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This was a subject I wasn't going to touch, but my wife kept seeing everyone else on social media making bread and wanted some. So...yeah.
I started with a simple no knead bread...and then forayed in to sourdough...making and growing a starter...having a quasi successful first attempt to my successful 2nd attempt today.
Started with a simple no knead dough:
Then, I decided to try and make a starter levain to make a sourdough...My first attempt the leaving wasn't quite ready so it had the right taste but didn't rise and was too dense in the very center:
Then, I figured how to really get the starter fed and growing in a warm environment, made the dough...then 4 hours of stretching out every 30 min, to shaping, to proofing in the fridge over night. To making my next two loaves which were totally successful:
Heating pad in a cracked open oven kept it warm enough for the starter to thrive and grow. The rubber band is where the starter began Nice and bubbly and active Initital starter, water, and flour mixed stretch and folding every 30 min over 4 hour minimum period The dough is shaped and put in bowls. The bowls are place in the fridge to retard over night.
I fired up some new sourdough starter last weekend as well; I'm going to warm it up this weekend and feed it; I'll probably make some waffles with the left over starter.
I fired up some new sourdough starter last weekend as well; I'm going to warm it up this weekend and feed it; I'll probably make some waffles with the left over starter.
I have a cup of leftover starter still active in the fridge...going to make pancakes or pizza dough or something with it.
Been rocking the the sourdough. Making a lot of loaves for friends. Custom score each one. Some work and some don’t and yes one is a penis because I’m that friend. Trying a new twist in tonight’s dough, cherries!
The cherry bread turned out fucking amazing. I will be making more of that. Made another round of sourdough blueberry pancakes, still my fave. And some more loaves to give away. Oh and this morning I made blueberry scones....and I hate this made for the loaves I give away 😁
This is to any of y'all baking or with experience in baking using a sourdough starter instead of commercial yeast.
My previous sourdough experience dates back more than five years when I was using a sourdough starter I purchased from the King Arthur flour company. It was a reasonably effective yeast, but not very sour, and I like sour. I eventually tired of the ho-hum taste of those breads and let the starter die out.
Fast forward to the COVID-9 era and working from home, I decided to shop for a new starter, one reputed to be real sour. The starter I found is easily as sour as the most sour bread I've had the pleasure of eating in San Francisco, however, I've had some very disappointing results when it comes to bread making. Yeah, making a sourdough sponge and then using it as batter for waffles is awesome, but trying this new starter out in the realm of a yeast risen bread has been very much a problem. Why? Not sure.
In my first three attempts to get this new starter to rise, I did my usual overnight sponge prep, mixed in flour for the dough (about half, then wait 1 hour and add the second half of the dough flour), performed hand kneading, and then set the dough aside for a rise. My attempts ended as follows:
After failing to rise, I tried making some flatbread with it; tasty but dense as hell and not terribly edible.
After failing to rise, I baked the unrisen dough in a cast iron pot and baked it. Once again the result was tasty but extremely dense.
After failing to rise, I decided it was science experiment time and simply left the covered dough on the counter and periodically checked on it. After six hours, nothing. After ten hours, nothing. Yesterday morning, after twenty hours, hmmm, maybe an inch of rise. Yesterday evening, after over thirty-two hours, the dough had doubled in size, yes, you read that correctly, it took 32 hours to double in size.
I decided not to bother screwing with a punch down and re-rise, I heated up the oven, baked the empty cast iron pot for a half-hour and then poured the dough into the hot pot and baked it. I need to reiterate that, the dough I had prepared Saturday morning had partially liquefied by Sunday evening and it literally poured out of the rising bowl into the pot.
My question is, have any of y'all needed to rise your sourdough for any where near as long as 32 hours?
The night before I want to make a dough I bring my starter out from the fridge at like 7:30PM and let it come up to room temp. At around 9:30PM I feed it 50g of a 50/50 AP and WW flour. The next morning around 9:30AM I feed it again, usually 100g of 50/50. At about 1:30-2pm I bring it out to start making my dough...usually at the peak of the starter rise or JUST after it starts falling back down.
When I make my dough I dissolve my starter throughly in water...then add in and mix my flour. Once thats mixed I let it sit for about 30min (autolease) and then I add salt/hint more water. Then I transfer to a new bowl. And every 30 min for about 4 hours I turn a turn and fold on the dough to build up the gluten. After that I do my shaping and then the dough goes in the proofing baskets, covered, and in the fridge for cold fermentation for at least 9 hours. And I bake the next morning.
The longer you cold ferment the more the flavors develop. If you want my acid/sour in your taste...whole wheat flour is the answer...use more whole in your starter feed, than all purpose. I just baked a batch this morning and it the most sour bread I've made yet. Its still tasty, but I like a tad less sour, especially when I'm adding this such as cherries or dates. So, I'm going to correct my starter with more AP flour next time I feed it.
Thanks man, interesting, you do two feedings before you make your dough, awesome idea! I haven't purchased any proofing baskets yet; I've been waiting to make sure I figure out the dough making process first. I'll keep you posted.
One of the things I used to do with my circa 2015 starter, which was a family favorite, was to add whole cloves of garlic, lots of rosemary, and extra olive oil to the dough during the kneading process. Yeah, we like it very sour and pungent.
Also...you wont see a ton of rise in the proofing. I get some rise during my turn and folds...I'm also introduced air into the dough. I'm getting about an inch or 2 of rise during cold proofing which is more than I usually get. But the real rise comes during the initial bake with the lid on the dutch oven.
