Woman on disability leases an M6
02-08-2008, 09:54 AM
#1
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Woman on disability leases an M6
Leased an M6 for $1300/month with a $30k down payment while making $2500/month on DISABILITY) and claims its the dealers fault for giving her the lease.
http://cbs5.com/local/auto.loan.defaults.2.645976.html
Auto payment defaults doubled last year and are expected to get worse. It is another financial meltdown waiting to happen similar to the crisis in the home mortgage industry, according to one consumer group. A CBS 5 ConsumerWatch investigation has found consumers locked into cars they cannot afford.
According to Power Information Network, 1.85 of the 9.6 million customers in 2006 who leased or financed a new car were subprime borrowers or consumers with weak credit.
Vivian Snyder has strong credit and is not classified as subprime, but she is one of many consumers who can't afford the car she leased. Snyder drives a brand new convertible BMW with a MSRP listed at approximately $100,000.
Most consumers can't afford it, and neither can Vivian. That's because the monthly lease payment is $1,300. It eats up half her income which is a $2,500 disability check.
Yet, she got it at BMW of Fremont without showing a drivers license, pay stub, or any proof of income.
How did this happen? Apparently, her income was inflated by nearly 150%.
According to consumer advocate Rosemary Shahan with Consumers for Auto Reliability and Safety the practice is common.
"This is an epidemic of loan applications being falsified. In fact, the model for the meltdown we're seeing in real estate and home mortgage lending was auto lending."
Vivian's story starts like so many others. She went to the dealership which is owned by Autonation, the largest automobile retailer in the country just to look.
She got caught up in the excitement and said she told the salesperson about her $2,500-a month income. But, what ended up on the credit application was the amount she could be making if she was not on disability.
"He (the salesperson) put what he thought I needed to get qualified for the car," according to Vivian.
She admits she signed the lease credit application with her income inflated.
But CBS5 reviewed the lease application handed to Vivian as she left and compared it to a page from the same multi-layer document she retrieved days later.
Vivian's income had been changed once again - from $6,000 to $8,600 without her knowing.
General Manager Larry Long said a salesperson insists he changed the figure while Vivian was present.
"I witnessed that sale. I saw her and congratulated her. She was so thankful. She was so passionate about wanting that car and would have done anything to get that car," Long said.
Larry directs the blame on the finance company - BMW Financial Services.
"It's up to them to look at the credit application and they will see it at face value what the customer puts on paper as to be the truth," Long said.
Martha McKinley, a spokesperson with BMW Financial Services, said, "We have investigated this matter internally, and we are satisfied that BMW Financial Services acted appropriately at all times during the application and credit review process."
Vivian has only a few options. She can plead with the finance company to release her from the lease or have the car repossessed, losing her good credit and a $30,000 down payment which consisted of her entire retirement savings.
"I'm greatly embarrassed," Vivian said. "I should have looked over the contract better."
According to Power Information Network, 1.85 of the 9.6 million customers in 2006 who leased or financed a new car were subprime borrowers or consumers with weak credit.
Vivian Snyder has strong credit and is not classified as subprime, but she is one of many consumers who can't afford the car she leased. Snyder drives a brand new convertible BMW with a MSRP listed at approximately $100,000.
Most consumers can't afford it, and neither can Vivian. That's because the monthly lease payment is $1,300. It eats up half her income which is a $2,500 disability check.
Yet, she got it at BMW of Fremont without showing a drivers license, pay stub, or any proof of income.
How did this happen? Apparently, her income was inflated by nearly 150%.
According to consumer advocate Rosemary Shahan with Consumers for Auto Reliability and Safety the practice is common.
"This is an epidemic of loan applications being falsified. In fact, the model for the meltdown we're seeing in real estate and home mortgage lending was auto lending."
Vivian's story starts like so many others. She went to the dealership which is owned by Autonation, the largest automobile retailer in the country just to look.
She got caught up in the excitement and said she told the salesperson about her $2,500-a month income. But, what ended up on the credit application was the amount she could be making if she was not on disability.
"He (the salesperson) put what he thought I needed to get qualified for the car," according to Vivian.
