Huskymaniac

Of the suite of Mobil 1 products, the oil with the highest HTHS is 0W-20 High Mileage. It is higher than the 0W-20 regular M1, 5W-20 regular M1 and 5W-20 High Mileage. Due to the thin nature of these 20W oils, I highly suggest going with the one that delivers the highest HTHS which is the viscosity under 150C and high stress. I was surprised that the 0W-20 was thicker than the 5W-20 but it is! Valvoline Full Synthetic Maxlife does not provide HTHS numbers but I think they will be in the same ballpark as the M1 products and they are much more expensive. Redline 5W-20 is probably the best bet overall but $$$!!!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I've been using Redline 5w-30 for a couple years now! great info, Husky!!

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Yet another worthless oil thread?

projektvertx

iTrader: (2)

This thread is really non- specific to the 2G RL... looking into getting it moved... On a side note, you asked 10 people about oil you'll get 10 different opinions....

Huskymaniac

That is pretty thick oil. If Honda is honest about needed viscosities for proper operation of VVT, you might be a little too thick unless you are in a really hot climate. For Redline, 5W-20 is thick enough without being too thick. You got $$$ to be using that every 7500 miles!!!

Huskymaniac

Not really. For this car, the suggested weights are 5W-20 and 0W-20. On top of that, I provided actual data on the oils. It isn't opinion, totally. The only opinion is on what is desired for viscosity. The Euro car makers suggest an HTHS of at least 3.5. No xW-20 oil will reach that. Also, Honda says that lighter weight oils are needed for proper operation of VVT so going to xW-30 is concerning. Where that brings me is, get the highest HTHS you can get with an xW-20 oil. Redline is the best but is very expensive. Of the reasonably priced oils, the best I have found is 0W-20 M1 High Mileage in terms of HTHS. No opinion there. Just data.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Houston, Texas. we see regular summer temps of 98-103 degrees
I did have the $$ for it, but like always...life circumstances change and I ended up going back to M1 0w-20.
I even tried their 0w-40 but HTHS rate wasnt as good

and vtec operates fine. I have 2006 6MT TL. I live in the upper RPM's. because racecar

Huskymaniac

Consider the High Mileage version. It is slightly higher in HTHS and it has a better additive package that, among other things, improves friction and wear.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Good lookin out, Husky!

fsttyms1

Honda doesnt need that viscosity for proper operation of vtec, they went to a thinner viscosity to simply help with the cafe standards. Ive gone as high as 15w40 with zero issues I stick with the M1 EP 5w30 and continue to run 15k intervals even with the higher strung 3.7 i built. (20k intervals when it was a 3.2)

Saintor

You don't say how recent is your car, but if under warranty, I'd just go with 0W20, no matter the other arguments.

22-23 bucks for 5 qt why bother...
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-0...5-qt./17034374

nfnsquared

Meh, 2.70 vs 2.76??

Huskymaniac

Yeah but the viscosity index is also much higher. The oil will be a lot better for those of us in the north and your gas mileage will be better overall. There is no downside to going with the M1 HM 0W-20 over the HM 5W-20 that I can see.

For people who are more religious about HTHS, there is the option of blending oils. I have added M1 0W-40 to M1 HM oils in the past. If one wanted to get an HTHS closer to 3.0 without making it too thick in cold weather and killing your gas mileage, one could go with 1 quart of M1 0W-40 and the remainder M1 HM 0W-20. That blend actually brings you quite close to Redline 5W-20 viscosities.

nfnsquared

Huh? 0w20 HM VI is 172. Regular M1 0w20 VI is 173

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I think you're way over thinking this oil thing. Use any high end 0W-20 synthetic, change it every 7,500 to 10,000 miles, and presto, a J-Series engine will easily outlast the rest of the car.

thoiboi

Huskymaniac

I was talking about the 0W-20 and 5W-20 HM oils. If you were talking about HM versus regular then, yeah, they are close. However, you also get the added benefit of seal conditioners and other additives that are beneficial to older engines.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

That is certainly true if you believe all of the marketing rhetoric; for others High Mileage oils are nothing but a marketing ploy.

Huskymaniac

For cynics, everything is a marketing ploy.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

And for suckers nothing is a marketing ploy.

thoiboi

How about instead of preaching on both sides of the aisle, just employ whatever strategy you want for yourself and let others do the same!

Huskymaniac

And the foolish can't tell the difference.

Huskymaniac

Who is preaching? So, providing information is preaching now? People can't share information and what they are planning on doing and why without insecure folks getting their undies in a bunch? Look in the mirror dude. Werd indeed!

Huskymaniac

This was moved out of the 2nd generation RL forum. That is why I didn't say originally. But, yeah, it is a 2nd generation RL. For that car, the spec is 5w-20. But the 0w-20 seems like a better oil across the board.

The argument for Hondas and Toyotas is always between those who religiously follow the specs from the manufacturer and those who agree with the European manufacturers that the oil needs to be a certain thickness to properly lubricate the engine and, specifically, the engine bearings. I have a Subaru SVX and that car is particularly sensitive to oil viscosity due to how the bearings were designed. When people were using the old M1 5W-30 oils, per the spec, they were running into bearing problems if they were driving hard or tracking the car. The old synthetic oils from Mobil were too thin and the oil was shearing under stress. Eventually, the bearings lost proper lubrication and failed. People moved toward thicker oils and the problem went away. So I am always torn with these modern Hondas and Toyotas because my past experiences say oil should have a minimal thickness. That is where HTHS comes in. For that SVX, I blend oils to get 3.5. But that is was too high for 5W-20 or 0W-20 so, for this car, I am going to shoot for 3.0 by blending in a small amount of 0W-40 to my 0W-20. Compromise.

