I've had an escort 8500 since 2004, right. Best thing since sliced bread. Now I want to buy a radar detector for my mom, in her TL. I'm deciding on the 8500 again, but a quick check on their website, reveals some updates, since I last purchased mine. The X50 model with POP detection, improved range, and invisiblity to detector, detectors. Now my question is this. Do you guys think all these changes have made my regular old escort obsolete? I mean what is POP detection anyways, and whow can it have better range than it does now?

 

You can send your old 8500 in for an upgrade, I think it costs $80. You need to call Escort customer service to get it.

 

thanks!

 

Look....Just buy the new one, keep it for yourself and give your mom the old one.

 

couldn't agree more. unless your mom's a speed freak- then get her a V1.

 

V1 is my babe

 

You don't need hide from radar detector detectors in IL since radar detector is legal there. Unless you are going to VA/DC or Canada (where I wouldn't use my equipment anyway), that feature is worthless to you.

POP, I got that in my V1. It may not be in widespread use, but it will be one day. So you can pay for it now or pay for it later. Either way, I'm not sure your mother needs it. Give here yours and buy yourself a new one as was suggested. Or even better, upgrade to a V1 and don't look back.

 

those updates don't make your detector obselete, LIDAR makes all of our radars obscelete. I own a Bel Vector 975 remote. I like the remote detectors because there isn't anything sticking on your winshield.


If I remember correctly, POP radar is a radar system that doesnt stay on constantly like with conventional radar guns. Basically, your radar detector goes off because the cop on the side of the road has his gun turned on and is already shooting before you get there. WIth pop, the gun turns on and off as you drive by. This basically means that warning time can be cut down CONSIDERABLY because there isn't even a radar signal until the very end.

 

i have a v1 1.8 just before it got POP protection. The way i see it, if you get hit by POP youre pretty much screwed anyways so it wasnt worth the $50 update fee. I would look into getting a v1. I love mine and love the arrows and i saw this video where they compared the two head to head and the x50 could be defeated by simply shooting the radar real quick, releasing and shooting again

 

I own a Bel Vector 975 also and its great.. nothing in the windshield so its stealth and its fits good in my coin holder in the center console.. also got this one cause im in VA and there illegal to operate but if i cop cant detect and cant find it then he doesnt know i have it...

 

The x50 upgrade is a big improvement over the regular 8500, it puts the 8500 on par with the V1 (unless you want arrows :ghey: ). Buy the x50 and give moms the vanilla 8500.

 

I got mine mounted in my sunglass holder

 

If you mount it out of sight how do you detect laser? I'm sure the range sucks too if you hide the thing somewhere.


In related news, my V1 detected K-band instant on from 1.8 miles away Thursday morning.

 

POP mode is a little bit different. Conventional radar can be used in always-on mode or instant-on mode. Most radar on K and Ka band is used instant-on, the officer operates the radar for a short period of time, enough to get someone's speed. Almost any radar detector can detect radar in always-on mode and if you are close enough and sensitive enough, you can pickup the microwaves in instant-on mode, too.

Instant-on is effective because if you are first one to get hit, it's very difficult to slow down quick enough to avoid getting clocked speeding. POP mode allows that same radar gun to quickly send a burst of microwaves at oncoming traffic to ascertain their speed. This burst or POP cannot be detected so as far as the radar detector is concerned, no radar is operating in the area. When in fact, the officer is silently gather speed information by POPping cars. You'll never know what's up ahead so when you arrive and you get the POP while speeding, the officer will switch to instant-on mode and proceed to obtain a legal, citable clocking on the speeder. If you're like me and can sometimes easily beat the instant-on situation, no big worries. But it's that much harder now since your "first up instant-on" encounters are bound to increase.

What better way for cops than to not have to actually turn on their radar and give away their position until they absolutely have to. Just sit back and read all your undetectable POP readings until one comes back at 15 over, then active your real radar to catch that particular speeder. It doesn't matter if the whole world knows you're there at that point, you've nabbed your target. Once LEO figures this out and radar manufacturers implement this as standard, POP will explode (no pun intended).

 

the sensor is mounted in the bumper

 

Unless your mom is a serious scofflaw she would probably prefer the Passport Solo-2. I have one and like it.

 

IMO get a V1 for yourself..

In other conversation, all radar dectors will eventually be useless. Next year very few states will have a new system in place which calculates your speed from a video camera; it's accurate within 1MPH.

