svtmike

You'll get no argument from me on that point.

F23A4

I suppose it’s a fortunate thing that I live on the eastern seaboard and rarely find myself driving at any substantial elevation. (Isn’t BMW notorious for underrating the power levels in their offerings?)

BEAR-AvHistory

Me too. Have always lived at close to sea-level in New Jersey, Buckingham, England & North Carolina. Have owned way more NA performance cars then Turbo or Supercharged ones.

Yeah BMW cheats big time on the ratings. Of the three coupes one matched the factory BHP rating with DynoJet WHP. The other two including the current one the WHP has exceeded the advertised BHP. My current car rated at 355BHP is running 369WHP.

Enough similar dynos for the M-performance version (MPPSK/THP) are within a few WHP + or - of my numbers indicating a major under rate as opposed to an outlier dyno reading. Upper mid 12 second ET's low teen trap speeds support the WHP number.

Back in the advertised 300BHP days there were about 6 versions of that motor with the 300 rating. 3 versions of the N54 all dynoed at different numbers & only one calculated out to match 300BHP the rest were above it. My N54 did 319WHP on a 320BHP rating. That was the 335is version.

A new engine N55 replaced the N54 & even with changes like increasing the downpipe from 3.5" to 4" in diameter along with waste-gate updates they maintained the 300BHP rating till the current B58 was released with 320BHP showing a consistent 331/333WHP on the dyno. That is why the stock 340/440 with an advertised 320BHP without the MPPSK can still run 4.4 0-60MPH & hang in with the 400BHP advertised Infinity RED.

So since 2007 BMW has released at least 3 new engines each with multiple versions not counting they all have MPPK (power packs) as options.

If Acura gets its act together & goes turbo 400BHP performance should be easier to attain then it is for the 340/440 since the TLX has a bigger motor to start with 2998CC vs 3500CC. With AWD & good tires for traction it could put down some mid 4 second to 60 runs.

Hole in the donut is they might pull a TL S-Type with a very small displacement increase 22CC & not much more power like they did the last time. One of the better points about bitching here about the lack of competitive power is to get them to skip the donut & get a Filet Mignon.

mapleloaf

I don't believe a type S 400 HP plus turbo will "save" Acura, given the small market segment that cares. Nor will the NSX for that matter, a superior vehicle that few can afford. Rather, Acura needs to improve the reliability and broad appeal of the cars and SUVs they do make, which I believe they are at least inching back to in the past 1-2 years. Even with that, it's such a competitive marketplace that there is less and less room for the affordable luxury that Acura provides, as more mainstream companies load up with technology and other luxury features. Affordable luxury is an important part of what initially attracted people to Acura products over the past 20 years or so, but now consumers have many more choices. Its equally tough to make inroads into the market share of the more prestigious brands that many buy for the badge.

BEAR-AvHistory

I don't expect a 400BHP car to save Acura based on sales of 400BHP versions. It will sell but will also put some teeth into the whole performance image Acura has been pushing since the TLX release. There is a saying in the real-estate business Location, Location, Location. I believe there should be a similar set of words for the car industry, Image, Image, Image.

BMW does not sell a bunch of M3/4's but that image plus similar underpinnings does help to move a lot of 320 & 430's. People generally see a few things when a 3/4 passes by. Rich Jerk, Fast Car, Nice Car, Arrogant Driver, Good Performance, Great Handling etc.

A 320 in itself might not have any of these attributes but most people outside of the brand generally have one of those images in mind when they see a 320. The expensive performance versions of the 3/4 set the image of what people see & that image is in the mind of many people shopping for a new car. Its the badge thing even when the actual car model can't meet the image of the brand.

You can't sell a car that is really indistinguishable from a Camry as a premium product. There is a lot of back & forth that the TLX is not a super Accord or Camry but what is the thing that sets it apart?

About 8 years ago Bob Lutz one of the best "car guys" & the father of a number of performance & luxury cars said in the near future the features available in a car will be indistinguishable from an economy car through luxury cars. The future is now & ACURA has not yet figured out how to set itself apart from other similar cars.

donfilo

the honda accord and the toyota camry are amazing cars in ther current incantation so if a 2018 tlx aspec is a super accord or mega camry ill take that!
i like acuras lot because everyone dosent have one

BEAR-AvHistory

That's a jelly side up or jelly side down depending on where you are standing. Jelly side up for you because your car is "exclusive" (term used very loosely) Jelly side down for ACURA because they are not selling very many of them.

