brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I was just posting on what i read its not like i know more about your accident than what is posted here.

Red Rider

Agreed ! The A4 is nice but WAY overpriced imho. Most of us here looked at the A4 but couldn't justify the extra 5K or so. I got beat off the line by a minivan during a test drive of a 1.8T for my wife, what a dog !! She ended up with the MDX

NOVAwhiteTypeS

a4 in the stock form is kinda heavy and under powered but w/ a RS body kit and some tuning the things a blast!

Seattle Cl-S

My .02:

I lapped my buddy twice on a 2.5 mile track. He drives an A4 1.8T quattro manual with sport package. My car isn't stock, but Audi's superior handling did absolutely NOTHING for him. I'd say the actual gains in handling are quickly outweighed by the lack of engine punch. BTW, he wasn't the only 1.8T at the track and they all suffered the same fate. Beautiful car though...inside and out.

scalbert

I am glad you are pleased with your purchase; but please stop coming across like you have significant automotive knowledge. You do remember that the domain name here is about a CL?? People will make outlandish comments at times when comparing the main vehicle to others which I try to ignore. But you seem too quick to attack the CL at the slightest negative comment about something you prefer.

The differences in interiors have more to do with style than quality. I prefer my BMW's interior over the A4's and is a valid comparison but I do find the A4 to be very attractive nonetheless. Both have a very Germanic look and feel which is the idea.

The CL-S has a typical, albeit cleaner, Japanese look and feel. Many of the materials are softer with more of an organic look.

But to make the Pontiac comparison is pure crap. Pontiac typically uses very hard materials with large gaps in the switchgear. Nothing like what is in either of the two subject vehicles. Please draw the parallel for the comparison. I understand it was a weighted comparison but one which has no bearing.

scalbert

This is indicative of what I have so far witnessed at Road Atlanta and up in the Mountains. Too many people talk about hypothetical abilities or that they know by the feel, but never test it at the track to know for sure.

Aquineas

I drove an S4 once on a curvy mountain road(the 2.8 twin turbo one), and it was able to negotiate the turns better than my 1999 Mustang Cobra with Eibach Pros. That was one helluva machine.

russianDude

amirsafdari, the only reason you praise A4 is because you own it and you need to make yourself feel good about your purchase.
While I'd get A4 v6 over CLS, I think A4 1.8T v4 can not be compared to CLS. CLS wins by all factors. 1.8T is overpriced just like all german cars.
Besides Audi got very bad consumer reviewes for long term reliability, known for electronics problems.

ferizzo

Thats what some of the other people are doing about their CLS so don't single out Amir. He prefers his A4 over the CLS, so what! I don't agree with some of his comments but I also don't agree with some other people's comments either but we're all entitled to them.

I'd definitely get the 1.8T over the 3.0 A4! Both are pretty slow stock (at least slower than the TLS/CLS), but the 1.8T is a great engine that can be pretty heavily modded. Audi has also been doing better quality wise in recent years whereas I still here plenty of people bitching about rattles and trannies on this forum.

amir was here

i have every right to say the things i say, since i have OWNED both cars...not test driven, but OWNED both, not had a friend that bla blah but OWNED both cars.

tmk70

I agree Fred...I test drove the 3.0 before I bought my G...it was an absolute DOG. The 1.8T feels quicker stock for stock than the 3.0 and is way more moddable.

russianDude

I test drove 1.8T and did not like it, with all the options it would cost almost like my CLS (maybe 1-2 K less). But it was smaller and less powerfull.
Audi also got bad reliability issues with electrical systems, quality of Audi is not better than Acura CLS. (look at jdpowers.com). It probably rattles less than CLS, but 1.8T has softer suspension compared to CLS so how can you really compare.

ferizzo

To tell the truth I would have gotten the G over both also!

