Truck vs. SUV = OMG
02-28-2012, 06:21 PM
#81
Banned
Why people do drive in winter without proper winter tires is beyond me.
We have a law here about it.
Now there is a law about ESP too.
02-28-2012, 06:22 PM
#82
02-28-2012, 06:23 PM
#83
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Source: Saintor
02-28-2012, 06:35 PM
#84
Banned
Fact: all major car makers embraced it and all statistics support massively that it works. A breakthrough, that is.
This is as good of a game-changer as it gets.
If you go straight and stomp it on a wet surface, you will continue to go straight with ESP/TC. NO initial excessive swerving like in the video. When there is no ESP/TC, many many many more fatal accidents like this one happen.
But as I said above, it seems that not all people have the ability *to get it*.
This is as good of a game-changer as it gets.
If you go straight and stomp it on a wet surface, you will continue to go straight with ESP/TC. NO initial excessive swerving like in the video. When there is no ESP/TC, many many many more fatal accidents like this one happen.
But as I said above, it seems that not all people have the ability *to get it*.
02-28-2012, 06:38 PM
#85
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
02-28-2012, 06:43 PM
#86
Fact: all major car makers embraced it and all statistics support massively that it works. A breakthrough, that is.
This is as good of a game-changer as it gets.
If you go straight and stomp it on a wet surface, you will continue to go straight with ESP/TC. NO excessive swerving like in the video. When there is no ESP/TC, many many many more fatal accidents like this one happen.
But as I said above, it seems that not all people have the ability *to get it*.
This is as good of a game-changer as it gets.
If you go straight and stomp it on a wet surface, you will continue to go straight with ESP/TC. NO excessive swerving like in the video. When there is no ESP/TC, many many many more fatal accidents like this one happen.
But as I said above, it seems that not all people have the ability *to get it*.
Yes, it does work. No one here is denying that. What people are refuting, and I'm one of them, is that ESP is a magical solution that solves all driver errors and masks all road conditions. It does not. The driver, equipment, and vehicle aids all play a part in reducing traffic accidents and fatalities. In this particular instance it's impossible to say what would have saved the driver. It was probably a combination of many things that led to his death, none of which any of us can answer with 100% certainty.
02-28-2012, 06:43 PM
#87
The sizzle in the Steak
How about 95% of them? It will prevent the worst most of the time, and twice on Sundays.
Link?
02-28-2012, 06:47 PM
#88
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Damn, I'm learning something new today.
ESP, check.
Thanks, Saintor.
ESP, check.
Thanks, Saintor.
02-28-2012, 06:48 PM
#89
Banned
all driver errors and masks all road conditions
Most. M-O-S-T. Specially ones like in the video with no second party and a straight line.
02-28-2012, 06:56 PM
#90
Race Director
iTrader: (7)
traction/stability control is not a save-all
take my old 2G TL for example: we were hit with a good amount of rain a couple of years ago, at the time, my tires were not perfect, but had decent thread. I was doing a good 40 in a 65 due to the conditions and the standing water.
was the car stable? no.
was i somewhat shitting bricks? yes.
i was about to put all of my confidence in the driver aids? no.
during most of that drive, the /!\ light was flashing.
as i recall, there have been quite a few members on the board that have gotten in accidents in less than ideal conditions. did they expect the driver aids to save them from spinning? probably not. shit happens. get on with it.
take my old 2G TL for example: we were hit with a good amount of rain a couple of years ago, at the time, my tires were not perfect, but had decent thread. I was doing a good 40 in a 65 due to the conditions and the standing water.
was the car stable? no.
was i somewhat shitting bricks? yes.
i was about to put all of my confidence in the driver aids? no.
during most of that drive, the /!\ light was flashing.
as i recall, there have been quite a few members on the board that have gotten in accidents in less than ideal conditions. did they expect the driver aids to save them from spinning? probably not. shit happens. get on with it.
02-28-2012, 06:58 PM
#91
Race Director
iTrader: (7)
would you expect driver aids to do anything here? no.
look at the conditions
http://jalopnik.com/5878390/snow-tur...nto-morons-too
look at the conditions
http://jalopnik.com/5878390/snow-tur...nto-morons-too
02-28-2012, 07:06 PM
#92
Moderator
Fact: all major car makers embraced it and all statistics support massively that it works. A breakthrough, that is.
This is as good of a game-changer as it gets.
If you go straight and stomp it on a wet surface, you will continue to go straight with ESP/TC. NO initial excessive swerving like in the video. When there is no ESP/TC, many many many more fatal accidents like this one happen.
But as I said above, it seems that not all people have the ability *to get it*.
This is as good of a game-changer as it gets.
If you go straight and stomp it on a wet surface, you will continue to go straight with ESP/TC. NO initial excessive swerving like in the video. When there is no ESP/TC, many many many more fatal accidents like this one happen.
But as I said above, it seems that not all people have the ability *to get it*.
02-28-2012, 07:32 PM
#93
Ultra Negro
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Well honestly we do not know how many variables there are in this situation, for instance, what type of tires did he have? Were they inflated to the proper pressure? Did he accidentally shift into a lower gear? Did a tire go flat causing the sudden loss of traction?
I am sorry but stability control was not going to help that guy he went into snap oversteer in snowed conditions, physics took over and physics won. So obviously you can see he had limited traction as is.
I am sorry but stability control was not going to help that guy he went into snap oversteer in snowed conditions, physics took over and physics won. So obviously you can see he had limited traction as is.