So eventually detecting radar will become useless. Especially since CCD and CMOS camera technology cannot be detected. (unless it's at night and they are using IR to illuminate the road)

Enjoy your detectors while you can... radar speed detection will become a thing of the past. Especially since cheap CCD's, CMOS's chips and small fast processors are becomming of age. Actually faster than you imagine CCD/CMOS speed detecors will be become cheap and affordable, not to mention a video recording of you speeding being sent back to court.

Hopefully we have another good 7-10 years. But I wouldn't count on it... especially in major metro areas.

 

Yeah, but that would only work if they can prove you were driving, otherwise someone could just say it was so and so and that they deserve the ticket. Radar detectors will still be around for awhile and are still great investments for some of us.

Oh, and V1>*

 

No, NOT AT ALL.

This is NOT passive video detection where you get the ticket in the mail. This replaces the radar gun, they pull you over immediately after aiming the device at you.

However passive detection will also be used as you described. Installed at intersections it works in conjunction with current redlight running systems.

Your *assuming* this is like the van they park in the roads now that takes actual FILM shots of you. It is nothing like it... totally different technology... What your talking about uses radar, and when radar detects you speeding it turns on a high speed camera.

This is a REALTIME video camera that detects speed of an object. It's used just like a radar gun. Only difference is a computer processor determines your speed from the CCD/CMOS information.

Sure, it'll take a bit of time for most states/cities to adapt. But CCD/CMOS speed detection technology is WAY cheaper than current radar guns. Look how many devices you see now with CCD/CMOS chips. I.E. cell phones, digital video cameras, instore security cameras. It's cheap technology...

Normally i'd ignore advances like this. But with how cheap CCD/CMOS and small fast processors are now. It'll be 7-10 years and this technology will be widespread in the US. For our sake lets hope something happens to the company thats selling the equipment But, even then it's just a matter of time.... shooting out radio waves and listening to the reflection is just going to be a thing of the past....

Here's just one of the companies that started making a TDS (time distance speed) detector.
http://www.ballingertech.com.au/page11.htm

Unfortunetly there's more of them...

On a postive note, the same technology will be used on cars for safety. They will have video camera on all corners. The computer will watch for incomming objects (mpacts) and be able to deploy the airbags accordiningly...

http://www.freescale.com/files/micro...ote/AN2594.pdf

I'm sure volvo or cadillac will have this 1st. But it'll be commnig soon.

 

^^^Dave, I never imagined this. Can this be used while patrolling/moving? If not, police, especially highway patrol, won't adopt it widespread/wholesale; probably only limited like laser today. I would imagine an RFP from them would require effective and unlimited use while cruising.

IMO the radar will never be replaced in our lifetime. I'll check back with you in 7 years. I remember 10 years ago when the laser was supposed to have taken over by now.

 

Nope. This system is not the unattended-camera type that lots of cities have installed at intersections to catch red-light runners. This is a hand-held camera which the cop aims at the target vehicle while looking through a view-finder. The camera's electronics compares the rate of change of the image of the target vehicle to a fixed image of known size, and calculates the target vehicle's speed from that. Just like VASCAR, it's undetectable because it emits no radio waves.

 

VASCAR never really caught on widespread. Even though it is foolproof and detectorless. I am told it was too cumbersome, didn't generate enough tickets per hour/day, and the whole average speed thing.... why use something like this when you can bring out the old radar gun and catch speeders all days long? Cops really don't care about defeating radar detectors. But using radar is like shooting fish in a barrel. VASCAR, airplanes, lasers, pacing, all that will be secondary to radar.....

IMO, I imagine this handheld camera radar (with all that setup time) will never see practical widespread field use.

 

Problem with laser technology is the price for the IR laser same with KA and POP guns (RF equipment). I expect this to be adopted a lot quicker. My guess is 10 years... CCD/CMOS devicies are CHEAP, you see them everywhere already. Just take a look up at the stop lights and you'll see all the cameras.

Ya, to say not in our lifetime is a bit extreme I think. But I agree were not going to wake up tomorrow and see it.

Airports already have cameras setup with a facial recognition compurter systems. I know the LA airport has it for sure in testing.

Ya, your not alone Ken. When I read about it earlier this year, and it's (limited) planned deployment for next year I was SHOCKED.

But starting next year officers in California and NY will have this technology.

 

It uses a laser to setup it's distance/calibrate. So it's pretty instantaneous on the some of the models I read about.

 

 

i dont know about all areas of the country but i do know for a fact that Laser also called Lidar has become something that the police departments in Fairfax and Loudoun Co. in Northern VA are using alot..

I see them all the time sitting on the side of the road pointing the gun at specific cars and then pretty much walking into the road to make the car pull over and stop, if they dont walk into the street to stop the car then another cop car is up ahead some ready to pull you over.