Ray Khan

are you sure about this? There is a pattern? The whole idea of the rear fog is if there are 2 lights, then it's negates it purpose and it looks like bright tail lights or brakelights. Having one fog let's makes it more noticeable...the whole point of a fog light.



if you are lapping people, you are obviously a much better driver. If drivers are equal between cars of similar capabilites, then lap times should be with in a few seconds assuming equal drivers but unequal cars. I have friends that lap porsche turbos on road courses with their A4's. And I'm taling B5 A4's. Granted they are modified cars, but nonetheless the porsche would walk all over them with better drivers.


as for GTKrockeTT and the original post....you do have some good points. And your comparison thread was good too...although I'll take the Acura Bose over any system Audi offers for Audio. The Audi is underpowered and pricey compared to a TLS or CLS. But look at is this way. Most Audi buyers aren't always comparing to a TLS or CLS. Especiually the enthusiasts. They are comparing to BMW where Audi has a value advantage. I think if Acuras were available in manual tranny's sooner, then these comsumers would be more apt to look at the acuras.

As for the people who have contributed very little to this thread by saying very much....don't think that some car and driver 0-60 is the way to judge a car. I bought my car for these reasons:

MODABILITY, AWD, manual tranny and asthetics in that order.

The CLS only had the least important to me and the second least important to me after I bought my car. Doesn't mean I don't still love the CLS. Hate my car all you want.

ferizzo

Don't forget that little problem we have with the tranny! Then again we have more power so what do you expect

Ray Khan

[QUOTEIt probably rattles less than CLS, but 1.8T has softer suspension compared to CLS so how can you really compare.

QUOTE]

not the sport package on the new (B6 chasis) A4's....this car really handles well. I can't imagine it's softer than any CLS.

CCns24

Well, I guess I'll throw my hat in this too (I'm bored). So, like amir, I have also owned a CL-S and now own an Audi A4 1.8t without quattro. I liked my CL-S and I also like my Audi. Both have their good and bad points. But both are great cars. So what, the Audi has 100hp less. Oh no, no more racing POS civics or any other crappy little car with a 4" muffler and stickers in my CL-S. The CL-S had great power. The A4 has a bit more interior refinement and in my opinion has a much nicer look on the exterior also.

HP doesn't = better car. A Viper has ridiculous amounts of HP, but the interior is just blah. And the quality also comes into question. Same with the new Lambo Murceliago. $280+K and there have been a number of owners complaining about breaking off the gear shifter cause it is weak and is too tall.

All I am saying is they are both nice cars for what you pay for them. You could drive either one of them anywhere and feel proud to own one.

Leave it at that.....

No back to the flame war

CrockPot

it basically comes down to this...

everyone on this forum (except for trolls) most likely owned/leased a CL/CL-S or their TL counterparts at some point in time. we've probably come to appreciate some excellent qualities of the vehicle, and i'm sure some have had to live with its pitfalls as well.

no one who is defending the A4's strengths is doing so to bash the CL, but more so to compare/justify that the A4 is not a "POS." so, can we please drop this argument for this month...and save it for next month's saga? :P

scalbert

Actually, some of the statements suggest otherwise.

CrockPot

the two that i have heard are cheaper interior and inferior handling. we all know of the CL's shortcomings when it comes to balance...oh, and there's that FWD thing.

on the flip side, i don't think anyone's denied that the A4 1.8T is slow as hell in stock form either, but it shines in other areas...just as the CL does. i don't know if that is bashing, it's joint pointing out some relatively obvious flaws. but, has anyone here been claiming that the CL-S is POS and not worth the money? maybe i missed it?!?

ferizzo

Well this comment can be considered calling the CLS a POS, "the cls has a pontiac interior when compared to the interior quality of the A4"

CrockPot

but, i like pontiac's interior...