She admits she signed the lease credit application with her income inflated.
But CBS5 reviewed the lease application handed to Vivian as she left and compared it to a page from the same multi-layer document she retrieved days later.
Vivian's income had been changed once again - from $6,000 to $8,600 without her knowing.
General Manager Larry Long said a salesperson insists he changed the figure while Vivian was present.
"I witnessed that sale. I saw her and congratulated her. She was so thankful. She was so passionate about wanting that car and would have done anything to get that car," Long said.
Larry directs the blame on the finance company - BMW Financial Services.
"It's up to them to look at the credit application and they will see it at face value what the customer puts on paper as to be the truth," Long said.
Martha McKinley, a spokesperson with BMW Financial Services, said, "We have investigated this matter internally, and we are satisfied that BMW Financial Services acted appropriately at all times during the application and credit review process."
Vivian has only a few options. She can plead with the finance company to release her from the lease or have the car repossessed, losing her good credit and a $30,000 down payment which consisted of her entire retirement savings.
"I'm greatly embarrassed," Vivian said. "I should have looked over the contract better."
02-08-2008, 10:09 AM
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I can't stand how these people claim to be victims and say it someone else's fault. It's not; it's their fault. They should know better than to try to lease/buy a car/house/TV/whatever that they can't afford. Common sense should tell you that if you make $30k/year that you can't afford a $100k car.
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02-08-2008, 10:27 AM
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regardless of if she was on disability or not. If you are only getting 2500K a month, what the fuck are you doing in a BMW dealership. You should be in a Honda, Kia, Hyundai or Saturn or simliar dealership. 
Yet another example of many American's stance that "it's the other guys fault, not mine".
Yet another example of many American's stance that "it's the other guys fault, not mine".
02-08-2008, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by enigmaos
she signed the contract and even put 30k down. then she regrets?? WTF.
She knowingly put money down and signed the contract. $30K isn't pocket change.
She knowingly put money down and signed the contract. $30K isn't pocket change.
02-08-2008, 10:37 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Sly Raskal
regardless of if she was on disability or not. If you are only getting 2500K a month, what the fuck are you doing in a BMW dealership. You should be in a Honda, Kia, Hyundai or Saturn or simliar dealership.
Yet another example of many American's stance that "it's the other guys fault, not mine".
Yet another example of many American's stance that "it's the other guys fault, not mine".
and She might sue that dealer for "tricking" her.
02-08-2008, 10:42 AM
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^^^ After thinking about it, she could technically afford a nicer car since she had 30K to put down, hell she could afford a lower model Audi or BMW, even a C class with very few or no options.
But the point still stands, you have x amount of dollars, you need y dollars to survive, if that gets too close to a point where you aren't making it, YOU screwed up. Nobody told you to go buy that item.
But the point still stands, you have x amount of dollars, you need y dollars to survive, if that gets too close to a point where you aren't making it, YOU screwed up. Nobody told you to go buy that item.
02-08-2008, 10:45 AM
#14
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Originally Posted by NSXNEXT
When The Fuck Will People Start Taking Responsibility For Their Actions?
Jfc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jfc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It keeps getting worse and worse.
02-08-2008, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by GIBSON6594
Assuming she is middle-aged, if you're retirement savings are only 30K, this lease isn't the only problem you have.
Is disability income taxed?
Is disability income taxed?
They key isn't retirement savings are, it's retirement savings were. If she was stupid enough to cash out a 401K, she deserves whatever she gets.
02-08-2008, 11:08 AM
#17
Many people will never be responsible for their actions and this is why our economy is circling the bowl. We need strict lending laws that can prevent things like this from happening.
The new hotness now is if you can't afford your house payments on your 500k$ house, go buy a 300k$ house and after settlement, walk away from your loan on the 500k$ house. You get three years with a bad credit rating at most, and you still get to live in a decent home. Guess who pays for all this? In the end, we all do.
This country is infected with stupidity.
The new hotness now is if you can't afford your house payments on your 500k$ house, go buy a 300k$ house and after settlement, walk away from your loan on the 500k$ house. You get three years with a bad credit rating at most, and you still get to live in a decent home. Guess who pays for all this? In the end, we all do.
