Dan Martin

I was referring to the CDN pricing for Vette and Carrera. The Vette starts at $70K and with the options you mentioned, it would be right up to $80K. The Carrera starts at $104K bare bones. A used Carrera would be closer to the Vette's price.


There's no disputing the torque and quickness of the Vette. I'm sure it's quicker and faster than any 911 short of the turbo or the GT's. I prefer nimbleness over power (hence why I drive a TSX rather than a TL) and the Vette just doesn't feel very nimble to me. It feels very big behind the wheel, whereas the 911 feels more like a dance partner. It's just a matter of preference, and I don't think there's any thing wrong with either car.

Yes, I have driven several. Three air-cooled Carreras (one turbo), one 996 targa, a 996 GT2 (passenger), and a 996 Turbo X51 package. I don't have any experience with the boxter or cayman for what it's worth.

chungkopi

how about publishing GAVURAZINE? i'll buy it over any domestic magazines. you da man gav!!

gavriil

^ Thank you.

cusdaddy

Great job on the reviews as always! Out of the list, my favorite definitely would be the C6. I was planning on getting one myself recently, but I ended up with the Z again as the price and insurance were a bit of a stretch for me to spend on a sports car at the moment.

I'm anxiously awaiting your next reviews!

chungkopi

what about m5?

lscld

Gav,

I love the C6, and reading your review is making me want to go drive one. But I do have one question, any thoughts on the Z06 'vette? That sucker's a beast!

BTW, great reviews!

picus

Great review - I too read it all. It makes me want to test drive a 'vette. I've been in cars with comparable performance numbers (all much more expensive), and had sort of written it off. Maybe I should give it another chance.

One question; you got to test drive an already sold car? If that's the case something about that would rub me the wrong way. I know the dealer in this case was really good to you, but seeing him do something like that would almost completely put me off. :/

gavriil

Too much money. Especially for its exterior looks.

gavriil

Thanks. For me, since I had an issue with the Z51 suspension package, I know that I will for sure would have an issue with the Z06. Plus I am sure it'd be too loud for me. I am getting old already at 34 Plus all the other issues with the Z06 like hard to find, price gauging, etc.

ALso let me add here that the C6 is by far! the cheapest car to insure on my list. It was about 282 dollars per 6 months for me.

lscld

Ahhhh that's true^^^^^
The C6 is a fast car already with good handling.
I was JW.
Thank's

gdubb

what a great write up, thanks gav.

Belt how long have you had the M3 now, it seems like its only been a year

F900

You mean $282 per month ? or $282 for 6months total ?

Also a question I wanted to ask you as I did not see you mention it, is how much where you looking to spend/finance total ?


And did you drive the CLK550 again ?

Infamous425

if he liked the LS2's low end (and all around) torque he wont like the m5

gavriil

282 per 6 months. I pay 228 for the CL-C right now.

It's a package deal, home/auto plus 10% off from the wife's employer.

gavriil

Not sure about that. Certainly the CLK550 is within budget, but I am a value guy at the same time. In other words, the fact that the CLK is 10K more than a C6 is working against the CLK. However, the final decision will be, is it worth the extra 10K.

Yes I did. And I also drove a 650i Cabrio back to back.

Beltfed

Three years this Oct.

Amazing how fast time goes.

chungkopi

i guess i'm the only one who thinks m5 is beautiful beyond description.

F900

Since you seem like a person who keeps there cars for a couple of years, and if you where considering the CLK, I'd push you on the 650i coupe... Or even a 645ci ( low miles 04-05 cert)

What I found out even thought its alot more car, the BMW 645ci surprisingly has very similar MPG to the Acura CL-S, and also Mx issues seem to more common with the CLK Vs the 6 series coupe.

gavriil

OK so two Fridays ago, I went to the MB dealer at Westmont, IL and tested a CLK550. I also tested the same car again, at the Barrington, IL dealer this past Friday and I will drive the cabrio next week once again at the Naperville, IL dealer.

There was an SLR outside the Westmont, IL dealer. Yes outside. I went there three times total (long story why) and the SLR was always outside! I mean the Porsche dealer, right across the street, had a Carrera GT there but at least it was inside the shop. Anyway...