Ray Khan

the interior materials thing is just someting I don't get. It falls into the "they are faster, but you'll lose him in the curvesvxc" or vxc"they are faster, unless you race in the snow or rainm,." comments. I think the CL/TL interior materials are great. I love the dark wood trim. I think the leather seats are better in the Acuras than in A4's as well. The other thing I would knock on the CL/Tl for is the riding position. I like to sit low and no car with power seats let's me get as low as I like. The 1.8T A4's only have manual adjust seats which suit me well...there is a ton of adjustability...just no lumbar adjust until 2001 and a definite lack of support unless you opt for the cloth sport seats.

scalbert

You're the one...

scalbert

I think ferizzo highlighted one instance. But regardless of what one's opinions of Pontiac, the original comment was meant to be a slam.

r10apple

I always like this arguement...
I will say my test-drive of the Audi 1.8t was awesome. It is slower, but will outhandle my TL-S any day of the week. Even with my mods, the TL-S could not outhandle it. My only bi+ch was simple: While my dealer was more than happy to sell and install chips, exhausts, kits--all kinds of a/m stuff, they would not WARRANTY any of it. They would provide follow-up service and a higher rate as well. It was total BS and they were total snobs about it as well...
I knew I'd be beating the shi+ out of the car, and wanted some sort of warranty help if something goes wrong, and Audi would not step up. I was stuck as well as they are the only dealer within 100miles of here. Otherwise, I'da been on teh A4 forum with a 1.8t and some mods and have been bappy...

scalbert

Agreed, which brings up a point; do some people here know what handling really is?? Or do they assume a cars ultimate ability solely based on a perception or general feel??

I will not pretend that the CL-S is an incredible handling vehicle; it is not. It is a touring coupe and does that job very well. But when needed it can doing fairly well but is harder to drive fast through the turns. It takes a more skilled driver to get the most out of it. Whereas my E46 BMW was easy to drive fast and to a lesser extent, the A4’s I have tracked. Because a car is easier to drive fast does not mean it is ultimately faster. The feel associated with the CL-S may cause people to back off sooner than they would in the other mentioned vehicles thus limiting the potential.

So concerning the lapping of A4’s by a CL-S; this would mean that the A4 drivers were very limited in their ability or Seattle CL-S is a very good driver. Or maybe that the difference in vehicles handling prowess isn't as great as some make it out to be. It just takes a better driver to utilize what the CL-S has available.

Oh, and to those stating that you need to own both cars in order to know need to hold it a bit. First, the CL-S6 is very different than the automatic counterpart so according to the statements made, no one here has both and cannot compare. Lastly, and as I have said before, taking an on-ramp at 20 MPH over the posted limit is not a way to test the ability, take it to a track or they might consider restraining from brash comments.

CrockPot

fair enough...but, it's no more a slam than the comments that have been thrown out about the A4. true, this is a CL board, so it goes without saying that this is the ride that will be defended first and foremost, but it is also an enthusiast's board, and many current and long-time members have owned and are owning non-CL, and non-Acura cars now. if anyone is bashing a vehicle, there is bound to be someone who is going to defend it (i'm sure there's some closet pontiac lovers here somewhere...bueller?) :P.

scalbert

I agree but IMO, the responses should be better presented without negative tones. A person can defend something without coming back with completely off-base statements.

Oh well, I guess we can go about things in a civilized manner knowing what roles the individual vehicles play.

Ray Khan

good points scalbert....how many people here do you think know what 5/10. 8/10, 10/10 means? Handling is about how the car responds at it's limits...I would hope people who have not been on a road course or even an autox don't know about the limits of their cars.

hemants

I have both. I'd say the TLS could afford to have better balance and the 1.8T could afford to have more horsepower.

I guess you don't get a perfect car in that price range so it all depends what you'd rather give up.

BoostTed

Car_addict

this is a completely unintelligent crowd here.

First of all, the Audi 1.8t would compare to an Accord V-4, if you want to compare base to base, compare the 3.0 A4 to the CLS.
(both v6's). The Audi will pull 1 car off the launch on the Acura, no question about it, not only is there WAY to much spin-out on the stock CLS, the front rake is horrid, not to mention it's heavier, the Quattro KILLS off the launch. now as far as power, the Audi has 220 HP compared to 260 (but the Audi has a lighter frame). Now I remember the part about TORQUE, well this "underpowered" audi as you say has the SAME torque output of 262. now here is where it gets good:

Audi A4 3.0 QUATTRO: 0-60= 6.9 secs. quarter mile= 15.2
Acura CLS : 0-60= 6.6 secs. quarter mile= 14.9

- and the 3.0 ONLY comes in a 6-speed. (to those thinkin' that 6-speeds are some crazy thing, yet the 911 is still a 5-speed)

as far as BRAKING, the Acura CLS is horrible, especially in ice/snow.

