easy to gouge the floor. After instillation, leave the sanding, staining, and sealing of the floor to professionals. You'll be way better off, considering the labor you have already expended.
Expect the newly finished floor to be verboten for at leAST 24 hours, 48 if you are smart. This may mean a motel stayover.
And finally, hardwood floors are fine in kitchens and bathrooms, but I suggest you swap out all of the metal p-traps to non corrosive plastic.
That last warning is good for sealed, real hardwood floors. That goes triple for inferior products like Pergo, where all of the edges are unsealed, and therefore very vunerable to the ravages of water.
Hope this helps.
Your first step should be to visit a hardwood floor distributor. Not Lowe's, not Home Depot. A distributor will have a far greater selection of not only wood, but subgrades of wood not available at the superstores. For instance, I am in the middle of a condo rehab right now, and although no flooring is involved, my sole choices for wood trim and doors are pine and red oak.
A distributor will have maple, cherry, ash, oak and others. Furthermore (as my experience has been 99% with oak), there is "plain" oak (just like you would buy at Home Depot) vs. "quarter sawn" oak, an oak where more "highlights" (I like to call them "flecks") of the grain is exposed. It is a little more expensive, but it is prettier. In my view, a genuine hardwood floor should be looked upon as a long term investment. You're going to be looking at it for a long, long time. No sense saving a couple of bucks up front over a period of 30 years.
Either way, even a standard hardwood floor will look just fine. I am just trying to let you know there are options out there.
After all of the old floor coverings are gone and disposed of, assuming you have a nice level surface, vacuum everything until it is squeaky clean. Now, measure your square feet and go buy your wood and bring it home. Ready to do your installing? Chomping at the bit to get going? Well, no.
Haul your wood in to your home. It will be strapped in bundles of random lenghts. Break open the straps, and spread the wood around, trying to expose as much surface area of the wood as you can. Random piles are fine. Now, go chill for at least three days, a week is better. Run your air conditioning/heating as you would normally. The idea here is to get the wood to acclimate to the surroundings. Wood is an extremely variable material in many ways, and probably the most variable is moisture content retention. One of my contractor friends, in his early days, laid very dry wood in a large foyer for Quaqer Oats in the dead of winter, and later when the weather got warm and humid, they called and complained about "lumps" in their floor. I flew Mike, the owner, down to Danville Il from chicago, and we were rather amazed that the center of the floor had risen by about three feet! Not to worry, folks, this was about a 200' x 200' reception area. You will not encounter these problems.
What you may encounter , and not to be concerned about it, is that hardwood floors installed in summer (where we are now) usually will retain the maximum amount of moisture (the humidity is "relatively" high), and even after being properly stained and sealed (by others) may develope large gaps between the planks in the winter months. Not to panic. They will go away as the humidity rises, just keep the floor clean as a matter of good practice, but even that matters little. Any debris caught in the open fissures will be crushed by the expansion of the wood as it gains humidity. It is just a good housekeeping practice.
OK, ready to install. I am assuming you are down to a plywood sub base floor. Go rent a hardwood floor installation tool. This will consist of a tool that holds nails like you have never seen before, collated and bound by nitrocellulose, the same shit that holds the bindings of books together. You will be given a box of the special nails, more than you will need to complete your project. You will return the nails at the end of the project, and you will pay by the pound for the nails consumed. You will also get a rather large mallet to whack the tool with. The special nail will install with one good whack. No tap, tap, tap here.
This is a good time to point out that your friendly hardwood floor distributor may be easier to work with rather than Home Depot regarding the nails, and they may be able to loan you the tools for installation at no cost if you're lucky. No pneumatic tools are needed nor desired.
No matter how you look at it, be it straight strip, on the diagonal, herringbone, etc, you are going to requite a chop saw either to cut to lenght or cut angles. I'd advise to buy rather than to rent. You will use this tool over and over again, so it is a good investment. Look into both simple and "compound" miter saws, compounds can do diffucult cuts with one person easily, whereas a simple may require a helper to hold the long wood excess hanging over in order to get a straight cut.
The hardwood floor planks will be "tongue in groove", and the instillation tool will drive a nail through the groove at a 45 degree angle. It is best to start against a square wall. After that, just keep going, but be sure to stagger the joints so they don't match up. Don't worry about the color or grain of the wood. The beauty of the wood is in its' variability due to grain and color.
