gavriil

quote:
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Originally posted by Tom2:
gavriil,
You remind me of one of those guys that studies the books until no end and then tells everyone what SHOULD happen in any and all circumstances, without any real world experience.

Some of what you say is correct. Most of the stuff about the gearing is correct (but not all), the FWD vs RWD weight transfer stuff, the curb weight issues.......

With all your book knowledge, I'm SHOCKED that you didn't mention TORQUE. Forget all the sissy horsepower ratings, because torque is what it's all about when you're talking acceleration/drag racing. Maybe you should start comparing torque curves when you talk about engines.


A lot of readers here know all this stuff, but the truth of the matter is that it simply does not matter. Line two cars up and see which is faster. That's the bottom line.

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And gavriil is responding:

And you remind me of one of those rednecks that all they have learned in their mechanical life, in the farm garage, is that there is not replacement for displacement.

Go chill Tom and do not think that anyone approaching a matter academicaly is wrong. I, and most people here, do not have time to go to the track like you. I have a life and a job which requires a lot of travel among other things. I will let the car mags to do the tests for me and the people here in the forums. You said it. They put a lot of extra weight and they dont launch the cars hard and that is why you are beating their time at the track. So? If they are doing the same to all cars then figures are consistent and that is what matters. We get the idea. We dont have to go to the track to prove mags wrong. We said it 1000000 times, there are too many variables. End of fricking story. Even 2 M3s are not the same...we know...we know. So let me keep reading the theory which is the hard thing to do and I will let the practice be done by other reliable sources.

If you have not been to the track, you cant talk cars according to Tom. What kind of shit is this?

You know, the guys that are working for F1 teams are, above all, academically UP THERE my friend. They do a lot of practical track testing but in order to make that engine turn 20,000 rpms there was a TON of computer simulation done. Theory goes first, then it is applied to practice and both make the difference. That is how it is with all professions and accross all industries. You do not have to tell me. I am out there too.

When car A has shorter gearing than car B and they both are the same cars, car A will win a fixed distance race, period. I dont need to go to your stupid track to prove that. Grow up. And I know I was comparing two differenct cars but that is not the point. The fact that I do not have to go to the track to prove that is the point.

ANYTHING ANYONES SAYS HERE THAT IN TOM'S EYES LESSENS HIS BRIDE E36 M3 SOMEHOW IS BULLSHIT UNLESS PROVEN AT THE TRACK. What a bunch of crap.

What kind of car do you think you are driving? An F50? Wake up and face reality. I think that you are the biggest mag racer of all, because I bet your head got too big from reading that article on C$D years ago, that announced the E36 M3 as the best handling car over $40K. I bet that helped your ego. I know you know the article I am talking about. You probably have it on the wall, framed.

Now as far as the torque comments you made. Tom wrote:

"Forget all the sissy horsepower ratings, because torque is what it's all about when you're talking acceleration/drag racing."

Before I prove you 101% wrong let me say that you have a disadvantage on this debate cos remember this is gavriil's terrotory...it is called "talking books". Wow...

IN ANY TYPE OF RAW ACCELERATION/DRAG RACING EVENT, HORSEPOWER IS WHAT WINS ALL ELSE EQUAL.

I dont care if your train makes one million lb-ft of torque at 1000 rpm. If you make 200 HP and I make 300 HP, I will win no matter how much less torque I make.

This is such a basic mistake that I dont even have to try. This is humiliating the more I think about it. You, TOM, the NON mag racer...the one that goes to the track with your mistress... the M3...to prove books wrong, does not know basic matters of engineering? Actually this is physics. Not even mechanics.

I cannot believe you are making me come down to this low point to have to explain this to you but you made this huge mistake so clearly that I am gonna have to. Here...it is simple even for people that denounce theory and their god is the track (like you...oh, the track and their M3 I forgot):

HP = (Torque*rpm)/5252

Even guys that believe in distributors instead of injection know this.

Can you see from that above formula why you are completely wrong? Let me take you by the hand...

Since Torque is multiplied by the rpm that torque figure is appearing at, it is NOT fixed. It is increasing as the RPM increases. Since the denominator is fixed then what makes the difference is that rpm number. The more you increase RPM the more HP you make...simple shit. Now let us keep Torque constant. Simply the more you raise RPM the more HP you make. HP = Power = Watts = WORK! The more work an engine can do the faster your little M3 will go. Wake up.

If an engine is making 200 lb-ft of torque at 4000 rpm, it is simply making 152HP at that point ONLY. If an engine is making 150 pounds of torque at 8000 rpm it is making 228 HP. The latter engine will push a car or anything else further, faster. Got it?

Why did you even say that? Where you trying to prove that because the E36 M3 makes a little more torque than the CLS, it should win or some completely wrong shit like that?