This country is infected with stupidity.
02-08-2008, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by zeroday
Many people will never be responsible for their actions and this is why our economy is circling the bowl. We need strict lending laws that can prevent things like this from happening.
The new hotness now is if you can't afford your house payments on your 500k$ house, go buy a 300k$ house and after settlement, walk away from your loan on the 500k$ house. You get three years with a bad credit rating at most, and you still get to live in a decent home. Guess who pays for all this? In the end, we all do.
This country is infected with stupidity.
The new hotness now is if you can't afford your house payments on your 500k$ house, go buy a 300k$ house and after settlement, walk away from your loan on the 500k$ house. You get three years with a bad credit rating at most, and you still get to live in a decent home. Guess who pays for all this? In the end, we all do.
This country is infected with stupidity.
02-08-2008, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by NSXNEXT
They key isn't retirement savings are, it's retirement savings were. If she was stupid enough to cash out a 401K, she deserves whatever she gets.
02-08-2008, 11:25 AM
#20
The sizzle in the Steak
Take the M6 and drive it over her. Problem solved.
02-08-2008, 12:12 PM
#25
Time to Climb
in my previous job, arnold palmer cadillac sales consultant, you'd have people WALKING to the dealership and wanting to buy a $65k escalade. this lady's story doesn't surprise me, nevermind how stooooopid it is
02-08-2008, 12:16 PM
#26
Fahrvergnügen'd
Had the dealer not committed fraud, I think she would never have gotten the lease. Regardless she knowingly committed fraud.
My justice would be that she's let out of the lease and give her $30k. Then she goes to jail for some period of time. The salesman goes to jail. The Finance officer at the dealership goes to jail. The dealership owner is fined. BMW of NA is fined.
Life goes on.
My justice would be that she's let out of the lease and give her $30k. Then she goes to jail for some period of time. The salesman goes to jail. The Finance officer at the dealership goes to jail. The dealership owner is fined. BMW of NA is fined.
Life goes on.
02-08-2008, 12:29 PM
#28
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by NSXNEXT
When The Fuck Will People Start Taking Responsibility For Their Actions?
02-08-2008, 12:53 PM
#31
Originally Posted by charliemike
Had the dealer not committed fraud, I think she would never have gotten the lease. Regardless she knowingly committed fraud.
My justice would be that she's let out of the lease and give her $30k. Then she goes to jail for some period of time. The salesman goes to jail. The Finance officer at the dealership goes to jail. The dealership owner is fined. BMW of NA is fined.
Life goes on.
My justice would be that she's let out of the lease and give her $30k. Then she goes to jail for some period of time. The salesman goes to jail. The Finance officer at the dealership goes to jail. The dealership owner is fined. BMW of NA is fined.
Life goes on.
It doesn't matter that the dealership offered her the deal. There are many things in life that try to allure and seduce you into buying or doing things. It's YOUR responsibility as an adult to say no.
She didn't say no. Instead, she paid out the ass to get this car and now she should pay for her own actions. SHE had the chance to say no, thank you. She was blinded by the attraction to the car, an impulse buy. Nobody else is responsible but herself. Get real, dude.
02-08-2008, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
No way, dude. I don't want tax money wasted on jailing these idiots. And why should anybody give her the money back? She and she alone should know her own financial situation the best.
It doesn't matter that the dealership offered her the deal. There are many things in life that try to allure and seduce you into buying or doing things. It's YOUR responsibility as an adult to say no.
She didn't say no. Instead, she paid out the ass to get this car and now she should pay for her own actions. SHE had the chance to say no, thank you. She was blinded by the attraction to the car, an impulse buy. Nobody else is responsible but herself. Get real, dude.
It doesn't matter that the dealership offered her the deal. There are many things in life that try to allure and seduce you into buying or doing things. It's YOUR responsibility as an adult to say no.
She didn't say no. Instead, she paid out the ass to get this car and now she should pay for her own actions. SHE had the chance to say no, thank you. She was blinded by the attraction to the car, an impulse buy. Nobody else is responsible but herself. Get real, dude.
