Mazda RX8
04-19-2006, 04:03 AM
#82
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Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Sounds like you and I need to get together to work on your attitude.
04-19-2006, 04:16 AM
#83
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I have a 350Z Roadster and have never heard of, read about, or experienced "front end skip" in my car. I subscribe to 4 Z-specific forums and have never read about this class action lawsuit. Further, I have no problem with a 6600 redline when it is attached to an engine that makes its power below that number in a range that is real-world drivable, ie-not at 9000 screaming rpm's like the S2000 and its tiny interior. I don't know where the baseless assertions this Cog neuro guy makes comes from 
but he needs to lighten up and quit clouding his so-called car intelligence in baseless assertions.
but he needs to lighten up and quit clouding his so-called car intelligence in baseless assertions.
04-19-2006, 04:19 AM
#84
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Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Sounds like you and I need to get together to work on your attitude.
04-19-2006, 04:43 AM
#85
GEEZER
Originally Posted by Ken1997TL
Actually you're the most pompous ass to grace this forum in years.
04-19-2006, 06:34 AM
#87
Originally Posted by Chief F1 Fan
I have a 350Z Roadster and have never heard of, read about, or experienced "front end skip" in my car. I subscribe to 4 Z-specific forums and have never read about this class action lawsuit. Further, I have no problem with a 6600 redline when it is attached to an engine that makes its power below that number in a range that is real-world drivable, ie-not at 9000 screaming rpm's like the S2000 and its tiny interior. I don't know where the baseless assertions this Cog neuro guy makes comes from but he needs to lighten up and quit clouding his so-called car intelligence in baseless assertions.
but he needs to lighten up and quit clouding his so-called car intelligence in baseless assertions.
never had this problem with my 350z, nor have I EVER read about it on all the Z forums I have frequented. the only class action law suit i am aware of is for the tire cupping issue (completely non performance related front tire wear issue) and since nissan has resolved the problem with some TSB's it's going nowhere.
Last edited by zeroday; 04-19-2006 at 06:37 AM.
04-19-2006, 08:23 AM
#90
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Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Look here, for the last time, the front end skip HAPPENS. It will happen all day long, if you go around a corner hard. That is a fact. Why the hell are you so rigid in denying this? Do you have a vested interest? Just get in your 350z and try to reproduce it.
What exactly can the rest of the forum see through? What is my motive other than to correct erroneous statements? Is my motive to propagate LIES and INACCURACIES?
What exactly can the rest of the forum see through? What is my motive other than to correct erroneous statements? Is my motive to propagate LIES and INACCURACIES?
Doesn't make your claim wrong but it DEFINITELY doesn't make it fact either. That's my one n00b pass for you.
04-19-2006, 09:13 AM
#91
I just realized he tried to respond to one of my posts. No need for me to respond since the rest of the guys did it for me already. 
Funny how he seems to think he knows what he's talking about... yet every single reply to his posts would prove the opposite 
hahaha, what a tool. He's gonna get eaten up when the regulars really get a hold of him. Time to just sit back and enjoy the carnage...
04-19-2006, 09:26 AM
#92
likes it raw
The fact that wheelskip "happens all day when he's driving hard" but no magazines/forums/articles/people have complained about it being a car specific problem leads me to believe there's more than a little driver error involved.
04-19-2006, 09:43 AM
#93
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Originally Posted by JimmyCarter
The fact that wheelskip "happens all day when he's driving hard" but no magazines/forums/articles/people have complained about it being a car specific problem leads me to believe there's more than a little driver error involved.
04-19-2006, 09:57 AM
#94
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Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
You either didn't test drive all the cars or you didn't drive them all HARD. The 350z is 200 to 250 lbs heavier than the RX8 and is NOSE heavy. Front midship and close to 50:50 weight balance doesn't matter. I'm saying that the 350z is nose AND tail heavy in almost equal amounts. Empirical evidence is if you drive the 350z HARD around a corner, the front tires will literally do a little skip, which isn't easily anticipated and therefore dangerous. The car has real good grip up to its limit; the problem is that going over the limit comes suddenly and without much warning.
