S4, My CL-S6 Replacement
11-06-2004, 11:42 AM
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S4, My CL-S6 Replacement
Here are the pictures of the S4 I picked up. It is weird; this is the first used car I have gotten for us in over a decade. I honestly thought I would never do this but considering the options out there and what our desires were, the Twin Turbo V6 and AWD was too appealing.
As for the difference in the stock CL-S6 and this 6MT S4, they are quite different. The S4 is a little heavier but it is hard to tell with its smaller overall dimensions. My CL-S6 still has Comptech springs and sways installed so it actually is flatter through the turns. However, the S4 has less understeer and pulls out of the turn a little better. But that says quite a bit about the ability of the CL-S6, being a larger FWD vehicle but with the HLSD, it can just about hang with the S4 in a sweeping turn. I suspect in a slalom test the S4 would fair better but that is rarely done on the road.
Power delivery is significantly different. I suspect they would run close times with the S4 probably running a bit quicker ET due to the harder launching capability and torque advantage. But they would probably trap in the same range meaning the CL-S6 may be quicker from a roll when headers are added. Once moving the CL-S6 with headers feels like it never loses breathe all the way to red line. Whereas the S4 has great torque from as low as 2k revs but starts to choke up around 5k revs. Also, the CL-S6 sounds better at the higher revs.
With that said, the S4 is easier to drive normally. That low end torque helps to keep me out in front of the crowds without needing to rev it to 6k+. I never have to worry about spinning the tires at a launch making the stop light to stop light movement a breeze.
Creature comforts are hard to say, the S4 has great seats as does the CL-S6; which are better is hard to say as they are different in their comfort. The stock stereo is better and I do love the driver information in the instrument panel. I also like the amber dash lights but I can't say it is better, just different. The build quality is again, different. The German’s just do things in a very methodical fashion border lining on over doing it. Some things could be done simpler and yet as effective which is how most of the Japanese brands tend to do things. Everything does close with more authority including the hood and trunk. But that should be expected in a car that cost nearly 40% more.
This car just turned 37k miles, is in perfect condition and caries the 7 year, 100k mile warranty. It is Santorin Blue Pearl (nearly identical to the CL-S Aegean Blue Pearl) with Silver Nappa Leather. I got it for a couple thousand less that what others were being marketed for. Any, that is all for now, here are the pictures.
Oh yea, either the APR or GIAC chip will be added soon; can’t beat $600 to add 60 HP and 110 lb/ft torque. That will put it at about the same amount of torque I had in the CL-S6 with the blower and IC but at about 2500 RPM lower making it more useable.
BTW, the CL-S6 is still available, 23.5k miles for only $22k.
As for the difference in the stock CL-S6 and this 6MT S4, they are quite different. The S4 is a little heavier but it is hard to tell with its smaller overall dimensions. My CL-S6 still has Comptech springs and sways installed so it actually is flatter through the turns. However, the S4 has less understeer and pulls out of the turn a little better. But that says quite a bit about the ability of the CL-S6, being a larger FWD vehicle but with the HLSD, it can just about hang with the S4 in a sweeping turn. I suspect in a slalom test the S4 would fair better but that is rarely done on the road.
Power delivery is significantly different. I suspect they would run close times with the S4 probably running a bit quicker ET due to the harder launching capability and torque advantage. But they would probably trap in the same range meaning the CL-S6 may be quicker from a roll when headers are added. Once moving the CL-S6 with headers feels like it never loses breathe all the way to red line. Whereas the S4 has great torque from as low as 2k revs but starts to choke up around 5k revs. Also, the CL-S6 sounds better at the higher revs.
With that said, the S4 is easier to drive normally. That low end torque helps to keep me out in front of the crowds without needing to rev it to 6k+. I never have to worry about spinning the tires at a launch making the stop light to stop light movement a breeze.
Creature comforts are hard to say, the S4 has great seats as does the CL-S6; which are better is hard to say as they are different in their comfort. The stock stereo is better and I do love the driver information in the instrument panel. I also like the amber dash lights but I can't say it is better, just different. The build quality is again, different. The German’s just do things in a very methodical fashion border lining on over doing it. Some things could be done simpler and yet as effective which is how most of the Japanese brands tend to do things. Everything does close with more authority including the hood and trunk. But that should be expected in a car that cost nearly 40% more.
