hi guys.. its been awhile since i posted here..

i purchased or i should say leased a Ls460L this past saturday. msrp on it was the fully loaded 85947, i got them to to 82500. Im leasing it at 48months, no money down and the payments are rounghly 1400 so im sitting here debating if purchasing the car would work out better for me in the long run.. paying 67k to rent a car that is 86k for 4yrs seems wayyy to much obviously.. previously had the 7 and 6series.. and i want to say that i only paid half of what the car was worth.. what are your guys thoughts on this.. should i change the loan terms and just purchase the thing?
* keep in mind this is my first ever purchase/lease.. the husband did the other 2 cars and i wasnt present

 

Good God....1400 a month for a lease? I would rather buy b/c when you turn the lease in you won't have a damn thing...but if you bought it and financed it over 6 years I bet your payments would be less and you would have something to show insteading of a sore butt.

 

of you and the car.

Honestly though, that's mucho cash for a lease.

 

The LS460 does not lease out well........these are the Oct. rates/residuals.

The cars are pricey and the residuals are nothing to write home about. Don't think they got any better.

Add 2 points for 12k/miles.

$1,400/month is Sclass money.

2007 Lexus LS460 Sedan L Executive w/Pre-Collision / (10)

24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 55% of MSRP – .00255 Base Money Factor Rate
36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 49% of MSRP – .00255 Base Money Factor Rate

2007 Lexus LS460 Sedan L / (10)

24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 61% of MSRP – .00255 Base Money Factor Rate
36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 55% of MSRP – .00255 Base Money Factor Rate

2007 Lexus LS460 Sedan L w/Pre-Collision / (10)

24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 60% of MSRP – .00255 Base Money Factor Rate
36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 54% of MSRP – .00255 Base Money Factor Rate


Anyway, why would a 27yr old want that big tank?

 

ok so plus 1 for buying it.. i just hope i can change the terms now..
ash youve seen my pic before, ive posted it like.. 4yrs ago haha
beltfed.. i drv the 7 previously for the last 4yrs and i like big things

 

Seriously though, those residuals are complete crap. 55%? Wow Lexus is stealing at both ends!

Unless you can write the lease off for business purposes, I can't see how that's a good deal. +2 for buying.

 

IMHO, its just too much money for a car period. Spend it on the house where you make money and get a nice 30-40k car.

 

Generally any time a 27 year old is driving an 80-90k+ car, it's probably a safe bet to assume they have the house / finance thing figured out or taken care of one way or another.

I just hope it's not the story of another hot mid 20s girl dating a 40 year old that is so common here in Scottsdale.

 

wow.. haha no no my husband is not in his 40's he turns 30 tomorrow.. as stated before we had a 6 and a 7 that were both leases and those were up last year so no more payments. we had gotten an audi for the winter and have been waiting on this ls to come out before we made our next lease... so basically this would be our only payment.. just hope i make the right decision on the terms

 

Lease or Buy ... aint matter ... If you could affort to lease it, don't worry about it !!! Enjoy the car !!!

 

leasing is always more expensive than buying. there's no incentive to leasing unless you want to look like you drive an expensive car but you really cant afford it.

 

Or if you own a business you can write the whole lease payment off instead of setting up a depreciation schedule for the vehicle. To some people paying more for a car is better then giving the government more money. The laws vary state to state, but that is roughly how all states operate.

 

Not true at all.......for example here are the Dec. rates for an 07 BMW X3. Check out the 24 month program (both the rate and residual).

2007 BMW X3 Wagon 3.0si 4WD / Compare Instant Lease Quotes

Add 2 points for 12k/miles.

24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 75% of MSRP – .00150 Base Money Factor Rate
36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 65% of MSRP – .00150 Base Money Factor Rate
48 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 41% of MSRP – .00322 Base Money Factor Rate
60 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 33% of MSRP – .00322 Base Money Factor Rate


Also, the second thing you said which is not true is that when someone leases they can't afford to buy it.

So, if someone is leasing an Sclass for 1,500 month for 36 months. You don't think they could have financed over a longer term?

All don't talk about paying cash as a basis of what one can afford, 98%+ of luxury car buyers don't pay cash for their cars.

 

Beltfed where can I find information like that or are you compiling it going out to BMW's site and just tabling it? Or is it a dealer thing?

 

if you were to do a 3 year lease, that 3 years would cost you less than what you'd pay to own the car but at the end of the 3 years, you're left with nothing; whereas if you bought the car, you could keep it, drive it as many miles as you wanted without paying a premium, and then sell it for maybe half or even more than what you bought it for. but yes, the residual value plays a big part in how high or low your payments are.

