View Poll Results: Do U Like the New Interior?
Voters: 1031. You may not vote on this poll
Do U Like the Interior Design of 4G TL
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Do U Like the Interior Design of 4G TL
Now that we have seen pix, please pick the answer that best fits you:
#3
Senior Moderator
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Voted maybe. I don't like the fact that there is so much similarity in the center stack to the Accord whereas in the 3G TL- not so much.
#4
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Center Stack
Unfortunately, there are some similiarties b/n the 2008 Accord & 2009 TSX/TL. Honda/Acura should have worked harder on separating the brands.
On a side note: that looks like it might be real metal in the TL.
On a side note: that looks like it might be real metal in the TL.
#5
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Originally Posted by TSX69
Unfortunately, there are some similiarties b/n the 2008 Accord & 2009 TSX/TL. Honda/Acura should have worked harder on separating the brands.
On a side note: that looks like it might be real metal in the TL.
On a side note: that looks like it might be real metal in the TL.
Let's be real here; Honda isn't going to spend a grip of money just to re-tool various machines used for the manufacture of various trim pieces for car interiors. They're going to do the financially smart thing and spread the cost around by using generic designs produced by the same tooling. It could be a lot worse. Let's drop the nit picking already. It's getting ridiculous.
#6
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Why is the armrest U shaped? Why is the e-brake on the drivers side? Why do you have to insert the key into the dash THEN push the start button?
The steering wheels looks gaudy imo. I hope to God that the "metalish" looking trimp is really metal and not some cheap plastic like the TSX has. What a downer.
The steering wheels looks gaudy imo. I hope to God that the "metalish" looking trimp is really metal and not some cheap plastic like the TSX has. What a downer.
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#8
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by skyy406
Why is the armrest U shaped?
Why is the e-brake on the drivers side?
Why do you have to insert the key into the dash THEN push the start button?.
Why is the e-brake on the drivers side?
Why do you have to insert the key into the dash THEN push the start button?.
The armrest has a cutout for the cup holder below.
Easier to reach.
That's a good one, but BMW does the same thing on the 3.
#10
6 Forward 1 Back
Originally Posted by skyy406
Why is the armrest U shaped? Why is the e-brake on the drivers side? Why do you have to insert the key into the dash THEN push the start button?
The steering wheels looks gaudy imo. I hope to God that the "metalish" looking trimp is really metal and not some cheap plastic like the TSX has. What a downer.
The steering wheels looks gaudy imo. I hope to God that the "metalish" looking trimp is really metal and not some cheap plastic like the TSX has. What a downer.
#11
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Originally Posted by Speed_Racer
Have you driven one already? How could you possibly know you need to insert the key THEN push the start button? Other manufacturers have the dash slot to charge the remote key, but it's not necessary to start the car. Let's just wait until it's out and then nitpick all of the details rather than critique functionality from a picture.
#12
Suzuka Master
I voted maybe, but agree they needed to seperate the dash control button from an Accord more, the current TL just has simialr placement, but you don;t feel like you're in an Accord when you get in a3G TL. Also the brake being on the right scares me, too many cars with brake on left of console angle it so that it may hit you leg if you have long legs. Hard to tell in the picture, but the guages don't look like they have the blue or red (TL-S) cirlce around the outside, I really liked that. I have had 5, yes 5 3G TL's 3 regular and 2 Type-S and I owned 5 for a reason (besides being a sick puppy), the current 3G is just perfection and I love it the styling inside and out is still fresh and current.
#13
These polls are biased against "no" If you want to create an objective poll, the answers should be "yes" or "no," not "well maybe if ..... maybe without ...."
This is like asking would you vote for Obama if he was white and republican.
This is like asking would you vote for Obama if he was white and republican.
#15
Team Owner
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Guys, I'm tellin' ya....now that I see the "U" shaped center console, Acura is going to have trouble with this. The Nav screen is a mess. I drove a TSX loaner car and hated the "No Touch" Navigation. If you're a fan of your touch screen, you'll be HUGELY disappointed. I do like the smart car starter. That's the only thing I really with my car had ('07 Type S). But, this interior will not make you want to buy an ugly exterior car like the 2009 TL.
