wndrlst

***Disclaimer: I am not a lesbian, dammit.***

I'm thinking of ditching my TSX for something more...useful.

I'm looking into the Outback & the Forester - purchase or lease, haven't decided yet.

Couple of questions:
Does anyone have any personal experience with either or both?

How important is the turbo? It's crazy expensive to add.

I'm looking for something with light off-road capabilities that has room for a large dog in the back and is generally capable. However, I feel stupid for trading a car that's paid off, so I'm looking to keep things as inexpensive as possible.

Thanks!

Street Spirit

In the past three years, we have test driven many Subaru models. The Legacy was on my short list when I was seriously considering getting rid of the '99 TL a few years ago. Simply put: It felt very small inside, completely outdated, and only the turbo felt exciting to drive. Result: I took it off my list for the time being.

Since the '09 models were released, we've also checked out the Legacy wagon and new Forester for some of the very same reasons you are looking. The wagon is still pretty small, IMO. The redesigned Forester is larger and has many benefits over the outgoing model, although I'm not fond of the raised-SUV look (I'm not particularly fond of SUVs) or the front grill, but there is a sport grill you can throw on though that looks 100x better. Again, the interior was upgraded from the last gen, but still feels outdated....but I'd say liveable (even moreso than the Legacy, IMO).

I'd have NO problem using the Forester to its fullest, getting it dirty, and not feeling the least bit bad about it. After having compared it to other vehicles with a hatch, this one felt most utilitarian -- mostly because it's not really luxurious...going back to my thoughts of using it and not feeling like I'd need to baby it. As with the other Subarus...the non-turbo was at least livable but the turbo DEFINITELY made a huge difference. The turbo wasn't necessarily fast or exciting, but it didn't lag and feel a little starved like the non-turbo. Also, the engine was much quieter.

The Forester will likely stay on our list of possible next vehicles. It needs to be a hatch, in any case, so we can actually start hauling PEOPLE around in the back seat....currently, Hugo takes up the whole thing.

If you do a search, you should find the thread I created after our initial test drive of the 2009 Forester.

Street Spirit

BTW, we had the same discussion re: keeping things fairly inexpensive (hard to do with Canadian car pricing) and the feel of the turbo. Really, you'll just have to test drive both models and see if the cost is worth it to you. They feel like completely different vehicles. We're wondering if they'll get rid of the outdated 4 speed auto tranny for at least a 5-speed next model year.

wndrlst

Good info, SS - thank you. Did you drive the non-turbo with the MT or auto?

I don't think they're offering the Legacy in a 5 door anymore, at least in the states. I'm guessing it was pretty similar in size to the Outback?

It's funny, I'm looking for something I can beat on a little harder than my TSX (without feeling guilty), but I'm resisting the loss of some of the luxuries at the same time. Damn trade-offs. :P

I just realized I did the search for just the Outback, then got interested in the Forester...off to find your thread!

Street Spirit

We test drove everything with the Auto. The non-turbo Forester felt like it took forever to change gears, it was noisy, and lacked power. I floored it on many occasions and waited, waited, waited til it felt like I was actually going fast. Mind you, we're all used to cars with 200 HP/torque +. It was doable, but the power would've definitely been a step down, but surely not unsafe (a la Honda Fit that took us forever to get up to merging speed). Remember, we also test drove it with three adults but we also needed to consider we'd have Hugo (another 100 lbs +) plus gear and luggage....so it would probably feel like a bit of a strain -- certainly not an enthusiastic drive. But, it handled well, had GREAT visibility all the way around (thanks to the design of the rear window), the seats were comfortable, more rear legroom than the previous gen, more cargo space, a redesigned dash, etc, etc, etc.

Again, the turbo felt like a completely different car, not that you couldn't manage without it. Take them out for a spin and you'll feel the difference! It'll probably feel a lot more like you're used to. With the upgraded engine, came an upgraded interior with a few more options. You'll have to consider it'll cost you more in fuel, aside from the overall increased price of the car itself.

I know it made it out to seem like the interior is really outdated.... it's really not so bad, especially when you know you're getting a great engine out of the deal (where they spend most of their money instead of the gadgets). You just have to go in it without comparing it to Acura and other luxury brands and view it as its own car. We would have no problem owning one and driving one!! It's certainly an upgrade from the last gen.

Sorry --- we still have the Legacy wagon and the Outback. As far as I know, they are essentially the same aside from ride height/clearance and the two-tone paint/trim on the exterior. Considering just Hugo's standing height, we figured the head clearance wouldn't even be enough for him to get up and move, and the actual cargo space didn't seem like it would be enough to include Hugo AND all of the gear and luggage we usually take.... In fact, even the Forester will probably just have enough room in the back.