 

i say buy it. usually only bmw's lease out well

 

Bullshit, if you put down the same $ on the finance as you do on the lease and dump both after 36 months....you definitely will not come out ahead on the buy.

.00150 base rate = 3.6% interest.

The lease deal is fantastic, but unless you're a leasing retard.....you take the 24 month program as it's approx $10 more a month than the 36 month deal.

aesir11......you can get the info on various car forums.

 

ok you win. it's definitely better to lease for 3 years, go back and trade it and get another one, and do that once more than to buy a car and keep it for 9 years and get your money's worth.

 

Who the hell keeps cars for 9 years, at least with people who are enthusiasts? If you're cheap or have other pressing obligations that's a different story.

Aspects of life in general change so little, one of the few things that you can change is your car.

 

heh. me and my family have always kept our cars (daily drivers) for at least 6 years. it's how you get your moneys worth, rather than running off every 3 years to give it back to the dealer and get left with no resale money and no car.

 

What I really want to know is how well does it park itself if you got that upgrade.

 

48 months, a couple grand discount, and you're paying 1400 a month? Are you fokin crazy? You got raped!
Here's what it SHOULD be, paying the 1st month, use tax, bank fee and plates upfront, no money down:


Automobile: New 2007 LEXUS LS460 9120 4d Sdn L w/AC , Automatic , Odom: 0
Vehicle Cost: 82,500.00 MSRP: 85,947.00 Term: 48
State: Colorado County: EL PASO City: COLORADO SPRINGS Lease Type: Monthly
Lender: Lexus Sign & Drive+ 730+, 12,000, Acq: UPF, Sec: 1,Standard,Eastern Region

Money Due at Inception

1st Month Payment 1,282.25
Security Deposits 0.00
Acquisition Fee 600.00
Fees & Insurance 0.00
Upfront Taxes 438.24
Cap Reduction (Cash) 0.00
Total Out of Pocket 2,320.49
Gross Trade 0.00
Owed Trade 0.00
Customer Rebate 0.00
Last Payment 0.00
Total Initial Charges 2,320.49
Payment Information

Base Payment 1,234.12
Monthly State (2.9000) 35.79
Monthly RTD (1.0000) 12.34
Final Payment 1,282.25
Profit

Markup 0.00
Option Profit 0.00
Acquisition Fee Profit 0.00
Trade Profit 0.00
Tax Credit Profit 0.00
Tax Credit Fee 0.00
Back End (70.00%) 0.00
Total Profit 0.00
Rate Information

Retention Rate 0.00265
Reserve Rate 0.00000
Disclosed Rate 0.00265
Residual Information

MSRP 85,947.00
Low MSRP 0.00
MRM 0.00
Con Van Residual 0.00
Residual (Base) 43.00
Residual (Bump) % 2.00
Residual (Bump) $ 0.00
Additional Miles Adj. (0.00)
Odometer Over Adj. (0.00)
Total Residual 38,676.15
Dealer Options 0.00
Factory Options 0.00
Purchase Option 38,676.15
Capitalized Cost Breakdown

Vehicle Cost 82,500.00
Markup 0.00
Option Price 0.00
Total Selling Price 82,500.00
Acquisition Fee 0.00
Fees & Insurance 0.00
Dealer Rebate 0.00
- Cap Reduction (Cash) 0.00
- Trade In 0.00
- Customer Rebate 0.00
Total Capital Reduction 0.00
Capital Cost 82,500.00
Capped Taxes 0.00
Total Capital Cost: 82,500.00
Tax Breakdown

Type Amt Rate Paid
Use County 438.24 1.0000 Upfront
Mileage Information

Allowed Miles Per Year 12,000
Mileage Program 12,000
Add. Purchased Miles per Yr 0.00
Additional Miles Chrg 0.00
Total Mileage Chrg 0.00
Total Mileage Allowed 48,000
Excess Mileage Chrg 0.20
Odometer 0
Trade Information

Total Gross Trade 0.00
Total Owed Trade 0.00
Total ACV Trade 0.00
Maximum Advance Information

Max Advance $ 98,839.05
Max Advance % 115.00
Miscellaneous Information

Tax Credit Amount 0.00
Max. Reserve Rate 0.00100


** signifies that value was entered by user.


How does that make any sense? They probably discounted the car and bumped you on the rate, making it up on the back end. Even if you put EVERYTHING in the payments, paying only the first month and plates, you're at $1,307.72/month.

 

No, you're not left with nothing. You merely paid for the depreciation value of the car for the duration of the lease term.