#16
07 TL-S
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losing the touch screen sucks. the big knob is ugly, and furthermore it is in a bad position, at least the bimmer one is in a more comfortable and less ugly position. i bet they will also lock you out from entering addresses while you're driving too. i also much prefer the button layout of the old gen. why did they change the temp control from a button to a switch? and i prefer the gauge cluster of the old gen too.
not that this interior isn't better than many cars on the road, it just seems to me to be a step back from the old one imo.
not that this interior isn't better than many cars on the road, it just seems to me to be a step back from the old one imo.
#17
2011 BMW 335i
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I voted YES! Lets just put it this way, i like the interior waaaay more than I like the Exterior, exterior will definately have to grow on me, interior I like already.
#18
07 TL-S
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Originally Posted by Steven Bell
Guys, I'm tellin' ya....now that I see the "U" shaped center console, Acura is going to have trouble with this. The Nav screen is a mess. I drove a TSX loaner car and hated the "No Touch" Navigation. If you're a fan of your touch screen, you'll be HUGELY disappointed. I do like the smart car starter. That's the only thing I really with my car had ('07 Type S). But, this interior will not make you want to buy an ugly exterior car like the 2009 TL.
#19
2011 BMW 335i
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Originally Posted by Flavour
i like the push button start and a hard drive would be cool. but i wouldn't trade my interior for those two things if i had to lose the touch navi.
#20
I hate it...inside and out. That "pod" for the navi screen is just plain ugly. I hate the knob in the center....it reminds me of BMW's horrible system. BOOO Acura...they fucked up the TL really bad. This car won't sell...it's too ugly.....especially that beak they call the grill...it's horrendous.
#21
Keep in mind that the US Spec accord is a downgraded version of the Inspire in Japan, which is basically the vehicle one step down from the RL/Legend. Although the new TL does look similar to the US Spec Accord, it is purely because of the Honda-feel of the design. Honda's formula for interior placement and design is unmatched by any other car manufacturer. Once you get used to it, it works, because it is placed logically.
The navigation pod and interface is designed to reduce glare that the 3G navigation seemed to always have. It is deep within the pod to shade glare from the surface of the screen. The screen is also 8 inches wide, to account for the increased distance from the driver. The screen/pod is higher up in the dash, to reduce the amount of angle needed to look down at the navi, allowing for a better line of sight of both the road and the navi when in motion.
The dial was introduced because a touch screen navigation gets the screen dirty, as well as is a distraction to the driver who is trying to spell out a street name while trying to push the right letter. The dial allows you to rotate the selector to the right letter and if you pass it, you just have to rotate backwards.
The interior is by far the more significant evolution of the TL design. The steering wheel looks both sporty and elegant, muscular yet soft. The silver trim however doesn't flow well with the door trim. It seems a tad too thick. The 3G lines flow much more in that respect. The front side vents on the Accord/Inspire also look better designed than the 4G TL and 2G TSX, imo. My only complaint of the interior could come from the front seat's lack of cushioning on the side bolster support. The front seats seem to be a little wimpy for the bulky body it has become.
The navigation pod and interface is designed to reduce glare that the 3G navigation seemed to always have. It is deep within the pod to shade glare from the surface of the screen. The screen is also 8 inches wide, to account for the increased distance from the driver. The screen/pod is higher up in the dash, to reduce the amount of angle needed to look down at the navi, allowing for a better line of sight of both the road and the navi when in motion.
The dial was introduced because a touch screen navigation gets the screen dirty, as well as is a distraction to the driver who is trying to spell out a street name while trying to push the right letter. The dial allows you to rotate the selector to the right letter and if you pass it, you just have to rotate backwards.
The interior is by far the more significant evolution of the TL design. The steering wheel looks both sporty and elegant, muscular yet soft. The silver trim however doesn't flow well with the door trim. It seems a tad too thick. The 3G lines flow much more in that respect. The front side vents on the Accord/Inspire also look better designed than the 4G TL and 2G TSX, imo. My only complaint of the interior could come from the front seat's lack of cushioning on the side bolster support. The front seats seem to be a little wimpy for the bulky body it has become.