With a hardwood floor, you will be using base and hopefully quarter round or something of the like. This leaves you something like 3/4" leeway on both sides, so it is not imperative that you run the flooring from "wall to wall". Leave some room for wood expansion and contraction. The trim will cover the gaps.
There will come a time, as you reach the farest away wall, where you have no choice but to face nail the floor. The tool will be obstructed by the wall. That's OK, just do it.
You could stain the floor yourself, but it has to be sanded smooth flat first. You could do this yourself, but I do not recommend it. The sanders use large coarse belts of sandpaper, and it is easy to gouge the floor. After instillation, leave the sanding, staining, and sealing of the floor to professionals. You'll be way better off, considering the labor you have already expended.
Expect the newly finished floor to be verboten for at leAST 24 hours, 48 if you are smart. This may mean a motel stayover.
And finally, hardwood floors are fine in kitchens and bathrooms, but I suggest you swap out all of the metal p-traps to non corrosive plastic.
That last warning is good for sealed, real hardwood floors. That goes triple for inferior products like Pergo, where all of the edges are unsealed, and therefore very vunerable to the ravages of water.
Hope this helps.
07-22-2005, 11:06 AM
#2
The Creator
wow. Great post, Dave. this will come in handy!
I wonder though, why do you suggest sanding/staining for pros? Is this for only new floors or for refinishing as well?
I've had friends who have refinished their floors and say how easy it is... I was thinking of doing it myself.
I wonder though, why do you suggest sanding/staining for pros? Is this for only new floors or for refinishing as well?
I've had friends who have refinished their floors and say how easy it is... I was thinking of doing it myself.
07-22-2005, 11:12 AM
#3
Community Architect
robb m.
robb m.
awesome post Dave!
07-22-2005, 12:07 PM
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Burning Brakes
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Adam...
Unless you are used to running a drum sander (usually about 18" wide), a simple pause in your technique can leave a serious divot in the floor.
Staining can be done by any mindless idiot, but because it is step two behind the sanding process, and takes very little time, it makes very little sense to have a hardwood flor crew come out to your job site, have them sand, then excuse them while you stain the floor, just to call them back for the final refinishing.
Just do the install, and let them take it from there. As usual, it is the travel time and the labor that accounts for most of the cost, and the stain is ready to coat in minutes.why be penny wise and pound foolish?
Staining can be done by any mindless idiot, but because it is step two behind the sanding process, and takes very little time, it makes very little sense to have a hardwood flor crew come out to your job site, have them sand, then excuse them while you stain the floor, just to call them back for the final refinishing.
Just do the install, and let them take it from there. As usual, it is the travel time and the labor that accounts for most of the cost, and the stain is ready to coat in minutes.why be penny wise and pound foolish?
07-22-2005, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by soopa
I wonder though, why do you suggest sanding/staining for pros? Is this for only new floors or for refinishing as well?
EDIT: Dave beat me to it.
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07-22-2005, 12:26 PM
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In consideration of Scribs' post #5...
Yes. there is nothing wrong with that.
If you let the contractor do the entire job from start to finish, all complaints can be drawn to him. You have no liablity.
If I had to state this all over, if the area to be floored is small, I'd say let the contractors do it. These guys work pretty fast. On the other hand, if you have thousands of square feet to cover, you may save a considerable amount if you DIY.
If you let the contractor do the entire job from start to finish, all complaints can be drawn to him. You have no liablity.
If I had to state this all over, if the area to be floored is small, I'd say let the contractors do it. These guys work pretty fast. On the other hand, if you have thousands of square feet to cover, you may save a considerable amount if you DIY.
07-22-2005, 12:44 PM
#10
The Creator
Well, were talking a house of about 1800 sq ft that is full hardwood throughout.
The downstairs is in good condition, i'd guess its been refinished in past 5 yrs (see ladder pic)
The upstairs hasnt been refinished in long time, but isnt in bad shape... just worn.
The wildcard is the wood in the hallway under that tile. Would I be able to finish that using an orbital?
If so, I'm thinking I'd save ALOT ALOT ALOT of money doing it myself.
For the kitchen, where new floor needs to be layed, I'll most definately call the pros in.
