Research for new car
07-24-2006, 03:42 PM
#121
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Yeah I think I mentioned it above. I would love to test drive an SLK55 and yes I'd be able to purchase it if I liked. But there are non to be found. Most MB dealers told me that once they get in, they are gone within a few days. They can only be ordered and there is no such thing as a test drive in the case of the SLk55.
The two things I am wondering about the SLK55 are:
1. How will the 5 speed auto feel to me? Will that be enough gears?
2. Will there be an SLK 550 now that this engine makes more power and torque than the older 55 AMG engine?
I doubt the latter, and I am guessing there will be an SLK63 with something like 450HP or so, but that will create a huge voide between the 350 and the 63. Who knows...
The two things I am wondering about the SLK55 are:
1. How will the 5 speed auto feel to me? Will that be enough gears?
2. Will there be an SLK 550 now that this engine makes more power and torque than the older 55 AMG engine?
I doubt the latter, and I am guessing there will be an SLK63 with something like 450HP or so, but that will create a huge voide between the 350 and the 63. Who knows...
This answer that then:
Have It Your Way: Mercedes-AMG Unveils Customizing Studio - - Source: Edmunds.com
To inaugurate the new studio, it debuted the new SLK 55 AMG Black Series, a special coupe version of the eight-cylinder roadster.
The SLK 55 AMG Black Series will go on sale by the end of July at a price of $136,019, the company said. It will be equipped with an upgraded AMG 5.5-liter V8 that makes 400 horsepower and 383 pound-feet of torque. It will be outfitted with a high-strength carbon roof, 19-inch AMG forged wheels, AMG adjustable suspension and a high-performance composite brake system.
The performance house said it will also debut a limited batch of 100 units of the 582-hp CLK DTM AMG Cabriolet at a price of $352,180. Mercedes-AMG describes this vehicle as the "world's fastest open-top four-seater." It can sprint from zero to 62 mph in 4 seconds.
The SLK 55 AMG Black Series will go on sale by the end of July at a price of $136,019, the company said. It will be equipped with an upgraded AMG 5.5-liter V8 that makes 400 horsepower and 383 pound-feet of torque. It will be outfitted with a high-strength carbon roof, 19-inch AMG forged wheels, AMG adjustable suspension and a high-performance composite brake system.
The performance house said it will also debut a limited batch of 100 units of the 582-hp CLK DTM AMG Cabriolet at a price of $352,180. Mercedes-AMG describes this vehicle as the "world's fastest open-top four-seater." It can sprint from zero to 62 mph in 4 seconds.
07-24-2006, 04:08 PM
#123
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Originally Posted by gavriil
There will be a lot more negatives to say about the 650 than positives, let's leave it at that 
This should be interesting...
Did you drive the 650ci coupe or convertible ?
07-24-2006, 04:11 PM
#124
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I like the 650 coupe (style wise), but its overpriced and the interior is very small. Not to mention its a heavy car.
Not really what I would go for at $80k.
Only nice thing about it is that you can get SMG or a 6spd manual.
For the $, luxury coupe wise......I would get a CLK550 over it and keep the change.
Wouldn't even bother with the SC430, that car is a bathtub on wheels.
Not really what I would go for at $80k.
Only nice thing about it is that you can get SMG or a 6spd manual.
For the $, luxury coupe wise......I would get a CLK550 over it and keep the change.
Wouldn't even bother with the SC430, that car is a bathtub on wheels.
07-24-2006, 05:10 PM
#125
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Yeah I think I mentioned it above. I would love to test drive an SLK55 and yes I'd be able to purchase it if I liked. But there are non to be found. Most MB dealers told me that once they get in, they are gone within a few days. They can only be ordered and there is no such thing as a test drive in the case of the SLk55.
The two things I am wondering about the SLK55 are:
1. How will the 5 speed auto feel to me? Will that be enough gears?
2. Will there be an SLK 550 now that this engine makes more power and torque than the older 55 AMG engine?
I doubt the latter, and I am guessing there will be an SLK63 with something like 450HP or so, but that will create a huge voide between the 350 and the 63. Who knows...
The two things I am wondering about the SLK55 are:
1. How will the 5 speed auto feel to me? Will that be enough gears?
2. Will there be an SLK 550 now that this engine makes more power and torque than the older 55 AMG engine?
I doubt the latter, and I am guessing there will be an SLK63 with something like 450HP or so, but that will create a huge voide between the 350 and the 63. Who knows...
07-24-2006, 07:54 PM
#127
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Apparently it's at 1300 rpm.
I look forward to your review of one (if you do drive it). I placed my order today... production date is Sept 25th; leap of faith!
07-24-2006, 11:11 PM
#128
Senior Moderator
You are getting a 335 JakieO?????? Can I come by when you are doing the initial detailing on it???
I just want to check it out,.....and talk detailing haha.
I just want to check it out,.....and talk detailing haha.
Last edited by West6MT; 07-24-2006 at 11:15 PM.
07-25-2006, 03:19 AM
#129
Originally Posted by gavriil
Overall, very impressive to me. I don’t know why BMW gets all the praise when it comes to ride quality and I am not talking about the M3 only. I have driven many many BMW cars. Maybe only the 5 series comes very close to this experience I had with the CLK.
The typical feeling one gets behind, pretty much, every MB car is there. And that the "it drives like a tank" feeling. You know that structural rigidity is sky high but at the same time you realize that this is a heavy car. And it is heavy, which is one of its main disadvantages for me, other than its looks and its price.
However, you can play with this car. Mainly because of its powerful engine and ability to turn the ESP off. Even with it ON, it lets you slide and spin a little.
This engine is great folks. It's got power everywhere! Probably because of the switch to DOHC from SOHC from MB? Its torque peak of 391 pounds starts at 2800 and stays there up to 4800 rpm. And the tranny with the 7 ratios help show you all of its character. Again, unlike the LS2, it feels perfectly happy at above 5500 rpm. This drivetrain is totally a hot rod's drivetrain is what I thought of, both the times I drove the car.
The sound of the engine is a little quieter than I would have liked. The nuance is above average, but when even at WOT, this engine is too muted in my opinion. Again, a little too much Armani suite a little too less athletic character.
Overall, this car comes as close to what I want as any car, although a completely different car than the C6, it has different pros and cons.
The main cons of the CLK are three:
1. Price (the car I want costs about 68K including the tax)
2. Exterior looks
3. Too heavy for what I want (by about 250 pounds)
My wife's CLK drives nothing like a tank. In fact it handles horrible and ride is not smooth either.
Granted my wife's CLK is a cabrio. But the chassis is weak so are the structure. I also had issues with tops malfunctioning, tailight fell off, tons of shake and rattle from the top and the body.
Overall, I think W209 is a hideous and over price car.
07-25-2006, 07:29 AM
#130
Originally Posted by F900
Since you seem like a person who keeps there cars for a couple of years, and if you where considering the CLK, I'd push you on the 650i coupe... Or even a 645ci ( low miles 04-05 cert)
What I found out even thought its alot more car, the BMW 645ci surprisingly has very similar MPG to the Acura CL-S, and also Mx issues seem to more common with the CLK Vs the 6 series coupe.
What I found out even thought its alot more car, the BMW 645ci surprisingly has very similar MPG to the Acura CL-S, and also Mx issues seem to more common with the CLK Vs the 6 series coupe.