#22
Suzuka Master
One additional place Acura is slipping behind is the Soudn System. The ELS gimmick is over done. Sure DVD-A was nice, but since there are essentially few if any new rleeases it is a gimmick. And compared to the competition the ELS is rather poor. I have seen various reviews and I am some what of an audiophile. I'll say this, at low to moderate power the ELS (evven the 09 TL since it is essentially same as new TSX) is decent, clear and some what faithful reporduction. But the sound stage is weak, the pwer goes who knows where becasue the system has no depth. I still think the Infinit SOW on the G35 is better. And I dorve a Hyundai Genesis this past weekend tricked out with the Lexicon and WOW was it awesome, never heard a Mark Levinson in a Lexus, but if the Lexicon is anyhting to compare to ML in Lexu s then Acura is falling further behind, combine the Lexicon with the Genisis' extremely quiet cabin and you might think the orchestra is in the car with you. And while I am no dial or I-Drive fan, the Honda Acura implementaiton is cheap, the Acura looks and feels flimsy and cheap compared to all of it's competitors. Sure Infinity is plastic too, but fake looking chrome that gives it more upscale look, hell the Genesis feels metal, but I'm sure its plastic.
#23
'10 Hyundai Genesis Coupe
No touch screen nav?! How could they drop the best feature of their navi units? I hate the Audi navigation for this exact reason, its very difficult to play around with the navi with a nob.
And to the person who said it was in a poor position, I'd agree, its in a very poor position and not very driver friendly, I guess it's an attempt to get drivers to stop accessing the navi while driving.
And to the person who said it was in a poor position, I'd agree, its in a very poor position and not very driver friendly, I guess it's an attempt to get drivers to stop accessing the navi while driving.
#24
'10 Hyundai Genesis Coupe
Oh, I just noticed the fixed the rear headrests, before those would be such an issue and made it difficult to see behind you, glad they took care of that!
#25
FIGHTING ILLINI
Originally Posted by mikiTL
Keep in mind that the US Spec accord is a downgraded version of the Inspire in Japan, which is basically the vehicle one step down from the RL/Legend. Although the new TL does look similar to the US Spec Accord, it is purely because of the Honda-feel of the design. Honda's formula for interior placement and design is unmatched by any other car manufacturer. Once you get used to it, it works, because it is placed logically.
The navigation pod and interface is designed to reduce glare that the 3G navigation seemed to always have. It is deep within the pod to shade glare from the surface of the screen. The screen is also 8 inches wide, to account for the increased distance from the driver. The screen/pod is higher up in the dash, to reduce the amount of angle needed to look down at the navi, allowing for a better line of sight of both the road and the navi when in motion.
The dial was introduced because a touch screen navigation gets the screen dirty, as well as is a distraction to the driver who is trying to spell out a street name while trying to push the right letter. The dial allows you to rotate the selector to the right letter and if you pass it, you just have to rotate backwards.
The interior is by far the more significant evolution of the TL design. The steering wheel looks both sporty and elegant, muscular yet soft. The silver trim however doesn't flow well with the door trim. It seems a tad too thick. The 3G lines flow much more in that respect. The front side vents on the Accord/Inspire also look better designed than the 4G TL and 2G TSX, imo. My only complaint of the interior could come from the front seat's lack of cushioning on the side bolster support. The front seats seem to be a little wimpy for the bulky body it has become.
The navigation pod and interface is designed to reduce glare that the 3G navigation seemed to always have. It is deep within the pod to shade glare from the surface of the screen. The screen is also 8 inches wide, to account for the increased distance from the driver. The screen/pod is higher up in the dash, to reduce the amount of angle needed to look down at the navi, allowing for a better line of sight of both the road and the navi when in motion.
The dial was introduced because a touch screen navigation gets the screen dirty, as well as is a distraction to the driver who is trying to spell out a street name while trying to push the right letter. The dial allows you to rotate the selector to the right letter and if you pass it, you just have to rotate backwards.
The interior is by far the more significant evolution of the TL design. The steering wheel looks both sporty and elegant, muscular yet soft. The silver trim however doesn't flow well with the door trim. It seems a tad too thick. The 3G lines flow much more in that respect. The front side vents on the Accord/Inspire also look better designed than the 4G TL and 2G TSX, imo. My only complaint of the interior could come from the front seat's lack of cushioning on the side bolster support. The front seats seem to be a little wimpy for the bulky body it has become.
