Well guys I'd like to hear your opinnions,

I have a student rental property I just bought, When i rented it I told them that by may 1 all the renovations would be done. Well I got a little behind on the work and it took me until June to complete. I Had to remodel the entire bathroom, paint the whole house ceilings everything, I even gave the tennants the choices of colors, I had to replace all the door locks and handles, replaces all the light switches and sockets. I also had to remove 3 years of yard waste and other debris.

The tennants are not living there during the summer so I thought being a little late on the work would not be a big deal. Well I was wrong. I got a call from the parents saying that they want money back because the house was not done and they had subletters lined up for the summer that did not stay there because of the renovations. I'm suspect of their claims because they never called me until a week ago to complain. I would think that if they truly had people lined up to live there they would be calling me may2 not june. The house was livable the whole time there was still 1 fully functioning bathroom and all the mess was contained to 1 room.

Also under the local rental laws tenants that want to sub let are supposed to have a meeting with the landlords and potential sub letters so that the landlord can approve them, this has never happened, and the tenants only mentioned subletters but never said they had any lined up.

So now the tenants parents want money back for "potentially lost sub let income" as their calling it because they say they couldnt rent it because the 2nd bathroom was not complete. I already paid to paint the kids rooms whatever color they wanted, and bought them a microwave, installed new light fixtures as well. I've offered them that i'll pay for their internet for the year to compensate for the tardiness of the work. The parents say that's not enough and are threatning to put stop payments on the upcomming checks. I'm thinking about just giving them the month lates rent back as what i consider a fair compensation.

What do you guys think is appropriate? Considering I didn't hold up my end of the agreement to have things completed by may1, and they never did what they are obliged too do under the tenant act regarding subletters, I think this is quite fair.

Here's some pics
Before


After my handy work
All brand new tiles,tub,shower,toilet,sink,faucets,counters,coun ter top. Even had to replace the sub floor.

 

that bathroom needs more smaller lights and less of the operation room light.

 

that's actually a sky light, theres some nice small ones above the sink. Powder room style big round bulbs, but i couldn't get that in the pic with my cell camera, theres also a new mirror on that wall too.

 

I don't know about your issue, but I have to say I love that new blue color. The whole bathroom looks amazing. Good work!

 

I think you're being pretty generous with all that compensation. GOod work on the remodeling!

 

It's a tough situation (I know you already know that). As the person in charge of construction and promising the job to be done by May 1st, you should hold some responsibility, but, as you pointed out, they made no effort to contact you before over a month later. That shows that they really weren't pressed for it to be finished, for I know if I had people coming to stay at the house, I would've been calling the contractor BEFORE the May deadline.

Anyway, I have a few suggestions/questions:

Firstly, they seem like they're trying to get out of paying you what you were promised by pulling this so late, especially based on your age, they may think of you to be more easily persuaded to compensate them for their "losses" (I'm young too, but age is always a factor). Contractors OFTEN finish a job later then promised, car mechanics OFTEN take longer to fix a car then promised, when do you see any customers being largely compensated for it being a little late? I see small compensation like what you recommended, a year of free internet service, but I don't think you need anymore.

Secondly, if they are really continuing to get on your ass about it, let them know it was a lot of work, more than expected, especially the cleaning of THEIR mess in the yard and you apologize for the tardiness. But if they really wanted it done, they would've spoken to you earlier, and gotten on your ass. I'm SURE if they did, you would've spent more hours and sacrificed some of your free time to finish the job on time. Since they made no effort to contact you until now, that's their problem.

Sorry, it's 3am so my thoughts may be a little jumbled, I hope this helps though. Good luck

 

As long as it is not written and signed, you have deniability. I know it is fucked up, but it is really their fault for not getting things in writing. You made a verbal promise which hardly ever holds up in court. If they do have it in writing, find out what exactly they are looking for in terms of compensation. If it is reasonable, then work it out with them. If it is unreasonable, you can still ask for what they owe regardless of whatever they claim as being "loss." In a court of law, they will not uphold frivolous claims. The reason why you should be able to make compensation is that you don't have a clause (I'm assuming here) that states something along the lines of "In the event of delayed remodeling..." so it is up to your own descretion to give what you believe is reasonable. The contract (if you have one) can be broken if one party decides to not uphold their part but the consequences are up for discussion in your case. In any case, ask them to provide the leasing forms (sublet forms) and if they cannot provide that you should have at least some deniability.

Like I mentioned, ask them to show some proof. For the most part, most places when they sublet, the owner of the property needs to be contacted just to let them know that there is a change of rentalship (even if it is temporary). They should have notified you before giving you that call. Bad move on them to line up renters.

Good. Deniability.

LOL. Sorry, I was just reading one paragraph at a time. Didn't see this. Good knowledge.

Eh, you don't really have to. You've done enough. They can't stop payment just like that. It's retarded and empty threats.

You are exactly right. In a case where both of you are "wrong" although I am inclined to side with you if I was ever to make a decision because I guess overall, if they didn't tell you, which they have to under law, that there will be people moving in and you gave them some verbal promise (which you can lie, but don't really have to) that constitutes and holds up next to nothing in court.

Final say: Give them the internet and whatever you have done already. Don't give them that rent's free unless it becomes absolutely necessary (explain their part of the bargain with needing to tell you about new renters and subletters).