 

Yah...but you should know that radar detectors are illegal in VA. VA and all their shit pisses me off. Yearly inspections and shit.

 

 

what is not ILLEGAL in the state of Virginia??? Virginia is the state ive ever lived in..

 

CA has some crap ass laws too

 

VASCAR never caught on because it was NOT foolproof. Cops could cheat it easily. Turn off the "time" switch too early, or turn off the "distance" switch too late, and VASCAR would indicate a faster speed.

The whole problem with shit like this is that speed limits are not set realistically or with any regard to safety. Instead, too many of them are set artifically low in order to generate revenue, which in turn justifies the salaries of cops, judges, court clerks and the rest of the traffic enforcement system, and ultimately feeds city, town and state budgets. There's no reason on earth why Interstate highways, designed to be safe at 70 mph in the 1950s, can't be posted with higher limits today, except that it would interrupt the flow of money.

And let's face it, folks: If they were REALLY serious about not letting anyone "speed," every car would be equipped with a radio-controlled speed governor, triggered by radio transmitters by the side of the road. It's all too obvious that they need the money from speeding fines. Period.

And before someone comes back with "speed kills," congratulations for letting yourself be sucked in by the safety and insurance lobbyists, who gain millions of dollars for their companies each year in jacked-up insurance rates charged to "speeders" when there's not a single bit of evidence that speeding by itself makes someone a higher insurance risk. "Speed kills" is a lie. First, it's not the speed that kills, it's the stop. Second, if speed kills, why do jumbo jets travel at 550 mph and above, and have a stellar safety record? Why do the German autobahnen, half the total mileage of which is speed-limit-free, have a death rate slightly lower than the death rate on American Interstates? Third, there is a world of difference between going too fast for conditions and exceeding an arbitrary number posted by the side of the road. Doing 70 mph in a heavy rain or blizzard, 45 in a residential area or street racing anywhere are insane and ought to be punished. But being pulled over and cited for going 80 on an Interstate highway in the year 2005, providing that conditions are good, the road is dry, and there's not too much other traffic? That's just stupid.

</rant_mode>

 

^^^Of course a cop can lie about VASCAR but he can lie about what he saw on his radar. When operated correctly, VASCAR is [nearly] perfect, it cannot lie because it's a computer and it only calculates whatever is input to it. On the other hand, radar makes errors because the doppler principle is prone to a lot of different types of errors when using it to target and track speeding vehicles. But VASCAR cannot pull over 20 cars per hours.....

I understand your argument about the speed limits and all, but I've heard that before..about speed kills. That's from the past generation when the limits were 55. In case you haven't checked, the speed limits have been raised. You can go over 70 on just about every Interstate that I know of today.

But this is not a speed kills argument. And it's not all about revenue because some departments depend on it, and some don't. You surprise me with your jumbo jet analogy and the fatality rate....which clearly can't be compared. Pilots are trained, the equipment is well maintained and capable of those speeds, pilots slow down for conditions, and the air traffic is well regulated and controlled, there are no physical barriers in the sky, and the penalties are stiff if you are caught (which you will be because it's all tracked). How can you compare a flight from LAX to Phoenix the same as a roadtrip down I10? Do aircraft exceed 35mph on the tarmac? If everyone drove down the freeway from LA to Phoenix as if they were pilots in an aircraft in a flight pattern, the fatality rate would be near 0.

Today I am fine with the speed limits everywhere. Maybe it's because I live in a community where speed traps aren't on every block; you can drive a little bit faster almost whenever you wish, and everybody is not in a total rat race making it easier for me.

 

Not in the northeast. 65 is the highest limit around here, and it's a joke. The last time Massachusetts raised its speeding fines, our governor was at least honest enough to say that the state needed the money.

If speed limits were set realistically according to traffic engineering principles, instead of some politician's idea of what was "safe," we wouldn't be having this discussion at all, because the cops wouldn't need ever more sophisticated speed measuring equipment to raise revenue with.

Wrong. EVERY department depends on it, to some extent. Salaries, cars, radar units, uniforms, training, weapons and all the rest have to be paid for somehow. Most municipalities have figured out that speeding fines are usually enough to pay for at least some of it...and in some communities, speeding fines pay for ALL of it.

It's the constant "speed kills" drumbeat that's been pounded into our heads for several generations, when it's demonstrably false.

I hope you don't have the misfortune of coming into Connecticut when they run their now-infamous speed enforcement weekends. You get cited for one...yes, ONE...mph over the limit.