#26
black on black 04 TL 6MT
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Originally Posted by KeithL
One additional place Acura is slipping behind is the Soudn System. The ELS gimmick is over done. Sure DVD-A was nice, but since there are essentially few if any new rleeases it is a gimmick. And compared to the competition the ELS is rather poor. I have seen various reviews and I am some what of an audiophile. I'll say this, at low to moderate power the ELS (evven the 09 TL since it is essentially same as new TSX) is decent, clear and some what faithful reporduction. But the sound stage is weak, the pwer goes who knows where becasue the system has no depth. I still think the Infinit SOW on the G35 is better. And I dorve a Hyundai Genesis this past weekend tricked out with the Lexicon and WOW was it awesome, never heard a Mark Levinson in a Lexus, but if the Lexicon is anyhting to compare to ML in Lexu s then Acura is falling further behind, combine the Lexicon with the Genisis' extremely quiet cabin and you might think the orchestra is in the car with you. And while I am no dial or I-Drive fan, the Honda Acura implementaiton is cheap, the Acura looks and feels flimsy and cheap compared to all of it's competitors. Sure Infinity is plastic too, but fake looking chrome that gives it more upscale look, hell the Genesis feels metal, but I'm sure its plastic.
when i go to a barnes and noble or any audio store, they laugh when i ask if they have any DVD-audio offerings. it may have been cool back in 04, but it's almost five years later, and DVD-audio just didn't catch fire like previously anticipated. acura should ditch ELS and go with something with a bit more...ahem...punch and relevance.
#28
Instructor
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The start button/entry is a true keyless design:
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/733/releases/4676
KEYLESS ACCESS SYSTEM
TL models with the Technology Package have the latest generation of Acura's Keyless Access System (with smart entry and pushbutton ignition). The enhanced system identifies one of two drivers each time the driver's door is opened (even if it is already unlocked) then sets a multitude of features to a profile preset by that driver in the TL's memory. The system sets the driver's seat, steering wheel, outside mirrors, climate control, audio system and presets and select navigation system settings HandsFree Profile. In the event both owners approach the car at the same time, the TL will set the vehicle preferences of the Keyless Access Remote that approaches the driver's door.The Keyless Access System lets the TL owner gain access to the car without ever having to unlock it with the remote transmitter or a conventional key. The Keyless Access Remote has a unique digital identity. The car can be unlocked when the driver pulls one of the front door handles with the Keyless Access Remote in his/her possession. When carrying the fob (or if all doors are unlocked), the trunk can be opened by pressing a button on the rear fascia. Once the driver has opened the door and is seated, the Keyless Access System allows the TL to be started by pushing the Engine Start/Stop button positioned on the instrument panel. When leaving the car, a press of the soft-touch button on outside of the door handle locks all the doors. Alternatively, a press of the Lock button on the Keyless Access Remote will also simultaneously lock all the doors. The Keyless Access System will not allow the recognized transmitter to be locked in the trunk or the interior of the TL.The Keyless Access System also features a unique "quick vent" feature (activated by pressing the Keyless Access Remote "unlock" button two times and then holding it) that automatically lowers all side windows and opens the power moonroof to quickly vent built-up interior heat. In addition, turning the key in the driver's door key cylinder to the "lock" position twice (and then holding it the second time), simultaneously closes all open windows and the moonroof.
Built-in Key
The TL will signal the driver when the remote battery is low. A built-in mechanical key is provided as a back up to enter vehicle in the event that the Keyless Access Remote battery should fail. Once inside, the driver can start the car by placing the fob in an illuminated remote port near the Engine Stop/Start button. For security purposes when using a valet parking service, a trunk lockout switch is located inside the glove box. The glove box and the trunk pass-through can be locked with the key. The valet will be able to start and drive the TL using the remote, but if the owner retains the key, the valet will be unable to unlock the glove compartment or trunk.
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/733/releases/4676
KEYLESS ACCESS SYSTEM
TL models with the Technology Package have the latest generation of Acura's Keyless Access System (with smart entry and pushbutton ignition). The enhanced system identifies one of two drivers each time the driver's door is opened (even if it is already unlocked) then sets a multitude of features to a profile preset by that driver in the TL's memory. The system sets the driver's seat, steering wheel, outside mirrors, climate control, audio system and presets and select navigation system settings HandsFree Profile. In the event both owners approach the car at the same time, the TL will set the vehicle preferences of the Keyless Access Remote that approaches the driver's door.The Keyless Access System lets the TL owner gain access to the car without ever having to unlock it with the remote transmitter or a conventional key. The Keyless Access Remote has a unique digital identity. The car can be unlocked when the driver pulls one of the front door handles with the Keyless Access Remote in his/her possession. When carrying the fob (or if all doors are unlocked), the trunk can be opened by pressing a button on the rear fascia. Once the driver has opened the door and is seated, the Keyless Access System allows the TL to be started by pushing the Engine Start/Stop button positioned on the instrument panel. When leaving the car, a press of the soft-touch button on outside of the door handle locks all the doors. Alternatively, a press of the Lock button on the Keyless Access Remote will also simultaneously lock all the doors. The Keyless Access System will not allow the recognized transmitter to be locked in the trunk or the interior of the TL.The Keyless Access System also features a unique "quick vent" feature (activated by pressing the Keyless Access Remote "unlock" button two times and then holding it) that automatically lowers all side windows and opens the power moonroof to quickly vent built-up interior heat. In addition, turning the key in the driver's door key cylinder to the "lock" position twice (and then holding it the second time), simultaneously closes all open windows and the moonroof.