Exact same situation we're experiencing in the housing market. And look at what the government is doing.
02-08-2008, 01:53 PM
#33
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It's all about handouts. How about a handout for me because I'm responsible and pay my own way? At least that makes sense...give the money to someone who demonstrates they can do something productive with it. The upcoming tax refund ($600) will be buying a lot of new TV's and rims.
02-08-2008, 01:58 PM
#34
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
No way, dude. I don't want tax money wasted on jailing these idiots. And why should anybody give her the money back? She and she alone should know her own financial situation the best.
It doesn't matter that the dealership offered her the deal. There are many things in life that try to allure and seduce you into buying or doing things. It's YOUR responsibility as an adult to say no.
She didn't say no. Instead, she paid out the ass to get this car and now she should pay for her own actions. SHE had the chance to say no, thank you. She was blinded by the attraction to the car, an impulse buy. Nobody else is responsible but herself. Get real, dude.
It doesn't matter that the dealership offered her the deal. There are many things in life that try to allure and seduce you into buying or doing things. It's YOUR responsibility as an adult to say no.
She didn't say no. Instead, she paid out the ass to get this car and now she should pay for her own actions. SHE had the chance to say no, thank you. She was blinded by the attraction to the car, an impulse buy. Nobody else is responsible but herself. Get real, dude.
That's my only point. I think she's a fucking moron.
02-08-2008, 02:03 PM
#35
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by NSXNEXT
Exact same situation we're experiencing in the housing market. And look at what the government is doing.
In my opinion the only financial injury is the incredibly meager (if any) downpayments some people paid on bullshit mortgages.
Since most of these were stated $0-down loans, I'm not really feeling too sorry for anyone most of the time. Every once in a while I feel contempt for an industry that preys on the stupidity/gullibility/ignorance of its customers but I think even Forrest Gump would understand the concept that "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" and how that feels as an emotion.
02-08-2008, 02:03 PM
#36
If that's $2500/mo AFTER taxes then it's closer to $40k/yr than $30k.
Anyway...the only people who should be looking at cars that expensive are the ones making like $250k/yr with very little other debt.
Anyway...the only people who should be looking at cars that expensive are the ones making like $250k/yr with very little other debt.
02-08-2008, 02:05 PM
#37
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by Brandon24pdx
If that's $2500/mo AFTER taxes then it's closer to $40k/yr than $30k.
Anyway...the only people who should be looking at cars that expensive are the ones making like $250k/yr with very little other debt.
Anyway...the only people who should be looking at cars that expensive are the ones making like $250k/yr with very little other debt.
02-08-2008, 02:54 PM
#38
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
Originally Posted by charliemike
I'd argue that buying a car with a sales price that is 40% of your gross income still isn't a very wise decision.
Not to mention if it was a 3 year lease she was paying $76,800 for a car, plus insurance, gas, etc...
02-08-2008, 02:58 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Sly Raskal
regardless of if she was on disability or not. If you are only getting 2500K a month, what the fuck are you doing in a BMW dealership. You should be in a Honda, Kia, Hyundai or Saturn or simliar dealership.
Yet another example of many American's stance that "it's the other guys fault, not mine".
Yet another example of many American's stance that "it's the other guys fault, not mine".
02-08-2008, 03:10 PM
#40
Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
It doesn't matter that the dealership offered her the deal. There are many things in life that try to allure and seduce you into buying or doing things. It's YOUR responsibility as an adult to say no.
She didn't say no. Instead, she paid out the ass to get this car and now she should pay for her own actions. SHE had the chance to say no, thank you. She was blinded by the attraction to the car, an impulse buy. Nobody else is responsible but herself. Get real, dude.
She didn't say no. Instead, she paid out the ass to get this car and now she should pay for her own actions. SHE had the chance to say no, thank you. She was blinded by the attraction to the car, an impulse buy. Nobody else is responsible but herself. Get real, dude.
She had plenty of time to change her mind and walk away from that deal. I guess she didn't do the math herself and didn't think clearly.It's fine to look at the cars in person and all, but when it comes to signing a contract, it is a SERIOUS matter UNLESS you have money to burn.
