speedemon90

Car and driver has some good intentions
for the campaign. Dunno how far its gonna go though, doubt it will change anything really

I wish I owned a manual, that will change when I get my next car, can't really do anything as my car was handed down to me.

caranddriver.com/savethemanuals

Things to do, look at their site

speedemon90

although I don't have a manual, I've learned to drive a manual, and I gotta say I love it.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Already "liked" it.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I am a long time from ever considering any car that is not manual. I tried it once...lasted me a month...couldn't deal with it. I felt bored!

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

This is also a from the "Funny internet pics" thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...postcount=7985

speedemon90

Oh my bad, never go in there.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

It's all good. I don't mind this, as I think all people on a car internet forum should possess these sentiments. Seriously.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

^^^^
That shit is awesome...

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

It's sad to see so many slush boxes in cars these days. There is no excuse for a performance car- like a Ferrari- to not offer a MT.

Will Y.

Sure there is-- when the auto can be driven faster than the manual. Take a look at the number of F1 cars with stick shifts.

A good manual transmission is a joy to drive, but I won't miss mediocre or bad manual shifter options.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

I came from auto to MT on purpose,

Sure it's a bitch in traffic ..but it really rewards you when you feel like going for a blast down the highway rowing through gears.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

I tend to agree. Although the traditional 3-pedal tranny might be 0.2 seconds slower to 60 than the state-of-the-art auto trannies, I'll give up 0.2 seconds.

Ken1997TL

I miss my Prelude..

My next vehicle will have a manual transmission, no exceptions.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

Understood, but why can't they make their manuals as potent as the slosh boxes? I get that a lot of it has to do with the driver but still...its 2010.

I too would give up the .2 seconds. I drive an auto in my TL, but have been learning stick in my dads Corvette and what a blast it is having complete control. It's a completely different experience. Loved it the few times I've driven it (505HP aside..).

speedemon90

Thing is, ferrari is assuming every one of their owners track it. Probably 5 percent of their owners give a shit about whether their 0-60 is .2 seconds quicker in the F1 transmission. Probably even less than that. Unless you are very competitive about racing other people, a manual will be a hundred times more fun and the people who do take these cars to the track are competing with themselves, to improve on their own time. So they do have a reason to make a manual. I dunno how expensive it is to make both.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Manuals=cheaper than auto trannies.

CL6

I'm sure people said the same thing when double action revolvers came out.

speedemon90

It is cheaper to make a manual, but when like 60 or 70% of the buyers opt for the auto, is it worth to keep the manual, I think thats the main thing that made Ferrari choose to only offer one gearbox because less and less people were buying their manuals each year.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

It's the bottom line.

Costco

Sadly I think the number is more like 95% of buyers prefer auto in general

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

teranfon

Yep. The majority of purchasers want automatics. Automatics are less expensive to produce and warrant. A manual only appeals to a small segment of the population, and manufacturers can certainly minimize costs by producing or purchasing a gearbox that can be used throughout a model line.

As Will has mentioned as well, the new automatics and clutchless gearboxes have improved dramatically. In most instances they now offer greater performance, fuel economy, and drivability than their manual counterparts.

Given the choice I will always prefer a manual. Up until a few years ago I even ordered all light trucks for commercial use with manuals until Ford stopped offering them. In a few years I can certainly see a number of manufacturers not offering a manual shift gearbox of any sort.


Terry

Costco

A traditional manual is almost always stronger, cheaper to manufacture on a single-unit basis, less parasitic and lighter than an automatic with the same number of forward speeds. Hell, if stout enough, driven correctly and in the right conditions the original clutch (and the transmission too) can last as long as any automatic transmission without needing significant maintenance.

And as for me, I have yet to drive a car that's funner to drive in automatic form (even dual clutch form) than it is in manual.... giant moving vans aside.

West6MT

Traditional manual FTW!!!!!!

teranfon

I think much depends on the cost of manufacturing across a product line. Automatics are often designed and manufactured by outside sources other than the company producing the car. In many instances a similar automatic can be used for several models within a product line.

I agree that manuals can last as long as automatics, but very few who drive a manual actually drive it properly. People tend to wear out clutches and related parts while driving it on a regular basis. As much as I will always drive a manual if given the choice, I can see why most manufacturers are moving away from them.



Terry

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

x2

I dont care how much faster an automatic tranny is nowadays, it will never match the joy of rowing your own gears.

tmnhs81

My next car is going to be manual, most likely E46 330i ZHP. My job requires me to know to drive a manual very well.

Costco

I agree with you as well. More people want automatics, so it only makes sense to make more automatics. These days, companies like Toyota no longer offer manual transmissions to their "sporty" models.... it's almost only offered as a cost-reducing "option", if you will

For instance, if Toyota/Lexus offers manuals, its only on their base models and/or its not available on the top of the line trim. For instance, 4-cyl Camry CE only, or almost any Tacoma except for the double cab longbed, or IS250 only, not IS350 or IS-F

PortlandRL

When I was learning to drive my dad insisted I learn to drive stick even though (at the time) I didn't want to. I learned on a 1993 Saab 9000 Aero which had the worst clutch to learn with and I swear the point of engagement was about this wide >< but I eventually got it. To this day I still thank my dad for his foresight and because of it I have gotten to drive Audi RS4s, pretty much every Porsche, a Corvette Z06 and many other great cars with manual gearboxes.

I'm pretty sure my next car will have one.

BurnabyTSX

+++1000

I prefer driving a car, not a video game.

Will Y.