07-25-2006, 07:30 AM
#131
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Originally Posted by West6MT
You are getting a 335 JakieO?????? Can I come by when you are doing the initial detailing on it???
I just want to check it out,.....and talk detailing haha.
I just want to check it out,.....and talk detailing haha.
Well I have an order in on one that is conditional on pricing. If I do go through with it you can come help me prep it.
07-25-2006, 07:42 AM
#132
Originally Posted by gavriil
OK so two Fridays ago, I went to the MB dealer at Westmont, IL and tested a CLK550. I also tested the same car again, at the Barrington, IL dealer this past Friday and I will drive the cabrio next week once again at the Naperville, IL dealer.
There was an SLR outside the Westmont, IL dealer. Yes outside. I went there three times total (long story why) and the SLR was always outside! I mean the Porsche dealer, right across the street, had a Carrera GT there but at least it was inside the shop. Anyway...
While I am awaiting for the CLK to show up, I check out a bunch of cars in the shop, the new ML and R-Class, the SLK, again, only this time it's the 280, an S550 with 22 inch aftermarket wheels, a CLK55 AMG (cabrio of course), an SL65 even. In brief, they did a very good job with the interior of the ML this time. The R Class is interesting. Very long. It was obvious that the overall build quality of that thing is very high. Part of the new MB as far as quality. Not so much the interior but how it's built in general. The S' interior is BY FAR better than that of the 750i's. Tons of room inside the S! Front and aft. The SL65's interior is at best ridiculous considering the price of the car. MSRP of that car was 185K dollars! Many things felt like they'd fall off after a little rough feeling of their structural integrity, like the cover of the instrument panel for example. You can tell that this car is of the previous MB era of quality of manufacturing. The S, the R and even the M, show big signs of improvement.
Finally I was looking at the CLk55 AMG's MSRP at 85+K and was wondering who would buy this car at that price when the CLK550 cabrio makes more power and more torque. OK the AMG has other goodies but the price differential is substantial!
The CLK550 coupe arrives and I take a walk around the car for a few. I always like to do that as I see little things that I never notice in photos and reviews in general. Especially now when car reviews have become so non-thorough and short! By the way if any of you would like to start a new car magazine on line or not, ping me
So while I am going around the car I realize once again that one of the issues I have with this car is the fact that its exterior design is not aggressive enough. For me. And for the power under the hood and general hardware picked by MB. I mean...17 inch wheels?! With NO option for 18s?! At almost 400 horses and pounds of torque? Our CLS with 232 pounds (in reality less than 232) and you get 17s. Also: 245 rear tires? What is up with MB undertiring their cars lately? Even AMG cars. Of course using larger wheels as we all know is not all positive. I am sure the ride quality is dramatically enhanced with these wheels and also how much power these wheels "steal" from reaching the ground is another, but I think this car needs 18 inch wheels and possibly 265mm wide rear tires.
OK they are using the ala-AMG front mesh grill at the lower apron, but still. You can barely see that thing, especially if the car is black. And most CLKs are black for some reason. There are like 15 colors to chose from and most are metallic colors at extra cost!
Overall, I am not super enthused by the car's front, the car looks too much like my CL-S from the rear and so for me the best side of the CLK is its side profile. Especially because there are four windows total to lower and they are pillarless! The lack of a B pillar really helps the design of a coupe. Of course it adds to the cost and especially weight of the car but you cant have it all.
And on top of all that...non-aggressiveness...there is no dual exhaust. At least not dual in the sense where it ends at both sides of the rear bumper. They do say AMG on them, but they end at one side of the car. Only the CLK63 gets dual exhaust.
So I get in and I feel that overall, the interior is mostly par with the character and price of the car. I like the seats and they are not even the multicountoured seats that come as an option for another thousand dollars and give you the ability to adjust the "wings" of the seats. You control how much or not, they'd hug your body in theory. Plus they add seven micro fans to suck humid air off your back and ass. In theory these seats sound very promising.
There are some parts of the interior that are average (like for example the feeling one gets when they open the glove box which feels like it's ready to come off and does not close easily and decisively), but overall the quality of the materials is above average. The design is also above average to me.
The car I drove was equipped with the Premium Package 2 (of 3). It includes Package 1 (6 CD Changer with MP3, Harman Kardon Logic7 digital surround sound system, UHI prewiring for hands free communication system, Sunroof, SIRIUS satellite radio)
and adds:
Bi-Xenon headlamps with Active Illumination, Heated headlamp washers (very good for where I live), Heated Washer System (also very good for where I live), Fog lamps.
I am not crazy about wood in a car's interior very much. I prefer good high quality soft materials, like alcantara and others. So I was happy to see that this car lacked the optional wooden steering wheel, which costs extra...money. The only issue with the steering wheel? It's not sporty looking enough, mostly because it's got one too many interior support joints. I like three, like BMW mostly uses. What is it with MB persisting with four-jointed steering wheels, I do not understand. The only MB car I have seen with a three spoked steering wheel is the SLK.
I also am not crazy about the steering wheels buttons and their shape. They look like they are afterthought parts, however they are very ergonomic.
Another issue is the (right) hand rest. It does not double as storage space (like in the case of our CLS and most cars these days). You just slide a cover to uncover two cup holders. AND! In the case of last year's model, 2006, it looks like the hand rest does open to unveil something
This photo below is from a 2006 E Class car which looks like the 2007 CLK inherited the design:
So I sit down and I almost get startled because I feel that someone is sitting in the back seats as I hear noise coming from behind me. Oh! It's the pneumatic levers that push the seatbelt forward and basically next to my left ear so it's easier for me to stretch, reach and grab to buckle up. Phew! I guess people that buy MBs cannot stretch far enough, lol.
BTW very little room in the glovebox mainly due to the 6-CD Changer which obviously is not in-dash. So this MB is equipped with a total of 7 CD player, because you can add one in-dash behind the LCD screen, where you'd put the DVD Navigation disk if so equipped.
Photo above is of 2006 model.
So I start the engine (by turning the metal-less key) and I can tell right away there is a V8 under there. It does not sound as pronounced as a GTO's for example at idle, but I can tell the nuance of a V8 immediately. Very characteristic.
The sales guy tries to explain to me how the new 7G Tronic tranny works. It has many different modes, but basically, one can use the wings behind the steering wheel to achieve manual mode very quickly (from D mode) or the shifter to do the same. There is a button next to the shifter which changes something from C (for Comfort) to S (for Sport). I am saying something because the former dealer told me it's the tranny mapping and the latter it's the suspension. Both may be wrong cos I felt no difference on anything.
Overall this tranny is GREAT! For me, it may be the perfect compromise between manual and auto, because:
1. It's super quick.
2. It's super smooth
3. There is no clutch
4. It has 7 ratios which means that there are enough short gear ratios for being aggressive but also enough long to be quiet and economic with gas.
Of course it's not a manual, but it's not the typical auto tranny either, like the one in our CL-S which is the main reason I want a new car!
We start moving and while in second gear, gas pedal at 85% and the car JUMPS forward. I was surprised by the torque in this thing. It was not the unbelievable flow of endless torque of the LS2 but it was similar and in a much more refined way. It should be after as this is an MB car and it's a lot heavier than the C6. However, this was more proof of me needing a V8 for my next car and the larger it is, the better.
