New 3 Series Question
01-31-2005, 09:04 AM
#1
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New 3 Series Question
Are both the upcoming 325 and 330 using 3L engines or is the 325 using a 2.5L engine as in previous years?
Every article I've read thus far lists the 325 as having a 2.5L engine but that may be because the articles are from europe. BMW.com also lists the new 325 as having a 2,497 ccm egine?
But according to BMW USA's site:
Every article I've read thus far lists the 325 as having a 2.5L engine but that may be because the articles are from europe. BMW.com also lists the new 325 as having a 2,497 ccm egine?
But according to BMW USA's site:
Innovation at its best: BMW’s new six-cylinder engines.
BMW is also presenting a new family of engines that set new standards in every respect. The new inline-six gasoline engines with more power, greater fuel economy and lower weight than their predecessors are the lightest six-cylinders in their segment.
Apart from fully variable VALVETRONIC valve drive in place of a conventional throttle, there are numerous other advancements which include the composite magnesium/aluminum crankcase, lightweight camshafts, the electric water pump, the fully controlled oil pump, single-belt drive and the magnesium cylinder head cover.
In order to offer improved performance while at the same time improving fuel efficiency and meeting ever more challenging emissions requirements, two 3.0-liter engines will be offered. In the U.S., the 525i and 525xi will offer a 3.0-liter engine which produces 215 hp (SAE net) and 185 lb-ft of torque at 2,750 rpm. Responsiveness in everyday driving situations is outstanding. Nearly 85 percent of peak torque is available from 1000 rpm all the way to 7000. The 530i and 530xi models will feature a 3.0-liter engine which produces 255 hp (SAE net) and 220 lb-ft of torque. Peak torque is available between 2750 and 4000 rpm. Here fully 90 percent of peak torque is available between 1500 and 6700 rpm.
The new generation of engines offers the customer higher output and more torque over a broader useful speed range on even less fuel than before. On average, fuel consumption is lower by approximately 7 per cent versus the previous models.
BMW is also presenting a new family of engines that set new standards in every respect. The new inline-six gasoline engines with more power, greater fuel economy and lower weight than their predecessors are the lightest six-cylinders in their segment.
Apart from fully variable VALVETRONIC valve drive in place of a conventional throttle, there are numerous other advancements which include the composite magnesium/aluminum crankcase, lightweight camshafts, the electric water pump, the fully controlled oil pump, single-belt drive and the magnesium cylinder head cover.
In order to offer improved performance while at the same time improving fuel efficiency and meeting ever more challenging emissions requirements, two 3.0-liter engines will be offered. In the U.S., the 525i and 525xi will offer a 3.0-liter engine which produces 215 hp (SAE net) and 185 lb-ft of torque at 2,750 rpm. Responsiveness in everyday driving situations is outstanding. Nearly 85 percent of peak torque is available from 1000 rpm all the way to 7000. The 530i and 530xi models will feature a 3.0-liter engine which produces 255 hp (SAE net) and 220 lb-ft of torque. Peak torque is available between 2750 and 4000 rpm. Here fully 90 percent of peak torque is available between 1500 and 6700 rpm.
The new generation of engines offers the customer higher output and more torque over a broader useful speed range on even less fuel than before. On average, fuel consumption is lower by approximately 7 per cent versus the previous models.
01-31-2005, 09:09 AM
#3
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by liloj
that article talks about the 5 series?
I know but they typically use the same 6 cylinder engines. And its also the only place I could see refer to the new "25" series of cars using a 3.0L as opposed to a 2.5L engine.
01-31-2005, 09:32 AM
#4
Senior Moderator
That's messed up. The last 2 digits have signified the engine size, but it looks like that's not the case anymore 
Maybe it's just on the 5 series ?? I wonder if gavriil has any imput on this??
Maybe it's just on the 5 series ?? I wonder if gavriil has any imput on this??
01-31-2005, 09:40 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
I wonder if gavriil has any imput on this??
I was wondering the same thing
Here's the thing. Candian Driver.com posted a new 3 series review
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/06_bmw_3.htm
Here's a quote.
In Canada, we'll receive two 3 Series sedans for a mid-year introduction (early summer). The 325i is powered by a 3.0-litre engine with a new magnesium crankshaft making 215-horsepower and 185 lb.-ft. of torque. Like all BMW six-cylinder engines, it's an inline cylinder configuration mounted longitudinally.
