That makes 80% of parents apparently. Any other pie in the sky ideas?

Yeah, sorry. I think real-world solutions beat "this would totally work if only..." solutions. Given the same effectiveness the cheaper solution is better.


I think we have enough info here to demand some factual answers and some real testing of car seat effectiveness, as well as to push car makers to design rear seats to fit kids without expensive add-ons. It's very telling that crash testing companies are actually scared to perform such tests. This has all the markings of an ineffective product.

 

I rolled my car 3 times with my daughter in her car seat in the back seat and she came out without a scratch. The car seat didn't move.

 

I'd say that's a pretty effective test.

 

The car seat is more effective for non-serious crashes, based on Levitt's 2006 report (without even accounting for proper v. improper installations?!), so is there a cheaper solution that is as effective as a car seat?

 

No one disputes that the car seats work. What's in questions is whether they work so much better than seat belts that it's worth legislating them instead. If one person rolled their car with a kid in seat belts, and the kid was fine, that would prove to you that seat belts are just fine? That would be an "effective test"?

 

Pissing in the wind > this thread.

Seriously now....if you want to fight the man....put your kid in a seatbelt...ditch the carseat.....take the risk....pay the fines.

It's all a big conspiracy by the big oil.....errrr....car seat mfg. in China to sell their cheap car seat goods to stupid North Americans who don't know any better.....the kids were safer rolling around in the back cargo are of the Gran Torino Station Wagon back in the day

 

Seriously. I'm all for less government intrusion into our daily lives, but that pretty much stops when it comes to kids. Legislation or not, my kids go in car seats. It doesn't take much common sense to realize that it's safer. Do I need independant studies and 300 years of results to come to this conclusion? No. I know it by seeing how my seat belt stays in a constant locked state with a heavier mass in the seat, with the kid strapped into said contrapment with a 5-point harness. Kid in regular seat belt = kid moves around even when normal situations. From personal experience, the braking mechanism of a seat belt isn't adjusted for a 32lb kid. Kid in car seat w/ 5-point = doesn't move if you don't want them to.

This whole argument is rather silly.

If you want to see the damage done by kids being improperly seated in a car, car seat or not, visit your local peds ED. That's where my wife works. That's my empirical data.

 

... and this is why we don't have reliable data on the topic. It's gotta work because if feels good to spend more money on my kid's safety.

I want to know what actually results in fewer fatalities, and what solutions should be further developed. What car manufacturer is going to develop seat belts that are better suited to kids, when the government forces people to buy contraptions anyway?

Yeah, we are pissing in the wind because it's THE LAW, thanks in large part to people who think strapping a kid in a car seat is as effective as strapping yourself in a racing seat.

 

Is this the same line of reasoning we had when air bags, collapsible steering shafts, and tensioning seat belts were introduced? Because it's mandated by the government, it's bad?

 

Never mind...

 

Who is this "we" you keep talking about. YOU. You have enough .... .

Pissing in the wind is making a stink on an Acura car enthusiasts forum.

Want to make a difference, then GO make a difference. The halls of justice are in your home town. Make a visit. Write a letter. Convince THEM, not us.

Making a broohaha over this HERE is pissing in the wind.

 

That's pretty much what I think of this whole idea.

 

Yeah, because the typical AZine thread actually makes a difference in the community, as opposed to simply existing to entertain a few people...



Thanks for the tip.

 

 

What are you still doing here?

This thread is pointless, the topic not worth discussing... why waste your time?

 

I'll accept any arguments that aren't flawed. Like for example in your last reply you see to say that I question car seats in this particular usage because they are government mandated. That's not at all what I said.

I didn't say "it's not useful because it's government-mandated". I said "being government-mandated doesn't make it useful".

 

I was bored.

 

Unfortunately, with people and corporations, unless there is a rule against something, you know people are going to do it as much as possible.

No seat belt law? Tons of people don't wear their seat belts. I do believe that there is enough info out there to make this one of the good enforcement laws.

Now, car seats are still in their infancy (no pun) compared to the advent of the automobile. Hell, I remember being little and riding in a regular seat belt. I remember how much freedom I had in the seat belt, something which is still the case today (put yours in a regular seat and see how much play there is). I could slam on the brakes and have the seat belts lock up for myself and my wife, but not for my kids if they were in regular belts.

There are people out there who are too stupid for their own good, and I'm sorry, but I don't believe Darwin should apply to innocent kids for the failures of their parents...you know, the ones who put their kids in a cardboard box on top of their car on the freeway to hold it down.

 

I'm totally in agreement with that except for the fact that collision stats seem to show that seats belts are just as effective.

But you already know that...

 

My own personal experience tells me otherwise.

 

I have 3 kids. 5, almost 3, and a 1 year old. Texas just passed a law that kids have to be an booster seat up to 8 years old!

What I hate about this is that for my family of 5 to go anywhere we have to take my wife's SUV with 3 rows of seats. I thought this would change once my oldest is 6 because she wouldn't have to be in a seat anymore, but now according to law we have to wait another 2 years (honestly doubt that we will).

A big reason for my vasectomy was because I ran out of space in the car!

 

Why are we still laboring over this issue?

Car seats may only provide a minimal decrease in injury or death from a car related incident, but that's still enough to warrant a law mandating the use of car seats.

If the kid is safer in the car seat than a seat belt even if its marginally so, a law mandating the use of car seats for children is valid.

 

What's the matter, belze? Can't find anymore reasons to stick up for Obama?

 

You can't contain your Obama hate to the R&P section, it's spilling over into the Car forum?

 

Still using the standard deflection tactic, I see.

I just thought it was funny that you are subjecting Car Talk to your obfuscatory modus operandi.