While I am awaiting for the CLK to show up, I check out a bunch of cars in the shop, the new ML and R-Class, the SLK, again, only this time it's the 280, an S550 with 22 inch aftermarket wheels, a CLK55 AMG (cabrio of course), an SL65 even. In brief, they did a very good job with the interior of the ML this time. The R Class is interesting. Very long. It was obvious that the overall build quality of that thing is very high. Part of the new MB as far as quality. Not so much the interior but how it's built in general. The S' interior is BY FAR better than that of the 750i's. Tons of room inside the S! Front and aft. The SL65's interior is at best ridiculous considering the price of the car. MSRP of that car was 185K dollars! Many things felt like they'd fall off after a little rough feeling of their structural integrity, like the cover of the instrument panel for example. You can tell that this car is of the previous MB era of quality of manufacturing. The S, the R and even the M, show big signs of improvement.

Finally I was looking at the CLk55 AMG's MSRP at 85+K and was wondering who would buy this car at that price when the CLK550 cabrio makes more power and more torque. OK the AMG has other goodies but the price differential is substantial!

The CLK550 coupe arrives and I take a walk around the car for a few. I always like to do that as I see little things that I never notice in photos and reviews in general. Especially now when car reviews have become so non-thorough and short! By the way if any of you would like to start a new car magazine on line or not, ping me

So while I am going around the car I realize once again that one of the issues I have with this car is the fact that its exterior design is not aggressive enough. For me. And for the power under the hood and general hardware picked by MB. I mean...17 inch wheels?! With NO option for 18s?! At almost 400 horses and pounds of torque? Our CLS with 232 pounds (in reality less than 232) and you get 17s. Also: 245 rear tires? What is up with MB undertiring their cars lately? Even AMG cars. Of course using larger wheels as we all know is not all positive. I am sure the ride quality is dramatically enhanced with these wheels and also how much power these wheels "steal" from reaching the ground is another, but I think this car needs 18 inch wheels and possibly 265mm wide rear tires.

OK they are using the ala-AMG front mesh grill at the lower apron, but still. You can barely see that thing, especially if the car is black. And most CLKs are black for some reason. There are like 15 colors to chose from and most are metallic colors at extra cost!




Overall, I am not super enthused by the car's front, the car looks too much like my CL-S from the rear and so for me the best side of the CLK is its side profile. Especially because there are four windows total to lower and they are pillarless! The lack of a B pillar really helps the design of a coupe. Of course it adds to the cost and especially weight of the car but you cant have it all.

And on top of all that...non-aggressiveness...there is no dual exhaust. At least not dual in the sense where it ends at both sides of the rear bumper. They do say AMG on them, but they end at one side of the car. Only the CLK63 gets dual exhaust.



So I get in and I feel that overall, the interior is mostly par with the character and price of the car. I like the seats and they are not even the multicountoured seats that come as an option for another thousand dollars and give you the ability to adjust the "wings" of the seats. You control how much or not, they'd hug your body in theory. Plus they add seven micro fans to suck humid air off your back and ass. In theory these seats sound very promising.

There are some parts of the interior that are average (like for example the feeling one gets when they open the glove box which feels like it's ready to come off and does not close easily and decisively), but overall the quality of the materials is above average. The design is also above average to me.




The car I drove was equipped with the Premium Package 2 (of 3). It includes Package 1 (6 CD Changer with MP3, Harman Kardon Logic7 digital surround sound system, UHI prewiring for hands free communication system, Sunroof, SIRIUS satellite radio)

and adds:

Bi-Xenon headlamps with Active Illumination, Heated headlamp washers (very good for where I live), Heated Washer System (also very good for where I live), Fog lamps.

I am not crazy about wood in a car's interior very much. I prefer good high quality soft materials, like alcantara and others. So I was happy to see that this car lacked the optional wooden steering wheel, which costs extra...money. The only issue with the steering wheel? It's not sporty looking enough, mostly because it's got one too many interior support joints. I like three, like BMW mostly uses. What is it with MB persisting with four-jointed steering wheels, I do not understand. The only MB car I have seen with a three spoked steering wheel is the SLK.



I also am not crazy about the steering wheels buttons and their shape. They look like they are afterthought parts, however they are very ergonomic.

Another issue is the (right) hand rest. It does not double as storage space (like in the case of our CLS and most cars these days). You just slide a cover to uncover two cup holders. AND! In the case of last year's model, 2006, it looks like the hand rest does open to unveil something



This photo below is from a 2006 E Class car which looks like the 2007 CLK inherited the design:



So I sit down and I almost get startled because I feel that someone is sitting in the back seats as I hear noise coming from behind me. Oh! It's the pneumatic levers that push the seatbelt forward and basically next to my left ear so it's easier for me to stretch, reach and grab to buckle up. Phew! I guess people that buy MBs cannot stretch far enough, lol.