The RX8 is much lighter and better balanced in its handling and takes the idea of "front midship" to the most extreme (its engine is pushed 2" lower and 5" farther back than in the 3rd gen RX7). Incredibly neutral and no surprises at the limit. You can literally glide around a street corner at 30 mph. Have any of you tried to do that with a 350z? If you did, then you have experienced the front end skip (it actually happens well below 30 mph) and you may have even lost control of the car after over-correcting.
The G35 coupe is 350 to 400 lbs heavier than the RX8. Its steering has great amounts of power assist (unlike the 350z) and this creates the illusion that it's super light on its feet...that is until you try to go around a corner at speed. YIKES! Talk about an unpredictable and dangerous surprised.
All three cars have lateral acceleration numbers that are about the same. But fanbois must be told that handling is the sum of many more factors than just skid pad numbers. The conclusion is simple: the RX8 is a MUCH better handling car than both the 350z and G35 coupe. Thank you for your time.
The RX8 is much lighter and better balanced in its handling and takes the idea of "front midship" to the most extreme (its engine is pushed 2" lower and 5" farther back than in the 3rd gen RX7). Incredibly neutral and no surprises at the limit. You can literally glide around a street corner at 30 mph. Have any of you tried to do that with a 350z? If you did, then you have experienced the front end skip (it actually happens well below 30 mph) and you may have even lost control of the car after over-correcting.
The G35 coupe is 350 to 400 lbs heavier than the RX8. Its steering has great amounts of power assist (unlike the 350z) and this creates the illusion that it's super light on its feet...that is until you try to go around a corner at speed. YIKES! Talk about an unpredictable and dangerous surprised.
All three cars have lateral acceleration numbers that are about the same. But fanbois must be told that handling is the sum of many more factors than just skid pad numbers. The conclusion is simple: the RX8 is a MUCH better handling car than both the 350z and G35 coupe. Thank you for your time.
04-19-2006, 09:59 AM
#95
'Big Daddy Diggler'
Whats wrong with a sports car having a 7000 rpm redline. I guess all the vette, Ford GT, older ferrari, and other super car owners with less than 7000 rpm redline should just hang their heads in shame.
04-19-2006, 10:08 AM
#96
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Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
I am 100% correct, which also means you are wrong, if not also overzealous.
In autocross, you don't have turns like a fricking street corner. Comprende? I know exactly what I'm talking about, because I've driven all 3 hard and heard similar things from others. Actually I heard similar things from others AFTER I initially reported on these things on my own. That's what empirical evidence means: firsthand observation. FYI, the link that fast-tl provides in post #61 has a magazine article that says almost exactly what I said. When I wrote my post, I hadn't read that article, I assure you. My description is almost identical, which even surprised me. How's that for corroborating "empirical evidence"!
Here's what I mean by front and nose heavy but in equal amounts. Like skid pad numbers, people tend to take weight balance ratios on their own, which can be misleading. If you advertise that your car has near 50:50 balance, you know consumers will assume that the car is a great handler when that's not necessarily true. The 350z is front heavy, no doubt about it. It achieves near 50:50 because obviously it has almost equal mass in the rear. That mass is not really in the dead center; it's separated and creates a pendulum effect. It is absolutely front heavy because going hard around a fricking street corner, you can feel the front end plow downward until the damn front end does a tiny skip. It's really unnerving but you can get used to it. Otherwise, it will catch you by surprise and you may even turn the rear around trying to over-correct. A few anecdotes exist in another forum where a 350z or G35 coupe owner follows an RX8 around a street corner or sweeping fwy onramp thinking he can match the speed only to nearly wipe out after over-correcting. That WILL happen with the 2 Nissans. Aside from that, the SKIP HAPPENS. That's a fact.
Please don't waste my time by attacking what I say with invalid points. What I say is accurate.