Now, what about the ride quality? Well, I think the CLK comes as close to what I want from that perspective as any car I have driven. We went over the same roads I drove the Porsche cars and the M3. Over the horizontal bumps where the M3 with the 19s was becoming VERY upset, the CLK was telling me "there are some bumps here which you don’t wonna feel and I will filter them for you, but just so you know, there are some bumps here". Very refined while still communicative. The CLK says, I am an athlete with an Armani suite and it's not proper for me to show to my passengers what's really on the road. It's like it speaks British English with a German accent. The M3 speaks slang and only slang and it will tell you how it is!
There is almost nothing coming in when going over patchy pavement. Broken pavement is almost completely filtered.
However, when you go over smooth but uneven pavement (when the road changes height that is), it tells you exactly what's happening. And that's where you need the communication part because you feel in control. It does not float at all!
Again, this suspension is not soft! BTW, the 550 as a default gets the sport suspension package which is an option with the 350 car.
Overall, very impressive to me. I don’t know why BMW gets all the praise when it comes to ride quality and I am not talking about the M3 only. I have driven many many BMW cars. Maybe only the 5 series comes very close to this experience I had with the CLK.
The typical feeling one gets behind, pretty much, every MB car is there. And that the "it drives like a tank" feeling. You know that structural rigidity is sky high but at the same time you realize that this is a heavy car. And it is heavy, which is one of its main disadvantages for me, other than its looks and its price.
However, you can play with this car. Mainly because of its powerful engine and ability to turn the ESP off. Even with it ON, it lets you slide and spin a little.
This engine is great folks. It's got power everywhere! Probably because of the switch to DOHC from SOHC from MB? Its torque peak of 391 pounds starts at 2800 and stays there up to 4800 rpm. And the tranny with the 7 ratios help show you all of its character. Again, unlike the LS2, it feels perfectly happy at above 5500 rpm. This drivetrain is totally a hot rod's drivetrain is what I thought of, both the times I drove the car.
The sound of the engine is a little quieter than I would have liked. The nuance is above average, but when even at WOT, this engine is too muted in my opinion. Again, a little too much Armani suite a little too less athletic character.
Overall, this car comes as close to what I want as any car, although a completely different car than the C6, it has different pros and cons.
The main cons of the CLK are three:
1. Price (the car I want costs about 68K including the tax)
2. Exterior looks
3. Too heavy for what I want (by about 250 pounds)
And what I should add to the above is the fact that the more I talk to dealers over the phone, the more I realize that this car will be very difficult to locate optioned like I want it with the colors I want unless if order one which takes 3 months to arrive. Plus the fact that they JUST are now arriving, does not help my negotiating power as far as price. Unlike the C6 which you find them by the dozens, although negotiating for one may be as hard as that of the CLK. I did get the impression that MB dealers will negotiate for the CLK a little bit. Maybe 1000 bucks.
There was an SLR outside the Westmont, IL dealer. Yes outside. I went there three times total (long story why) and the SLR was always outside! I mean the Porsche dealer, right across the street, had a Carrera GT there but at least it was inside the shop. Anyway...
While I am awaiting for the CLK to show up, I check out a bunch of cars in the shop, the new ML and R-Class, the SLK, again, only this time it's the 280, an S550 with 22 inch aftermarket wheels, a CLK55 AMG (cabrio of course), an SL65 even. In brief, they did a very good job with the interior of the ML this time. The R Class is interesting. Very long. It was obvious that the overall build quality of that thing is very high. Part of the new MB as far as quality. Not so much the interior but how it's built in general. The S' interior is BY FAR better than that of the 750i's. Tons of room inside the S! Front and aft. The SL65's interior is at best ridiculous considering the price of the car. MSRP of that car was 185K dollars! Many things felt like they'd fall off after a little rough feeling of their structural integrity, like the cover of the instrument panel for example. You can tell that this car is of the previous MB era of quality of manufacturing. The S, the R and even the M, show big signs of improvement.
Finally I was looking at the CLk55 AMG's MSRP at 85+K and was wondering who would buy this car at that price when the CLK550 cabrio makes more power and more torque. OK the AMG has other goodies but the price differential is substantial!
The CLK550 coupe arrives and I take a walk around the car for a few. I always like to do that as I see little things that I never notice in photos and reviews in general. Especially now when car reviews have become so non-thorough and short! By the way if any of you would like to start a new car magazine on line or not, ping me
So while I am going around the car I realize once again that one of the issues I have with this car is the fact that its exterior design is not aggressive enough. For me. And for the power under the hood and general hardware picked by MB. I mean...17 inch wheels?! With NO option for 18s?! At almost 400 horses and pounds of torque? Our CLS with 232 pounds (in reality less than 232) and you get 17s. Also: 245 rear tires? What is up with MB undertiring their cars lately? Even AMG cars. Of course using larger wheels as we all know is not all positive. I am sure the ride quality is dramatically enhanced with these wheels and also how much power these wheels "steal" from reaching the ground is another, but I think this car needs 18 inch wheels and possibly 265mm wide rear tires.
OK they are using the ala-AMG front mesh grill at the lower apron, but still. You can barely see that thing, especially if the car is black. And most CLKs are black for some reason. There are like 15 colors to chose from and most are metallic colors at extra cost!
Overall, I am not super enthused by the car's front, the car looks too much like my CL-S from the rear and so for me the best side of the CLK is its side profile. Especially because there are four windows total to lower and they are pillarless! The lack of a B pillar really helps the design of a coupe. Of course it adds to the cost and especially weight of the car but you cant have it all.
And on top of all that...non-aggressiveness...there is no dual exhaust. At least not dual in the sense where it ends at both sides of the rear bumper. They do say AMG on them, but they end at one side of the car. Only the CLK63 gets dual exhaust.
So I get in and I feel that overall, the interior is mostly par with the character and price of the car. I like the seats and they are not even the multicountoured seats that come as an option for another thousand dollars and give you the ability to adjust the "wings" of the seats. You control how much or not, they'd hug your body in theory. Plus they add seven micro fans to suck humid air off your back and ass. In theory these seats sound very promising.
There are some parts of the interior that are average (like for example the feeling one gets when they open the glove box which feels like it's ready to come off and does not close easily and decisively), but overall the quality of the materials is above average. The design is also above average to me.
The car I drove was equipped with the Premium Package 2 (of 3). It includes Package 1 (6 CD Changer with MP3, Harman Kardon Logic7 digital surround sound system, UHI prewiring for hands free communication system, Sunroof, SIRIUS satellite radio)
and adds:
Bi-Xenon headlamps with Active Illumination, Heated headlamp washers (very good for where I live), Heated Washer System (also very good for where I live), Fog lamps.
I am not crazy about wood in a car's interior very much. I prefer good high quality soft materials, like alcantara and others. So I was happy to see that this car lacked the optional wooden steering wheel, which costs extra...money. The only issue with the steering wheel? It's not sporty looking enough, mostly because it's got one too many interior support joints. I like three, like BMW mostly uses. What is it with MB persisting with four-jointed steering wheels, I do not understand. The only MB car I have seen with a three spoked steering wheel is the SLK.
I also am not crazy about the steering wheels buttons and their shape. They look like they are afterthought parts, however they are very ergonomic.
Another issue is the (right) hand rest. It does not double as storage space (like in the case of our CLS and most cars these days). You just slide a cover to uncover two cup holders. AND! In the case of last year's model, 2006, it looks like the hand rest does open to unveil something
This photo below is from a 2006 E Class car which looks like the 2007 CLK inherited the design:
So I sit down and I almost get startled because I feel that someone is sitting in the back seats as I hear noise coming from behind me. Oh! It's the pneumatic levers that push the seatbelt forward and basically next to my left ear so it's easier for me to stretch, reach and grab to buckle up. Phew! I guess people that buy MBs cannot stretch far enough, lol.