This car just turned 37k miles, is in perfect condition and caries the 7 year, 100k mile warranty. It is Santorin Blue Pearl (nearly identical to the CL-S Aegean Blue Pearl) with Silver Nappa Leather. I got it for a couple thousand less that what others were being marketed for. Any, that is all for now, here are the pictures.
Oh yea, either the APR or GIAC chip will be added soon; can’t beat $600 to add 60 HP and 110 lb/ft torque. That will put it at about the same amount of torque I had in the CL-S6 with the blower and IC but at about 2500 RPM lower making it more useable.
BTW, the CL-S6 is still available, 23.5k miles for only $22k.
11-06-2004, 12:09 PM
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From a speed point of view, you're in an entirely different league now, so 
for leaving us in the dust (excluding allmotor/BlueCLS6).
From a looks point of view, it's hard to say. I like the front, but the back is merely okay. If the styling appeals to you, then rock on with it. It doesn't look like too roomy of a sedan, but it does seem (oddly) more comfortable. If I remember correctly, the leather on the seats is pretty damn good.
Enjoy your new car.
for leaving us in the dust (excluding allmotor/BlueCLS6).From a looks point of view, it's hard to say. I like the front, but the back is merely okay. If the styling appeals to you, then rock on with it. It doesn't look like too roomy of a sedan, but it does seem (oddly) more comfortable. If I remember correctly, the leather on the seats is pretty damn good.
Enjoy your new car.
11-06-2004, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Minch00
but that backseat looks really small 
If more room is needed I will take the Sienna XLE Limited and throw in a DVD for entertainment.
11-06-2004, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by goldmemberer
From a speed point of view, you're in an entirely different league now, so for leaving us in the dust (excluding allmotor/BlueCLS6).
for leaving us in the dust (excluding allmotor/BlueCLS6).
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11-06-2004, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by FutureBagdA4
beautiful!
chip, intake, exhaust, bypass valves and you're done!
chip, intake, exhaust, bypass valves and you're done!
11-06-2004, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by goldmemberer
From a looks point of view, it's hard to say. I like the front, but the back is merely okay. If the styling appeals to you, then rock on with it. It doesn't look like too roomy of a sedan, but it does seem (oddly) more comfortable. If I remember correctly, the leather on the seats is pretty damn good.
.
.
I like the subtle styling and simplicity.And yes, the Napa leather is incredible. Very soft yet hasn't shown any wear.
11-06-2004, 12:57 PM
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My friend had a 2002 S4. (sold it recently for a 6-speed TL - needed more space) It was a very nice car - fun to drive, nice power and well built. The only issue he had was that it really is small inside. Glad you have the minivan because having someone have to endure those back seats for a long period of time can be painful.
Good luck! My friend had the APR chip which gave a nice increase in power. I used to pull a car length or so with my Z from a roll (~50-90), but after he chipped it, he had me by almost 2 car lengths which is an amazing increase in performance for less than a grand.
Only major issue he had was that his transmission had to be replaced at 24k miles. It was before he chipped it. I haven't heard that it's a common issue, but possibly something to keep your eye on.
Good luck! My friend had the APR chip which gave a nice increase in power. I used to pull a car length or so with my Z from a roll (~50-90), but after he chipped it, he had me by almost 2 car lengths which is an amazing increase in performance for less than a grand.
Only major issue he had was that his transmission had to be replaced at 24k miles. It was before he chipped it. I haven't heard that it's a common issue, but possibly something to keep your eye on.
11-06-2004, 02:11 PM
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very nice bro best of luck with it, i have an imola yellow as well, with the alcantara seats. Go Borla if you decide to get exhaust, it sounds nasty. Now im on the pursuit to my the cl-s jus as fast....
Nice ride. 
11-06-2004, 04:41 PM
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Like the color, sweet ride. I hope you don't have any troubles with it. My friend had a 02 S4 and had a lot of problems with the TT's and front suspension.
11-06-2004, 05:26 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by scalbert
The styling isn't incredible, it is a bit sedate. But then again I was driving a CL-S which certainly doesn't scream out to be noticed. I like the subtle styling and simplicity.