The 3.0 comes with leather STANDARD. (those saying the A4 doesn't).

Transmission SUCKS in the CLS (look at how they built the automatic, eww!)

seeing how a 4-door SEDAN can keep up with your 2-door CLS COUPE!!, I'd say Audi isn't too UNDERPOWERED.

That said, the CLS is DONE for, it looks like the TOYOTA SOLARO, anyone thinking it doesn't needs glasses.. its the CLOSEST looking thing to your CONTEMPORARY LUXURY. The transmission SUCKs, and thats the #2 component on the car..ouch

Why does the CLS look like it needs 2 back doors ? It's the most out-of-place looking coupe EVER, it's a YACHT, nuthing sporty about the style at ALL.

The CLS is NOT for car enthusiasts, the moddability of the CLS is WAY to minimal. The 1.8T is $26,000 base, with $5,000 in mods it will DESTROY a stock CLS. It's a joke the amount of MODS and body kits available for the CLS.

So here we have it, a SEDAN that keeps RIGHT up (0.3 diff. in Quarter Mile), to a 2-door type-S COUPE!!

Underpowered?

not too mention the CL style looks like GARBAGE, no wonder they are taking it off the market, it's obvious Acura needs to make a better coupe, and has anyone seen Audi's new COUPES?? ( I assume not, or else you guys would feel REAL stupid)

try running a upper 13 sec quarter mile on your CL... it's being done DAILY on 1.8T quattros, goto www.audiworld.com , look at the DYNO's

FUGLY award goes to the CLS today.

tmk70

Shawn S

IBT------------L

hemants

Car Addict, some good objective and subjective info there...
But to someone on a budget, it is meaningless to compare two cars based only on displacement.

The 1.8T and CLS are at the same price point and at that price point, the 1.8T accelleration leaves MUCH to be desired.

$500 on suspension mods on the CLS and it is a far superior car to a STOCK 1.8T. At the same time, $500 chip mod on the 1.8T and it is a far superior car to the CLS.

Acura dealers are far more mod friendly than Audi dealers.

In the end, as I said, neither is a perfect vehicle but both are damn fine. You can love the looks and hate the other but I suspect that some of that is posturing simply to make a point.

P.S. 1 post eh? Go back to Audiworld LOL

Legendary91

One thing guys.... The A4 is still here... The CL is being discontinued...

Does that say something?

scalbert

Yes, I rarely seen another CL on the road whereas I see ten plus A4s daily.

scalbert

You paint a very nice self portrait.

Car_addict

.. When comparing PERFORMANCE, you have to compare class to class (v-6 to v-6). That said:

Ive seen 400 + Horsepower a4's running 11 second quarter miles, and looking good while doing it."

"dont compare the B6 A4 to a CL-S.

cause the A4 wins in every category, except for speed.

the cls has a pontiac interior when compared to the interior quality of the A4

imho, A4 interior looks better

A4 definetly will outhandle ANY cls

assembled in Germany

btw, Quattro, is not a small advantage by any means.

My car sticks to the road in turns, twists, whatever LIKE GLUE..
And winter driving is amazing.

and like Jens said, A4 is selling like hotcakes...while the CL, is a failure.

after owning my A4 for only 6 months, i would NEVER go back to Acura. For now...Only bmw and audi really offers what I consider to be a well made vehicle, with the goodies i enjoy."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

this is just your fellow CLS drivers response..

Don't even start with the suspension, Acura is CHEAP, the A4 has a fully independent 4-point double wishbone suspension, does the CLS, nope. The CLS is WAAY to heavy and too long to excell in handling, and heavy like a mo-fo too.

lets talk class for class... how does the CLS compare to OTHER
sport coupes.. HMMMM... LAST PLACE sound good?