Christopher.

I could be wrong, but I think BEAR agrees if I say that Acura needs to have one under $50K car that shows a clear performance advantage over whatever Honda is selling. Sure, it's a tough spot to fill, but they need to make a Civic Type R beating Acura, for under $50K - besides the NSX that simply does not seem like a car that "normal" people buy. It's a "Super Car". Maybe I can't afford the 3.0 Turbo TLX myself, but at least the letters "TLX" won't be scoffed at anymore if they put those letters on a car worthy of the same respect given to an Audi S5 or BMW "M" class car. Acura just has to deliver it at a lower price point than the Audi or BMW, and they can, because they're Japanese and nobody has more "grit" + intelligence + willingness to work hard + obsessive desire for excellence, than the Japanese.

(Here's a funny little anecdotal piece/test for you to ponder: try a strawberry in Tokyo, then try one in America, and one in Germany (or France, or wherever in Europe) - the American and German strawberries are basically shit compared to the Japanese one, seriously - the Japanese ones are on a whole new level above.)

BEAR-AvHistory

Actually the Koreans are burying the Japanese as the low cost supplier & they are already there with the Stinger GT. My grandsons Genesis R-Spec Coupe is a nice 3.8L 345BHP V6, Brembo braked, 6MT with a LSD, 19" Michlen PSS tires & full sport suspension for $30K. The Stinger will put you in a 365BHP sub 5 second car for $38K to start up to $49K for the level 2 version. In the KIA propoganda the only non-German they compare the car to is Lexus. This generation will not get them equality but it will gain recoginition that its knocking on the door.

Re Japanese strawberries, never noticed anything special about them but then I was not into comparing strawberies.

Where in the past the TL was compared to the German & Japanese cars in the car magazine multi-car tests the Stinger has taken its place so the outside preception in the industry is shifting away from the TLX for now. The next generation best be the real big home run that was promised for this generation TLX.

As for building an M or AMG challenger as we use to say in Jersey, forgettaboutit.

The TLX is an all American car so we have to take some of the blame. The Japanese company HONDA owns ACURA but the TLX is designed in Torrance CA & built in Marysville OH with US built engines, transmissions, running gear & interior.

Christopher.

Well, I had Japanese strawberries that were a bargain at $1 each - simply one washed strawberry on a bamboo skewer, 100 Yen. Perhaps the best $1 I'd ever spent.

OK, how about KOBE Beef? [Angus? Ha!] Japanese take other country's inventions and "turn them up to 11" - at least they had done that early on with Honda and Toyota, with Fuji Apples, Kyoho Grapes, Sony Walkman, early Japanese stereo electronics...

I guess Japanese companies got big, and complacent? Korean car companies are the "new guy" struggling to earn respect and gain a new reputation? I'm not saying I need to see Acura take over the world, but I sure would like to see one more reach for glory, one more real and sincere stab at success, in the world of "affordable luxury and performance" both in one vehicle (obviously the recent NSX doesn't qualify).

BEAR-AvHistory

No such thing. A "luxury" is an expensive not necessary item. In cars now a days luxury starts around $80K. There are a sh*t load of $70K SUV's & Pickup trucks. To replace my FORD Expedition even up item for item would cost me $77K MSRP. That's about $14K more then the BMW 440's MSRP.

Hard to call the BMW 440 a luxury car when my trucks replacement costs more.

slimm1469

Acura has a branding problem. The TLX is well positioned as a semi-lux, semi-sports sedan but the message is missing, at least in the U.S. If the message got out that TLX is an upscale version of the wads of $30k USD cars, that would help. They flubbed the dub with the "It's that kind of thrill" message 'cause that's way overstating things.

mapleloaf

I think they do in terms of sedans, but I think they do just fine with SUVs. It's been stated before but I believe part of their issue is they don't market strengths like SH-AWD, P-AWS, the RLX hybrid system, etc. I'm not sure I agree that the flub had a lot to do with "It's that kind of thrill" message. It seems like every sedan brand likes to emphasize sporty and performance attributes...well at least in terms of the sedans you actually see advertised these days amidst a sea of SUVs. Whatever the magic formula is, it's getting a lot tougher in the market place to increase sedan sales.

svtmike