To those who say I am overthinking this, perhaps. But my experience says no. Oil is the life blood of the engine. It matters, a lot. Change the oil regularly, use good oil, use the proper oil, flush your coolant regularly, use good coolant and use high quality gas and the engine will last a good long time. They all matter but oil is critical.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Foolish, yeah, that's why my engines last way-way longer than the rest of the car. Like I wrote earlier, you're WAY over thinking the oil thing.

Huskymaniac

If I had a medal, I would give it to you. I know people who are clueless about cars have their engines outlive the rest of the car and I know seasoned mechanics who have had their engines die for subtle reasons like the one I mentioned earlier. I don't know why your engines have always outlasted your cars. Maybe you drive like an old lady. Maybe you have been lucky. Maybe you have always used the correct oil for your cars. Maybe you have had cars for which the exact oil is not as critical and you only need to be in the ballpark. Maybe this car is indeed an example of such a car. Whatever.

Personally, I will proceed with caution based on my experience and the experiences of those I know. And I will share what I know and what I learn when I learn it. And you can continue with your "get off my lawn you damn kids" comments on every thread that crinkles your nose. Bottom line, I shared data, you grumbled.

thoiboi

preach
prēCH/
verb
gerund or present participle: preaching
deliver a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people, typically in church.
"he preached to a large congregation"
synonyms: give/deliver a sermon, sermonize, address, speak More
publicly proclaim or teach (a religious message or belief).
"a church that preaches the good news"
synonyms: proclaim, teach, spread, propagate, expound
"he preached the gospel to them"
earnestly advocate (a belief or course of action).
"my parents have always preached toleration and moderation"
synonyms: advocate, recommend, advise, urge, teach, counsel
"they preach toleration"

Huskymaniac

It takes two to Tango, son. Providing data is not preaching but if someone feels compelled to dance, I will dance.

projektvertx

iTrader: (2)

10 people, 10 opinions lol

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I'm thinking Huskymaniac needs to crawl back under that rock he has reserved over on the BITOG site. He'll feel much more at home there.

Nitin

iTrader: (1)

Redline oil and Royal Purple filter

DaIll1

So much so, I get mine custom blended at BND.

Huskymaniac

"Get off my lawn you damn kids!!!"

gt35rdanny

Redline ftw!

csmeance

So is M1 high Mileage better than M1 Extended performance (same oil weights)? How about the new Annual Protection? 20K Mile OCI is should mean pretty good oil! I've been using M1 Extended Performance for about $28 for 5 quarts every 10-15K miles depending on driving styles.

Huskymaniac

I was comparing High Mileage to regular M1, not extended performance M1. You would have to look up the specs on that. EP is a great oil but maybe a (slight) waste of money if you follow the maintenance minder. EP is meant more for those who do those 10-15K intervals, like you mentioned. Just make sure you get an extended performance filter too.

I am going to go with 1 quart of M1 0W-40 blended with 3.5 quarts of M1 High Mileage 0W-20. It will give me an HTHS of over 2.9, a slightly (9%) higher viscosity than M1 5W-20 at 100C, nearly the same viscosity at 40C and lower viscosity at 0C. So I will see little impact on gas mileage but I will have better protection at high temperature and stress conditions. And I will get better performance when it gets cold, which it does up here. Plus I still get a little of the additive pack from the high mileage oil.

What filter is everyone using? I am torn between the M1, Purolator Pure One and Bosch Distance Plus. I am leaning toward the Bosch Distance Plus, even though I follow the maintenance minder, because it is cheaper than the M1 and has better specs.

wackjum

Since you have done the research, can you start at the beginning and provide a summary of what HTHS is, why it is important, what we are looking for, and how you obtain HTHS information?

Huskymaniac

HTHS is a measure of the viscosity of the oil under high temperature/high stress conditions. It is found on the datasheets for the oils, which you can find online. The high temperature/high stress conditions are frequently experienced in the engine bearings. When the viscosity gets too low, the oil shears and breaks down. It also fails to retain a film on the part which means the part (bearing) is no longer lubricated. While most of us never redline our engines, we do, occasionally, get to high RPMs when, say, passing someone or getting onto a busy highway. The European car manufacturers require, in many cases, a minimum HTHS of 3.5. Somehow, the Japanese car manufacturers have gone in the opposite direction and have mandated lower viscosity oils. There are no oils that can cover both requirements. So we are left with "opinions" on who is right and why. Do the engines from Toyota and Honda really "require" a thinner oil? Or are they just built in a way that doesn't require a high HTHS and so they specified thinner oils to get better gas mileage? Or are they focused solely on gas mileage at the expense of engine longevity? People are reporting some great reliability with these engines and, if they are using the specified 5w-20 oil, that may be an indication that these engines don't require higher HTHS with the implication being that they are somehow better than their European counterparts. I can believe that. That is why I am not trying to use an oil that has an HTHS of 3.5. It seems we probably don't need to, unless you race the car. Still, my previous experiences with Subaru have left me weary of really thin oils. So, that is why I will add a quart of 0W-40. It beefs up the high temperature viscosity a little while still giving me good low temperature performance when it gets cold here. But, yeah, it might be unnecessary and M1 0W-20 High Mileage or 5W-20 regular M1 might be just fine.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Me thinks it's time to close this thread.

nfnsquared

Again, I have 267K miles running semi-syn 5w20 and semi-syn 0w20 since after break-in. My MID oil drain intervals are 7500K miles. After almost 14 years, I still have never, ever had to add oil between changes (down 1/2 qt at the absolute maximum).

You'll do fine with either, you don't need additional HTHS protection.

I ran the Purolator Pure 1 until they had the blow out issue, then I switched to the Fram Pro Synthetic (FPS7317). Great synthetic media filter! Bought a case of them for $70 shipped on eBay.