Reliability of BMW's
04-26-2010, 08:57 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
There is no difference between:
"I know three people with BMW's, and they are all some sort of silver or gray. BMW's must be gray colored."
and
"I know three people with BMW's, and none had any trouble with them. BMW's must be reliable."
Because the first is a more absolute statement, it is easier to dismiss with a counter-example. But the basic mistake is the same.
In fact, because most cars are in general reliable, positive anecdotes are particularly valueless since they are expected. If 90% of cars have no major issues in the first year, you expect to hear 9 good stories for every bad one.
04-26-2010, 09:21 PM
#42
Drifting
My family has had many bimmer's from 3 series to 7 series. All of them have been great. I'm talking about at least 20 BMW's from the past 20 years. So no...they are not unreliable.
04-26-2010, 11:58 PM
#44
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Acura fixed the transmissions on the 2nd gen TL? So if i were to buy an 03 TL, the transmission wouldnt fail because its an all new system?
Or you just saying the transmissions stopped failing in the 3rd gen TLs? I wouldnt call that a fix for the 2nd gen TL owners...
Or you just saying the transmissions stopped failing in the 3rd gen TLs? I wouldnt call that a fix for the 2nd gen TL owners...
Neither should have these problems anyways.
04-27-2010, 12:04 AM
#45
One on the right for me
04-27-2010, 12:12 AM
#46
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
^
Depends on what the definition of 'is', 'is'.
That's the whole point. Some people consider monthly 'adjustments' normal. I also think they leased the cars short term, low miles.
Depends on what the definition of 'is', 'is'.
That's the whole point. Some people consider monthly 'adjustments' normal. I also think they leased the cars short term, low miles.
Last edited by MR1; 04-27-2010 at 12:14 AM.
04-27-2010, 12:14 AM
#47
I would only get a BMW if it's under warranty.
04-27-2010, 05:43 AM
#49
Even though personal experience and recommendations are valueless when considered in any rational way? There is absolutely no reason to consider a small sample anecdotal evidence when evaluating a class of objects. It is a type of logical fallacy.
There is no difference between:
"I know three people with BMW's, and they are all some sort of silver or gray. BMW's must be gray colored."
and
"I know three people with BMW's, and none had any trouble with them. BMW's must be reliable."
Because the first is a more absolute statement, it is easier to dismiss with a counter-example. But the basic mistake is the same.
In fact, because most cars are in general reliable, positive anecdotes are particularly valueless since they are expected. If 90% of cars have no major issues in the first year, you expect to hear 9 good stories for every bad one.
There is no difference between:
"I know three people with BMW's, and they are all some sort of silver or gray. BMW's must be gray colored."
and
"I know three people with BMW's, and none had any trouble with them. BMW's must be reliable."
Because the first is a more absolute statement, it is easier to dismiss with a counter-example. But the basic mistake is the same.
In fact, because most cars are in general reliable, positive anecdotes are particularly valueless since they are expected. If 90% of cars have no major issues in the first year, you expect to hear 9 good stories for every bad one.
Well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it... but I disagree. It's really not worth responding any further. If you can't see that there is a difference between your first two statements, then common sense must have waved bye-bye a long time ago. Honestly, to assume people would take opinions and turn them into such statements, presented as facts as you outline, it's pretty silly. It's not as black as white as you make it seem. Plenty of room on the grey area if you'd like to visit sometime...
This is no different then asking your neighbor if a restaurant you're planning to go to is any good. If they have been there themselves, then you value their opinion and consider it when making your dinner decisions. Is their opinion factual, of course not, but it is relevant.
.
Last edited by juniorbean; 04-27-2010 at 05:57 AM.
04-27-2010, 06:55 AM
#50
Senior Moderator
That pretty much sums it up for me when it comes to any Euro make vehicle.
04-27-2010, 09:16 AM
#51
friend has a 95 740il with 130k+ on it. It needed new rotors, control arms, bushing, pixels were dead, tape player didn't really work and if he played with the sound control his CD player would stop working. Cats failed, sensor problems and some other small things.
Basically a lot of stuff could have been replaced to make the car nicer, but it drove and that's all that mattered to him. He ended up selling it for $6,000.00 lmao...lucky mofo.
Basically a lot of stuff could have been replaced to make the car nicer, but it drove and that's all that mattered to him. He ended up selling it for $6,000.00 lmao...lucky mofo.
04-27-2010, 09:31 AM
#52
Drifting
friend has a 95 740il with 130k+ on it. It needed new rotors, control arms, bushing, pixels were dead, tape player didn't really work and if he played with the sound control his CD player would stop working. Cats failed, sensor problems and some other small things.