The downstairs is in good condition, i'd guess its been refinished in past 5 yrs (see ladder pic)
The upstairs hasnt been refinished in long time, but isnt in bad shape... just worn.
The wildcard is the wood in the hallway under that tile. Would I be able to finish that using an orbital?
If so, I'm thinking I'd save ALOT ALOT ALOT of money doing it myself.
For the kitchen, where new floor needs to be layed, I'll most definately call the pros in.
07-22-2005, 07:57 PM
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Burning Brakes
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Adam...for my money...
You mentioned that the pros need to be called in for the kitchen. As long as they are on site, why not have then do the entire job? All of the quality issues are transferred to them, not you, and your skills with an orbital sander, which I have no experience with.
As stated earlier, much of the cost is wrapped up in travel time and set up. This might be lesson #1 in "letting the pros do it." You are relieved of going out, renting equipment, and experimenting on very expensive floors.
And on top of that, you can tell your visitors that "these floors were professionally done". It is just a cost of being a homeowner.
As stated earlier, much of the cost is wrapped up in travel time and set up. This might be lesson #1 in "letting the pros do it." You are relieved of going out, renting equipment, and experimenting on very expensive floors.
And on top of that, you can tell your visitors that "these floors were professionally done". It is just a cost of being a homeowner.
07-22-2005, 08:36 PM
#12
The Creator
Because, I'm guessing here, refinishing ~1800 square feet of flooring (especially with all the detail work that will be required) is going to take several days (or several workers) and run me several thousand dollars.
I guess we'll see after I get an estimate...
I guess we'll see after I get an estimate...
07-22-2005, 08:59 PM
#13
Interesting. Interesting.
I got the floors in this room refinished when I first moved in 2 years ago. The entire thing cost me $1,100 It's 3 coats of poly and no stain. Note that the spaces in between the railing pickets needed to be hand-sanded, so it was a lot of work. $1,100 was very reasonable.
sorry for the crappy photos.
sorry for the crappy photos.
Last edited by wstevens; 07-22-2005 at 09:02 PM.
07-22-2005, 09:10 PM
#14
Interesting. Interesting.
One more to give a better idea of the size of the room. I beleive it is about 600 sq. ft.
Maybe some day I'll get dining room chairs and some wall hangings.
Maybe some day I'll get dining room chairs and some wall hangings.
07-22-2005, 09:11 PM
#15
Senior Moderator
Hey wstevens, any particular reason you didnt go with stained wood? Was it a $$ thing or do you prefer the natural finish.
I had prefered darker wood for the longest time, but lately the natural finish is growing on me more and more. I like how it brightens up the rooms. Decisions decisions ....
I had prefered darker wood for the longest time, but lately the natural finish is growing on me more and more. I like how it brightens up the rooms. Decisions decisions ....
07-22-2005, 09:12 PM
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I'd say go pro...
Why?
First, your floors make a STATEMENT about the quality of your house.
Second, be it orbital or drum sander, neither of these machines do corners or edges adequately, especially on existing floors. They have to be done by hand, with a special tool that "drags". Essentially, it is a curved "plane". Another something you either need to buy or rent, and learn how to use. The pros will have this as one of their everyday tools.
Just trying to save you some time and hassel. Note that I did not mention money. Money is important, but when you get into the situation that either you are doing more harm than good (therefore requiring experts to be called it to correct your errors), or it takes more of your time than expected, it pays to call in the pros.
If I read you correctly, you need to have some hardwood installers on site for some work. Let them do the whole job, freeing yourself up for something else.
Saving money is important, but going back to ECON 101, everything has a point of "diminishing returns". You will encounter this over and over again. I am a big fan of DIY, but I shy away from doing something for the first time I am not skilled at, and leave it to those who do.
Just open your wallet, Adam. You are a homeowner now. The work never ceases, and it won't be the first time.
As an example, say your sewer clogged. You willing to go to Home Depot, rent a back hoe and dig up your front yard (assuming your community would let you)?
Didn't think so. Let the pros do it when any doubts enter you mind.
First, your floors make a STATEMENT about the quality of your house.
Second, be it orbital or drum sander, neither of these machines do corners or edges adequately, especially on existing floors. They have to be done by hand, with a special tool that "drags". Essentially, it is a curved "plane". Another something you either need to buy or rent, and learn how to use. The pros will have this as one of their everyday tools.