BTW very little room in the glovebox mainly due to the 6-CD Changer which obviously is not in-dash. So this MB is equipped with a total of 7 CD player, because you can add one in-dash behind the LCD screen, where you'd put the DVD Navigation disk if so equipped.
Photo above is of 2006 model.
So I start the engine (by turning the metal-less key) and I can tell right away there is a V8 under there. It does not sound as pronounced as a GTO's for example at idle, but I can tell the nuance of a V8 immediately. Very characteristic.
The sales guy tries to explain to me how the new 7G Tronic tranny works. It has many different modes, but basically, one can use the wings behind the steering wheel to achieve manual mode very quickly (from D mode) or the shifter to do the same. There is a button next to the shifter which changes something from C (for Comfort) to S (for Sport). I am saying something because the former dealer told me it's the tranny mapping and the latter it's the suspension. Both may be wrong cos I felt no difference on anything.
Overall this tranny is GREAT! For me, it may be the perfect compromise between manual and auto, because:
1. It's super quick.
2. It's super smooth
3. There is no clutch
4. It has 7 ratios which means that there are enough short gear ratios for being aggressive but also enough long to be quiet and economic with gas.
Of course it's not a manual, but it's not the typical auto tranny either, like the one in our CL-S which is the main reason I want a new car!
We start moving and while in second gear, gas pedal at 85% and the car JUMPS forward. I was surprised by the torque in this thing. It was not the unbelievable flow of endless torque of the LS2 but it was similar and in a much more refined way. It should be after as this is an MB car and it's a lot heavier than the C6. However, this was more proof of me needing a V8 for my next car and the larger it is, the better.
Now, what about the ride quality? Well, I think the CLK comes as close to what I want from that perspective as any car I have driven. We went over the same roads I drove the Porsche cars and the M3. Over the horizontal bumps where the M3 with the 19s was becoming VERY upset, the CLK was telling me "there are some bumps here which you don’t wonna feel and I will filter them for you, but just so you know, there are some bumps here". Very refined while still communicative. The CLK says, I am an athlete with an Armani suite and it's not proper for me to show to my passengers what's really on the road. It's like it speaks British English with a German accent. The M3 speaks slang and only slang and it will tell you how it is!
There is almost nothing coming in when going over patchy pavement. Broken pavement is almost completely filtered.
However, when you go over smooth but uneven pavement (when the road changes height that is), it tells you exactly what's happening. And that's where you need the communication part because you feel in control. It does not float at all!
Again, this suspension is not soft! BTW, the 550 as a default gets the sport suspension package which is an option with the 350 car.
Overall, very impressive to me. I don’t know why BMW gets all the praise when it comes to ride quality and I am not talking about the M3 only. I have driven many many BMW cars. Maybe only the 5 series comes very close to this experience I had with the CLK.
The typical feeling one gets behind, pretty much, every MB car is there. And that the "it drives like a tank" feeling. You know that structural rigidity is sky high but at the same time you realize that this is a heavy car. And it is heavy, which is one of its main disadvantages for me, other than its looks and its price.
However, you can play with this car. Mainly because of its powerful engine and ability to turn the ESP off. Even with it ON, it lets you slide and spin a little.
This engine is great folks. It's got power everywhere! Probably because of the switch to DOHC from SOHC from MB? Its torque peak of 391 pounds starts at 2800 and stays there up to 4800 rpm. And the tranny with the 7 ratios help show you all of its character. Again, unlike the LS2, it feels perfectly happy at above 5500 rpm. This drivetrain is totally a hot rod's drivetrain is what I thought of, both the times I drove the car.
The sound of the engine is a little quieter than I would have liked. The nuance is above average, but when even at WOT, this engine is too muted in my opinion. Again, a little too much Armani suite a little too less athletic character.
Overall, this car comes as close to what I want as any car, although a completely different car than the C6, it has different pros and cons.
The main cons of the CLK are three:
1. Price (the car I want costs about 68K including the tax)
2. Exterior looks
3. Too heavy for what I want (by about 250 pounds)
And what I should add to the above is the fact that the more I talk to dealers over the phone, the more I realize that this car will be very difficult to locate optioned like I want it with the colors I want unless if order one which takes 3 months to arrive. Plus the fact that they JUST are now arriving, does not help my negotiating power as far as price. Unlike the C6 which you find them by the dozens, although negotiating for one may be as hard as that of the CLK. I did get the impression that MB dealers will negotiate for the CLK a little bit. Maybe 1000 bucks.
07-25-2006, 07:44 AM
#133
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Originally Posted by ludachrisvt
Are you crazy? The 6 series gets TERRIBLE gas mileage.
07-25-2006, 09:18 AM
#134
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Originally Posted by ludachrisvt
Are you crazy? The 6 series gets TERRIBLE gas mileage.
Well the M6 does.....CITY 12 HWY 18
But the 645Ci Coupe does about 26-27Mpg on the highway 18-20 in city, thats not bad for a large coupe with 325hp.
650Ci does about 25mpg on the highway,
Which is why I said the BMW 645Ci is very similar to the Acura CLS with gas mileage .
07-25-2006, 12:50 PM
#135
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Originally Posted by JackieO
I think they revised that - not that there is much difference; 291 @ 1300, 300 @1400. I don't think anyone will notice.
I look forward to your review of one (if you do drive it). I placed my order today... production date is Sept 25th; leap of faith!
I look forward to your review of one (if you do drive it). I placed my order today... production date is Sept 25th; leap of faith!
Thanks for the prod date info. I was wondering when will they be out.
07-25-2006, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by chiawei
Are u sure you drove the CLK?
My wife's CLK drives nothing like a tank. In fact it handles horrible and ride is not smooth either.
Granted my wife's CLK is a cabrio. But the chassis is weak so are the structure. I also had issues with tops malfunctioning, tailight fell off, tons of shake and rattle from the top and the body.
Overall, I think W209 is a hideous and over price car.
My wife's CLK drives nothing like a tank. In fact it handles horrible and ride is not smooth either.
Granted my wife's CLK is a cabrio. But the chassis is weak so are the structure. I also had issues with tops malfunctioning, tailight fell off, tons of shake and rattle from the top and the body.
Overall, I think W209 is a hideous and over price car.
I am sure the cabrio would be different with regard to handling and ride quality. But which CLK is it? Year and engine?
Also, I have read of a number of issues with the CLK no doubt, but MB promises that their latest cars are a lot more reliable.
07-25-2006, 12:54 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by ludachrisvt
On my E the C and S DEFINATELY make a difference. In S the airmatic suspension sits lower at speed and the car shifts much more aggressively (for lack of a better phrase).
07-25-2006, 02:37 PM
#138
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by gavriil
The main cons of (insert female name here) are three:
1. Price (the woman I want costs about 68K including the tax)
2. Exterior looks
3. Too heavy for what I want (by about 250 pounds)
1. Price (the woman I want costs about 68K including the tax)
2. Exterior looks
3. Too heavy for what I want (by about 250 pounds)
The above sounds like me shopping for a woman
Great reviews Gav! Keep it up.
07-25-2006, 03:15 PM
#141
Originally Posted by gavriil
I am sure the cabrio would be different with regard to handling and ride quality. But which CLK is it? Year and engine?