The bottom line is that I don't like being lied to by public servants, whose salaries I pay through taxes. I don't like being told that speed limits are set for my safety, when it's a lie and all they want is my money. I don't like the constant guessing game that goes on when I'm driving (gee, how fast can I go today? will they cite me for five over, ten over, none over?), because the posted limits are unrealistic and almost universally ignored. I don't like the substantial number of communites in the US that rely on speeding fine revenues to the point where the entire municipal budget is determined by those fines, which smears communities like yours where speeding isn't a huge issue.

The saddest part of all this is that licensed drivers are the largest single special-interest group in this country...if only they knew it. If just one tenth of them decided to get pissed off about this stuff, things would change.

 

Hehe, ok right. Speeding tickets are a part of our budget, of course. But we don't "depend" on it. If everybody drove the speed limit, our PD isn't going to go broke. Sorry to hear about CT, so just drive the speed limit, what's so hard about that? :P

I guess PD should stop writing parking tickets, too, huh?

BTW, I've read all those books about speed, revenue, and everything, and seen the TV programs; I've heard that all before. I think it's blown out of proportion myself. My 2 cents.

 

VASCAR is huge in PA.
I think we’re the only state in the country that local cops aren’t allowed to use RADAR or LASER.
So that means every local-yokal township has white lines painted all over the roads.
You’ve got to keep your eyes open and become familiar with all the local speed traps even if you have a V1 on duty.

 

Do you have any friends whom are police officers/city workers? I'm going to guess the answer is "no" from you responce.

City makes a large percentage of it's income from local citations/fines.

Ken 1/2 the reason you can double your fine and get off 2 speeding tickets a year here is because they make more $$ doing it. Not because they are nice people...

I don't think you quite have a good understaning of how much money is really taken in local citations/fines.

b.t.w. the 2005 budget can probably be found on-line. I remember reading it last year. Expected citations/court fines.. yadda yadda accounted for (if I remember correctly) 15% of the budget. Which b.t.w is 200M+ (this is only for Overland park) Around $230M if I remembef correctly.

I consider that a good chunk of change...

If you follow last year when they added the new fleet of motorcyles and wrote out 200+ citations in one area in 8 hours. Showing how the new fleet easily pays for itself in money made from fines. (b.t.w that was an article in the sunday paper and it was only 8 officers)

So lets say $20,000 a day * 365= 7.3M dollars, saying they only write 200 fines/citations a day, and thats nothing... and I'm assuming the fines are only $100 (ROFL, right...) You do know how many traffic court cases happen daily right? and thats not including all the parking fines... basic citations which don't require court.

Sure, that $$ is a drop in the bucket for a big city, however it's a significant percentage here in KS.

We're way OT at this point though...

 

Cali and NY will start using that video speed detection system next year

 

I think we're all thinking the same thing basically. I just took exception to the "ALL pd's depend on speeding ticket revenue". I just didn't consider 15% to be significant so I believed "SOME pd's depend on speeding ticket revenue"...but only a few. I think 80 or 90% is huge because there are some small counties like in Ohio, they have a freeway running thru one county and all the cops do is write tickets all day long from there, the money pays for the 4 new police cars, 10 full-time officers, firearms/ammo/training, etc. That's huge. 15% is not that big of a percentage, I think our taxes go for the most. So we know traffic speeding citation money goes into the kitty, but if Kansas speeders quit speeding, the PDs are far from going under like other smaller department might. The cops won't have to go out and pound the pavement for more speeders just so they can eat.

Check this out, if you can believe them, they might be fudging a bit...but read the last paragraph: http://www.kansashighwaypatrol.org/facts/violations.htm

I understand Kansas is different. But I also read that a lot of states have set limits to prevent their small towns from abusing interstate travelers.

OK is trying to get it under control and has it mostly taken care of: http://www.officer.com/article/artic...&siteSection=1

So does http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbc...504050339/1006

Here's an interesting article on FL speeders: http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbc...504050339/1006

And it seems like some cities can actually live without the speeding ticket revenue being that their percentages are so so low: http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbc...504050340/1006

Delaware has a problem but with dozens of PDs, I doubt they are ALL making a killing; some are even down to 4%: http://www.officer.com/article/artic...&siteSection=1

My whole point is there's no cause for alarm. The few places that are abusing probably need some looking into, but for the most part speeding ticket revenue in America is not out of line or unfair to motorists. IMO of course.

 

wow, lots of stuff to read.

your 1st link is for the Kansas Highway Patrol not the local PD. So NO clue on that one... I don't even know what their specific jursidiction is? interstates?

lol, I might have time to read more later tonight finishing some work.