Just trying to save you some time and hassel. Note that I did not mention money. Money is important, but when you get into the situation that either you are doing more harm than good (therefore requiring experts to be called it to correct your errors), or it takes more of your time than expected, it pays to call in the pros.
If I read you correctly, you need to have some hardwood installers on site for some work. Let them do the whole job, freeing yourself up for something else.
Saving money is important, but going back to ECON 101, everything has a point of "diminishing returns". You will encounter this over and over again. I am a big fan of DIY, but I shy away from doing something for the first time I am not skilled at, and leave it to those who do.
Just open your wallet, Adam. You are a homeowner now. The work never ceases, and it won't be the first time.
As an example, say your sewer clogged. You willing to go to Home Depot, rent a back hoe and dig up your front yard (assuming your community would let you)?
Didn't think so. Let the pros do it when any doubts enter you mind.
07-22-2005, 09:15 PM
#17
Interesting. Interesting.
Originally Posted by fdl
Hey wstevens, any particular reason you didnt go with stained wood? Was it a $$ thing or do you prefer the natural finish.
I had prefered darker wood for the longest time, but lately the natural finish is growing on me more and more. I like how it brightens up the rooms. Decisions decisions ....
I had prefered darker wood for the longest time, but lately the natural finish is growing on me more and more. I like how it brightens up the rooms. Decisions decisions ....
I just liked the lighter finish - not a cost issue. It works better with the room. A lot of light comes in through those palladium windows and the lighter floor makes the room feel "airy". Also, we wanted a darker paint color - the main color is "mocha" and the dark color under the chair rail in the dining room is chocolate - and lighter floors work better with the paint.
The room is still a work in progress. I'm think about adding a "suede" texture to the chocolate paint under the chair rail. The lighting fixture is some brass piece of crap and is going to get replaced by a brushed stainless deal.
The couch and oversized chair are also on the way out.
We don't hang out much in this room - our nice TV is in the basement/rec room.
07-22-2005, 09:17 PM
#18
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by wstevens
I just liked the lighter finish. It works better with the room - a lot of light comes in through those palladium windows. Also, we wanted a darker paint color - the lighter color is "mocha" and the darker color under the chair rail in the dining room is chocolate - and lighter floors work better with the paint.
The room is still a work in progress. I'm think about adding a "suede" texture to the chocolate paint under the chair rail. The lighting fixture is some brass piece of crap and is going to get replaced by a brushed stainless deal.
The couch and oversized chair are also on the way out.
We don't hang out much in this room - our nice TV is in the basement/rec room.
The room is still a work in progress. I'm think about adding a "suede" texture to the chocolate paint under the chair rail. The lighting fixture is some brass piece of crap and is going to get replaced by a brushed stainless deal.
The couch and oversized chair are also on the way out.
We don't hang out much in this room - our nice TV is in the basement/rec room.
For some reason I assumed you would have a toilet in every room
07-22-2005, 09:25 PM
#19
Interesting. Interesting.
Originally Posted by fdl
For some reason I assumed you would have a toilet in every room
actually a bathroom does come off that landing in front of the front door. I am almost done with it. I painted it red - which took about 7 coats.
07-22-2005, 09:41 PM
#20
Interesting. Interesting.
For anyone who cares, this is what the room looked like before we moved in (the previous resident's monstrosity)
The floors aren't shown very well, but they were pretty badly stained with some slight water damage near the front door (people obviously not wiping their feet over the years).
The floors aren't shown very well, but they were pretty badly stained with some slight water damage near the front door (people obviously not wiping their feet over the years).
07-22-2005, 11:48 PM
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If you have any doubt about how to handle large power tools, let the pros refinish the floors...the drum sanders can run at a HIGH rpm...that's why they fuck up the floor so quickly...BUT...if you are an intelligent person and can practice with the machine in a smaller room FIRST, slowly and carefully...I say try it! Worse comes to worse, you lay a few pieces of wood yourself...
Heh...50% of my expertise comes from fixing my own mistakes...the other 50%, from watching Discovery Channel and reading Handyman Magazine(a MUST for new homeowners Adam).
I'd add to Daves post:
1. Before laying the hardwood, buy a HIGH QUALITY epoxy paper(red is what I use) from your lumber mill...do not use regular roofing felt. The stuff prevents squeaks for years!
