01CLS-Auto vs. 03CLS-Manual
08-09-2005, 05:14 PM
#1
2004 Acura TL
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01CLS-Auto vs. 03CLS-Manual
I've been racing around in my 01 CLS Auto for about 3 months now. Have to say I'm very impressed with the performance. I'm running pretty much stock with AEM CAI. Can't say I have ever lost a race to a car that is not totally out of my league so figured I would look for some comp and race the family. What's gonna happen when I go up against an 03' CLS Manual? How bad am I going to get beat.. will I get beat? Just curious.
08-10-2005, 07:33 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
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Depends on his tires too. The manuals are tricky to launch. That's why both the M6 and the A5 will run the same ET's at the track (stock for stock)... the auto's generally have a better take off whereas the manuals will make up for it in the top end (and therefore end up trapping higher mph's.)
Bottom line though is that the odds are against you, and a fairly decent driver should start pulling away as of 2nd gear.
Bottom line though is that the odds are against you, and a fairly decent driver should start pulling away as of 2nd gear.
08-10-2005, 11:42 AM
#5
I've had both an '01 CLS 5AT and an '03 CLS 6MT. Out-of-the-box the 6MT is quicker. Once you get a 6MT launched and into 2nd gear, it will keep pulling on a 5AT all the way up in the gears. Unlike the 5AT which hits a brick wall in 4th, the 6MT gearing is much more evenly spaced.
08-12-2005, 11:13 AM
#6
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I have the '01 whereas my ex-gf had the '03 6spd. Everytime she tried to race me, I'd smoke her.... Bigtime. From a stop, from a roll, highway speed, whatever. I think a lot of it is driver. Her launches always sucked.
08-12-2005, 11:53 AM
#7
Originally Posted by chriskh
I have the '01 whereas my ex-gf had the '03 6spd. Everytime she tried to race me, I'd smoke her.... Bigtime. From a stop, from a roll, highway speed, whatever. I think a lot of it is driver. Her launches always sucked.
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08-12-2005, 12:24 PM
#9
Originally Posted by chriskh
Maybe but for some reason she was always irritated at me afterwards.... haha
(note: I'm speaking from experience )
08-12-2005, 02:01 PM
#10
2004 Acura TL
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Figured as much. Oh well. What U think I should do next to gain some speed/power. Done all the basics.. Of course most have nothing to do with perfomance. Tint, H&R Sport springs (Tein Coilovers coming), AEM CAI, Minor system upgrade. Headers or cat back exhaust system? Suttn else?
08-12-2005, 03:05 PM
#11
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Headers will give you 30whp.
A catback system will give you 1 or 2whp.
Headers should be next on your acceleration-related mod list, without a doubt. Every knowledgeable dude on this site would agree with me.
If you really wanna go nuts, get the Comptech blower too...
A catback system will give you 1 or 2whp.
Headers should be next on your acceleration-related mod list, without a doubt. Every knowledgeable dude on this site would agree with me.
If you really wanna go nuts, get the Comptech blower too...
08-13-2005, 02:07 PM
#12
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I've raced two at the track when I was 5AT.
First time I had tires/intake he was bone stock. I ran 14.5 to his 14.6. However his trap speed was 3MPH faster (95 vs 98)
Second time I had I/H/E/tires/springs he had tires and AEM intake. I ran 14.2 @ 97 vs 14.3 @ 98.
First time I had tires/intake he was bone stock. I ran 14.5 to his 14.6. However his trap speed was 3MPH faster (95 vs 98)
Second time I had I/H/E/tires/springs he had tires and AEM intake. I ran 14.2 @ 97 vs 14.3 @ 98.
08-13-2005, 03:36 PM
#13
TQ > MPG
From a stop you will probably get 1/2 car length, after that it will be a gradual but pronounced walking. This is assuming the other guy is a good driver and you are too. If either of you mess up the launch it will change the outcome. The 6 speed dyno's ~ 20whp more than where you're at, so your only hope is a race from like 0-60mph, because after that it will def pull on you.
08-14-2005, 09:04 PM
#14
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Your kidding... right?
Originally Posted by NSX-Tuner
LOL... She doesn't want to crush your ego...