I question those assumptions-- if anything, Ferrari probably anticipates that 80%+ of the owners will drive/own the cars for image and to cruise; they won't not even drive hard, let alone race.

While I haven't driven a Ferrari or Lamborghini, I've not heard good things about how the gated shifters work. If I buy another manual transmission car, I want it to be fun to shift-- like a Miata MX5 or RX8-- not work to shift like a '71 Challenger 340 4-Barrel or 440.

speedemon90

Off topic, but I'm a manual newb. I have the gist of how to drive, and I've learned the basics, driven a few different cars, dont really stall. But how do I know I'm learning the right way? Because before I get a manual and learn, somewhat on my own, I don't wanna get bad habits. I would rather have them gone when I start learning.

Do we have any threads or do you know of any links that can teach you some of these bad techniques? Ultimately I bet it would come down to having someone sit with you, I guess my dad would be pretty good, but he hasn't driven a manual in quite a while.

speedemon90

sorry i dunno why I said everyone tracks it I'm sure only 5-10% do that, if not less.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Ask SouthernBoy.

YeuEmMaiMai

lol at the complete control comments.....one never has complete control, you are only kidding yourself if you think you do.....

on a more serious note. emissions is becoming such a bitch that the only way car manufacturers can meet them is by total computer control over the car and that means no manual for you.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I understand how many feel... The need of a manual transmission in United States is not wanted by many drivers. I am currently in Greece right now and 95% of vehicles on the road are manual transmission driven. Now, sure in USA the same models that are offered in both countries are different in a few ways but here in Europe the norm to these people is simply driving a small compact vehicle with a very small engine which is better with a manual transmission.

Reason why is simple, power when you need it and when you don't and it's lighter and saves more space then using an automatic transmission. Replacing a clutch on most of these vehicles here is no more difficult then replacing drive axles. It's very simple, all vehicles here are rarely bigger than 1.2L engines. For us in USA, we don't have the need for a manual transmission due to the main fact that everyone is generally "Lazy" to learn manual drive. Another thing is with an automatic you could get better gas mileage over a manual transmission because it will shift faster and keep you lower. That being said is only a general statment. Most of us that drive manual would drive a little more aggressive and keep the engine at a higher RPM over an automatic which generally driving normal it would keep you less.

Traffic where I live in NJ is pretty nasty, traffic here in Europe is light, most of the people here use motorcycles over cars in the summer seasons. Now I don't know how it is during winter but I can firmly state that NJ is filled with traffic all year round. With that said, an automatic would benifit us better, but a manual in europe is better. I firmly believe that USA and most of these amazing vehicles shipped here from Europe are made automatic because of our people. We just don't demand the need for a manual here people are just lazy to even bother learning how to drive a manual... BTW My 2004 TL is a manual, my 95 maxima before was a manual and before that the 95 S500 mercedes was an automatic. I would rather have a manual but for winter seasons 4x4 automatics hand down.

Costco

I never have owned an automatic car and I probably never will. An automatic truck is possible in the far future. But the growing popularity of dual clutch manuals is a much more favorable prospect to me than an automatic, and if I ever bought a car without a traditional manual (hope not) then it would be one with a dual clutch manual.

Manuals still remain standard on several diesel cars, mainly Volkswagen, and some entry level Audi models. The majority of their lineup comes with a manual standard, and they current offer four vehicles with TDI. The diesels will more than meet the goals set by the EPA for the foreseeable future and the DSG transmission option will set you back another $1,000 or so.

Add on top of that, some models of cars are only sold with a manual transmission, or I would confidently guess that a large majority of them are (>70%). The recently discontinued S2000, Miata, Z06, Civic Si, Viper, Mustang Cobra, Sentra SE-R Spec-V, MS3, WRX/STi, Evo, etc.

They are the minority, but they are out there, and there are still other cars that still have a notable number of manual transmission buyers. I can see it slowly being offered in fewer and fewer vehicles, but I don't see it completely going away.

mrmako

You forgot another reason autos are better for the US automobile industry: Emissions certification.

With states going to zero emissions or near zero, a standard is a bit tougher to get through the certification process. This is a huge cost and time consuming headache for the industry and that is a big reason less of them are in the US.

Oh, Subaru offers a stick on all of their cars. The Legacy GT is offered ONLY with a 6MT, and Imprezza WRX/STI's are stick only. The Mazdaspeed 3 is also stick only.

SouthernBoy

Yep, assuming the manual is properly designed for the vehicle, made of quality parts, and installed correctly (this includes the clutch assembly as well as the transmission), a manual is far less expensive to own and operate and will outlast an automatic through several rebuilds/replacements of the automatic transmission. It's not uncommon or special for a clutch to get over 300,000 miles of life and there's nothing really in the transmission to go bad in it's lifetime... assuming the conditions stated.

My oldest daughter's SUV's auto tranny failed three weeks ago and it's the second time. She wants to get another vehicle at this point. I suggested she might want to get a manual and she might be open to that (her first few cars were manual and I taught her). My youngest daughter will not buy an automatic - period. I swear, she can drive anything.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

To me, a huge selling point to a manual is more than likely the only thing you'll ever have to replace is a $300 clutch rather than a $3000 tranny. I'm sure a lot of 2G'ers would agree since I've read that they have a lot of problems with them.

I personally would still be driving my RSX-S had this TL not been 6 speed too.
In addition, I think it's actually better for a 16 year old kid to learn how to drive a stick. I think it really does make them a better driver with better control of the car etc. I would hate to feel "stranded" anywhere because a car is not automatic!