Built-in Key
The TL will signal the driver when the remote battery is low. A built-in mechanical key is provided as a back up to enter vehicle in the event that the Keyless Access Remote battery should fail. Once inside, the driver can start the car by placing the fob in an illuminated remote port near the Engine Stop/Start button. For security purposes when using a valet parking service, a trunk lockout switch is located inside the glove box. The glove box and the trunk pass-through can be locked with the key. The valet will be able to start and drive the TL using the remote, but if the owner retains the key, the valet will be unable to unlock the glove compartment or trunk.
#29
I'm not really feeling the interior in the same way as I did when I first saw
the '05 interior. I have a NBP with camel interior. It was love at first sight even in the pictures before I saw the car in person. Even after 3 1/2 years I still get a lift when I see it. This interior on the '09 seems kind of cold and austere; not very warm . The exterior is radically different for sure and I could like it. What sold me on the '05 was the interior, the way the car drove and handled, and of course the pricing. I would have liked to see more of an RL or Infiniti M45 wood type interior for the '09 instead of cold metal. I don't like the g interior and the m35/45 is out of my price range. The RL has wood and it's interior is very nice but that's out of my range as well. The decision will be made when I check the car out in person. It does seem like this car will be turning off alot of folks who have really grown fond of their 3rd gen. TL's. Some current TL owners will readily or reluctantly accept the changes and others will move on. Time will tell.
the '05 interior. I have a NBP with camel interior. It was love at first sight even in the pictures before I saw the car in person. Even after 3 1/2 years I still get a lift when I see it. This interior on the '09 seems kind of cold and austere; not very warm . The exterior is radically different for sure and I could like it. What sold me on the '05 was the interior, the way the car drove and handled, and of course the pricing. I would have liked to see more of an RL or Infiniti M45 wood type interior for the '09 instead of cold metal. I don't like the g interior and the m35/45 is out of my price range. The RL has wood and it's interior is very nice but that's out of my range as well. The decision will be made when I check the car out in person. It does seem like this car will be turning off alot of folks who have really grown fond of their 3rd gen. TL's. Some current TL owners will readily or reluctantly accept the changes and others will move on. Time will tell.
#31
Hi Guys, i'm a relatively new member and this is the first time I have ever looked at a Honda seriously as my next car. I like the interior, and i'm quite perplexed that they would design this interior in such a way that the beautiful touchscreen could not be implemented.
Does anyone know if the new TL is going to offer a iPod/iPhone functionality like that of Infiniti or BMW systems? From what I understand, it looks like it just charges the device, and has a standard 3.5mm stereo jack.
Does anyone know if the new TL is going to offer a iPod/iPhone functionality like that of Infiniti or BMW systems? From what I understand, it looks like it just charges the device, and has a standard 3.5mm stereo jack.
#32
Instructor
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I agree with BillTL1
we to have a NHB with camel interior 2004 TL., and that was one of the reasons for ordering that particular combination, the way if looked in something other than austere gray or black. If we could have gotten the green that was offered in 04 in Canada, that would have been the other colour choice for me.
Fear not BILLTL1, if you check some of the "first drive" impressions of the new 2009 TL, there are photographs buried in them somewhere of the new interior done in what appears to be ACURA Parchment, and some new, very rich looking colour, akin to an "oxblood" shoe leather. A seemingly very bold colour for Acura. I think this interior for the TL stands by itself. There are enough differences to distance this from the new Accord, and the new for 2009 TSX. I do hope that the Canadian buyers will not receive the VERY LIMITED choice of exterior colours as in the past, and something other than preset colour combos of exterior/interior colour schemes.