02-28-2012, 07:59 PM
#94
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Saintor > Physics in Saintor's book.
02-29-2012, 12:45 AM
#95
S E L L
I agree. I also think proper tires are the most important things you can have on a vehicle for winter use.
My 2011 F150 has four wheel drive, traction control, roll stability control, low tire pressure warning, and trailer sway control. A few months ago I drove it for the first time in the snow. It did not perform as expected. The electronic aids certainly helped, but being a vehicle with a high center of gravity it was clearly uncomfortable. Within a week I had changed it's tires to a set of Blizzaks mounted on steel wheels. The difference in performance was staggering. The vehicle responded as it was designed to and was much safer. And although the electronic aids worked well, they still weren't completely perfect in all situations. I think anyone with any common sense wouldn't expect them to be.
My 2011 F150 has four wheel drive, traction control, roll stability control, low tire pressure warning, and trailer sway control. A few months ago I drove it for the first time in the snow. It did not perform as expected. The electronic aids certainly helped, but being a vehicle with a high center of gravity it was clearly uncomfortable. Within a week I had changed it's tires to a set of Blizzaks mounted on steel wheels. The difference in performance was staggering. The vehicle responded as it was designed to and was much safer. And although the electronic aids worked well, they still weren't completely perfect in all situations. I think anyone with any common sense wouldn't expect them to be.
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02-29-2012, 07:00 AM
#97
Originally Posted by IIHS by Saintor
Electronic stability control could prevent nearly one-third of all fatal crashes and reduce rollover risk by as much as 80%; effect is found on single- and multiple-vehicle crashes
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mrmako (03-04-2012)
02-29-2012, 07:44 AM
#98
Senior Moderator
Its a much smaller percentage. Ive seen 2 accidents where ESP didnt save the driver/car from getting into an accident. Its not a save all, infact it caused one because the driver was under the impression that it didnt matter how he was driving because his AID would save him.
02-29-2012, 07:17 PM
#99
Banned
We are not talking about all accidents, but this kind of accidents where the lost of control by driver on a straight line and no second party is the cause of accident.
02-29-2012, 07:51 PM
#101
8th Gear
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There's no doubt ESP and TC is helpful but surely there are examples where a vehicle even with ESP is not enough to overcome the laws of physics. The bottom line is not relying on technology to save one's butt but common sense when driving in less than ideal conditions.
02-29-2012, 07:53 PM
#102
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Saintor, I wish you would have that magical ESP on your brain because I don't think you can ever think straight.
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02-29-2012, 07:56 PM
#104
Banned
02-29-2012, 09:12 PM
#105
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
What does it take to ban a guy here?
02-29-2012, 09:30 PM
#107
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Its borderline in my mind.
02-29-2012, 09:34 PM
#108
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
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02-29-2012, 10:16 PM
#109
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
03-01-2012, 07:14 AM
#111
You can't be serious. Again, from YOUR post and the link YOU posted. They are clearly talking about ALL fatal accidents (which this one was)...
Originally Posted by IIHS by Saintor
Electronic stability control could prevent nearly one-third of all fatal crashes and reduce rollover risk by as much as 80%; effect is found on single- and multiple-vehicle crashes
... right back at you. I won't bother posting an obnoxiously large photo to prove my point... your posts are doing that work for me...
03-02-2012, 02:58 AM
#113
How did I miss out on this?!
Terrible accident...
. However Saintor just makes it worse. Had that guy on my ignore list for as long as I can remember, thanks for reminding me why.
just wait until you guys see his rants on how BMW > *
Terrible accident...
. However Saintor just makes it worse. Had that guy on my ignore list for as long as I can remember, thanks for reminding me why.just wait until you guys see his rants on how BMW > *
03-02-2012, 09:07 AM
#115
Check what ESP will do for you (combined with TC); exactly preventing the kind of excessive slippage we saw in this accident. It will also do something that no driver can; controlling the brakes of an individual corner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiZjeeMExY4
Even better at high speed of 70mph (toward the end of the video).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3m24...feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiZjeeMExY4
Even better at high speed of 70mph (toward the end of the video).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3m24...feature=fvwrel
03-02-2012, 04:52 PM
#116
Banned
You can't be serious. Again, from YOUR post and the link YOU posted. They are clearly talking about ALL fatal accidents (which this one was)...So...
... right back at you. I won't bother posting an obnoxiously large photo to prove my point... your posts are doing that work for me...When I assume some people have the minimal skills to understand something easy, I am always puzzled by the actual low capacity of analysis they really have. You are NOT making sense.
03-02-2012, 04:54 PM
#117
Moderator
You are referring to the right data in my links and despite this, you want to suggest that I used them to support the 95% I wrote for a particular condition?
When I assume some people have the minimal skills to understand something easy, I am always puzzled by the actual low capacity of analysis they really have. You are NOT making sense.
When I assume some people have the minimal skills to understand something easy, I am always puzzled by the actual low capacity of analysis they really have. You are NOT making sense.
03-02-2012, 05:04 PM
#119
I think Saintor and SSFTSX would get along just fine.
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civicdrivr (03-02-2012)
03-02-2012, 05:06 PM
#120
Hello, anyone moderating? Tired of moronic poster wasting my time.
shamelessly stolen fron somebody's sig
shamelessly stolen fron somebody's sig
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civicdrivr (03-02-2012)