So right now I am driving an 07 S2000 and an 07 TL-S 6spd

Taking both cars on twisty country back roads made me think of the question in the subject line.

Can I turn the TL-S into a tossable car (similar to the S2000)? What kind of modifications and $$$$ will it take?

Am I better off buying something like a civic SI to get that "tossable" feeling? What other used cars with a back seat (sedan or coupe) that will give you this?

Please discuss

 

A lightweight sportscar.

S2K/Miata/BRZ/etc.

There are a lot of factors involved in it.

Making your TL-S "tossable" is possible but will require some major $$$$. What's the point of it, you know?

 

you're comparing a 2750lb car to a 3500lb car.....

which one seems more "tossable" to you?

 

Salad tossing?

 

Weight and distribution of said weight. Go drive a Lotus Elise, a Porsche Boxster/Cayman, or a Toyota MR2, they're all light and the majority of the weight between the front and rear wheels. You can make your TL handle better but you can't make it into a real sports car.

 

To me the steering makes it tossable

We have had in past :
na, msm, nc2 miata
Ap1 s2000
1993 mr2 turbo

Currently Elise and 07 rio yellow s2000

For me in addition to lightness steering feel is most imp

My Elise makes my stook feel like a Camry
My stook makes my tsx wagon feel like an Avalon

It's all relative to your personal preferences

I have friends who think a gtr is tossable and others who think Elise is horrible grandpa car now that they own an atom

 

Whenever I drive my wife's A4 Avant, it puts me into sleep. It feels so numb and indirect compared to my car. My BRZ has spoiled me.

Our Avant has the sports package too. It's about an inch lower than the non-sport model and has firmer dampers I believe.

 

/thread.

Driving an S2000 compared to the TL-S should be a physics lesson in itself.

If the weight is low & the chassis is rigid, you will have a toss-able car.

 

You should have come to our lake Elizabeth run last weekend
A gt3rs owner picked up and brought his new Morgan 3 wheeler

 

That's awesome....

Where do you guys usually plan that out? on facebook?

 

All of us are too old to have Facebook

Just via email

3 911
2 m3
Morgan
2 atoms
2 Elise
1 exige

We do 6 am -9am. Home by 9:30 am , once a month

2 of these guys run the lotuscup with me . Rest does jacks track day at bwr

All white. I am the colored one. You can be 2nd colored one

 

PMing you my email addy. lol

 

I came for the tossing, I heard if you put jelly on first it isn't nearly as bad. Anyone confirm, JdmJon?

 

Jons too busy to respond these days , he's busy getting his salad tossed by vossen crew

 

Hmm 60/40 (if lucky) FWD at 3600 pounds

vs. 50/50 RWD, limited slip, low roll center and 2850 pounds

 

Ahh, Saintor?

 

maybe try make s2000 more tossable ?

 

with ranch?

 

at poor JDMjon

 

you can make your TL go faster, turn faster and with faster lap time, but it does not mean it will have the tossable feeling you get from a proper light weight sports car that was built for that tossable purpose.

 

Found your answer, OP.

 

Surprisingly very few intelligent answers to my question!!!!

I was not comparing both cars at all, nor implying that both should handle the same way either!!!!

The point of my question was "if the type S is modified, can it feel close to the nimbleness of the S2000?" what will it take? how much $$$$ wise?

why do that to the Type S you may ask? because it will still be a more reliable car vs an E36 M3 (3150 LBS) or an E46 M3 (3450 LBS) or any subaru STI (3200 LBS), etc.......

 

^you're still trying to compare the TL with the S2000....

unless you can strip away the pounds, the TL wont ever feel as nimble as the S2k.

however; you can do some modifications to help the TL corner better, but it wont EVER be as nimble as the s2k unless you strip it.

you can lower it to help lower the center of gravity and reduce body roll.
(still wont make it as nimble as s2k)

you can add a larger rear sway bar to reduce body roll and to upset the natural understeer of the car
(still wont make it as nimble as s2k)

you can purchase sticky fat tires
(still wont make it as nimble as s2k)

 

in conclusion, you will never be able to make the TL as nimble as the S2k unless you remove close to 800-1000 pounds.