Bottom line...sometimes you say some things that are correct as long as the term M3 is not involved in the thread/convo. If it is, you are just the fricking KING of the thread and go so far to say completely inacurate statements and embarass yourself even to people that do not go to the track....us the poor mortals. Give me a freaking break...

I almost told Eclipse23 "Amen" to the couple of statements he made that were strong against your attitude about this M3 hot topic/button you got but I thought let's wait a little but you are getting worse and worse. Grow up and open some books you might learn something. Even mags will help your case, trust me. Non-mag, race boy.

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Gabriel
CL Type S

[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 04-25-2001).]

deadlyCL-S

can someone that isnt lazy please read this all and sum it up in 3 sentences or less?

I'l check this thread again in 5 minutes to see what this is all about, Thanks.

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Acura 2001 CL Type S, (black on black)
Acura 1996 CL (bronze on stove)

Shawn S

THIS
IS
BULLSHIT

deadlyCL-S

thankyou sir.

can i get an appropriate smiley face with that please?
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Acura 2001 CL Type S, (black on black)
Acura 1996 CL (bronze on stove)

[This message has been edited by deadlyCL-S (edited 04-25-2001).]

defrag

"some of us dont have time to go to the track"

well where did you find time to write that fuckin Novel of a post. Good lord. In the time you wasted writing that useless post you coulda made 3 passes by now

-defrag

Shawn S

Is this close enough ???





Shawn S

gavriil

i am fast typer. Is that good enough?


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Gabriel
CL Type S

EricL

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Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines ordered
• Comptech headers & sways ready
• Silver AEM CAI ready
• 8 coats of Zaino magic

deadlyCL-S

you have never let me down before shawn

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-------------
Acura 2001 CL Type S, (black on black)
Acura 1996 CL (bronze on stove)

SidVicious

I thought that post was very informative (the stuff about the torque and HP and their relationship.) Cool stuff. Wonder if we'll see a reply from the M3 dude.

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Sid Vicious
2001 CL Type S w/ NAV in Silver | Wheel Locks | Front Plate (Mounted in the Trunk) | Mobil 1 | Polarg M6 NEW! |
1992 Ford Ranger XLT in Silver | F-150 Springs | 3" Body Lift | K&N Filter | Flowmaster Exhaust

spiroh

Deadly,

You are too funny LOL.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

gavriil

Thanks mister Sex Pistol...


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Gabriel
CL Type S

Red Rider

Hey Gavriil,nice post.I like the "non mag- race boy" tag for Tom2.I love these track "EXPERTS" telling all of us how it really is.Maybe we should all put on helmets in our photos to prove we live at the track.

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San Marino Red
Spoiler
Comptech Headers
Comptech Sways

Jayru

Hahaha This is TOO Funny. I had problems with the "M3 Prick" also.. Check out this quote from some private e-mail between me and him after he insulted me RIGHT AFTER LOOSING MY CL-S FOR 4 1/2 months!!!!!

e:Beeing a prick
Date:
13 Dec 2000 01:02:57 -0000
From:
"Tom R" <tom@automotiveauthority.com>
To:
jerry518@netrox.net


On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:05:40 -0500 jerry <jerry518@netrox.net> wrote:
>Hey tom. What's your problem man? Why must you be such a fucking asshole
>on the bbs? Lemme quote you, if I may?
>Nice job, speed racer. You managed to mangle the front and the back, all
>in one wreck.
>
>See, You really need to learn how to mingle with people. I might need
>driving lessons, but YOU need people skills. I chose to do this over
>e-mail because I AM NOT gonna start a flame thread. I now, Have a
>problem with you. and I will NEVER respect you until you give me reason
>to. You might be a prick because Cars and mechanics is your speciality.
>Shit I know I can act like a prick when someone thinks they know what
>they are talking about when it comes to electronics. But I control it. I
>control what I say. I REALIZe that what I might say will offend some
>people.
>Do me a favor and DO NOT REPLY to ANY of my comments EVER again in the
>forums. You have been warned. Just do me that favior. I do not want to
>have to "take action"
>Respectifully,
>Jerry
>

Fuck off asshole. I bet you love to threaten people anonymously. The reason
that I'm being a "prick" to you is because you keep calling me a prick. So
I guess you can say that I'm making an honest person out of you. I never
asked for your respect, and quite frankly, don't want it.

Go ahead and "take action". I'll be waiting. I'd love to see you threaten
me to my face so I could break you in half.

As for replying to your posts-- You don't like it? Tough shit. Don't read
it. Don't think your silly little threats will stop me from doing
anything.>
>

HEY TOM!!! YOU DICKHEAD!!! Remember this??? Man I miss our arguments!!! You always seemed to make things more amusing around here!

DtEW

gavrill, per your example, if I make a million lb-ft at 1000 rpm, I'm making over A HUNDRED AND NINETY THOUSAND HORSEPOWER at 1000rpm. I can gear that thing to kingdom come and hit 200mph in 1st @ 1000rpm.