Also, I have read of a number of issues with the CLK no doubt, but MB promises that their latest cars are a lot more reliable.
Also, I have read of a number of issues with the CLK no doubt, but MB promises that their latest cars are a lot more reliable.
I don't think cabrio has effect on handling and ride quality (since my wife's car did comes with the AMG pkg). (I.E. the same 17" wheels, tires, and suspension pkg as those on the CLK500 and i believe CLK550).
I can understand the rattles from the top and weaken structure due to the cabrio. But a lot of issue that i had with the CLK are general poor workmanship.
This car fell apart very quickly. I even had the rear sway disconnect itself.
07-25-2006, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chungkopi
my gut feeling...
gav will buy C6 within 3-4 weeks!
and of course the gav will have his new tag, "BDASSGAV"
gav will buy C6 within 3-4 weeks!
and of course the gav will have his new tag, "BDASSGAV"
LOL
07-25-2006, 04:46 PM
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In brief about my test of the SC430:
I test drove it right after the CLK550 (first CLK550 test drive two Fridays ago). That sometimes makes a difference in how a car feels.
First impression, very beautiful and extremely qualitative interior! The leather is very high quality, especially the one used around the dashboard. Very nice colors, in general, one can tell, that there was a ton of attention to detail paid by the Lexus engineers on that regard.
The back seats are simply...not seats. There is less room back there than in a 911, hence that space can be used as space for...stuff. Not people. Maybe two small dogs.
The trunk space is minimal even with the top up. With it down, it's almost non existent.
From the outside, the car still looks good, but the front lights always made me feel this is a chick car. Otherwise I like the rear design a lot. It has stood the test of time well overall.
The top takes a while to close and even more than a while to open. I also had to hold a button while the operation lasted, not just push it once. So for about 30 seconds, I had to be pushing the button for the top to operate. Not very convenient.
I am guessing that this car is very close at the end of its life. One can tell about that even from the way Lexus is pricing the car. There are virtually NO options. Even the NAV is standard. There are few items that cost 100 dollars each or so. So this car comes one way as far as price, at around 67K plus tax.
So I sit in and the seat feels very comfortable immediately. It's extremely easy to find a very comfortable position in this car since the steering wheel is power adjustable with regard to all motions (except left/right). So with regard to interior room, this is a very comfortable car for two people with no, or very little luggage.
The steering wheel is of moderate accuracy. The brakes are OK, nothing special.
Going deeper with the bad:
The gas pedal is almost inaccurate. Very numb with respect to sensitivity.
The auto tranny shifts, super slow with obvious lag. It just got a new auto tranny the rep said so I am guessing this is the same super slow tranny I tested in the IS350 which completely ruined the engine.
The worst of all? The engine of this car. Its torque, or lack thereof. It's just not there. Lexus claims 317 pounds of torque, but I just don’t see where those pounds hid, cos they were not there during my test. Of course, I could have been spoiled and biased from the test drive of the CLK550 minutes before, but still.
If I am not mistaken Lexus used to rate this car at 300HP last year, but currently it shows 288 in the manual. Probably having to do with the new way of rating HP by SAE. Lexus, other than a 0-60 time, it also gives a 1/4 mile time for this car in their manual. The first time I see a 1/4 mile claim in a automobile's manual. I believe the times were 5.8 for the 60 and 14.4 or 14.5 for the 1/4 mile. Overall this car felt slower than my CLS, with a small exception at around the 2500-3000 rpm span.
Overall, this engine combined with this tranny give a non sporty sensation to the overall driving experience, not even a GT character is exposed. This car is...a too door, two seater Buick, that's what it is
About the suspension. This is a very softly sprung vehicle, in brief. It does not float but it's soft. However, this suspension absorbs everything! By far the most comfortable suspension from all cars I've driven. The opposite of the Cayman S' but it does not make the car a boat (with such a short wheelbase it would have to try to do so), but it's not sporty either.
The rep actually told me that the GS430 has a sportier character! I almost asked him "why?". Meaning, why would Lexus do that? The GS is the sedan and this is their...supposedly...sports coupe, hence SC.
So the SC430 is for cruising during a nice sunny day with the top down, or converting the car to a coupe without the cons of a soft top (noise, safety, etc).
I am guessing that if this body survives another year, it will probably receive the new and larger V8 by Lexus, the 4.6L we will first see in the new LS sedan.
Overall this is NOT the car for me without a doubt.
I test drove it right after the CLK550 (first CLK550 test drive two Fridays ago). That sometimes makes a difference in how a car feels.
First impression, very beautiful and extremely qualitative interior! The leather is very high quality, especially the one used around the dashboard. Very nice colors, in general, one can tell, that there was a ton of attention to detail paid by the Lexus engineers on that regard.
The back seats are simply...not seats. There is less room back there than in a 911, hence that space can be used as space for...stuff. Not people. Maybe two small dogs.
The trunk space is minimal even with the top up. With it down, it's almost non existent.
From the outside, the car still looks good, but the front lights always made me feel this is a chick car. Otherwise I like the rear design a lot. It has stood the test of time well overall.
The top takes a while to close and even more than a while to open. I also had to hold a button while the operation lasted, not just push it once. So for about 30 seconds, I had to be pushing the button for the top to operate. Not very convenient.
I am guessing that this car is very close at the end of its life. One can tell about that even from the way Lexus is pricing the car. There are virtually NO options. Even the NAV is standard. There are few items that cost 100 dollars each or so. So this car comes one way as far as price, at around 67K plus tax.
So I sit in and the seat feels very comfortable immediately. It's extremely easy to find a very comfortable position in this car since the steering wheel is power adjustable with regard to all motions (except left/right). So with regard to interior room, this is a very comfortable car for two people with no, or very little luggage.
The steering wheel is of moderate accuracy. The brakes are OK, nothing special.
Going deeper with the bad:
The gas pedal is almost inaccurate. Very numb with respect to sensitivity.
The auto tranny shifts, super slow with obvious lag. It just got a new auto tranny the rep said so I am guessing this is the same super slow tranny I tested in the IS350 which completely ruined the engine.
The worst of all? The engine of this car. Its torque, or lack thereof. It's just not there. Lexus claims 317 pounds of torque, but I just don’t see where those pounds hid, cos they were not there during my test. Of course, I could have been spoiled and biased from the test drive of the CLK550 minutes before, but still.
If I am not mistaken Lexus used to rate this car at 300HP last year, but currently it shows 288 in the manual. Probably having to do with the new way of rating HP by SAE. Lexus, other than a 0-60 time, it also gives a 1/4 mile time for this car in their manual. The first time I see a 1/4 mile claim in a automobile's manual. I believe the times were 5.8 for the 60 and 14.4 or 14.5 for the 1/4 mile. Overall this car felt slower than my CLS, with a small exception at around the 2500-3000 rpm span.
Overall, this engine combined with this tranny give a non sporty sensation to the overall driving experience, not even a GT character is exposed. This car is...a too door, two seater Buick, that's what it is
About the suspension. This is a very softly sprung vehicle, in brief. It does not float but it's soft. However, this suspension absorbs everything! By far the most comfortable suspension from all cars I've driven. The opposite of the Cayman S' but it does not make the car a boat (with such a short wheelbase it would have to try to do so), but it's not sporty either.