I like the subtle styling and simplicity.
I like "bland" styling too Looks like it'll blend in nice in traffic too. Sounds like you got "alot" of car for "little" money, since it's used.
I like the Audi vehicles in blue...
11-06-2004, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
Glad you have the minivan because having someone have to endure those back seats for a long period of time can be painful.
Good luck! My friend had the APR chip which gave a nice increase in power. I used to pull a car length or so with my Z from a roll (~50-90), but after he chipped it, he had me by almost 2 car lengths which is an amazing increase in performance for less than a grand.
Good luck! My friend had the APR chip which gave a nice increase in power. I used to pull a car length or so with my Z from a roll (~50-90), but after he chipped it, he had me by almost 2 car lengths which is an amazing increase in performance for less than a grand.
So it was about the same duration run, about 50 MPH - 90 MPH, with and without the APR chip??
It sounds about right as I said the S4 doesn't seem to pull as well at speed. But with the extra power the chip provides the results seem correct. I suspect that going at it from a stand still would have resulted in a much greater margin. It seems like the S4's with a chip and exhaust trap in the 105 range.
11-06-2004, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kegger
very nice bro best of luck with it, i have an imola yellow as well, with the alcantara seats. Go Borla if you decide to get exhaust, it sounds nasty. Now im on the pursuit to my the cl-s jus as fast....
I do have a question about the Borla exhaust. I have always liked Borla's stuff, even purchased a couple of systems in the past. Theirs have always seemed to control the sound well. But what I want to know is how it works with the S4. I know APR, AWE, etc. have exhaust systems available and I am sure they flow very well. But I want something that is quite but flows better than stock. I don't mind a little more sound at mid to WOT inputs. But I do not want any droning at idle or cruise. I left the stock exhaust on the CL-S6 SC/IC because I wanted a low volume and even sound. I do not want to throw an exhaust on the S4 that it too much in normal conditions.
11-06-2004, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
Like the color, sweet ride. I hope you don't have any troubles with it. My friend had a 02 S4 and had a lot of problems with the TT's and front suspension.
I do have a great warranty but would like to go ahead and look into things initially.
11-06-2004, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jz-97-c7
nice ride...so that'll be whippin down 75 in rushhour
11-06-2004, 09:32 PM
#25
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I did get one good experience with the car today. We were at a baby shower this afternoon and on our way home I got to explore the handling capabilities real quick. I was getting on the interstate at the same location where I do when leaving the local Acura dealer so I know how the CL-S6 would handle this on-ramp.
This ramp has a short straight then a left turn, followed by another short straight and then a right turn before merging. When I got to the ramp there was no one around so I got on it while in 2nd. I entered the first turn and stayed on it through the turn. I was surprised by how well it held tight in the turn. Granted, the CL-S would have made the turn at the same speed but it would have pushed wide and required more attention. This thing just planted and pulled through very well without a hint of understeer.
I hit the next turn in 3rd but slowed up with as there was traffic up ahead.
I was quite pleased with the demeanor of the car and its ability to pull through the turn.
This ramp has a short straight then a left turn, followed by another short straight and then a right turn before merging. When I got to the ramp there was no one around so I got on it while in 2nd. I entered the first turn and stayed on it through the turn. I was surprised by how well it held tight in the turn. Granted, the CL-S would have made the turn at the same speed but it would have pushed wide and required more attention. This thing just planted and pulled through very well without a hint of understeer.
I hit the next turn in 3rd but slowed up with as there was traffic up ahead.
I was quite pleased with the demeanor of the car and its ability to pull through the turn.
11-06-2004, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by scalbert
Yea, the Sienna is great to have now and one of the reason we got this S4. I am not ashamed to say that I love having the Sienna (especially over an SUV). The room, ride and power are perfect for what it is, a people mover. I would never expect to have people in the S4 except for maybe a lunch meeting, that is about the duration for anyone in the back seat. Otherwise I will take the minivan, let someone else drive and watch a DVD.
So it was about the same duration run, about 50 MPH - 90 MPH, with and without the APR chip??