Basically a lot of stuff could have been replaced to make the car nicer, but it drove and that's all that mattered to him. He ended up selling it for $6,000.00 lmao...lucky mofo.
Basically a lot of stuff could have been replaced to make the car nicer, but it drove and that's all that mattered to him. He ended up selling it for $6,000.00 lmao...lucky mofo.
04-27-2010, 09:36 AM
#53
Burning Brakes
Well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it... but I disagree. It's really not worth responding any further. If you can't see that there is a difference between your first two statements, then common sense must have waved bye-bye a long time ago. Honestly, to assume people would take opinions and turn them into such statements, presented as facts as you outline, it's pretty silly. It's not as black as white as you make it seem. Plenty of room on the grey area if you'd like to visit sometime...
This is no different then asking your neighbor if a restaurant you're planning to go to is any good. If they have been there themselves, then you value their opinion and consider it when making your dinner decisions. Is their opinion factual, of course not, but it is relevant.
.
04-27-2010, 03:08 PM
#54
^ I get what you're trying to say, however, my point is that the argument is not valid on forums like this which are built specifically around the sharing of ideas, opinions, and experiences. To try to make a point that people's opinions, whether first hand or second hand, are not valid b/c they are anecdotal evidence is completely irreverent in a forum such as this. If that was the case then IB should just disable the 100 or so forums they own, close this entire segment of their business, and just refer all members to read Consumer Reports or JD Powers if they would like to know about a specific vehicle. 
Where's Sarlacc when you need him?
/hijack
Where's Sarlacc when you need him?
/hijack
Last edited by juniorbean; 04-27-2010 at 03:15 PM.
04-27-2010, 04:08 PM
#56
Senior Moderator
good rule of thumb as others have said, get one with warranty (CPO is real nice) - dealer takes care of everything for you, pretty much. even oil changes. sell around 50k miles to avoid further hassle. if you have CPO to 100k miles, go until then if you want. but if you start having problems, sell.
04-27-2010, 04:19 PM
#57
Safety Car
Our CEO at work hates her's. She got it about 2 years ago, and loved it at first. But it has been in the shop more than her Expedition has. She says the last few times was electrical issues with her door locks not working and she couldn't get out of the car so she had to crawl out the window. Yea, stupid crap.
So I would say they aren't as reliable as other cars, but I would still own one as long as it had the big warranty.
So I would say they aren't as reliable as other cars, but I would still own one as long as it had the big warranty.
Over in the 4g TL forum, lots of people repeatedly say that BMW has severe reliability problems and that's one of the reasons why they bought a TL instead. Is anyone speaking based on experience - I doubt it.
I have yet to hear of multiple people having reliability problems with their BMW's. And I'm not talking their 1985 BMW that has problems nowadays.
I asked my dad about his BMW - a 2005 328xi sportwagon, and he said it has been a very reliable car for him. He has 125k miles and he said the only major repair was that the rear springs/shocks went out and he had to have them replaced. He leased a 2002 BMW 325i but that was for 3 years so you wouldn't expect problems at that point.
Thoughts on the true reliability of BMW's? No rumors or comments without some sort of personal experience please.
I have yet to hear of multiple people having reliability problems with their BMW's. And I'm not talking their 1985 BMW that has problems nowadays.
I asked my dad about his BMW - a 2005 328xi sportwagon, and he said it has been a very reliable car for him. He has 125k miles and he said the only major repair was that the rear springs/shocks went out and he had to have them replaced. He leased a 2002 BMW 325i but that was for 3 years so you wouldn't expect problems at that point.
Thoughts on the true reliability of BMW's? No rumors or comments without some sort of personal experience please.
04-27-2010, 05:02 PM
#58
good rule of thumb as others have said, get one with warranty (CPO is real nice) - dealer takes care of everything for you, pretty much. even oil changes. sell around 50k miles to avoid further hassle. if you have CPO to 100k miles, go until then if you want. but if you start having problems, sell.
When my wife said she wanted Audi's I told her fine, but it must have a warranty. The CPO is awesome and not only is the car covered to 100k, but all services are covered as well. Gotta love it!!Her car will be right around 100k come Jan/Feb... so at the end of this year we'll be back in the market for another CPO. She loves her A6 and as I have mentioned, it has been as good or better then either Acura I owned, so we will likely be looking Audi again although Mercedes and BMW have crept into the conversation. We'll see...
But yes, the words "German Auto" should be synonymous with warranty
04-27-2010, 05:18 PM
#59
Senior Moderator
I had a 325i for 3 years and like others said its not a "complicated" model so less chance of things going bad but I did have the fuel pump go out once. It was a CPO so the total cost to me was zero. Pretty damn nice. It was really the most trouble-free car I've had, from that standpoint. Even though I had to take it to the dealer to get that pump replaced, having to pay 0 for it feels very good. Other than that, I had no problems with the car. I think just 2 oil changes (it doesn't need them very often), had a rear taillamp go out (I had to pay for that, I think it was $70 total, not a big deal imo).