Sarlacc

You're right I dont see the Legacy Wagon anymore

They still have the outback which is the exact same thing as the Legacy Wagon. Like SS said, it just has a different ride height/body cladding.

It was meant more for getting dirty jobs done and getting offroad. Its a beefier wagon overall.

Sarlacc

might I suggest looking for a used Audi All Road?

They are GREAT all road wagons.

Gnate

iTrader: (10)

STI Forrester. /Discussion.



Oh wait you said inexpensive... damn, nevermind

calgary2800

My parents have a 05 Outback and they like everything about it except for the interior space. Without going into tech spec on shoulder width, headroom etc they have always said its feels cramped. And my mom is only 5 feet tall at best!!

I like the new Forester better by a country just on space and interior design alone.

TommySalami

My mom has had a 06 Forester non-turbo for a few years now and so far it has been a bulletproof car that is great for hauling whatever around, and would work great for pets. It doesn't have the room that an SUV would, but it drives much better than an SUV and is pretty economical. The only downsides are that the engine is loud and lacks power, and the interior is not very nice especially when compared to the TSX. Personally, I couldn't switch from the luxury of a TSX to the more spartan Forester, but if functionality is what you're looking for then you might be okay. The Outback would probably be a better option though, because the room is about the same and it has a much nicer interior.

mattg

they also have air ride suspension which tends to break and is a fortune to fix. And twin turbo's with the same issue. If it has a warranty, they are a sweet ride.

mattg

I would suggest an outback or '09 Forester. If you have the extra dough the XT (turbo) would be choice. But that means you have to run super unleaded and your mileage will be worse to begin with. I would drive both versions of each and go from there. The n/a models have decent power, but the XT's are a whole other ballgame.

'09 Forester XT would be pretty sweet. I would like to have an older model Forester XT, STi swapped and dumped. I would be one happy lesbian.

wndrlst

Thanks for all the input, everyone! From my research so far, I'm leaning toward the Forester. Probably non-turbo (I'd like as close to no car payment as possible, since I have some potential career changes in mind ). I'd like the Limited trim level, but they aren't offered with MT, so chances are I'll end up with the Premium + all weather package (must have butt-warmer!) w/ the manual tranny. I'm planning to test drive on Tuesday, so who knows..it could all go up in smoke after driving it. We'll see.

There's a dealership in MD offering the trim & color I'm eyeing at almost $1k below invoice (internet price). To be continued...

wndrlst

Oh, and I can no longer find my way to the corner 7-11 without my Navi, so I'll be in the market for an aftermarket, I guess...

Sarlacc

The air bladders can pop yes. But if you know a good mechanic and where to get the parts online, you are usually fine.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

I've always liked them. They are pretty solid. My issue is that I never liked the base models, and once you start looking at the ones with upgrades they get pricey.

What about a Volvo?

mattg

that's awesome you're looking for an MT.

Myxomatosis

I just wouldnt want a a non-turbo subie anything, my mother had one(98' outback legacy) and it sucked, she tried trading me for my 92' camry, but I wouldn't trade.....slower than the camry. They ended up trading it in for an 07' CRV, which she loves and it has balls(relatively speaking). I bring this up, mainly because a MT is being discussed, I wouldn't want to bother with a MT in a not fast car.

GreenMonster

A friend of mine had a flat 6 outback. He didn't want the turbo, so he got the NA six cylinder instead. Had to get the LL Bean package at the time. It was a nice ride and was pretty much trouble free up to around 140K miles or so.

I've always loved station wagons... but just haven't needed to buy one.

If I were a lesbian, I'd go with the Forester XT... It provides a lot of utility without being a damn minivan.

mattg

'09 FXT with STi swap and ATP direct bolt GT3076R + supporting mods would decimate all, regardless of gender or sexual orientation.

GreenMonster

Matt, what's the deal with an STi swap on a XT... The engines are the same, right ?? Just configured differently for different HP output??

I know the 2nd gen forester XT had bumps in HP throughout it's run... 210 and 230...

mattg

Basically it's about turbo and intercooler configurations. Up until 2008 the Legacy had it's own turbo and intercooler style that wasn't shared by the FXT, WRX or STi. The new FXT and 2008 + WRX now run the same "Legacy style" turbo and IC. The STi style is superior because of turbo options, design, IC core size and efficiency.

Now that the WRX platform shares the Legacy style turbo/IC, options are becoming more plentiful, but still lag far behind STi options, including the ATP direct bolt turbo I mentioned above. No one would even consider a direct bolt GT3076R for the "Legacy style" intercooler because it wouldn't be efficient enough for the cooling demands of a turbo of that size.

The other way to run STi style turbo's is to change to a FMIC.

wndrlst

I'm a happier lesbian when I still get to play with a stick.