BTW very little room in the glovebox mainly due to the 6-CD Changer which obviously is not in-dash. So this MB is equipped with a total of 7 CD player, because you can add one in-dash behind the LCD screen, where you'd put the DVD Navigation disk if so equipped.



Photo above is of 2006 model.

So I start the engine (by turning the metal-less key) and I can tell right away there is a V8 under there. It does not sound as pronounced as a GTO's for example at idle, but I can tell the nuance of a V8 immediately. Very characteristic.

The sales guy tries to explain to me how the new 7G Tronic tranny works. It has many different modes, but basically, one can use the wings behind the steering wheel to achieve manual mode very quickly (from D mode) or the shifter to do the same. There is a button next to the shifter which changes something from C (for Comfort) to S (for Sport). I am saying "something" because the former dealer told me it's the tranny mapping and the latter it's the suspension. Both may be wrong cos I felt no difference on anything.

Overall this tranny is GREAT! For me, it may be the perfect compromise between manual and auto, because:

1. It's super quick.
2. It's super smooth
3. There is no clutch
4. It has 7 ratios which means that there are enough short gear ratios for being aggressive but also enough long gears to be quiet and economic with gas.

Of course it's not a manual, but it's not the typical auto tranny either, like the one in our CL-S which is the main reason I want a new car!

We start moving and while in second gear, gas pedal at 85% and the car JUMPS forward. I was surprised by the torque in this thing. It was not the unbelievable flow of endless torque of the LS2 but it was similar and in a much more refined way. As it should be. After all this is an MB car and it's a lot heavier than the C6. However, this was more proof of me needing a V8 for my next car and the larger it is, the better.

Now, what about the ride quality? Well, I think the CLK comes as close to what I want from that perspective as any car I have driven. We went over the same roads I drove the Porsche cars and the M3. Over the horizontal bumps where the M3 with the 19s was becoming VERY upset, the CLK was telling me "there are some bumps here which you don’t wonna feel and I will filter them for you, but just so you know, there are some bumps here". Very refined while still communicative. The CLK says, I am an athlete with an Armani suit on and it's not proper for me to show my passengers what's really on the road. It's like it speaks British English with a German accent. The M3 speaks slang and only slang and it will tell you how it is and add some sauce to the story!

There is almost nothing coming in the cabin, when going over patchy pavement. Broken pavement is almost completely filtered.

However, when you go over smooth but uneven pavement (when the road changes height that is), it tells you exactly what's happening. And that's where you need the communication part because you feel in control. It does not float at all!

Again, this suspension is not soft! BTW, the 550 as a default gets the sport suspension package which is an option with the 350 car.

Overall, very impressive to me. I don’t know why BMW gets all the praise when it comes to ride quality and I am not talking about the M3 only. I have driven many many BMW cars. Maybe only the 5 series comes very close to this experience I had with the CLK.

The typical feeling one gets behind, pretty much, every MB car is there. And that the "it drives like a tank" feeling. You know that structural rigidity is sky high but at the same time you realize that this is a heavy car. And it is heavy, which is one of its main disadvantages for me, other than its looks and its price.

However, you can play with this car. Mainly because of its powerful engine and ability to turn the ESP off. Even with it ON, it lets you slide and spin a little.

This engine is great folks. It's got power everywhere! Probably because of the switch to DOHC from SOHC from MB? Its torque peak of 391 pounds starts at 2800 and stays there up to 4800 rpm. And the tranny with the 7 ratios help show you all of its character. Again, unlike the LS2, it feels perfectly happy at above 5500 rpm. This drivetrain is totally a hot rod's drivetrain is what I thought of, both the times I drove the car.

The sound of the engine is a little quieter than I would have liked. The nuance is above average, but when even at WOT, this engine is too muted in my opinion. Again, a little too much Armani suit, a little too little athletic character.

Overall, this car comes as close to what I want as any car, although a completely different car than the C6, it has different pros and cons.

The main cons of the CLK are three:

1. Price (the car I want costs about 68K including tax)
2. Exterior looks
3. Too heavy for what I want (by about 250 pounds)

And what I should add to the above is the fact that the more I talk to dealers over the phone, the more I realize that this car will be very difficult to locate optioned like I want it with the colors I want unless if special-ordered, which takes 3 months to arrive. Plus the fact that they JUST now are arriving at dealer lots, does not help my negotiating power as far as price. Unlike the C6 which you find them by the dozens, although negotiating for one may be as hard as that of the CLK. I did get the impression that MB dealers will negotiate for the CLK a little bit. Maybe 1000 bucks.