2. You can use a pnuematic nailer...but it's not much easier than pounding with a rubber mallet on small floors...over a few hundred feet, rent the air nailer.
3. You can buy PRE-Finished hardwoods that require installation only...no need to mess with any sanding or polishing. My cherry had a matte finish pre-done...looks keen. This is pretty much the standard these days in quality wood flooring...a touch more expensive than oak planks, but I think the price will even out when you factor in the finishing costs.
4. LUMBER LIQUIDATORS(.com)...some of the best prices/selection anywhere...they even carry odd wood items to really kick up the ol house. I got my butcher-block top from them, 1.5" thick, 8 ft long for $185. All I had to do was sand & oil with block oil.
And finally...DAVE IS RIGHT ~~~ Buy your own Compound Miter Saw...you will get a ton of use from it. When you pick it up, also buy a $40 blade(100-120 teeth)...it'll cut 100x cleaner than the multi-purpose blade that comes with the saw. $200 will buy a really nice saw, $100 will buy a cheap>but useable saw for flooring...don't try to use the $100 saw on good molding though
Heh...50% of my expertise comes from fixing my own mistakes...the other 50%, from watching Discovery Channel and reading Handyman Magazine(a MUST for new homeowners Adam).
I'd add to Daves post:
1. Before laying the hardwood, buy a HIGH QUALITY epoxy paper(red is what I use) from your lumber mill...do not use regular roofing felt. The stuff prevents squeaks for years!
2. You can use a pnuematic nailer...but it's not much easier than pounding with a rubber mallet on small floors...over a few hundred feet, rent the air nailer.
3. You can buy PRE-Finished hardwoods that require installation only...no need to mess with any sanding or polishing. My cherry had a matte finish pre-done...looks keen. This is pretty much the standard these days in quality wood flooring...a touch more expensive than oak planks, but I think the price will even out when you factor in the finishing costs.
4. LUMBER LIQUIDATORS(.com)...some of the best prices/selection anywhere...they even carry odd wood items to really kick up the ol house. I got my butcher-block top from them, 1.5" thick, 8 ft long for $185. All I had to do was sand & oil with block oil.
And finally...DAVE IS RIGHT ~~~ Buy your own Compound Miter Saw...you will get a ton of use from it. When you pick it up, also buy a $40 blade(100-120 teeth)...it'll cut 100x cleaner than the multi-purpose blade that comes with the saw. $200 will buy a really nice saw, $100 will buy a cheap>but useable saw for flooring...don't try to use the $100 saw on good molding though
07-23-2005, 09:20 AM
#23
I miss my 03 CL-S :(
wstevens your place looks great!
I've thought of having my condo's carpet rpelaced with hardwood, but the tricky thing is that I've got open stairs I wouldn't know what do do with...
It'd look weird having carpet on them.
And the foyer and kitchen are tiled, which I like since it's easy to clean. And the entry stairs are carpeted, too - but they're not open like the ones to go the the top floor.
Hey wstevens - if you go with the suede finish paint... be prepared for a lot of work. I did my bedroom with the RL suede finish and it was a real BITCH! The paint is super heavy and hard to apply (be sure to buy their roller, regular ones make it 10x harder, trust me!). Two coats + the hand brush coat... The end result is nice but it's a lot of work. Expensive, too.
I've thought of having my condo's carpet rpelaced with hardwood, but the tricky thing is that I've got open stairs I wouldn't know what do do with...
It'd look weird having carpet on them.
And the foyer and kitchen are tiled, which I like since it's easy to clean. And the entry stairs are carpeted, too - but they're not open like the ones to go the the top floor.
Hey wstevens - if you go with the suede finish paint... be prepared for a lot of work. I did my bedroom with the RL suede finish and it was a real BITCH! The paint is super heavy and hard to apply (be sure to buy their roller, regular ones make it 10x harder, trust me!). Two coats + the hand brush coat... The end result is nice but it's a lot of work. Expensive, too.
07-23-2005, 09:26 AM
#24
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RE: Orbital sanders...
Adam:
I have NEVER seen an orbital sander used to sand a hardwood floor flat! The drum sanders work in the direction of the grain of the wood and make scratches much less notable.