I have my countdown timer set for late September, early October so I can visit my dealer in person to see the new TL in the metal.
Gord. (I am lusting for this car already.... Franken"face" be damned)
Fear not BILLTL1, if you check some of the "first drive" impressions of the new 2009 TL, there are photographs buried in them somewhere of the new interior done in what appears to be ACURA Parchment, and some new, very rich looking colour, akin to an "oxblood" shoe leather. A seemingly very bold colour for Acura. I think this interior for the TL stands by itself. There are enough differences to distance this from the new Accord, and the new for 2009 TSX. I do hope that the Canadian buyers will not receive the VERY LIMITED choice of exterior colours as in the past, and something other than preset colour combos of exterior/interior colour schemes.
I have my countdown timer set for late September, early October so I can visit my dealer in person to see the new TL in the metal.
Gord. (I am lusting for this car already.... Franken"face" be damned)
Last edited by TL42; 08-21-2008 at 10:53 AM. Reason: *dang skipped a whole month*
#33
#35
Hi Guys, i'm a relatively new member and this is the first time I have ever looked at a Honda seriously as my next car. I like the interior, and i'm quite perplexed that they would design this interior in such a way that the beautiful touchscreen could not be implemented.
Does anyone know if the new TL is going to offer a iPod/iPhone functionality like that of Infiniti or BMW systems? From what I understand, it looks like it just charges the device, and has a standard 3.5mm stereo jack.
Does anyone know if the new TL is going to offer a iPod/iPhone functionality like that of Infiniti or BMW systems? From what I understand, it looks like it just charges the device, and has a standard 3.5mm stereo jack.
The car will have a USB port to offer full control of a later gen ipod or iPhone (it also charges). For non-apple music players, it has a headphone jack that serves as an 'aux in'. The USB can also play music from a flash drive. There is also a build in hard drive with 13 gb of user addressable storage.
#38
Senior Moderator
The interior rocks. I absolutely love it.
You'll love the big button in the center after only a few minutes with it.
You'll love the big button in the center after only a few minutes with it.
#39
I'll have to agree with everyone about not having a touchscreen navi. They're so much easier to use than using a knob and buttons. I've always preferred ergonomics over aesthetics but it seems like Acura has put looks over ease of use....
I'll agree with you for some upscale Nissans/Infinitis but having sat in both an IS and a new Camry...
...I think the pictures speak for themselves. Hardly similar.
...I think the pictures speak for themselves. Hardly similar.
#40
Racer
I think the interior looks good, yes we're going to miss the touch screen Nav, but why is this a surprise to people? Everyone new that the knob was going to be the new way to interact with the system, so why all the shock and disappointment? What I don't like about the interior is that Acura has yet to offer power tilt/telescoping steering columns and power folding outside mirrors on the TL. The last gen. Maxima had these features, it even had a heated steering wheel feature (which i really don't care for, but still...). As mentioned before, I wish we had some color in the car, whether it be red like the Type-S or the regular blue lighting. The white lighting is too plain, doesn't give the interior any character. Hopefully there are footwell lights, and this time a little brighter.
Overall, I like the interior. There are somethings that I wished the car had but by no means is the fact that they're missing, is a deal breaker. The gated shifter will be missed also, but it's no big deal. The improved sound system is much appreciated, but I agree with others that the ELS system ain't all that. It's made by Panasonic, who isn't even a major player in the aftermarket audio arena, so you know that Acura can do better. I think that Bose is over-rated, but they would do a better job with the sound system than Panasonic. Either way, the 4th gen TL is a better car than the 3rd gen TL, PERIOD. Some of you guys are just having a hard time coming to that reality, which is why there is so much nitpicking going on.
Overall, I like the interior. There are somethings that I wished the car had but by no means is the fact that they're missing, is a deal breaker. The gated shifter will be missed also, but it's no big deal. The improved sound system is much appreciated, but I agree with others that the ELS system ain't all that. It's made by Panasonic, who isn't even a major player in the aftermarket audio arena, so you know that Acura can do better. I think that Bose is over-rated, but they would do a better job with the sound system than Panasonic. Either way, the 4th gen TL is a better car than the 3rd gen TL, PERIOD. Some of you guys are just having a hard time coming to that reality, which is why there is so much nitpicking going on.