Not picking at the integrity of your argument, which is actually sound. A better contrived example coulda helped further, though.

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051/LP/SR/LD/HH

[This message has been edited by DtEW (edited 04-26-2001).]

gavriil

Yeah you are right. I thought the rest was self explanatory. I meant to say, I dont care if your train makes a million lb-ft of torque at 1000 rpm, if my car makes more HP than your train, my car will win even if it makes less (peak) torque.



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Gabriel
CL Type S

M5 Lite

hehe, interesting thread. Too bad its too long to read the first post . Otherwise nice job on the first post, very informative.

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'98 Dakar Yellow ///M3
www.BMWExperience.com
Forums are now open at www.BMWExperience.com
0-60 5.53 sec G-Tech

Tom2

** Yawn **

Gavriil,

You are a serious little bookwork, aren't you?

You can call me a redneck all you want. That amuses me, since I was born and raised in NY. Didn't know there were rednecks in NY.

I love the way you were absolutely reduced to insults- pretty pathetic if you ask me.

As for your HP vs. Torque debate- Sorry, but you're just dead wrong. Anyone that knows anything about drag racing knows that its torque that gets you moving off the line. Horsepower is what pulls you to high speed at the finish line.

I could spend 15 minutes typing a detailed reasoning on this debate, but I won't. Why? Simple- You're acting like a totally asshole as usual and it's not worth my time/effort to explain shit to you that you have NO idea about.

Keep reading the books, little boy. Some day you'll find the time to actually LIVE this stuff instead of reading about it.

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dead CL-S and M3

Tom2

You're a pathitic little dickboy aren't you? How long are you gonna save that email? Maybe you should print it out and tape it to your wall.

I stick by ALL of my reply to your email.

Why don't you go drive your CL into another guardrail, loser. LOL, it has too much "horsepower" for you. Remember that stupid comment?



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dead CL-S and M3

M5 Lite

Got a good point about being a bookworm




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'98 Dakar Yellow ///M3
www.BMWExperience.com
Forums are now open at www.BMWExperience.com
0-60 5.53 sec G-Tech

Tom2

Gavriil,

Now that I think about it.....

Your response to my post just absolutely proves my case.

You spent mucho time typing a typical "bookworm" reply.

Like I said at the end of my original post-- Jut line two cars up and see which one is faster.



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dead CL-S and M3

CLpower

i have to agree w/ tom on this one. I didn't read all gavrills thread but i'll stop early


first of all, TORQUE is what wins races. HP pulls you at the top of your powerband not at the bottom. Torque is what causes your tires to spin, not your HP. Sure both of them together make a fast car. But torque is what is king on the street. Sure you see these cars w/ 900 HP that are the king, but get a look at their torque figures they will be up in the same range.

and second, the no replacement for displacement comment is exactly true until you start throwing things like turbos, and supercharges into the mix.


gavrill, sorry to burst you bubble, but your innocent attempt at proving our all mighty conceided (sp?) BMW owner wrong didn't work. Tom knows his shit, he's a very reliable source. Better pick your enemies better next time.

and JAYRU, it does take a moron to fuck up the front and back of his car in an accident

Fabvsix

C A S E CLOSED !

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2001 CL Type S Black/Ebony w/NAVI, PIAA bulbs, Tinted windows, JL Sub-woofer/Fosgate 250 watt amp, otherwise pure stock
1998 Accord Coupe EX-V6
Black Currant Pearl, PIAA bulbs, tinted windows, Fosgate 500 watt amp, Eclipes 6X9's,JL Sub-woofer, otherwise PURE stock !

EricL

Excuse me, but do you have the "Lock Box". We need to put this in the "Lock Box". If Soopa would only put this in the "Lock Box"





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Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines ordered
• Comptech headers & sways ready
• Silver AEM CAI ready
• 8 coats of Zaino magic

Mike

I'll do it!!!

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2001 Satin Silver Cl Type S.
Comptech:Headers, Springs & Sways
AEM CAI
Toyo T1S Proxys 235/45/17
SSR Competition wheels 17x8
35% Llumar metallic tint
My Car

CLpower

why there are still good arguments and many mis-understood points to be made

you guys are rediculous for thinking this needs to be locked. Gavrill needs to realize hes not right about everything here

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my mom and bestfriend have told me to tell you guys to stop telling me to spend my money; they are tired of my automobiles getting pampered and them getting whats left over which usually consists of change I find in my car by doing things you guys encourage

Mike

Scoot, point taken but there's too much bashing and it's become pointless. Open another thread if you'd like to.

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2001 Satin Silver Cl Type S.
Comptech:Headers, Springs & Sways
AEM CAI
Toyo T1S Proxys 235/45/17
SSR Competition wheels 17x8
35% Llumar metallic tint
My Car