I would imagine an orbital sander would leave objectionable scratches going across the grain of the wood. I would hate to see you use an orbital sander, stain and seal with a top coat just to have you decide the scratches are objectionable and redo all over with a drum sander (just like you should have from the start.)
On top of this, these drum sanders are not light-150 pounds or so. Consider the hassel of renting one of these (you can bet it will be loaded with sawdust), the wear and tear on the trunk of the car, buying and changing the 18" wide sanding belts (not cheap) vs. paying a few bucks extra and watching a pro do this, beer in hand as you watch from the sofa.
I have NEVER seen an orbital sander used to sand a hardwood floor flat! The drum sanders work in the direction of the grain of the wood and make scratches much less notable.
I would imagine an orbital sander would leave objectionable scratches going across the grain of the wood. I would hate to see you use an orbital sander, stain and seal with a top coat just to have you decide the scratches are objectionable and redo all over with a drum sander (just like you should have from the start.)
On top of this, these drum sanders are not light-150 pounds or so. Consider the hassel of renting one of these (you can bet it will be loaded with sawdust), the wear and tear on the trunk of the car, buying and changing the 18" wide sanding belts (not cheap) vs. paying a few bucks extra and watching a pro do this, beer in hand as you watch from the sofa.
07-23-2005, 10:53 AM
#25
The Creator
Dave, I understand the argument. Believe me I do.
I've just heard so many conflicting reports, almost 90% of the people I know who have done their floors say "it was easy".
I agree completely with the "pay a pro" thing if it's something I could completely not do on my own and the difference in money was negligable. However, we're probably talking a difference of a couple thousand dollars.
Like I said though, I'll get a quote and we'll see.
Yes, I'm a homeowner and I should understand that things cost money. I have no problem with that. If this were to cost $5000... and that was that... I'd pay $5000. But if I can save $5000, be able to say I did it myself, I'd be much better off I think. Afterall, that line of thought is what has allowed me to become a homeowner in the first place.
I've just heard so many conflicting reports, almost 90% of the people I know who have done their floors say "it was easy".
I agree completely with the "pay a pro" thing if it's something I could completely not do on my own and the difference in money was negligable. However, we're probably talking a difference of a couple thousand dollars.
Like I said though, I'll get a quote and we'll see.
Yes, I'm a homeowner and I should understand that things cost money. I have no problem with that. If this were to cost $5000... and that was that... I'd pay $5000. But if I can save $5000, be able to say I did it myself, I'd be much better off I think. Afterall, that line of thought is what has allowed me to become a homeowner in the first place.
07-23-2005, 11:01 AM
#26
Burning Brakes
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Five large... that's a chunk of change.
Best of luck, my friend. I can see your point.
Just be on the cautious side when it comes to sanding. Too little can always be gone over again. Just don't try to do it deeply in one ten minute session, and find out you have to start all over.
I wish my "connections" were closer to you so they could give you some tips. Good luck. You're a smart guy. I am sure the outcome will be pleasing.
Thanks for the new forum. I just posted what little I know about ceramic tiling, another place where you can really get messed up if you are underinformed.
Just be on the cautious side when it comes to sanding. Too little can always be gone over again. Just don't try to do it deeply in one ten minute session, and find out you have to start all over.
I wish my "connections" were closer to you so they could give you some tips. Good luck. You're a smart guy. I am sure the outcome will be pleasing.
Thanks for the new forum. I just posted what little I know about ceramic tiling, another place where you can really get messed up if you are underinformed.
07-23-2005, 11:14 AM
#27
Burning Brakes
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I just replaced carpets with hardwood floors in my living/dining room - will try to take pictures tonight and post them later. I decided to go with Cherry, which turned out darker than I expected but I'm still satisfied with the outcome.
However, matching wall paint with the floor was a PITA.
However, matching wall paint with the floor was a PITA.
07-23-2005, 05:00 PM
#28
Homeless
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Originally Posted by soopa
Yes, I'm a homeowner and I should understand that things cost money. I have no problem with that. If this were to cost $5000... and that was that... I'd pay $5000. But if I can save $5000, be able to say I did it myself, I'd be much better off I think. Afterall, that line of thought is what has allowed me to become a homeowner in the first place.
It's always a PITA fixing up a home, but it's just as much fun...and when you're done, and you did it yourself...the feeling is beyond description.
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