If you financed it for 5 years, and sold it after 3 years, then you still owe 2 years of note on it. Whatever you get for the car, most, if not all, and sometimes even more than that amount, has to go to pay off the note.

In either case, you end up with no car and no loan. The main difference is that with financing it then selling it, you just can't tell how it's going to end up.

Whereas with leasing, the terms are set. You know what you're going to pay. The key to leasing is finding the good deals. If you're stupid, then you will pay a lot of money unnecessarily. But if you shop around, and shop around smart, you can come out on top.

As for your claim that if you bought it that you could drive it all you want.... Well, with every mile you put on it, you're depreciating its value. Just like with a lease, you will pay for that depreciation sooner or later. So your argument is completely invalid.

Also, "nothing to show for it" is truly inaccurate. It's no different than buying a car then selling it. In a lease. you pay for the depreciation value (with the profit factored in, of course) during the lease term; just like you would buy a car then sell it after 3 years. You will take a hit on the depreciation during the 3 years. Whatever money you may have left over, well, that's most likely going toward paying off the loan. It's not really money you made out of the car. Even if you have no outstanding loan and actually have cash left over, well, you're only getting back the money you paid up front. So it's an illusion. In either case of buying and leasing, at the end, you have sold or returned the car, and paid off the loan if any... the difference is that with a lease, you're done, as long as you don't have penalties. It was all figured out up front. But with a purchase, well, you better hope that the value of the car is more than the loan pay-off amount. Then you have to go through the process of selling it. Some people just like the convenience of leasing, even at a premium. To each his own. But you can't possibly sit there and say that leasing is stupid, when clearly it does make more financial sense to some people. There are people out there who would say that you're stupid for buying, when leasing is so much more convenient and could actually prove to be a better deal.

And I could not disagree more about how leasees are leasing vehicles that they couldn't otherwise afford. Some people just like the terms all worked out; at the end of the lease term, all they have to do is drop it off and go shopping for a new car. You can't do that when you/bank own it. To some people, whatever they may have to pay extra is worth the convenience and getting a new car every few years... as long as you shop smart and find a good deal, it could actually work out better.

 

Very good discussions here. Wow, if the emergency fund is in place and you can rock a $1400 payment withouy throwing any other budget numbers off, don't sweat it; enjoy the car and the deal you got. Sounds like in a worst case scenario you're only off $100/month with the deal you made ($1400 vs. $1307 form an earlier formula) I'd imagine you probably do several $100 lunches a month, so no biggie. Congrats, though!

 

im tryin to figure out what monthly state (2.9) monthly rtd (1.0) means? is that the tax rate? we pay 7.4 on taxes.. or maybe im not understanding.. but so im lookin at my lease agreement and the base monthly is 1297.47 with the 7.4 tax it came out to 1393.48.. the numbers look right, but then again all these numbers are confusing me..
as someone posted earlier i guess it all had to do with the residual value. the payments isnt really the issue cuz i know i wouldnt have gotten any better deal.. its just the question of should i have bought it or leased it.

 

ahh i keep loggin under the wrong name.. oops
i have yet to try the assisted parking feature.. i honestly dont think ill use it in the real world.. more of a party feature.. colo spgs doesnt have much parallel parking spots.. so yea

 

otherwise, how do you like the car? i really love the new LS. it's absolutely gorgeous inside and out. the only thing that kinda made me scratch my head was the fact that only the passengers side back seat reclines...i guess they did that so the driver wouldn't have to move forward to make room for the backseat passenger?

 

I'm not as familiar with how the tax is in CO. I punched in your state and county into my system and this is what came up. Here's a breakdown of what and how you're paying the taxes:
Colorado Springs, CO 80901 Sales Tax
Colorado State 2.9%
Regional Transportation District 1%
El Paso County 1%
Colorado Springs City 2.5%
Total tax 7.4%

Colorado Springs, CO 80901 Use Tax
Colorado State 2.9%
Regional Transportation District 1%
El Paso County --
Colorado Springs City 2.5%
Total tax 6.4%

 

Which username is your active one? This one or hpaq?

BTW, nice ride. I love the new LS, but at the moment we're staying away from cars and putting our money into investments. Good luck with it though!!

