Motor Trend favors A4 over TL...
05-25-2009, 02:37 PM
#322
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The most aggressive tune on the 2.0T that I've seen puts the 2.0T at 292 lb/ft of torque with 93 octane.
Which reflash are you talking about?
05-25-2009, 04:15 PM
#323
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See here for more info.
Basically, APR achieved 211wHP and 295wTQ on 91oct.
Last edited by aznpxdd; 05-25-2009 at 04:18 PM.
05-25-2009, 04:19 PM
#325
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APR's new program for B8 A4's.
See here for more info.
Basically, APR achieved 211wHP and 295wTQ on 91oct.
See here for more info.
Basically, APR achieved 211wHP and 295wTQ on 91oct.
Those are some great numbers.
05-25-2009, 07:19 PM
#326
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No way on earth will an A4 2.0T touch a properly tuned 135 or 335 though. Even the relatively weak tunes give numbers like 330WHP and 360WTQ, and it's a proper RWD setup that can take the power. Doing hot-launches on AWD vehicles based on FWD platforms gives hell to the diff and half-shafts. Hell, it's even hard on AWD vehicles based on RWD platforms, I ate a diff and more than a few half-shafts on my VR4.
For numbers north of 350WHP/380WTQ on the X35i, I do recommend giving a nod to a decent LSD though. Of course, comparing a $40k base 335i to a $31k base A4 2.0T is as unbalanced as comparing a modded car to a stock one.
EDIT : This guy is mostly stock, but 413WHP, 439WTQ : http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93865
Last edited by Arkaign; 05-25-2009 at 07:23 PM.
05-25-2009, 10:55 PM
#328
The new TL is what it has been in the past, a joint segment premium luxury sports vehicle priced lower than most of the competitions entry level vehicles with similar offerings of a mid sized, for me it's a solid value. I think everyone should know that a car does not have to be the best in a lower class to move up a rank or segment, that's not how it works, sometimes if a car doesn't seem to compete well it could be becuase it actually doesn't belong there, that's why it might seem out of place. Next year when the new RL is redone, the TL will be moving up to take the curent RL's mid sized slot. There are plenty of cars in that segment that don't come near the performance or handling capabilities of some of the best in the entry level class, so I guess they should move down? The Audi A6 is still offered in a 3.2 with FWD, for that purpose I would rather buy a FWD TL, if that A6 was cheap enough they would have plugged it into one of these comparos and it would have faired much worse, let's be honest. The MB brand new E class still offers an underacheiving V6 that is below many of the outputs and performance levels of the entry class, even the TSX now. Segments should be made up how they always were, by type, size, and if it's a standard or premium (luxury) make, NOT BY PRICE, if the magazines want to compare them by price, than that makes perfect sense but let's not get confused where the cars actually belong.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 05-25-2009 at 11:00 PM.
05-26-2009, 12:01 AM
#329
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Wow, after reading this very interesting thread its clear and an amazing difference from the posters calling themselves "OG" and the TL owners. The OG posters made by far the clearest and most unbiased posts and they were a great read. ( I want to be an OG now!!!)
We have all seen Honda/Acura actually get called out for being favored and being the "payers" in the past. They usually love Honda/Acura products. They loved the last TL.
Seeing the new TL do so poorly must really show how far behind the competition it really is as traditionally, they love the product.
Also the TL lost to the A4 in another magazine comparo so this is not just one incident.
The last gen TL owners seem to be some of the last TL Acura owners that live here with us. The new TL forum has maybe 5 guys posting making some crazy claims and doing everything to justify their purchase. Remember how busy the last gen TL forum got? It was full of owners. The new TL clearly is attracting "different" people.
The TL can't beat the Tl, G37, 328 and people are here trying to say its a damn competitior for the next cars up!
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/theres-no-question-tl-designed-compete-5-e-a6-725744/
Thank you OG posters!
We have all seen Honda/Acura actually get called out for being favored and being the "payers" in the past. They usually love Honda/Acura products. They loved the last TL.
Seeing the new TL do so poorly must really show how far behind the competition it really is as traditionally, they love the product.
Also the TL lost to the A4 in another magazine comparo so this is not just one incident.
The last gen TL owners seem to be some of the last TL Acura owners that live here with us. The new TL forum has maybe 5 guys posting making some crazy claims and doing everything to justify their purchase. Remember how busy the last gen TL forum got? It was full of owners. The new TL clearly is attracting "different" people.
The TL can't beat the Tl, G37, 328 and people are here trying to say its a damn competitior for the next cars up!
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/theres-no-question-tl-designed-compete-5-e-a6-725744/
Thank you OG posters!
Starting from the 3G TL though, the TL has never won any comparison tests in C&D. It's always behind in 3rd or 4th position. The G35 and 3 series are usually ranked higher than the TL, with A4 close behind. And it's the 6MT TL that we are talking about here.And in general, C&D likes MT more than AT. the 2009 TL unfortunately, is only available with the 5AT. So I don't think it's too surprising to see it ranked even lower than those cars.