I forgot I took this photos. Here is a my dough in the basket after cold proofing all night in the fridge. Biggest rise I had gotten to date. This is from my date/Pecan loaf. When I put the shipped dough into the basket it sat just below the lip of the basket. I was very surprised to see this as it happened to me before.
I've been refining and trying a new things here and there...but all in all still making sourdough. I've starting milling my own hard winter red wheat berries to use, and bought a 50lb bag of organic bread flour. I've even sold 6 loaves at the moment. They were all friends who wanted more after their initial free loaves. So, I guess I'm the drug pusher of sourdough now.
Thanks for the update, you are waaaaay in front of me, so far in front I rather doubt I'll ever catch up. That said, I've been working on getting the flavor as sour as possible and getting the a good consistency for the middle of the bread. Good, bad, or otherwise, regardless of the type of flour I use, all-purpose flour, high-protein bread flour, Einkorn, rye, or various combinations thereof, my first rise takes upwards of 36+ hours (30 or so before it even begins to rise, and then another 6-8 hours before it doubles). From sponge to cooling rack has taken me as long as three days for a single loaf, but wow, what a loaf! Everybody I give a slice to has their eyes roll back in their head and go weak at the knees when they take their first bite.
Unlike your works of art, all I do is make the sponge, add half of the remaining flour, wait an hour or so, and the other half of the remaining flour, knead, rise, punch, rise again, and then I cook it in a hot enameled cast iron Dutch oven. Yeah, not a great look but serviceable.
Thanks for the update, you are waaaaay in front of me, so far in front I rather doubt I'll ever catch up. That said, I've been working on getting the flavor as sour as possible and getting the a good consistency for the middle of the bread. Good, bad, or otherwise, regardless of the type of flour I use, all-purpose flour, high-protein bread flour, Einkorn, rye, or various combinations thereof, my first rise takes upwards of 36+ hours (30 or so before it even begins to rise, and then another 6-8 hours before it doubles). From sponge to cooling rack has taken me as long as three days for a single loaf, but wow, what a loaf! Everybody I give a slice to has their eyes roll back in their head and go weak at the knees when they take their first bite.
Unlike your works of art, all I do is make the sponge, add half of the remaining flour, wait an hour or so, and the other half of the remaining flour, knead, rise, punch, rise again, and then I cook it in a hot enameled cast iron Dutch oven. Yeah, not a great look but serviceable.
If the result in taste is what you want, then rock on!
I cook in a cheap enameled dutch oven, too. Basically, I feed my levin and I try and use it at the top of its rise (I typically feed it twice: once at night and again in the morning) I make my dough with the levin, water, and flour. I let it auto lease for 20-30 min...add my salt and little more water, move it to a clean bowl and proceed to perform turn and folds every 30min for 3-4 hours, then I shape, rest, and then final shape. Then, it goes into the fridge to cold ferment for 12 or more hours.
As far as flavor goes...try growing your starter with just wheat. Thats where the sour comes in...and maybe try and up your wheat flour to 20% in the dough. The temp at which you make the dough also has a lot to do with flavor. As does cold fermenting...the longer its in the fridge the most digestible the gluten becomes and the more the flavor develops. I've been keeping my sourdough more on the neutral side of tastes but everyone keeps telling me to start a business ...me and everyone else during this Corona time era, ha.
I've been playing with flavors...I did roasted garlic and fresh thyme that I baked in a loaf pan that turned out well, I did a matcha and sweet red bean paste (REALLY GOOD), I did turmeric and pepper. And Ive done some more cherry as well as date and toasted pecan which are ones I've sold. I'm currently making another chocolate and cherry for my mom.
I also made a zucchini bread this weekend using zucchinis that are growing in our garden plot.
Since my sourdough bread making journey started 14 weeks ago I've produced a total of 18 loaves of bread, errr, no, that isn't right, I've "tried" to produce 18 loaves of bread; maybe 14 have been successful, or at least edible.
My latest effort was with a 60/40 mix of wheat flour and dark rye/pumpernickel flour; this is the third time I've tried to make a dark rye/wheat blend; all previous attempts were reasonably successful, but this one rocks! The difference this time is, instead of fermenting wheat flour for the initial sponge, I fermented the dark rye flour. Right off the bat I knew things were very different; my wheat flour sponges (i.e. 1/2 cup of starter cultures plus 2 1/2 cups each of water and flour) would hit their peak activity between six and ten hours (depending upon how cool it is in my kitchen; the cooler the longer). The dark rye sponge didn't even generate more than a few bubbles for upwards of ten hours and didn't hit peak activity for well over thirty hours. Given the differences in rye versus wheat gluten, it wasn't any surprise when the resultant dough never fully attained the glutenous mass characteristics, nor was it a surprise when the dough got too watery after the first rise. In the end, I re-kneaded the dough between the first and second rise and added enough additional wheat flour to give me some semblance of a bread dough; and by the time it came out of the oven, over 60 hours had elapsed from making the initial sponge to final loaf of bread.
The good news is this loaf is by far the most "bread-like", has a wonderfully thick and crunchy crust, and is loaded with flavor.
Last edited by horseshoez; Jul 21, 2020 at 10:23 AM.
Cool, thanks. I've noticed the new(ish) "spiral style" dough hook is not compatible with the 5-Quart and smaller mixers so I'll probably just buy a new "C" style dough hook and keep it in reserve for when mine finally breaks off.
Last edited by horseshoez; Jul 29, 2020 at 10:11 AM.