The 330i (which we drove at the press introduction) is equipped with the same 3.0 litre engine, but with a different intake and computer management system. It makes 255-horsepower and 220 lb.-ft torque.
The 330i (which we drove at the press introduction) is equipped with the same 3.0 litre engine, but with a different intake and computer management system. It makes 255-horsepower and 220 lb.-ft torque.
01-31-2005, 09:41 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by EdgarFanCLS
It wouldn't be the first time BMW did something like this... The 323's of recent past had 2.5L engines if I'm not mistaken.
Ya, thats not the question though. I'm wondering if BMW developed a second 3L engine ONLY for the NA market?
Trending Topics
01-31-2005, 10:41 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84700
I think this thread over at Bimmerfest answers my question. They are both 3.0L engines.
Starnge that the 2.5L in the Euro 325 and 3.0L in the NA 325 have the exact same HP and TQ numbers.
I think this thread over at Bimmerfest answers my question. They are both 3.0L engines.
Starnge that the 2.5L in the Euro 325 and 3.0L in the NA 325 have the exact same HP and TQ numbers.
01-31-2005, 11:52 AM
#10
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by domn
Ya, thats not the question though. I'm wondering if BMW developed a second 3L engine ONLY for the NA market?
I believe Edgar was commenting on Greenmonster's post, not the original post, and he is correct (re: 323i)
But it does seem as though the new R6 will become sort of BMW's version of Nissan's VQ35DE in that it'll probably see action in all of their 6 cylinder models with a variants:
BMW R6 Motor
01-31-2005, 11:54 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by biker
I don't think this will be settled until the first cars show up.
I should be able to demo a Euro 325 soon after the March 3 debut.
I should be able to demo a Euro 325 soon after the March 3 debut.
But like I said, BMW's Euro site already states it will have a 2.5L engine with 215/185 as do all the articles we've read up til now. Your in Europe so its probly the 2.5L for you. Its the US/Canada 325 I'm wondering about.
01-31-2005, 11:56 AM
#12
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by F23A4
I believe Edgar was commenting on Greenmonster's post, not the original post, and he is correct (re: 323i)
I just realized that
01-31-2005, 11:59 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by domn
....Starnge that the 2.5L in the Euro 325 and 3.0L in the NA 325 have the exact same HP and TQ numbers.
01-31-2005, 12:12 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by domn
I just realized that
01-31-2005, 01:03 PM
#15
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by F23A4
No biggie but, you are right about the new BMW 3.0L sixes. Whether or not they see duty stateside (which I think they will) remains to be seen though.
According to Canadian Driver they will.
02-01-2005, 04:46 PM
#16
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I was under the impression that the USA will get a 2.5 liter and a 3 liter engine. One making around 215 and the other around 255 PS. Let me check a few sources.
02-01-2005, 04:51 PM
#17
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From here:
"The engine line-up will be similar to the saloon's, starting with 2.0-litre petrol and diesel four-cylinder units. There will be 2.5 and 3.0-litre straight-six petrols, with the possibility of a V8-powered M3, which would compete head-to-head with the Audi S4 V8."
Now the above is an English source so it refers to Euro Spec engines.
-----------
From here:
"The new 3 Series will enter the U.S. market in summer of 2005 with a choice of two in-line 6-cylinder engines, continuing a 3 Series tradition. The all-new 3.0-liter unit in the 330i offers a significant increase in performance. It is rated at 255-horsepower (SAE), a 30-horsepower increase over its predecessor."
No word on the 325 there.
----------------
From Car and Driver here
"Powertrain
Choice of two in-line six-cylinder engines
2.5-liter, 215 horsepower
3.0-liter, 255 horsepower "
"The engine line-up will be similar to the saloon's, starting with 2.0-litre petrol and diesel four-cylinder units. There will be 2.5 and 3.0-litre straight-six petrols, with the possibility of a V8-powered M3, which would compete head-to-head with the Audi S4 V8."
Now the above is an English source so it refers to Euro Spec engines.
-----------
From here:
"The new 3 Series will enter the U.S. market in summer of 2005 with a choice of two in-line 6-cylinder engines, continuing a 3 Series tradition. The all-new 3.0-liter unit in the 330i offers a significant increase in performance. It is rated at 255-horsepower (SAE), a 30-horsepower increase over its predecessor."
No word on the 325 there.