In autocross, you don't have turns like a fricking street corner. Comprende? I know exactly what I'm talking about, because I've driven all 3 hard and heard similar things from others. Actually I heard similar things from others AFTER I initially reported on these things on my own. That's what empirical evidence means: firsthand observation. FYI, the link that fast-tl provides in post #61 has a magazine article that says almost exactly what I said. When I wrote my post, I hadn't read that article, I assure you. My description is almost identical, which even surprised me. How's that for corroborating "empirical evidence"!
Here's what I mean by front and nose heavy but in equal amounts. Like skid pad numbers, people tend to take weight balance ratios on their own, which can be misleading. If you advertise that your car has near 50:50 balance, you know consumers will assume that the car is a great handler when that's not necessarily true. The 350z is front heavy, no doubt about it. It achieves near 50:50 because obviously it has almost equal mass in the rear. That mass is not really in the dead center; it's separated and creates a pendulum effect. It is absolutely front heavy because going hard around a fricking street corner, you can feel the front end plow downward until the damn front end does a tiny skip. It's really unnerving but you can get used to it. Otherwise, it will catch you by surprise and you may even turn the rear around trying to over-correct. A few anecdotes exist in another forum where a 350z or G35 coupe owner follows an RX8 around a street corner or sweeping fwy onramp thinking he can match the speed only to nearly wipe out after over-correcting. That WILL happen with the 2 Nissans. Aside from that, the SKIP HAPPENS. That's a fact.
Please don't waste my time by attacking what I say with invalid points. What I say is accurate.
Maybe in the fact that you have no runoff area on the street, but you are wrong.The 350Z is front heavy? Here since you have no clue what you are talking about, let me help you with some "empirical" evidence. First, there is no front end skip present in the 350Z. What you are referring to is called UNDERSTEER. Second, any car will understeer given the right conditions. I've driven Z06's on race tracks and could make them understeer like a bus if I overcooked the corner. Second, you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to weight distribution. I can easily school you in that regard, but I suggest you read some "empirical" data from a book. Go read Skip Barber's "Going Faster".
04-19-2006, 10:19 AM
#98
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Originally Posted by bigman
Whats wrong with a sports car having a 7000 rpm redline. I guess all the vette, Ford GT, older ferrari, and other super car owners with less than 7000 rpm redline should just hang their heads in shame.
I expect he will bring HP/Liter into the discussion soon, since that's the next logical step when you mention 7000+ rpm redlines. High redline engines generally are peaky and have no torque. Hmm...sounds like the RX8.
04-19-2006, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
hey, how come no one invited me to this party?!
https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/noob-bashers-unite-337177/
04-19-2006, 11:53 AM
#104
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Doesnt seem like the guy know how to drive too well. If you feel the front end plowing at 30mph...that means you took the apex incorrectly....and are using too much tire...with a RWD that can be corrected by giving a little bit of throttle input and making the 'pendulum' straighten itself out. Anyone who has been on a road course would know that. Autocross is a different beast....I would never run a large and heavy car such as the Z.
04-19-2006, 11:56 AM
#105
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Originally Posted by moomaster_99
Doesnt seem like the guy know how to drive too well. If you feel the front end plowing at 30mph...that means you took the apex incorrectly....and are using too much tire...with a RWD that can be corrected by giving a little bit of throttle input and making the 'pendulum' straighten itself out. Anyone who has been on a road course would know that. Autocross is a different beast....I would never run a large and heavy car such as the Z.
Another thing it sounds like this idiot asshat is doing is coming into the turn too hot, slamming his brakes, and then attempting to steer while braking...which is a no no.
04-19-2006, 12:34 PM
#106
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Originally Posted by The Sarlacc
There are plenty of people that run the Z in Autocross...its not the best, but a good driver can do VERY well in it.
Another thing it sounds like this idiot asshat is doing is coming into the turn too hot, slamming his brakes, and then attempting to steer while braking...which is a no no.