 

FYI, In the lease it says that we would have completed the renos by may1. The only reason it wasn't done by then was because the deal on the house ended up closing late. Originally it was supposed to close Jan1/07 and it got pushed back till march. I got to school 2 hours away so my plan all along was to go there and work on it on weekends, but when i lost 3 months that really set me back. the tenant laws here are very infavor of the tenants because its a long standing university town the laws have definatly been shaped in favor of them. A lot of things that wouldnt hold up in normal court might here. But I agreee with 3.2cls I think alot of it is that they think cause i'm young I'll fold easily. If they don't take what i've already offered they can kiss my ass and i'll see them in court that doesn't bother me at all. just more wasted time on these clowns. I knew i should have rented to the guys but i thought girls would be easier on the house.

 

Seems to know what he's talking about.

 

If they started paying you rent on may 1, and the apartment wasn't completely renovated by then; then you should refund them money for the first 2 months rent (ie the months in which work was still going on).
Even if they weren't living there, the agreement was a renovated apartment, not a work-in-progress.

I'd say its up to you to be nice & refund the money. You should've even done it up front before they complained. Its your fault (or your contractors) for not completing the job on time. If they bring you to court, I bet they not only get the refund but have grounds for contract termination.

 

BTW, you dont need to provide any further compensation then the rent. Also let this be a lesson: In the future, if something goes wrong with the apartment, let the tenant know. Don't try to hide it. mastertl's advice might be correct, but denying verbal claims is unethical (and can lead to things getting out of control...since it opens up the field to retaliation by the tenant).

 

My

Give them June's rent back and if you want the offer for internet...

Explain to them the tenant sublet laws and that they would've not been able to sublet without your approval in the first place and so they cannot hold that against you.

I assume you have a leasing contract with them, therefore, legally they cannot stop payment unless they want to take it to court.







Btw... Slinks, I agree that the denial route is unethical, however, a court will most likely not favor the tenant due to the fact that both parties have violated an agreement.

In addition the tenants are violating both a lease agreement (assuming again that he had them sign one) and the law which has much more merit than him being a month late, especially since he has made acceptable offers to make up for the added delay in work.

 

I've never denied anything, I've been quite open about my tardiness. The thing that pisses me off is that out of the blue a month and a half later they say something about shit not being done. If they legitimately had subletters ready for may1 which i was not informed of until just recently, I would have expected calls may1 saying wtf? not sometime in june. It just seems so fake to me. If they called on may 1 and said wtf, i would have gladly not cashed that months rent or rushed to finish, but this is so after the fact i have a hard time believing its validity. and yes i have a lease agreement with them. Something just feels really sketchy.

 

Tell them to cough up proof of the subletters and let them know that by law, they are required to notify you of subletters and that you had a right to approve them as a landlord. Then tell them that you will compensate them for the 2 months that they were unable to live in the location and not a penny more. If they choose not to accept that, then you have the law on your side as you made an offer of fair compensation and they failed to follow the law.

If these are reasonable people, then they should accept. If not, they are only going to end up in more trouble than they really want to deal with.

 

From what you are describing, it certainly seems like they are just trying to weasel some money or compensation out of you. It's one of those "it doesn't hurt to try" kind of things where you are on the shit end of the stick.

Lol. And while I didn't exactly recommend or condone denying your verbal promise, it would be useful to use it to your advantage in the case where they go ape shit on your ass and tries to sue or go to some other extreme. If it ever comes to that, lets hope this thread gets deleted for sake of um...well you know :thumb:

Good luck

Quick Edit: If they do take you to court, the lease agreement is the only thing that will matter. Think it was furious1smitul who mentioned this but since it is a verbal promise/agreement, it does not involve the lease in anyway. In the eyes of the law, they are the only ones who did anything wrong and cannot legally stop payment.

Oh and I like the shower corners. I am always running out of room to put stuff. I need to go install some of those corner holder things. Lets hope IKEA has some.

P.S. IKEA's restaurants/swedish meatballs are DELICIOUS. They have a frequent customer card where every 5 entrees will get you 1 free. They don't advertise it or display it and will only give it out when you ask.

 

hahaha, ikea food, do you have to put it together yourself? j/k i know its good.

 

“Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't.”
Erica Jong

FWIW Post 14 is quite close to what I was thinking in your situation.

 

Guess what? They have it in writing for things to be done by May 1st-- you acknowledged that you were late and therefore did not meet up to your end of the bargain, thus broken the contract. If this goes to court, you lose. Sorry.

Follow the advice of others -- cut your losses by giving back May & June's rent.

PS I would never go into trying to make money off of renter's in a city like Windsor. That's a risky proposition. Toronto ... OK; London ... maybe; Windsor ... NO. I have a friend in the business and he says it's a win-win in Windsor ... but I don't believe him.

 

Not necessarily. I mean until the renters can prove they've actually lost something, there is no substantial evidence or reason to pass judgment against Dougler. Sure, he didn't meet his end of the bargain, but if he does make just compensation for the fact, and only the fact, that he was late and not because the renters missed out on sublet income (which remains unproven as of this time) then they can't really "win" anything. I mean what exactly would they be suing for if they can't prove jack shit...pain and suffering? The judge will throw it out.

BUT, do give them just compensation. Internet alone is like 150/year depending on your area and one months rent should be reasonable.

 

It's actually in London, I got to school in Windsor (1 more year BOO YAHH). From what i've heard from friends parents that have bought them places for the 4 years of uni and sold they have all lost a TON of money. I know of 1 family that lost 40g's because when their kid graduated they didn't want the hassel of continuing to rent it so they sold and got low balled but wanted out.