 

i use this one more than hpaq. i think i created hpaq cuz i couldnt figure out what this username was
definately got money in investments.. maxing out my roth ira every year so i can be a millionaire when i retire

absolutely love the car.. ive only gotten 200 miles on it so far, havent had any long drives but sure love the supple leather seats, definately more comfortable than the 7 was, the mark levison package, wow just wow and i thought logic 7 in the bmw was nice..
now about the back seats.. i think u are referring to the executive package where it only reclines with the footrest on the passenger back.. i dont have that package.. i am not gonna be having nobody sittin back there be chaffeured while im driving.. i think its a waste of the middle seat also .. but yes so far so good, have yet to even attempt the parking feature
wanted to put the rims i had on the 7 buuut i guess the fitment is off.. so ill be selling those rims.. anybody want them

 

You're kidding right... I hope the only reason why you can max out your Roth every year is because you're setup as a Corp. thus limiting your income to $150k a year...

...eh you know what, different strokes for different folks...

 

maybe i shoulda said "contributing" the max is 4grand i thinks.. maybe we are talking about diff things..

 

You are restricted from making any contributions after 160k for married and $110k for singles.

At <150k (<95k for singles) you and your husband can contribute 4 grand each.

Between 150 and 160k for married you can contribute to the Roth on a scale. (95k and a 110k for singles). Basically the closer you get to 160k the closer you can contribute goes to 0.

Anyway, I shouldn't have said anything. I just expected the combined incomes of you and your husband to be more than that when buying an $83k car, but I probably shouldn't say much considering I once bought a $56k Boxster S in what was probably a proportional situation to yours. (I.e. car was a little over half of what I made.)

Fact is everyone has unique situations, which allow them to do unique things. I started to pass judgement on someone I don't know and I wouldn't want someone to pass judgement on me...so I apologize. I've just seen to many of my idiot friends making $60k a year buying things they have no business buying when there is no money behind them to back them if things go wrong...

 

ah dont worry bout it.. i just starting contributing this last year, so i guess im not up on all the numbers.. just wanted to stress that i am investing maxing my 401k at work..just didnt want people to think im just a 27yr old that is setting herself up for destruction..

 

Well, having two user IDs is a ... so the hpaq ID has been disabled.

And by investments, I wasn't talking about 401k's. While we invest in those as well, we have money in real-estate and businesses as well. That is where all of our money is going rather then depreciating assets (like cars). At least for now... until we make our next automotive purchase (which will be a pre-owned to allow for some other sucker to take the major depreciation hit)

BTW, didn't you used to live in Brooklyn (hence the user ID)? When did you move to CO? Did you buy a place out there??

 

sorry bout the other username.. we bought a condo for my parents so that is our investment in that realm.. nah never even been to NY haha. i think i might have explained my reasoning behind the username way back when i first signed up.. born in thailand came to the states at the age of 2, ended up in mobile, al.. dont kno how and came to the colo at 3.. been here ever since

 

Seriously, you "hope?" WTF? No offense, but 1400 a month takes alot more thought and research. How long did you take to make this decision?

 

Well stated and I couldn't agree more I'm leasing my RL versus choosing to buy it outright. In hindsight, it was a good decision for me as I could not see myself keeping this car over 3 years despite how good it is. And if lackluster sales have been any indication, the depreciation hit on this car only cements my decision further. I can't imagine having 'purchased' this car and then trying to sell it in 3 to 6 years. I doubt the true market valuation on this car would cover whatever loan I would've initially taken out for the purchase. In contrast, I don't have to worry about that as I can merely take it back to the dealer during term end and shop for something newer and better. And since the RL isn't my one and only car, I don't worry about being car-less at the end of the lease, which gives me plenty of time to research and shop. This is ideal for me as I have a tendency to go through cars every 3 years or so. What can I say, I'm an enthusiast. I realize it's not the most financially prudent course, but it works for me financially and emotionally. Let's face it, especially for those of us on a message board, cars are an emotional appeal no matter how we try to play the convenience, economical, or reliable card. As stated by others, leasing isn't for everyone, but if you do your homework there are superb deals to be had.

Oh, and back to the original topic. $1400/month to lease the LS460L!?! Damn, that's money. But if you have your financials in order, more power to you. Seeing how you've gone through a 6 & 7 Series BMW, you strike me as a "gotta have the latest" type. JMO of course. So maybe leasing isn't so bad.

 

please dont make it sound like i went in there and just signed on the dotted line.. i knew what people were paying for their ls and its about the same range that im paying.. it was definately an emotional purchase for me.. since i didnt want to leave without the keys in my hand. i came here just to get opinions on what people would have considered.. after reading most of the posts.. this is definately the best option for me (us) since yes we like change cars every 3-4yrs
i kno im not the only one that has doubted a decision they have made, either way i was going to get it..

 

Wouldn't worry about it. What's done is done. Sounds like you might have only been able to save another $100 a month at best anyway. $100 isn't that much so don't sweat it. It's a nice car.