Another thing it sounds like this idiot asshat is doing is coming into the turn too hot, slamming his brakes, and then attempting to steer while braking...which is a no no.
yeah, this kids an idiot.
04-19-2006, 12:41 PM
#107
Senior Moderator
I can say with out a doubt that this guy knows less about how to drive a car than anyone here on this forum and has 0 idea what hes talking about.!
04-19-2006, 12:46 PM
#108
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OH...and I'm willing to bet his "tire skip" is the ABS system kicking in while he's out there pretending to drive
04-19-2006, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by The Sarlacc
OH...and I'm willing to bet his "tire skip" is the ABS system kicking in while he's out there pretending to drive
Sounds about right to me..
04-19-2006, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by YOTH
I'm not into cars like some of you guys but I'll give Cog the benefit of the doubt. Most normal drivers cannot push the car to its limits without getting into an accident but there must be some documentation from some magazine or testing institute that can substantiate your claims Cog, right? Other than your personal claim that it occurs on your car it seems like no one else has shared your experience.
Doesn't make your claim wrong but it DEFINITELY doesn't make it fact either. That's my one n00b pass for you.
Doesn't make your claim wrong but it DEFINITELY doesn't make it fact either. That's my one n00b pass for you.
Most of the shitbrains in here are jumping on me on purpose, as you can tell. That's why so many mods from Louisiana to Timbuktu have gathered here. Is it the mating season already?
Fast-tl posted a link for a magazine review comparing the 350z and RX8. I'm not sure what the magazine is. Compare the article and my FIRST post in this thread and you'll see they match almost identically. It's really quite amazing because I did not read that article before.
Regarding the skip, the article doesn't talk about a skip but talks about how the Z's handling limits sneak up on you. I have to agree completely. The skip has NOTHING to do with ABS. Yes, it has something to do with braking and turning, but that does not mean I don't know how to drive. Let's get off the testosterone, guys. Everyone is a street racer and autocross "expert." Give me a break. The skip is almost imperceptible. Yes, you can avoid it by just letting the car go through the corner and the rear end slide while powering out. Wouldn't it be ridiculous to drive like that on you daily commute?
My point is that going around the corner at speed (not even that fast, around 20 mph) does not inspire confidence in the Z. At the same and greater speed, the RX8 just glides around the same corner. However, the RX8 does have body roll, which is the ONLY issue about its handling. Mazda tuned the suspension like that on purpose because it's supposed to be a grand tourer or GT. The body roll is dialed out easily with thicker sway bars or coilovers, as many owners have done.
04-19-2006, 04:06 PM
#111
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Originally Posted by juniorbean
As a former RX8 owner I can tell you that I agree with pretty much everything that was typed on this post. I bought a 2004 in May with 5150 miles... sold it in September with about 5800 miles. It was a third car which is why it wasn't driven much... just on nice days and such. That and I work from home, so I really don't go anywhere anyway.
Anyway, the main reason I sold it was gas mileage. I got about 17 on my first tank... and that was about 95% highway. The next tank I completely babied it... and got 19.2 with about 75% highway. But that was no fun babying it since all the power is up high... but driving it like normal only yielded about 15-17 mpg... and that was mostly highway. If I did city driving, I'd probably be at or under 13mpg. Rotory engines also burn oil by nature... and this car was no different, although it was better then I thought it would be. Mazda recommended checking the oil every fill up, which I did... but I only need to add oil about every 3 tanks on average... which wasn't so bad. Since the car was eventually going to be my primary car down the road... I sold it.
