Pontiac Beat the Competition?
06-17-2005, 11:54 AM
#1
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Pontiac Beat the Competition?
On June 12th the GTO and Grand Prix GXP took on the competition at Watkin's Glen.
Those acceleration times are sketchy. No surprise at the GTO's performance but the Grand Prix leaves me wondering.
http://speedtv.com/pontiac/
Unequivocally, undeniably, and most important, unmistakably, the Pontiac GTO and Grand Prix GXP were not only competitive, but outright winners, against the likes of BMW, Nissan, Ford and Infiniti. Conducted for an exclusive Speed Channel event and certified by the Sports Car Club of America, the Pontiac GTO and Grand Prix GXP proved best in acceleration, quarter-mile and the composite road test to name a few. Proving without a doubt, they can take on some of today's best performance machines - and beat them at their own game.
In early spring of 2005, Pontiac asked Pro Formance Driving Events (PFDE) to perform independent performance testing on both the 2005 GTO and Grand Prix GXP against the 2005 Nissan Maxima SE, 2005 Infiniti G35 sedan, and BMW 330ia. Testing consisted of the quarter mile acceleration, 600’ slalom, and a composite handling course (road course). Pro Formance brought in the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) as another qualified third-party representative, to observe and validate all testing procedures.
Those acceleration times are sketchy. No surprise at the GTO's performance but the Grand Prix leaves me wondering.
http://speedtv.com/pontiac/
06-17-2005, 12:02 PM
#3
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Originally Posted by Minch00
Something seems wrong to me when your car is "the best" but only has a 4spd automatic 
something seems wrong when people judge the car because it has a 4 spd auto, really shows they don't realize that it doesn't really matter
4 speed or 5 speed auto doesn't matter, so you just put in the right gearing. Hell what the CL-S's 5 speed tops out still in 4th right? So essentially 4th and 5th are almost overdrive, correct?
I think the GXP concept is fucking retarded, 323 lb ft w/ FWD? It's going to be VERY interesting to see these transaxles hold up.
06-17-2005, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Scrib
The whole event was sponsored by Pontiac, so I'm not surprised.
well that, and it was all just performance testing, so i'm not suprised the pontiacs won. the #'s show they better
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06-17-2005, 12:05 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by Scrib
And if it is legit, the drivers are fucking retarded if they can't squeeze a low 14 run out of either G35.
look at all the cars times, everyone was running slow, new GT mustangs are turning mid 13's, GTO's are turning low 13's, etc, etc.
06-17-2005, 12:05 PM
#9
Administrator Alumnus
Originally Posted by CLpower
well that, and it was all just performance testing, so i'm not suprised the pontiacs won. the #'s show they better
Looks like the G35 sedan was a better car sans the straightline acceleration.
06-17-2005, 12:18 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by CLpower
look at all the cars times, everyone was running slow, new GT mustangs are turning mid 13's, GTO's are turning low 13's, etc, etc.
But those numbers are typically run by MT's. These cars were all AT's.
06-17-2005, 12:35 PM
#11
Pit Stop?
Originally Posted by CLpower
something seems wrong when people judge the car because it has a 4 spd auto, really shows they don't realize that it doesn't really matter
4 speed or 5 speed auto doesn't matter, so you just put in the right gearing. Hell what the CL-S's 5 speed tops out still in 4th right? So essentially 4th and 5th are almost overdrive, correct?
I think the GXP concept is fucking retarded, 323 lb ft w/ FWD? It's going to be VERY interesting to see these transaxles hold up.
4 speed or 5 speed auto doesn't matter, so you just put in the right gearing. Hell what the CL-S's 5 speed tops out still in 4th right? So essentially 4th and 5th are almost overdrive, correct?
I think the GXP concept is fucking retarded, 323 lb ft w/ FWD? It's going to be VERY interesting to see these transaxles hold up.
Well, when we now have 6 and even 7 speed autos, it just seems like GM isn't trying very hard to keep up with anyone else. Yes I know it performs the same and is a "bulletproof" tranny, but that doesn't change the fact it's old technology. Even the Mustang has a 5speed! Also, to only get 300hp out of a 5.3L V8 seems a bit sad to me, since Nissan can get that same number out of a naturally aspirated 3.5L V6.
06-17-2005, 12:44 PM
#12
Outnumbered at home
Seems pretty stupid that they don't have all of the cars in their most performace oriented trim if they are doing a performance oriented test.
Put manuals in the all those cars that offer them. Have a feeling the G35 would win every category.
stupid test from a pretty worthless automaker
Put manuals in the all those cars that offer them. Have a feeling the G35 would win every category.
stupid test from a pretty worthless automaker
06-17-2005, 12:52 PM
#13
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roadcourse times and slalom speed were not that much better even with more hp.
the grand prix was 3rd out of the 4
and the gto was 3rd slowest also thru the slalom, quickest around the track but by only .1 second
prett poor for all that power
the grand prix was 3rd out of the 4
and the gto was 3rd slowest also thru the slalom, quickest around the track but by only .1 second
prett poor for all that power
06-17-2005, 12:52 PM
#14
'Big Daddy Diggler'
Originally Posted by dom
But those numbers are typically run by MT's. These cars were all AT's.