It sounds about right as I said the S4 doesn't seem to pull as well at speed. But with the extra power the chip provides the results seem correct. I suspect that going at it from a stand still would have resulted in a much greater margin. It seems like the S4's with a chip and exhaust trap in the 105 range.
So it was about the same duration run, about 50 MPH - 90 MPH, with and without the APR chip??
It sounds about right as I said the S4 doesn't seem to pull as well at speed. But with the extra power the chip provides the results seem correct. I suspect that going at it from a stand still would have resulted in a much greater margin. It seems like the S4's with a chip and exhaust trap in the 105 range.
I actually believe we ran from 50 to about 110 that time we raced (I wanted to see if I could catch him) after he got the chip. It was noticeably faster than stock. It's a mod well worth getting and didn't affect his around town drivibility.
11-06-2004, 09:44 PM
#27
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congrats steve, looks like a nice car. i've always like the S4.
how long ago did you ship out the goods to david? i haven't heard from him in a while.
how long ago did you ship out the goods to david? i haven't heard from him in a while.
11-06-2004, 10:34 PM
#28
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you'll love the car when you decide to do some modding. I had one w/the apr chip, apr bipipe and downpipe. The thing hauled ass. One thing I would personally recommend though. When you do decide to chip the ecu. I would buy an extra one and keep hold of the stock one. Also pickup a vag-com so you can erase any fault codes. When you swap ecu's you'll get a low voltage code which needs to be erased. There are also some other cool things you can do with the vag-com software. Such as tweaking the the eq on the radio and auto up/down of the windows via the remote.
I know ethically swapping ecu's in and out before going to the dealer is frowned upon. But if the dealer does find out that you've chipped the ecu, they will more than likely void your warranty. With the audi, an intact warranty is an absolute must.
I had my s4 for about 2 years. I bought it for 27k w/about 24k miles on it. I ended up selling it to a friend for 26k w/about 48k miles on it. So they definitely hold their value. When I had the car, the only things that went wrong were the maf sensor and the bypass valves. So basically about $300 worth of stuff. After selling it to my friend everything started breaking. First the motor mount, then the cv joint, then the brakes, then a turbo, then the transmission. The total cost for repair was about $8,000. Luckily, I sold it to him w/a warranty good til 100k miles. He was smart enough to put everything back to stock before bringing the car in. If he left it as is, I'm sure they would have voided the warranty.
Knowing everything I know now. I would still pick one up again in a heartbeat. Theyre awesome cars. Very well-rounded and the mods are definitely worth the money. You'll get good returns for your $$$.
I know ethically swapping ecu's in and out before going to the dealer is frowned upon. But if the dealer does find out that you've chipped the ecu, they will more than likely void your warranty. With the audi, an intact warranty is an absolute must.
I had my s4 for about 2 years. I bought it for 27k w/about 24k miles on it. I ended up selling it to a friend for 26k w/about 48k miles on it. So they definitely hold their value. When I had the car, the only things that went wrong were the maf sensor and the bypass valves. So basically about $300 worth of stuff. After selling it to my friend everything started breaking. First the motor mount, then the cv joint, then the brakes, then a turbo, then the transmission. The total cost for repair was about $8,000. Luckily, I sold it to him w/a warranty good til 100k miles. He was smart enough to put everything back to stock before bringing the car in. If he left it as is, I'm sure they would have voided the warranty.
Knowing everything I know now. I would still pick one up again in a heartbeat. Theyre awesome cars. Very well-rounded and the mods are definitely worth the money. You'll get good returns for your $$$.
11-07-2004, 01:59 AM
#31
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Excellent choice steve.... Definitely modding the S4 will bring a smile on your face.. Best of luck, and after modding it will you take this one to the track? Would have loved to see your CL there... But whts gone is gone... and best of luck with the present
11-07-2004, 02:10 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by scalbert
I did get one good experience with the car today. We were at a baby shower this afternoon and on our way home I got to explore the handling capabilities real quick. I was getting on the interstate at the same location where I do when leaving the local Acura dealer so I know how the CL-S6 would handle this on-ramp.
This ramp has a short straight then a left turn, followed by another short straight and then a right turn before merging. When I got to the ramp there was no one around so I got on it while in 2nd. I entered the first turn and stayed on it through the turn. I was surprised by how well it held tight in the turn. Granted, the CL-S would have made the turn at the same speed but it would have pushed wide and required more attention. This thing just planted and pulled through very well without a hint of understeer.