The rep actually told me that the GS430 has a sportier character! I almost asked him "why?". Meaning, why would Lexus do that? The GS is the sedan and this is their...supposedly...sports coupe, hence SC.
So the SC430 is for cruising during a nice sunny day with the top down, or converting the car to a coupe without the cons of a soft top (noise, safety, etc).
I am guessing that if this body survives another year, it will probably receive the new and larger V8 by Lexus, the 4.6L we will first see in the new LS sedan.
Overall this is NOT the car for me without a doubt.
07-25-2006, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
In brief about my test of the SC430:
I test drove it right after the CLK550 (first CLK550 test drive two Fridays ago). That sometimes makes a difference in how a car feels.
First impression, very beautiful and extremely qualitative interior! The leather is very high quality, especially the one used around the dashboard. Very nice colors, in general, one can tell, that there was a ton of attention to detail paid by the Lexus engineers on that regard.
The back seats are simply...not seats. There is less room back there than in a 911, hence that space can be used as space for...stuff. Not people. Maybe two small dogs.
The trunk space is minimal even with the top up. With it down, it's almost non existent.
From the outside, the car still looks good, but the front lights always made me feel this is a chick car. Otherwise I like the rear design a lot. It has stood the test of time well overall.
The top takes a while to close and even more than a while to open. I also had to hold a button while the operation lasted, not just push it once. So for about 30 seconds, I had to be pushing the button for the top to operate. Not very convenient.
I am guessing that this car is very close at the end of its life. One can tell about that even from the way Lexus is pricing the car. There are virtually NO options. Even the NAV is standard. There are few items that cost 100 dollars each or so. So this car comes one way as far as price, at around 67K plus tax.
So I sit in and the seat feels very comfortable immediately. It's extremely easy to find a very comfortable position in this car since the steering wheel is power adjustable with regard to all motions (except left/right). So with regard to interior room, this is a very comfortable car for two people with no, or very little luggage.
The steering wheel is of moderate accuracy. The brakes are OK, nothing special.
Going deeper with the bad:
The gas pedal is almost inaccurate. Very numb with respect to sensitivity.
The auto tranny shifts, super slow with obvious lag. It just got a new auto tranny the rep said so I am guessing this is the same super slow tranny I tested in the IS350 which completely ruined the engine.
The worst of all? The engine of this car. Its torque, or lack thereof. It's just not there. Lexus claims 317 pounds of torque, but I just don’t see where those pounds hid, cos they were not there during my test. Of course, I could have been spoiled and biased from the test drive of the CLK550 minutes before, but still.
If I am not mistaken Lexus used to rate this car at 300HP last year, but currently it shows 288 in the manual. Probably having to do with the new way of rating HP by SAE. Lexus, other than a 0-60 time, it also gives a 1/4 mile time for this car in their manual. The first time I see a 1/4 mile claim in a automobile's manual. I believe the times were 5.8 for the 60 and 14.4 or 14.5 for the 1/4 mile. Overall this car felt slower than my CLS, with a small exception at around the 2500-3000 rpm span.
Overall, this engine combined with this tranny give a non sporty sensation to the overall driving experience, not even a GT character is exposed. This car is...a too door, two seater Buick, that's what it is
About the suspension. This is a very softly sprung vehicle, in brief. It does not float but it's soft. However, this suspension absorbs everything! By far the most comfortable suspension from all cars I've driven. The opposite of the Cayman S' but it does not make the car a boat (with such a short wheelbase it would have to try to do so), but it's not sporty either.
The rep actually told me that the GS430 has a sportier character! I almost asked him "why?". Meaning, why would Lexus do that? The GS is the sedan and this is their...supposedly...sports coupe, hence SC.
So the SC430 is for cruising during a nice sunny day with the top down, or converting the car to a coupe without the cons of a soft top (noise, safety, etc).
I am guessing that if this body survives another year, it will probably receive the new and larger V8 by Lexus, the 4.6L we will first see in the new LS sedan.
Overall this is NOT the car for me without a doubt.
I test drove it right after the CLK550 (first CLK550 test drive two Fridays ago). That sometimes makes a difference in how a car feels.
First impression, very beautiful and extremely qualitative interior! The leather is very high quality, especially the one used around the dashboard. Very nice colors, in general, one can tell, that there was a ton of attention to detail paid by the Lexus engineers on that regard.
The back seats are simply...not seats. There is less room back there than in a 911, hence that space can be used as space for...stuff. Not people. Maybe two small dogs.
The trunk space is minimal even with the top up. With it down, it's almost non existent.
From the outside, the car still looks good, but the front lights always made me feel this is a chick car. Otherwise I like the rear design a lot. It has stood the test of time well overall.
The top takes a while to close and even more than a while to open. I also had to hold a button while the operation lasted, not just push it once. So for about 30 seconds, I had to be pushing the button for the top to operate. Not very convenient.
I am guessing that this car is very close at the end of its life. One can tell about that even from the way Lexus is pricing the car. There are virtually NO options. Even the NAV is standard. There are few items that cost 100 dollars each or so. So this car comes one way as far as price, at around 67K plus tax.
So I sit in and the seat feels very comfortable immediately. It's extremely easy to find a very comfortable position in this car since the steering wheel is power adjustable with regard to all motions (except left/right). So with regard to interior room, this is a very comfortable car for two people with no, or very little luggage.
The steering wheel is of moderate accuracy. The brakes are OK, nothing special.
Going deeper with the bad:
The gas pedal is almost inaccurate. Very numb with respect to sensitivity.
The auto tranny shifts, super slow with obvious lag. It just got a new auto tranny the rep said so I am guessing this is the same super slow tranny I tested in the IS350 which completely ruined the engine.
The worst of all? The engine of this car. Its torque, or lack thereof. It's just not there. Lexus claims 317 pounds of torque, but I just don’t see where those pounds hid, cos they were not there during my test. Of course, I could have been spoiled and biased from the test drive of the CLK550 minutes before, but still.
If I am not mistaken Lexus used to rate this car at 300HP last year, but currently it shows 288 in the manual. Probably having to do with the new way of rating HP by SAE. Lexus, other than a 0-60 time, it also gives a 1/4 mile time for this car in their manual. The first time I see a 1/4 mile claim in a automobile's manual. I believe the times were 5.8 for the 60 and 14.4 or 14.5 for the 1/4 mile. Overall this car felt slower than my CLS, with a small exception at around the 2500-3000 rpm span.
Overall, this engine combined with this tranny give a non sporty sensation to the overall driving experience, not even a GT character is exposed. This car is...a too door, two seater Buick, that's what it is
About the suspension. This is a very softly sprung vehicle, in brief. It does not float but it's soft. However, this suspension absorbs everything! By far the most comfortable suspension from all cars I've driven. The opposite of the Cayman S' but it does not make the car a boat (with such a short wheelbase it would have to try to do so), but it's not sporty either.
The rep actually told me that the GS430 has a sportier character! I almost asked him "why?". Meaning, why would Lexus do that? The GS is the sedan and this is their...supposedly...sports coupe, hence SC.
So the SC430 is for cruising during a nice sunny day with the top down, or converting the car to a coupe without the cons of a soft top (noise, safety, etc).
I am guessing that if this body survives another year, it will probably receive the new and larger V8 by Lexus, the 4.6L we will first see in the new LS sedan.
Overall this is NOT the car for me without a doubt.
07-25-2006, 04:54 PM
#148
Senior Moderator
As an addendum to the SC430, I'm also glad that gav's not getting it cuz I think it looks like a sperm whale...