 

I think if you debadge your TL and put an s2000 badge on it, it'll make the TL more tossable

 

 

OP,

Your original question was how to make your TL tossable (similar to s2000). That itself is a comparison. There is nothing wrong with it, you need to have a benchmark otherwise how can you tell the difference.

But the answer is the tossable feeing you get from S2000, Miata and other proper RWD light weight 50/50 weight distribution cars is what the cars were built for.

Now you want to make your TL, which is completely different type of cars to have similar nimble tossable feeing is possible but it will probably cost what the car is worth and once it is done, it will not be daily driver or reliable.

But if you still insist:

You need to somehow to reduce about 800lbs
You need to somehow reconfigure your weight distribution to 50/50 (while keeping the weight down)
Retune your suspension
Retune your steering
Retune your drivetrain because it takes some magic to make FWD feeling like a RWD car.
Might have to adjust your wheelbase
Stiff up your chassis
lower the center gravity and seating positions

After all that, you will need to buy a new car to drive because the TL is no longer street legal.

 

You won't get many intelligent answers because your question is not an intelligent one.

 

Seriously, you stated you weren't comparing the two, then you follow up with "if the type S is modified, can it feel close to the nimbleness of the S2000?" .

The TLS will never be in the same ballpark as an M3 or STI. You can do suspension and sways and whatever else, but it's just not engineered that way. Doing the suspension mods will make it handle better than stock... but it will not put it in the big leagues...

 

Troll thread is obvious?

 

I gave him the benefit of the doubt since he joined in 2007, 41 years old with NSX in his screen name?

 

Well, as others have said, it will never be as tossable as a purpose built lightweight RWD 50/50 sports car like an s2000 without turning it into a non-street legal track car, but to make it more tossable than stock, just do the basics (1) reduce weight and (2) coil over suspension set stiffer and lower height vs factory + a stiffer rear sway bar.

The more weight you take off the car the more "tossable" it will feel within its limits, just don't forget that it's still a 4 door FWD sedan at the end of the day

You can def look at other cars. A coupe should be a better start, since it's usually lighter weight vs a 4 door, and can also have a stronger chassis. This comes at the cost of rear passenger's easibility to get in and out of the car. A civic vs a TL is apples to oranges. Ask yourself what kind of car do you want at the end of the day? A lightweight small low amenities type car with 2 doors or something mid size heavier and more loaded entry-luxury sedan?

 

i think for FWD cars, Mini Cooper is about as tossable as it gets.

 

I will refrain from answering that

I think you got the point

 

Thank you

 

I guess I was trying to see if I can combine both in one car (relatively speaking) - a daily driver with amenities that you could enjoy at the track (5-6 times per year) - also a car that would still be reliable after beating on.

I don't want to take the S2000 to the track yet.

I started driving courses this year and will do all the BMW driver training courses next month, so that I can know the basics before tracking my car

Thanks for your input

 

I believe my question was intelligent

Being on this forum for a long time, I read some posts a while back on members who tracked their TL's and truly enjoyed it

I even remember some who completely eliminated the "heavy feel" doing some specific suspension modifications - they also eliminated under-steer completely and introduced just enough over-steer to make the car more fun.

I just don't have time to find these posts

Is that intelligent enough for you?

 

Move thread to 3G TL suspension..

Honestly.. any sedan will feel like a boat compared to a s2k. The 3G TL, especially the Type-S, has great feel and response on the track. It can be improved, but what's the point for 5-6 times a year. Get your fix with the s2k.

 

I think the problem might be somewhere between the steering wheel and the driver's seat.

Although, Keiichi Tsuchiya is the best tosser around.

 

AKA how to drive like a douchebag 101.

from all BMW drivers.