Power was OK. Wasn't really that fast. My TL-S is faster. Handles like a dream though. I found that the 350z had kind of a rough ride.... this was smooth as butter and handled like it was on rails. I loved the way it looked too... but those reasons were not enough to keep it.... so I sold it and got basically what I paid for it... so it was a free rental for 5 months
Here's a pic I took when listing it for sale:
Anyway, the main reason I sold it was gas mileage. I got about 17 on my first tank... and that was about 95% highway. The next tank I completely babied it... and got 19.2 with about 75% highway. But that was no fun babying it since all the power is up high... but driving it like normal only yielded about 15-17 mpg... and that was mostly highway. If I did city driving, I'd probably be at or under 13mpg. Rotory engines also burn oil by nature... and this car was no different, although it was better then I thought it would be. Mazda recommended checking the oil every fill up, which I did... but I only need to add oil about every 3 tanks on average... which wasn't so bad. Since the car was eventually going to be my primary car down the road... I sold it.
Power was OK. Wasn't really that fast. My TL-S is faster. Handles like a dream though. I found that the 350z had kind of a rough ride.... this was smooth as butter and handled like it was on rails. I loved the way it looked too... but those reasons were not enough to keep it.... so I sold it and got basically what I paid for it... so it was a free rental for 5 months
Here's a pic I took when listing it for sale:
04-19-2006, 04:13 PM
#112
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I only see one person in here talking out of his ass and his name is Cog Neuro Sci.
Also, someone took my big gulp from page 4 and I want it back. The
is making me thirsty.
Also, someone took my big gulp from page 4 and I want it back. The
is making me thirsty.
04-19-2006, 04:22 PM
#114
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Here's the original post by one of AZ's own moderators. I encourage everyone to read this post. I would be willing to bet 1 million dollars that I don't have that 100% of the people in here would have to conclude he is talking out of his ass. The remarks are insane and baseless. It appears he's just saying things off the top of his head. Is AZ recruiting learning disabled teens to be moderators?
04-19-2006, 04:26 PM
#115
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Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Here's the original post by one of AZ's own moderators. I encourage everyone to read this post. I would be willing to bet 1 million dollars that I don't have that 100% of the people in here would have to conclude he is talking out of his ass. The remarks are insane and baseless. It appears he's just saying things off the top of his head. Is AZ recruiting learning disabled teens to be moderators?
04-19-2006, 04:29 PM
#116
Senior Moderator
You owe me a million dollars, because every thing he said made sense, while i cant say the same thing for you and your baseless assumptions.
04-19-2006, 04:36 PM
#117
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Here's the original post by one of AZ's own moderators. I encourage everyone to read this post. I would be willing to bet 1 million dollars that I don't have that 100% of the people in here would have to conclude he is talking out of his ass. The remarks are insane and baseless. It appears he's just saying things off the top of his head. Is AZ recruiting learning disabled teens to be moderators?
the 350z does indeed have a rougher ride than the rx7. but how does his post validate anything you've said?
04-19-2006, 04:50 PM
#119
Lola
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 12 (11 members and 1 guests)
MSZ, elessar, S A CHO, zeroday, agui, tuleman, Cog Neuro Sci, mclarenf3387, Sly Raskal, Lord Helmet, fsttyms1
MSZ, elessar, S A CHO, zeroday, agui, tuleman, Cog Neuro Sci, mclarenf3387, Sly Raskal, Lord Helmet, fsttyms1
04-19-2006, 04:50 PM
#120
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Here's the original post by one of AZ's own moderators. I encourage everyone to read this post. I would be willing to bet 1 million dollars that I don't have that 100% of the people in here would have to conclude he is talking out of his ass. The remarks are insane and baseless. It appears he's just saying things off the top of his head. Is AZ recruiting learning disabled teens to be moderators?
I'm probably more successful then you in my 20's then you are at 38. Just b/c I'm not a pompous ass about it like some people doesn't mean it's not the case.Wow, glad I was able to see that reply. He made such good points too... all backed up with facts!! My guess is that he has never been on the RX8 forum where everything I observed during my ownership is what many members on there also saw. Search for MPG on that site and sit back and enjoy reading any one of the 13 or so pages of topics found as matches.
It's a shame I have to log off to do some things b/c I am very much looking forward to everyone's replies
. I wonder if he'll even make it through the night.
Last edited by juniorbean; 04-19-2006 at 04:52 PM.