Yeah, but I don't really care how quick I am off the line. I'm not a terribly aggressive driver. I drive faster than I should when cruising, but don't floor it at take-off. As long as it has enough get up & go to merge safely in this godawful traffic around here, I'm good.

Mostly, I need a capable, reliable utility vehicle that I can beat on a bit - I'd rather pay 21K than closer to 30k for a vehicle I'll be abusing. I'm also enough of an environmentalist to appreciate the better gas mileage of the non-turbo engine. (Though honestly, I'd still be more than tempted if it came with a MT - I'm just trying to make myself feel better. )

Oh, and maybe it's just me, but I don't have to have my hair on fire to appreciate driving a stick.

wndrlst

Volvos are pretty pricey, too, no? It seems like anything with 4WD/AWD gets pretty expensive pretty quickly.

TommySalami

I think you're better off as a lesbian in a Forester than a soccer mom in a Volvo

mattg

You're also never going to find a Volvo with a MT. Besides, you're a lesbian, not a teacher.

An N/A Forester has plenty of power to merge in traffic or do whatever you need it to do. A girl I've been dating has an '09 Forester that I've driven several times and it has plenty of low end TQ and power. Keep in mind that the car Myxo is talking about is 11 years old. They have definitely improved since then.

Sarlacc

V70R did in fact come in a MT....trying to find on the other....needle in a haystack

TommySalami

Someone on campus here has a black one. I've only seen it from the back so I can't tell who drives it though

mitch14

^have you had personal experience with the allroads? i was considering one from one of the first years they were being built as a utilitarian but more luxurious vehicle. Just some of the stories on the net, and audi reliability in general kinda scares me. Other than that i think it might be a really good fit for me.

sorry for the highjack OP.
And the forester does seem like a good fit for you, most of the people i know have nothing but good things to say about their subarus. Let us know how your test drive went with the one you had your eye on

wndrlst

Awesome - that's exactly the kind of input I wanna hear! Thanks

Sarlacc

I was looking at them for awhile. A good friend of mine that out in Mammoth, CA bought a used one last year. Found it out of state, drove it back to LA. Took to his friends shop and replaced one of the suspension bags. He loves it. Drives it through all the snow up in Mammoth, and drives to LA a lot when he comes into town for work or to see family.

wndrlst

Part of the reason I would personally shy away from it. Beating on luxury cars makes me cringe, regardless of how utilitarian. Just me.
NP. I spend my time in Ramblings where on-topic is verboten.

mitch14

^yeah, and i mean utilitarian in the sense that it has those plastic bumper covers, higher ground clearance etc...stuff that i wouldn't care if i park close to someone, need to go through a bunch of snow/sand/salt/mud. i don't mean as in if i rip around in the car all the time and hit snowbanks or anything, as i learnt from my last car that i shouldn't treat any cars badly(especially most luxury brands) or else you will regret it. It just seems like the audi is utilitarian on the outside where i would want it, and luxury on the inside(where i would want the luxury), a 2.7 engine for a little more gas mileage, twin turbos for a little fun, and airbags so you can adjust the ride height for what you are doing. but that's just me, as i don't think i can give up the luxuries of leather seats among all the other options, as i am somewhat of an electronic junky
And i can totally see where you are coming from. as it would be nice not to care that much for a car either, be able to go wherever you want with it, and haul around whatever you want inside it, without always worrying about ruining your paint/getting things dirty or broken for that matter.

and thanks sarlacc for your input, i will be looking into them a little more now

Sarlacc

How does a used utility vehicle fare any different than a NEW subie?

I'd be more inclined to care less about the used vehicle.

Sarlacc

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mitch14

^damn, now i really want an allroad again i hope it's more realiable than the internets make it out to be

Batosai

wndrlst: you might wanna talk to a friend who used to own an acura, but is now currently using a subie...his screen name is "Rescuer" aka Jeff aka Jeff Bob aka Hey You aka Yo etc etc etc..j/k Jeff..LOL peace!

EuRTSX

Wonderlust.

I drove a WRX for a year before our same year TSX's.

This being said, I hope you're ready for more speeding tickets

wndrlst

Punk ass.


Test driving this evening..will let you know. Just keeping my fingers crossed for a fair offer on the TSX.

Myxomatosis

yeah, I've no idea really what the new NA powered subies are like, hers had the165hp 2.5L AT. It just had no balls at all, I think it was the combo, of the relatively small 4cyl motor, coupled with a fairly heavy, large AWD car. I'm sure the 6cyl, is much more peppy. One last note, the car did die of multiple oil seal leaks, they fixed it several times(always serviced by Subaru), but it just got more and more expensive to fix.