Crazy Bimmer

Base Vette it is!

You sure have a wide price range though

What other cars are left to drive?

gavriil

^ I am contemplating now to wait for the 335 and even the new TT. They Europeans are hyping the new TT like crazy I am reading.

Minch00

Can you fix the typo in the thread title..............ResEarch Gav



Great reviews so far. I just wish I had the capacity to test these cars, much less consider buying them.

gavriil

Shit! All these days, NO ONE has noticed except you?

Thanks Minch.

gavriil

And by "capacity" you mean....?

Minch00

By "capacity" I mean that I'm a 20 y/o male that delivers pizzas and works at a resturaunt while going to college.

A)I cannot afford these cars

B)If I approached the showrooms I'd probably be chased off the lot with a stick. Possibly a broom handle.

gavriil

^ Ah...I see what you mean

Crazy Bimmer

Yea i read Road and Track and they tested the new TT vs Cayman S.

They seems to really like it but also mentioned how its not like a track star compared to the Cayman S. Then again that doesnt really apply to you so you might actually enjoy the TT.

Im actually debating on leasing a 335i
I do worry about first model year run, especially an engine like this. So i figure leasing would be easier on my wallet and give me full warranty during ownership. But it will be awhile till i can see what the leasing rates will be.

Beltfed

If you want lot's of torque, the new TT isn't going to cut it........not to mention it really isn't all that fast either.

That aside, its a nice looking car. The interior is killer looking.

M TYPE X

If the Chicago area dealer association knew that gav was hopping around every Benz dealer to play with any car he could find, they'd chase him off too. It seems to me that I've been in nearly early Japanese brand showroom in the Detroit area, even for Acura and Infiniti.

Because my weren't asked for: have you considered an Illinois-built Mitsubishi? Support local industry! Even better, buy at O'Brien Mitsubishi in Normal ... it's the hugest Mitsubishi Motors dealer lot I've ever seen.


















And my eyes still hurt!

M TYPE X

When I look at cars, I focus on one kind of body style. Gav has tested coupes, convertibles, AND roadsters!

West6MT

What about the SLK AMG 55??? I dunno if its in your price range, but that might be a mix of all the stuff you are looking for. It has a V8 and is lighter than the CLK. Just a thought.

gavriil

I think you might be right. That's why I am wondering how the 335 will feel. At 300 pounds at only 1800 rpm, it should feel torquie.

gavriil

I know. This time I thought I'd buy the right freaking car

The more I get disappointed by star cars (see Cayman S), the more my search expands. Now I am thinking of testing SRT cars for example and I am sure there are some I am missing. I will go to Edmunds and go through every car on the list and even if there is one that may interest my remotely, I will put in on the list.

gavriil

Yeah I think I mentioned it above. I would love to test drive an SLK55 and yes I'd be able to purchase it if I liked. But there are non to be found. Most MB dealers told me that once they get in, they are gone within a few days. They can only be ordered and there is no such thing as a test drive in the case of the SLk55.

The two things I am wondering about the SLK55 are:

1. How will the 5 speed auto feel to me? Will that be enough gears?
2. Will there be an SLK 550 now that this engine makes more power and torque than the older 55 AMG engine?

I doubt the latter, and I am guessing there will be an SLK63 with something like 450HP or so, but that will create a huge voide between the 350 and the 63. Who knows...

gavriil

What I will write next on are the Lexus SC430 and the BMW 650i Cabrio.

Infamous425

this is my pick... one day

savage

great writeups...

Dan Martin

I'll be interested in your opinion of the 650. I had mixed feelings when my old boss had one for a week.

One magazine said it was the best Camaro $80,000 can buy, and I have to say that sums up my opinions too.

It's a very strange car. It drives beautifully, but it feels huge. It's an even stranger feeling when you're cruising around in something that big with the roof cut off. It's not overly sporty, but it's very capable. It's the kind of car I would take to the golf course for a nice day out, but I would rather have something else for spirited drives in the country. It's more boulevard cruiser than sports car, but it's probably the most driver-oriented boulevard cruiser on the market.

It's kind of like taking a cabin cruiser boat and slapping a 1500hp blown V8 in the hull. It will go fast, but it's DNA says to go slow and enjoy the scenery.

Anyhow, I look forward to your review and hope I haven't biased your opinion before you take it out.

gavriil

There will be a lot more negatives to say about the 650 than positives, let's leave it at that

picus

1400rpm...