06-17-2005, 01:04 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by Minch00
Well, when we now have 6 and even 7 speed autos, it just seems like GM isn't trying very hard to keep up with anyone else. Yes I know it performs the same and is a "bulletproof" tranny, but that doesn't change the fact it's old technology. Even the Mustang has a 5speed! Also, to only get 300hp out of a 5.3L V8 seems a bit sad to me, since Nissan can get that same number out of a naturally aspirated 3.5L V6.
GM doesn't need to change it, there is really no reason. Their trannies are proven to be some of the best in the industry. The 4 speed really isn't hindering the car at all, why waste time trying to develop something new when it's not needed?
And the whole V8 vs V6 power things is a dumb argument, if GM wanted too they could get a WHOLE lot more out of the motor, but what would be the point? It's a FWD car. Why can't honda get more out of their 3.0, etc, etc. Just a null argument.
06-17-2005, 01:06 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by dallison
roadcourse times and slalom speed were not that much better even with more hp.
the grand prix was 3rd out of the 4
and the gto was 3rd slowest also thru the slalom, quickest around the track but by only .1 second
prett poor for all that power
the grand prix was 3rd out of the 4
and the gto was 3rd slowest also thru the slalom, quickest around the track but by only .1 second
prett poor for all that power
the GTO also weighs almost 3900 lbs. The thing is a pig, I thought about one until I got to slam one around, it just weighs way to much
. And I also agree with VB, good they won but I would not buy apontiac any time soon.
06-17-2005, 01:13 PM
#20
Pit Stop?
Originally Posted by CLpower
And the whole V8 vs V6 power things is a dumb argument, if GM wanted too they could get a WHOLE lot more out of the motor, but what would be the point? It's a FWD car. Why can't honda get more out of their 3.0, etc, etc. Just a null argument.
Then why even use the V8? Or for that matter, such a large one? Why not use a V6, and maybe have better fuel economy
06-17-2005, 01:30 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Minch00
Then why even use the V8? Or for that matter, such a large one? Why not use a V6, and maybe have better fuel economy
no clue, i'm not GM, as i've stated I think the car is stupid
06-17-2005, 02:48 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by dom
I can't think of anything else besides low costs and maybe low repair costs for GM's decesion to stick with pushrods for everything but Caddy.
that and their pushrod engines seem to be pretty damn good. Why replace them now?
What would the benefit be to go to something else? Nothing.
06-17-2005, 03:55 PM
#24
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I saw this comparo on TV.... what a bunk ass segment.... 6.0 and 13.9 out of a 400hp car is ridiculous - I don't care how heavy it is. Why does a E55 with only 70 more hp run low 4's and 12.3? that may not be a fair analogy, but still.
and the sad part is, GM probably looks at the same "results" and thinks, wow, our cars really are waayyyy better than those pesky imports!!!!
that may not be a fair analogy, but still.and the sad part is, GM probably looks at the same "results" and thinks, wow, our cars really are waayyyy better than those pesky imports!!!!
06-17-2005, 03:58 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by CLpower
that and their pushrod engines seem to be pretty damn good. Why replace them now?
What would the benefit be to go to something else? Nothing.
What would the benefit be to go to something else? Nothing.
- Refinement
- Power
To name a few.....
06-18-2005, 12:13 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by dom
- Fuel ecomony
- Refinement
- Power
To name a few.....
- Refinement
- Power
To name a few.....
I don't know, the LS1, LS2, LS6, and LS7 don't seem to be down on that
our vette has seen 30+ mpg on road trips
fuel economy has more to do w/ gearing
I don't see much of a problem w/ the power they are making or the refinement, if it works it works, still don't see many benefits to changing things.
06-18-2005, 12:14 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by srika
I saw this comparo on TV.... what a bunk ass segment.... 6.0 and 13.9 out of a 400hp car is ridiculous - I don't care how heavy it is. Why does a E55 with only 70 more hp run low 4's and 12.3? that may not be a fair analogy, but still.
:
that may not be a fair analogy, but still.:
as mentioned, none of these cars ran what they should of. GTO's have been proven low 13 second cars, GT's are mid 13's, the G's should be low 14's
and FYI, the E55 is underrated, they are dynoing about 430 and up as high as 450 stock. That's over 550 to the crank.
06-18-2005, 09:26 PM
#31
'Big Daddy Diggler'
Knock on wood, my buddies Trans Am has around 200k miles on it with not one issue. He has changed his timing chain, water pump and maintains the car regularly. He also has ported ls6 heads, more agressive cam, headers, ls6 intake manifold, throttleb body, ct back, and moremods wih a tune. He runs consistant 10's on his stock auto 4 speed and stock short block. That says alot about GM trannies and GM small block motors. BTW i made an LS1 GTO my bitch in my Trans Am.
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