07-25-2006, 05:31 PM
#151
The sizzle in the Steak
Originally Posted by GIBSON6594
It is, or was, the most reliable car ever made
07-25-2006, 05:35 PM
#152
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Originally Posted by West6MT
I forgot the SLK can have a 6-speed too (so 6-speed manual/7-speed automatic).
Yeah, only in the case of the 350 or the 280 though. I drove the 6 speed manual 350 and wrote about it a few months back.
07-25-2006, 07:23 PM
#154
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Originally Posted by gavriil
In brief about my test of the SC430:
Overall this is NOT the car for me without a doubt.
Overall this is NOT the car for me without a doubt.
Next!!!
07-25-2006, 10:06 PM
#155
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Spermwhale 
I never liked the looks of the sc430 but ive ridden and driven a couple different ones and they are just so damn comfortable, power was decent but it basically felt like my car (03 ES300) with power but still the same slllloooww tranny.
Can't wait to see what the next SC is like
I never liked the looks of the sc430 but ive ridden and driven a couple different ones and they are just so damn comfortable, power was decent but it basically felt like my car (03 ES300) with power but still the same slllloooww tranny.
Can't wait to see what the next SC is like
07-25-2006, 10:35 PM
#156
hail to the victors
Originally Posted by Minch00
Can you fix the typo in the thread title..............ResEarch Gav 
Great reviews so far. I just wish I had the capacity to test these cars, much less consider buying them.
Great reviews so far. I just wish I had the capacity to test these cars, much less consider buying them.
i did notice it, but i kept quiet because i thought RESARCH was some kinds of fancy words only gav use.
07-26-2006, 12:21 PM
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After driving the CLK550 for the second time, I told the rep at Barrington that the 650i coupe is also on my list. He said, I only have a cabrio on the lot. I said fine.
I could not believe the car's MSRP. This was an 88K car! I did not realize 650s were so expensive. Later I realized that the coupe starts at 71K and change!
It was raining when we got out, so there was no chance for the (blue) top to come down.
I also did not have a chance to study the car from the outside, however we all have seen the 6 series several times by now. I am not very excited about its looks at all. I have sat in a 6 before, in the Chicago auto show and I do remember how small the space for the rear passengers is. This was confirmed once again last week. There is very minimal space back there, it will be tight even for 4th graders, especially with respect to leg room.
I sit in the car and the seats are fine. The overall impression by the 6's interior is hard to compare to the CLK's because it's so different. They have a completely different approach and philosophy, MB and BMW in this category at least. The 6 gave me the impression that used higher quality materials and the design was sportier while the CLK's more formal.
The big problem with the 6's interior is ergonomics. I mean it took us the whole test drive to figure out how exactly to turn on the wipers and set the right sensitivity with the rain sensitive system! The rep was clueless and after tinkering with the thing for minutes, he still did not get, I was the one that had to figure it out. We all know the issues with iDrive, no need to explain. The known with all BMWs double-"click" (unlatch) of the door latch for it to unlock and open and the absence of a simple button to unlock and lock, is another example.
I am not sure if you ever driven a Pontiac Grand Prix. This is what this ergonomics philosophy reminded me of. In the Grand Prix, as with certain BMWs the more time goes by, what they have been trying to do is, redefine all controls and control operations in the interior for some reason. It is obvious that this company is leaning towards being run by engineers and not by marketing and business folks in general. Hence the styling issues and the interior ergonomics issues we see.
I know exactly how engineers think, I work for a software company. It does not matter what they make, they think the same way. In the case of the car for example, they will see a set of controls for the radio and say...well...they are fine, but how can we devise a system that will minimize the number of controls from a total of six, to one? Me as a half tech half business guy, I ask, WHY THE HELL DO YOU HAVE TO DO THAT? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE CONTROLS THERE? If I worked at BMW, I'd loose the argument and later be laid off since as I said it's clear this is a company ran by engineers.
Another great example with many European cars now and with the 6, is the way one controls the indicators lights. I mean talk about trying to reinvent the wheel! THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE WHEEL FOLKS, IT'S ROUND AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE ROUND, LEAVE IT ALONE, THERE ARE A MILLION OTHER THINGS WE CAN IMPROVE ON, like let's say the freaking one million gazillion pounds this German Camaro weighs, for example! So what they did was they went and said, instead of pushing the lever up or down and then HAVING TO RETURN IT TO NEUTRAL (after the time of the need to indicate has passed), let's add a secondary control on the lever for temporary indicating which will last for say....four indications!
The 6 is full of ergonomic...how should I put it?....issues... like these.
When I got into the Grand Prix, I realized that they deliberately tried to find a way to CHANGE EVERY DARN CONTROL DEVISED BY ENGINEERS IN THE PAST JUST TO SHOW HOW SMART THEY ARE, NO MATTER HOW MUCH MORE DIFFICULT THOSE NEW CONTROLS HAVE BECOME AND NO MATTER HOW MUCH TIME WILL IT TAKE FOR THE OWNER TO RE-LEARN.
I mean you get into a freaking Japanese car, even American these days (depending on the car) and after 10 minutes, you immediately feel you've lived with the car for a month. After 1 minute in the Vette, I felt I knew about 75% of the controls I'd need to use in there, especially the one without the NAVI.
Did I mention that there were some ergonomic issues with the interior of the 6 yet?
There is enough space for two people in the 6. No doubt. No idea about trunk space, it was raining and we were running when not in the car.
So turn the key, push the start button and the new, 4.8L V8 starts. At idle, nothing special, you can barely tell there is a V8 in there. The car is equipped with the auto tranny. Six speeds total with NO flaps behind the steering wheel.
The sound of the engine from a loudness standpoint is certainly on the low side. If not very low. You hear it only when under load. Its snarl changes but you can barely tell you got a special V8 under there. The nuance, once again for a BMW, does not excite. Me at least. The CLK sounds better and most probably louder and as I wrote I'd want it a little louder. I was surprised at the loudness of the 6 because I thought as a BMW it'd be louder than the MB.
Now, what about power? Well...in one word...underwhelming! Yes, I was not blown away. Actually far from that. Could it have been the fact that this is a cabrio and it probably weighs three tons instead of two? I don’t know, I don’t care. Overall, the feeling I got from the LS2 and the CLK550 is nowhere NEAR there in the case of the 6. The car does not feel slow, but you can tell that this engine needs at least another 500cc to start feeling like a V8. It does not slap you back in your seat like most V8s would.
It did show to like high rpm certainly more than the LS2 and most probably more then the MB engine, but so what if there is not enough power there?
So what about the ride then?
Well, the ride was fine but I was completely disappointed by the structural rigidity of this car. Or lack thereof. I went through the same bumps I just did with the CLK550 minutes ago and the 650i Cabrio would flex like I was in a 6 year old cheap American car or something (no disrespect to American cars at this point). I was very very surprised to feel severe structural issues in a BMW and even more, when considering its price!
Of course the flex problem affects the suspension, makes it less accurate but overall the 6 did not drive stiffer than the CLK550. If anything it might have been softer actually.
The one amazing thing with this car was its steering! I cant believe I am writing this but I do not think I have driven a car with more accurate steering before. And I don’t remember reading about this in mags either! Yes, this car's steering was so sensitive, I way over steered the first corner I had to take with it. I almost went over the pavement! Not exaggerating here! You turn it by a mm and it turns. If you put your hand on the 12 o'clock position of the steering wheel, and turn, the car will follow the direction your hand shows basically, if not over steer (and not in the sense of the tail coming out).