----------------
From Car and Driver here
"Powertrain
Choice of two in-line six-cylinder engines
2.5-liter, 215 horsepower
3.0-liter, 255 horsepower "
02-01-2005, 04:54 PM
#19
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Here is what's happening in Europe per TCC
No new 3-Series can be developed without new engines. In this case there are four new powerplants: the 320i Valvetronic four has 150 hp, 6 hp more than before, and its torque has been increased by 17 lb-ft to 148 lb-ft. The 320d diesel engine, with a new common-rail system, delivers now 163 hp and has 251 lb-ft of torque.
"Completely new are the 2.5- and 3.0-liter six-cylinder engines. The former has 218 hp and 184 lb-ft, while the latter, already in use in the 6-Series coupe and convertible inEurope, has 258 hp and 221 lb-ft. By the use of a combination of aluminum and magnesium for the crankcase, the 3.0-liter in-line six weighs just 355 lbs, making it the world’s lightest six-cylinder in its class. The 330i has the highest output per liter, the best power-to-weight ratio, and the lowest level of specific fuel consumption as well.
The needle of the odometer the 330i will stop at 155 mph and the new BMW should be able to accelerate from 0-60 in 6.1 seconds, the company says. All engines are teamed to a manual six-speed stick, but a six-speed Steptronic automatic transmission is available."
No new 3-Series can be developed without new engines. In this case there are four new powerplants: the 320i Valvetronic four has 150 hp, 6 hp more than before, and its torque has been increased by 17 lb-ft to 148 lb-ft. The 320d diesel engine, with a new common-rail system, delivers now 163 hp and has 251 lb-ft of torque.
"Completely new are the 2.5- and 3.0-liter six-cylinder engines. The former has 218 hp and 184 lb-ft, while the latter, already in use in the 6-Series coupe and convertible inEurope, has 258 hp and 221 lb-ft. By the use of a combination of aluminum and magnesium for the crankcase, the 3.0-liter in-line six weighs just 355 lbs, making it the world’s lightest six-cylinder in its class. The 330i has the highest output per liter, the best power-to-weight ratio, and the lowest level of specific fuel consumption as well.
The needle of the odometer the 330i will stop at 155 mph and the new BMW should be able to accelerate from 0-60 in 6.1 seconds, the company says. All engines are teamed to a manual six-speed stick, but a six-speed Steptronic automatic transmission is available."
02-01-2005, 04:58 PM
#20
...which is still in Europe and may not necessarily apply to the US market.
I would find it incredibly weird for them to not use two engines though. If they used one engine and tuned it differently, then it seems like no one would buy the 330 because they could just buy the 325 and spend less on an aftermarket ECU flash that would give them the 330's performance.
I would find it incredibly weird for them to not use two engines though. If they used one engine and tuned it differently, then it seems like no one would buy the 330 because they could just buy the 325 and spend less on an aftermarket ECU flash that would give them the 330's performance.
02-01-2005, 09:40 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
...which is still in Europe and may not necessarily apply to the US market.
I would find it incredibly weird for them to not use two engines though. If they used one engine and tuned it differently, then it seems like no one would buy the 330 because they could just buy the 325 and spend less on an aftermarket ECU flash that would give them the 330's performance.
I would find it incredibly weird for them to not use two engines though. If they used one engine and tuned it differently, then it seems like no one would buy the 330 because they could just buy the 325 and spend less on an aftermarket ECU flash that would give them the 330's performance.
02-02-2005, 02:07 AM
#22
I'm the Firestarter
Another weird thing is the article says the 320i will have a 150 hp 4-cyl engine. In Canada, the current 320i has a 2.2L 168 hp I6.
Obviously the article talks about Euro models... I don't think BMW will go the 4-cyl route again in NA.
Obviously the article talks about Euro models... I don't think BMW will go the 4-cyl route again in NA.
02-02-2005, 08:26 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by Belzebutt
I don't think BMW will go the 4-cyl route again in NA.
At least not stateside.
02-02-2005, 09:24 AM
#25
Originally Posted by Water-S
but your warrenty could be gone plus reliablity could be a issue in the long run.
And since the engine is the same but the engine tuning is different, bumping the power of the lower rated engine up to the higher rated engine shouldn't affect reliability since the higher rated engine shouldn't be any less reliable than the lower rated engine.
02-02-2005, 09:29 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by biker
Does it really matter if the engine is 2.5 or 3.0 if the HP/tq figures are the same?
In the end no. But I just find it interesting. And it would be even more interesting if you could turn a 325 3L into a 330 3L with an ECU upgrade. But I doubt it.