I sold it in February and got an X3 Sport at the same dealer. But I think I'll be selling this one soon, I wasn't prepared for the horrible gas mileage this thing gets. The 325 got really good mileage (rated at 20/29 - I would easily get 30+ on the highway).
This BMW dealer (I dunno if others do it too) has been so good to me from a dealer level. I've got both of these vehicles with warranties that cover minor dings and dents (being in the city this is pretty much inevitable), oil changes and other basic maintenance, and other stuff I forget. The X3 has 19"s and the warranty even covers the wheels, fully. If I happen to curb or dent a wheel, they'll replace it free. I also got that warranty where if the car is stolen, they'll give me the full loan amount. Forgot what that's called. Guaranteed something. All of this makes me want to continue buying BMW's. But, due to the horrible mileage of this ride, and also due to the fact that I want to have something that's fun again (I got tired of driving an SUV real fast!), something that I can roadrace.
I sold it in February and got an X3 Sport at the same dealer. But I think I'll be selling this one soon, I wasn't prepared for the horrible gas mileage this thing gets. The 325 got really good mileage (rated at 20/29 - I would easily get 30+ on the highway).
This BMW dealer (I dunno if others do it too) has been so good to me from a dealer level. I've got both of these vehicles with warranties that cover minor dings and dents (being in the city this is pretty much inevitable), oil changes and other basic maintenance, and other stuff I forget. The X3 has 19"s and the warranty even covers the wheels, fully. If I happen to curb or dent a wheel, they'll replace it free. I also got that warranty where if the car is stolen, they'll give me the full loan amount. Forgot what that's called. Guaranteed something. All of this makes me want to continue buying BMW's. But, due to the horrible mileage of this ride, and also due to the fact that I want to have something that's fun again (I got tired of driving an SUV real fast!), something that I can roadrace.
04-27-2010, 07:36 PM
#61
Suzuka Master
BMWs as a whole are fairly reliable, but certainly not near lexus reliability. It also greatly varies by model and even year, so its hard to judge the brand as a whole. This is based on the experience of fixing these cars for a living, not some story from my cousins step-fathers roomate in college.
See, this is why you don't base a purchase on a persons opinion of the reliability of the vehicle. What your boss told you is NOT possible on any modern BMW that has had an electronic problem with the door locks. The drivers door has a mechanical back-up so you can always get out of the vehicle in emergencies. The lock actuator would have to mechancialy fail or the pull cable in the door snap for that to happen and that is pretty uncommon on BMWs.
Our CEO at work hates her's. She got it about 2 years ago, and loved it at first. But it has been in the shop more than her Expedition has. She says the last few times was electrical issues with her door locks not working and she couldn't get out of the car so she had to crawl out the window. Yea, stupid crap.
So I would say they aren't as reliable as other cars, but I would still own one as long as it had the big warranty.
So I would say they aren't as reliable as other cars, but I would still own one as long as it had the big warranty.
04-27-2010, 07:47 PM
#62
Banned
My 2005 was reliable for 50000 miles. I had to change the front control arms and it was taken care at an oil change.
My 2007 was quite a pain in the early months, but has been ok for the last 24 months. I trust it enough to keep it another 5 years. My biggest fear is the electrical water pump. When it goes, no warning and you are left on the road with a bill of 1200$+. Hopefully it won't fail, but there are a few cases on the net.
At least they have REAL BRAKES. All Honda I owned had pulsing brakes that needed maintenance more than expected.
My 2007 was quite a pain in the early months, but has been ok for the last 24 months. I trust it enough to keep it another 5 years. My biggest fear is the electrical water pump. When it goes, no warning and you are left on the road with a bill of 1200$+. Hopefully it won't fail, but there are a few cases on the net.
At least they have REAL BRAKES. All Honda I owned had pulsing brakes that needed maintenance more than expected.
04-27-2010, 09:11 PM
#64
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2007
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My car has a small leak from the valve cover gasket, $60 in parts and two hours of labor and it will be fixed. I'm doing it myself. My old TL had a leak at the rear main seal, $1000 to have fixed at the dealership. Get over it, shit leaks it's bound to happen on any car.
Oh, and if you get an SMG transmission you can expect problems, but it's the idiots who don't that then complain how horribly unreliable BMW's are.