05-26-2009, 08:43 AM
#330
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Numbers that prove a car will be reliable in its first year kinda miss the point. All repairs during that period will be under warranty. In fact, if you never keep a car beyond the warranty period, comparing reliability is kind of pointless (unless you are talking about the annoyance factor).
I think (and this is purely conjecture) that if you compare the reliablity of these cars in 3-4 years you will then see some differentiation between Audi and Acura.
I think (and this is purely conjecture) that if you compare the reliablity of these cars in 3-4 years you will then see some differentiation between Audi and Acura.
Sometimes even the opposite can happen, our first year 2003 Honda Pilot went to the dealer four times in the first year for TSB/issues; water pump/timing belt recall, SRS computer reflash, 5AT 2nd gear oil bypass, and the dealer ripped the leather seat (the dealership's fault during vehicle prep). It's now up to 140K miles and 7 years with only two other problems (fogged headlight, window lift motor) in 7 years. First year 2G Odyssey's had alot of first year problems with rear brakes and sliding doors.
05-26-2009, 09:01 AM
#331
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click on results chart. In fit & finish Audi A4 is above Acura TL with huge difference in ride. ur data is pretty much outdated.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test
05-26-2009, 09:49 AM
#332
^ Well technically the topic is about the 2009 TL and the 2009 A4... so it is very relevant.
Only a select few took the topic down the reliability route... however, others are taking it down other avenues... which is all relevant to the topic at hand since reliability is not the only talking point when comparing two vehicles.
Only a select few took the topic down the reliability route... however, others are taking it down other avenues... which is all relevant to the topic at hand since reliability is not the only talking point when comparing two vehicles.
05-26-2009, 11:01 AM
#333
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^ Well technically the topic is about the 2009 TL and the 2009 A4... so it is very relevant.
Only a select few took the topic down the reliability route... however, others are taking it down other avenues... which is all relevant to the topic at hand since reliability is not the only talking point when comparing two vehicles.
Only a select few took the topic down the reliability route... however, others are taking it down other avenues... which is all relevant to the topic at hand since reliability is not the only talking point when comparing two vehicles.
05-26-2009, 11:57 AM
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That's a good point, and an ecu flash / engine tune on a TL or 328/330 will give only a miniscule gain due to the lack of a stock FI setup. I would tend to think that a well-tuned A4 2.0T would be a good match for a stock 335i, although highly-boosted 4-bangers don't give me a really comfortable feeling.
05-26-2009, 12:47 PM
#335
SSFTSX and I were discussing reliability prior to that and he quoted one of my previous posts. If you read posts #303, 304, 305, 307 and 314, you will understand the debate we were having. In the context of post 307 by me, post 314 is not relevant at all. As I said earlier, I am not arguing that the TL is better than the A4, as I would probably pick the A4 if I had more confidence in its long-term (5+ years) reliability.
05-26-2009, 03:22 PM
#336
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Car and Driver's comparison test with A4, G37, and 328
The link is here: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-2.html
You can guess the result. We'll need a TSX with V6 and SHAWD to redo the comparison.
"The steering, however, is at odds with effortless motoring. It has a zone of indifference on-center, a band within which it seems undecided about the path..."
You can guess the result. We'll need a TSX with V6 and SHAWD to redo the comparison.
"The steering, however, is at odds with effortless motoring. It has a zone of indifference on-center, a band within which it seems undecided about the path..."
05-26-2009, 05:24 PM
#340
Why not, let's do it again. To make it simple, at the end of the day C&D and all these magazines don't like the light steering and are a little disappointed with the acceleration, so there is a good chance the TL may start winning these comparos when they finally get there hands on a 6MT version.
05-27-2009, 03:53 PM
#342
Pro
Hmm... not all magazines are created equal. Reading Motortrend is certainly a waste of time.
Car and Driver on the other hand is a pleasure to read. Not as good as before, but still better than others.
C/D has always liked Hondas. Accord, Fit, Odyssey routinely win comparison tests. MDX does well too, and to an extent TSX is favored.
TL is just too big and heavy, lacks one additional gear, and isn't helped by the styling in/out.
328 is a sweet vehicle in 6MT.
Car and Driver on the other hand is a pleasure to read. Not as good as before, but still better than others.
C/D has always liked Hondas. Accord, Fit, Odyssey routinely win comparison tests. MDX does well too, and to an extent TSX is favored.
TL is just too big and heavy, lacks one additional gear, and isn't helped by the styling in/out.
328 is a sweet vehicle in 6MT.
05-28-2009, 01:18 AM
#343
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^ The TL has rarely done well in their comparison tests though. the 3G TL 6MT was usually ranked behind the 3 series, G, and above the A4. And now the TL only comes with a 5AT, it's not too surprising to see it ranked last against those cars.
05-28-2009, 04:05 PM
#344
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