Also, the steering wheel was very thick! I like that and most BMWs have that now.
The brakes I did not test because of the rain. There was no clutch. The auto tranny was OK, not slow not fast. Certainly not as quick and smooth as in the CLK550.
Like I said, I later found out that the coupe starts at 71K and of course that did it for the 650i. I am sure the coupe will not suffer from the structural issues the cabrio suffers from and it will probably feel lighter on its feet, especially with a manual tranny, but this car is way overpriced for what it is.
Calling it an overpriced Camaro, is probably not a ridiculous thing to say at this point, because if there were Camaros available today, they'd be driving very close to the 6 minus the steering character.
I am getting disappointed by yet another BMW and I don’t like it at all!
I could not believe the car's MSRP. This was an 88K car! I did not realize 650s were so expensive. Later I realized that the coupe starts at 71K and change!
It was raining when we got out, so there was no chance for the (blue) top to come down.
I also did not have a chance to study the car from the outside, however we all have seen the 6 series several times by now. I am not very excited about its looks at all. I have sat in a 6 before, in the Chicago auto show and I do remember how small the space for the rear passengers is. This was confirmed once again last week. There is very minimal space back there, it will be tight even for 4th graders, especially with respect to leg room.
I sit in the car and the seats are fine. The overall impression by the 6's interior is hard to compare to the CLK's because it's so different. They have a completely different approach and philosophy, MB and BMW in this category at least. The 6 gave me the impression that used higher quality materials and the design was sportier while the CLK's more formal.
The big problem with the 6's interior is ergonomics. I mean it took us the whole test drive to figure out how exactly to turn on the wipers and set the right sensitivity with the rain sensitive system! The rep was clueless and after tinkering with the thing for minutes, he still did not get, I was the one that had to figure it out. We all know the issues with iDrive, no need to explain. The known with all BMWs double-"click" (unlatch) of the door latch for it to unlock and open and the absence of a simple button to unlock and lock, is another example.
I am not sure if you ever driven a Pontiac Grand Prix. This is what this ergonomics philosophy reminded me of. In the Grand Prix, as with certain BMWs the more time goes by, what they have been trying to do is, redefine all controls and control operations in the interior for some reason. It is obvious that this company is leaning towards being run by engineers and not by marketing and business folks in general. Hence the styling issues and the interior ergonomics issues we see.
I know exactly how engineers think, I work for a software company. It does not matter what they make, they think the same way. In the case of the car for example, they will see a set of controls for the radio and say...well...they are fine, but how can we devise a system that will minimize the number of controls from a total of six, to one? Me as a half tech half business guy, I ask, WHY THE HELL DO YOU HAVE TO DO THAT? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE CONTROLS THERE? If I worked at BMW, I'd loose the argument and later be laid off since as I said it's clear this is a company ran by engineers.
Another great example with many European cars now and with the 6, is the way one controls the indicators lights. I mean talk about trying to reinvent the wheel! THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE WHEEL FOLKS, IT'S ROUND AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE ROUND, LEAVE IT ALONE, THERE ARE A MILLION OTHER THINGS WE CAN IMPROVE ON, like let's say the freaking one million gazillion pounds this German Camaro weighs, for example! So what they did was they went and said, instead of pushing the lever up or down and then HAVING TO RETURN IT TO NEUTRAL (after the time of the need to indicate has passed), let's add a secondary control on the lever for temporary indicating which will last for say....four indications!
The 6 is full of ergonomic...how should I put it?....issues... like these.
When I got into the Grand Prix, I realized that they deliberately tried to find a way to CHANGE EVERY DARN CONTROL DEVISED BY ENGINEERS IN THE PAST JUST TO SHOW HOW SMART THEY ARE, NO MATTER HOW MUCH MORE DIFFICULT THOSE NEW CONTROLS HAVE BECOME AND NO MATTER HOW MUCH TIME WILL IT TAKE FOR THE OWNER TO RE-LEARN.
I mean you get into a freaking Japanese car, even American these days (depending on the car) and after 10 minutes, you immediately feel you've lived with the car for a month. After 1 minute in the Vette, I felt I knew about 75% of the controls I'd need to use in there, especially the one without the NAVI.
Did I mention that there were some ergonomic issues with the interior of the 6 yet?
There is enough space for two people in the 6. No doubt. No idea about trunk space, it was raining and we were running when not in the car.
So turn the key, push the start button and the new, 4.8L V8 starts. At idle, nothing special, you can barely tell there is a V8 in there. The car is equipped with the auto tranny. Six speeds total with NO flaps behind the steering wheel.
The sound of the engine from a loudness standpoint is certainly on the low side. If not very low. You hear it only when under load. Its snarl changes but you can barely tell you got a special V8 under there. The nuance, once again for a BMW, does not excite. Me at least. The CLK sounds better and most probably louder and as I wrote I'd want it a little louder. I was surprised at the loudness of the 6 because I thought as a BMW it'd be louder than the MB.
Now, what about power? Well...in one word...underwhelming! Yes, I was not blown away. Actually far from that. Could it have been the fact that this is a cabrio and it probably weighs three tons instead of two? I don’t know, I don’t care. Overall, the feeling I got from the LS2 and the CLK550 is nowhere NEAR there in the case of the 6. The car does not feel slow, but you can tell that this engine needs at least another 500cc to start feeling like a V8. It does not slap you back in your seat like most V8s would.
It did show to like high rpm certainly more than the LS2 and most probably more then the MB engine, but so what if there is not enough power there?
So what about the ride then?
Well, the ride was fine but I was completely disappointed by the structural rigidity of this car. Or lack thereof. I went through the same bumps I just did with the CLK550 minutes ago and the 650i Cabrio would flex like I was in a 6 year old cheap American car or something (no disrespect to American cars at this point). I was very very surprised to feel severe structural issues in a BMW and even more, when considering its price!
Of course the flex problem affects the suspension, makes it less accurate but overall the 6 did not drive stiffer than the CLK550. If anything it might have been softer actually.
The one amazing thing with this car was its steering! I cant believe I am writing this but I do not think I have driven a car with more accurate steering before. And I don’t remember reading about this in mags either! Yes, this car's steering was so sensitive, I way over steered the first corner I had to take with it. I almost went over the pavement! Not exaggerating here! You turn it by a mm and it turns. If you put your hand on the 12 o'clock position of the steering wheel, and turn, the car will follow the direction your hand shows basically, if not over steer (and not in the sense of the tail coming out).
Also, the steering wheel was very thick! I like that and most BMWs have that now.
The brakes I did not test because of the rain. There was no clutch. The auto tranny was OK, not slow not fast. Certainly not as quick and smooth as in the CLK550.
Like I said, I later found out that the coupe starts at 71K and of course that did it for the 650i. I am sure the coupe will not suffer from the structural issues the cabrio suffers from and it will probably feel lighter on its feet, especially with a manual tranny, but this car is way overpriced for what it is.
Calling it an overpriced Camaro, is probably not a ridiculous thing to say at this point, because if there were Camaros available today, they'd be driving very close to the 6 minus the steering character.
I am getting disappointed by yet another BMW and I don’t like it at all!
07-26-2006, 12:55 PM
#159
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
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Originally Posted by gavriil
words...words...words...
glad i stuck with japanese for my last purchase.