I hit the next turn in 3rd but slowed up with as there was traffic up ahead.
I was quite pleased with the demeanor of the car and its ability to pull through the turn.
This ramp has a short straight then a left turn, followed by another short straight and then a right turn before merging. When I got to the ramp there was no one around so I got on it while in 2nd. I entered the first turn and stayed on it through the turn. I was surprised by how well it held tight in the turn. Granted, the CL-S would have made the turn at the same speed but it would have pushed wide and required more attention. This thing just planted and pulled through very well without a hint of understeer.
I hit the next turn in 3rd but slowed up with as there was traffic up ahead.
I was quite pleased with the demeanor of the car and its ability to pull through the turn.
Get some H-sport sways and some coilovers and you will have to pinch yourself.
11-07-2004, 02:22 AM
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agree with Jesal
Also, dude, please...get a TUV approved chip if you have access to 93/94 octane.
Dahlback Racing or MTM ....
It costs a bit more, but BOTH MTM and Dahlback are under-rated, and actually make the claimed HP. My friend has an S4 with MTM chip, and another with an APR chip, the MTM chip creates more power, is more smooth and is running much better. Both @ the same PSI.
Dahlback is another amazing one.
MTM chip chip is 200 dollars more than APR, but VERY MUCH WORTH IT.
MTM = Tunger King of Audi when it comes to reliability, R&D and quality.
Dahlback = Uses MTM boards but different software, it is usually a bit more powerful. Dahlback chip claims 20lbs more torque than APR chip, and almost 30lbs of torque over MTM chip.
Both companies are TUV aproved, which means no shady tuner, no false claims, and BOTH these companies work DIRECTLY with audi. They have had software available for the new 2.0t A4's for a month now, a car that hasnt even been released!
APR's claims hardly ever prove themselves on dynos...where as MTM/Dahlback stuff always exceeds claims.
Dahlback chip is almost 2 times the price of APR, but imho worth it, EVERY damn penny.
Also, dude, please...get a TUV approved chip if you have access to 93/94 octane.
Dahlback Racing or MTM ....
It costs a bit more, but BOTH MTM and Dahlback are under-rated, and actually make the claimed HP. My friend has an S4 with MTM chip, and another with an APR chip, the MTM chip creates more power, is more smooth and is running much better. Both @ the same PSI.
Dahlback is another amazing one.
MTM chip chip is 200 dollars more than APR, but VERY MUCH WORTH IT.
MTM = Tunger King of Audi when it comes to reliability, R&D and quality.
Dahlback = Uses MTM boards but different software, it is usually a bit more powerful. Dahlback chip claims 20lbs more torque than APR chip, and almost 30lbs of torque over MTM chip.
Both companies are TUV aproved, which means no shady tuner, no false claims, and BOTH these companies work DIRECTLY with audi. They have had software available for the new 2.0t A4's for a month now, a car that hasnt even been released!
APR's claims hardly ever prove themselves on dynos...where as MTM/Dahlback stuff always exceeds claims.
Dahlback chip is almost 2 times the price of APR, but imho worth it, EVERY damn penny.
11-07-2004, 02:27 AM
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links:
MTM : http://www.hoppenmotorsport.com/
Dahlback : http://www.tjmmotorsport.com/s427biturbo.html
both sites suck,
MTM : http://www.hoppenmotorsport.com/
Dahlback : http://www.tjmmotorsport.com/s427biturbo.html
both sites suck,
11-07-2004, 06:59 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by mattg
how long ago did you ship out the goods to david? i haven't heard from him in a while.
11-07-2004, 07:02 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by blxmjx
Also pickup a vag-com so you can erase any fault codes. When you swap ecu's you'll get a low voltage code which needs to be erased. There are also some other cool things you can do with the vag-com software.
11-07-2004, 09:53 AM
#40
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Good choice steve the car looks great. Best of luck with it.
Glad to see you haven't lost the tuning bug. Can't wait to see the results this new project yields.
Glad to see you haven't lost the tuning bug. Can't wait to see the results this new project yields.