I used to have an 01 CLS, with significant modding... CT Headers, AEM intake and UR pulleys. I thought it was fast till I drove a 03 CLS 6MT. I recently purchased a 6MT. I think that the 6MT was faster than my modded 5AT.
Just think about the difference in drive train efficiencies... you are talking 15 - 20%. Do the math on that converting crank HP to WHP. Comptech rates their S/C at +40WHP for the auto and +60 for the 6MT. Same S/C unit... the only difference is drivetrain efficiency.
The only problem I have with launching the 6MT is too much HP for tires I have on. You have to do a more gradual accelleration to WOT or you will just smoke your tires.
Trade cars with your g/f... and try again.
08-14-2005, 09:28 PM
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08-15-2005, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
There's more than just the dirvetrain efficiency between the two S/C'er kits. The voltage clamp on the 6MT is different and thus allows more timing.
I had called Comptech a while back as I was considering the S/C when I had my 5AT and they told me that it was just a function of drivertain efficiency.
08-15-2005, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by goredcar
This is interesting...Can you give me some more details? I am no S/C expert, but from an electrical perspective I don't see how the voltage clamp could make a difference unless it is connecting to more than just voltage source.
I had called Comptech a while back as I was considering the S/C when I had my 5AT and they told me that it was just a function of drivertain efficiency.
I had called Comptech a while back as I was considering the S/C when I had my 5AT and they told me that it was just a function of drivertain efficiency.
The voltage clamp controls the MAP sensor's signal to the ECU. If the voltage clamp wasn't in place, as soon as the MAP sensor detected boost it would retard timing. The higher the voltage allowed, the more timing the ECU will run (err, the less it will retard).
08-15-2005, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
The voltage clamp controls the MAP sensor's signal to the ECU. If the voltage clamp wasn't in place, as soon as the MAP sensor detected boost it would retard timing. The higher the voltage allowed, the more timing the ECU will run (err, the less it will retard).
Does this also have an impact on required octane? as in the 6MT S/C requiring a higher octane fuel?
08-16-2005, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
The voltage clamp controls the MAP sensor's signal to the ECU. If the voltage clamp wasn't in place, as soon as the MAP sensor detected boost it would retard timing. The higher the voltage allowed, the more timing the ECU will run (err, the less it will retard).
08-16-2005, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by scalbert
Actually the lower the clamp level the lower the percieved load which will result in more timing. I beleive it has more to do with the drivetrain and how it responds to the SC.
08-16-2005, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by scalbert
Actually the lower the clamp level the lower the percieved load which will result in more timing. I beleive it has more to do with the drivetrain and how it responds to the SC.
You know... I guess that does make a lot more sense. Ram tried to explain it one time and mentioned something about the clap level on the 6MT adding to the power difference.
08-16-2005, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by scalbert
We tend to stay at Holiday-Inn Express's.
As for the threads question: Given equal drivers, an auto requires headers to be even. Think of it this way, a 6speed comes with a headers worth of HP. So it can do some damage when it actually gets headers. I think that its more about the TQ of the 6sp that helps them in runs. Even with headers,intake,pulley, etc.. we only gain 10-20 tq. the 6 speed starts off with that extra lead which is very helpful since most boltons hardly help in the tq dept.
In a race, if all you have is an intake, and the other driver is stock but good at shifting, i would estimate 1.5-2 cars in the 1/4 mile. If you are within one car length, then you did extremely well.
08-17-2005, 06:53 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
Glad to see you around again Steve. Check your PMIt is hard to get too far away from a home I was at for many years. Plus, with the EU and the work I am doing with it, I have got to be around more now.
08-19-2005, 04:21 PM
#28
Originally Posted by scalbert
It is hard to get too far away from a home I was at for many years. Plus, with the EU and the work I am doing with it, I have got to be around more now.
08-19-2005, 04:29 PM
#29
Less drivetrain loss, better gearing, less weight and reliability makes 6MT better option. The only dissadvantage is traction vs auto but this is FWD. Regardless, my next car is manual V8 but RWD, well unless I opt for stock IC 13psi E55 AMG 
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