04-27-2010, 10:22 PM
#65
Drifting
04-27-2010, 10:38 PM
#66
Safety Car
BMWs as a whole are fairly reliable, but certainly not near lexus reliability. It also greatly varies by model and even year, so its hard to judge the brand as a whole. This is based on the experience of fixing these cars for a living, not some story from my cousins step-fathers roomate in college.
See, this is why you don't base a purchase on a persons opinion of the reliability of the vehicle. What your boss told you is NOT possible on any modern BMW that has had an electronic problem with the door locks. The drivers door has a mechanical back-up so you can always get out of the vehicle in emergencies. The lock actuator would have to mechancialy fail or the pull cable in the door snap for that to happen and that is pretty uncommon on BMWs.
See, this is why you don't base a purchase on a persons opinion of the reliability of the vehicle. What your boss told you is NOT possible on any modern BMW that has had an electronic problem with the door locks. The drivers door has a mechanical back-up so you can always get out of the vehicle in emergencies. The lock actuator would have to mechancialy fail or the pull cable in the door snap for that to happen and that is pretty uncommon on BMWs.
04-27-2010, 10:57 PM
#67
Heaven forbid an oil leak! God that's just typical of BMW's.
My car has a small leak from the valve cover gasket, $60 in parts and two hours of labor and it will be fixed. I'm doing it myself. My old TL had a leak at the rear main seal, $1000 to have fixed at the dealership. Get over it, shit leaks it's bound to happen on any car.
Oh, and if you get an SMG transmission you can expect problems, but it's the idiots who don't that then complain how horribly unreliable BMW's are.
My car has a small leak from the valve cover gasket, $60 in parts and two hours of labor and it will be fixed. I'm doing it myself. My old TL had a leak at the rear main seal, $1000 to have fixed at the dealership. Get over it, shit leaks it's bound to happen on any car.
Oh, and if you get an SMG transmission you can expect problems, but it's the idiots who don't that then complain how horribly unreliable BMW's are.
04-28-2010, 02:20 AM
#68
I never had any serious issue with any of BMW that I had or have.
01 BMW 530i- Super charged with ESS kit. No issue all the way to 38k miles other than final stage resistor that cause AC fan to be nothing or full power.
03 BMW M3- No issues other than rattling passenger seat and moonroof cover that fell.
03 BMW M5- o-ring in one of the cylinder was not setting probably- this is the most serious issue i had
06 BMW M5- steering angle sensor failed- actually left me stranded. Other than that it has been bullet proof
08 BMW M3 Vert- No issue at all.
09 BMW 135i 6 speed- other than fuel pump failed at 7k miles, no other issues.
I haven't had any more acura product since 00 TL. But had a 07 honda odyssey in between.
TL- bad brakes, bad transmission, numerous rattle
Odyssey- numerous rattle, failed power door, power steering groan.
BMW has its issues. But far from unreliable as many here made it out to be. Honda/Acura quality has been over blown in my opinion. Based on my experiences thus far, I would say BMW quality is superior than Honda.
Granted i don't keep my car past warranty period. I never keep car for long so i can't comment on long term.
01 BMW 530i- Super charged with ESS kit. No issue all the way to 38k miles other than final stage resistor that cause AC fan to be nothing or full power.
03 BMW M3- No issues other than rattling passenger seat and moonroof cover that fell.
03 BMW M5- o-ring in one of the cylinder was not setting probably- this is the most serious issue i had
06 BMW M5- steering angle sensor failed- actually left me stranded. Other than that it has been bullet proof
08 BMW M3 Vert- No issue at all.
09 BMW 135i 6 speed- other than fuel pump failed at 7k miles, no other issues.
I haven't had any more acura product since 00 TL. But had a 07 honda odyssey in between.
TL- bad brakes, bad transmission, numerous rattle
Odyssey- numerous rattle, failed power door, power steering groan.
BMW has its issues. But far from unreliable as many here made it out to be. Honda/Acura quality has been over blown in my opinion. Based on my experiences thus far, I would say BMW quality is superior than Honda.
Granted i don't keep my car past warranty period. I never keep car for long so i can't comment on long term.
04-28-2010, 05:44 AM
#69
Moderator Alumnus
To the OP, it's kind of a generalized question.
It would be like saying "is my 07 Chrysler Sebring Limited V6 is reliable?"... To me it is, w/over 40,xxx miles on the clock and no major repairs. Just regular mobil 1 synthetic oil changes and tire changes.
It all depends on the driver and driving habits sometimes, and then other times it falls on the manufacture.
It would be like saying "is my 07 Chrysler Sebring Limited V6 is reliable?"... To me it is, w/over 40,xxx miles on the clock and no major repairs. Just regular mobil 1 synthetic oil changes and tire changes.
It all depends on the driver and driving habits sometimes, and then other times it falls on the manufacture.
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