02-03-2005, 03:19 AM
#28
Race Director
There's plenty of talk on BMW forums about "upgrading" the detuned 3.0 to the regular 3.0 specs but it's going to be a lot more than just an ECU. In the end, just like someone trying to retrofit a NAV, what people will find is that you're better off getting the 330 to start.
I doubt there would be any meanigful milage diff between the two.
I doubt there would be any meanigful milage diff between the two.
02-03-2005, 03:30 AM
#29
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Jon Shafer
A clarification re: E90
Some have speculated that the U.S. Product Ordering Guide has a typo.
It does not. What makes it more confusing is that the rest of the world
will get a 2.5-liter in the 325i. U.S. market gets a 3.0 liter 325i. :thumbup:
Here's the deal: in order to produce 215 hp SAE on the U.S. E90 325i
-and- meet current and future emissions, BMW needed to increase the
displacement. That's the whole enchilada...
And, for those that think that the 325i can be easily modified and produce
the 255hp of the 330i, no way. Unless you're a buddy of Steve Dinan, it will
be next to impossible. That's because the intake is different. The 330i has
a 3-stage intake and the 325i has a single stage intake. There are also
differences in the computer and exhaust. Also, the 325i manual transmission
is not rated for 255 hp. The 325i automatic except for the final drive ratio is
identical to the 330i, so it could take the power increase. I would guess that
hp hungry consumers would buy a manual. Besides, it would be expensive to
do all of the above. Equipment adjusted the 330i will be about 3 grand more
than the 325i. I'd suggest that they just buy the 330i...
Good luck and best regards,
--Jon
Some have speculated that the U.S. Product Ordering Guide has a typo.
It does not. What makes it more confusing is that the rest of the world
will get a 2.5-liter in the 325i. U.S. market gets a 3.0 liter 325i. :thumbup:
Here's the deal: in order to produce 215 hp SAE on the U.S. E90 325i
-and- meet current and future emissions, BMW needed to increase the
displacement. That's the whole enchilada...
And, for those that think that the 325i can be easily modified and produce
the 255hp of the 330i, no way. Unless you're a buddy of Steve Dinan, it will
be next to impossible. That's because the intake is different. The 330i has
a 3-stage intake and the 325i has a single stage intake. There are also
differences in the computer and exhaust. Also, the 325i manual transmission
is not rated for 255 hp. The 325i automatic except for the final drive ratio is
identical to the 330i, so it could take the power increase. I would guess that
hp hungry consumers would buy a manual. Besides, it would be expensive to
do all of the above. Equipment adjusted the 330i will be about 3 grand more
than the 325i. I'd suggest that they just buy the 330i...
Good luck and best regards,
--Jon
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cf...eng/bmw/1.html
02-04-2005, 01:01 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by biker
Does it really matter if the engine is 2.5 or 3.0 if the HP/tq figures are the same?
Looks like that settles that.
02-04-2005, 01:22 PM
#34
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Maybe we'll see a 3.5L in the 330 someday 
BMW's too stuck on their naming, but there's no real logical way to do it if they're going to use the same displacement engine. I guess they're too embarrassed to offer a 2.5L engine in the NA market. (As they should be).
BMW's too stuck on their naming, but there's no real logical way to do it if they're going to use the same displacement engine. I guess they're too embarrassed to offer a 2.5L engine in the NA market. (As they should be).
02-04-2005, 03:18 PM
#35
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by goldmemberer
Maybe we'll see a 3.5L in the 330 someday
BMW's too stuck on their naming, but there's no real logical way to do it if they're going to use the same displacement engine. I guess they're too embarrassed to offer a 2.5L engine in the NA market. (As they should be).
BMW's too stuck on their naming, but there's no real logical way to do it if they're going to use the same displacement engine. I guess they're too embarrassed to offer a 2.5L engine in the NA market. (As they should be).
True. That's what Edgar alluded to a while back. Such as the case, BMW is probably the only make that I know of that occassionally gets tripped up by its own name convention.
(Although a couple of the MB AMG '55s' are actually 5.4L.)
02-04-2005, 04:16 PM
#37
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
exactly. its really not a big deal like some are making it out to be. 
Its not a big deal and to me never was. I have no plans to buy a BMW. I was just more interested as to why we're gettting a 3L when the rest of the world gets a 2.5 with the same HP/TQ figures.
More trivia than anything else.
Canada has been getting a 320i for years now that uses a 2.2L 6.
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