Let's debate this: Synthetic vs. Conventional
01-13-2006, 01:49 AM
#42
Because Of You
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You may want to understand who and why they put syn oil in the car in the first place.
The syn oil was invented in 1911 and was used in WWII in the figther air planes. A retired fighter pilot was having trouble starting his car becasue of the very cold area he lived. So, he got some used syn oil from his figther plane and put it in his car. Amazingly, his car started without anymore problem. So, he began to sell used syn oil to use in cars.
As you can see, the advanage of using syn oil is that it is very thin and won't freeze up in cold (make it very cold) weather. And it won't boil up in high (make it very high) temperature (if you have a air plane of course)
So... if you warm up your car before rev it up, using traditional oil has no difference from using syn oil.
So, just save yourself some $$ for something else.
The syn oil was invented in 1911 and was used in WWII in the figther air planes. A retired fighter pilot was having trouble starting his car becasue of the very cold area he lived. So, he got some used syn oil from his figther plane and put it in his car. Amazingly, his car started without anymore problem. So, he began to sell used syn oil to use in cars.
As you can see, the advanage of using syn oil is that it is very thin and won't freeze up in cold (make it very cold) weather. And it won't boil up in high (make it very high) temperature (if you have a air plane of course)
So... if you warm up your car before rev it up, using traditional oil has no difference from using syn oil.
So, just save yourself some $$ for something else.
01-13-2006, 02:41 AM
#44
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Michael Wan
I confirmed what I wrote previously with a GM engineer....he was the one who told me about the dino oil in cold temp business...as he himself did MANY cold weather tests with dino oil at -40 for validation testing purposes...
Whatever residual oil that remains in the bearings will stay there when the temp is -40...it is very thick and that point and will a high load carrying capacity...it is enough to provide lubrication to the moving parts until the oil is warmed up. There is very little flow needed initially and the lubrication aspect is satisfied by the oil flim leftover.
Your post seems to forget that there is oil leftover on moving parts and at -40 whatever oil trapped in the bearings won't hemmorage out....at least not quickly.
I don't disagree that using synthetic will be beneficial at -40 startups purely due to the more rapid cranking speed, but it isn't needed lubrication wise.
BTW, if syn oils really provided a significant wear reduction over dino oils at cold temp startups, I wonder how all of those engines, running dino oils in the past, were able to survive and still last a long time before syn oils were common.
Whatever residual oil that remains in the bearings will stay there when the temp is -40...it is very thick and that point and will a high load carrying capacity...it is enough to provide lubrication to the moving parts until the oil is warmed up. There is very little flow needed initially and the lubrication aspect is satisfied by the oil flim leftover.
Your post seems to forget that there is oil leftover on moving parts and at -40 whatever oil trapped in the bearings won't hemmorage out....at least not quickly.
I don't disagree that using synthetic will be beneficial at -40 startups purely due to the more rapid cranking speed, but it isn't needed lubrication wise.
BTW, if syn oils really provided a significant wear reduction over dino oils at cold temp startups, I wonder how all of those engines, running dino oils in the past, were able to survive and still last a long time before syn oils were common.
In any event, since I get winter every year and it can get pretty cold up where I am,.............it would be a good idea to use synthetic right,.......at least in the winter months????
01-13-2006, 10:27 AM
#45
Burning Brakes
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All oil is good. But the reason I prefer syn oil is my engine seems to run less rumble and rev freer compare to running dino oil in my engine. less rumble and freer rev do justify my extra $20 per each 7k interval oil change since I do redline at least once everyday.
01-13-2006, 02:10 PM
#46
Registered Abuser of VTEC
I run synthetic oil, and change it at every 12000km. It's also very cold here, and I like to rev high often (multiple times daily). I've been getting better fuel economy with the synthetic oil as far as I can tell.
01-13-2006, 02:26 PM
#47
GEEZER
Originally Posted by Teh Jatt
I wanna take bath in motor oil.
01-13-2006, 05:15 PM
#48
I feel the need...
Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
I use synthetic every 6k miles for the peace of mind. That alone is worth the extra cost to me. Plus i dont drive like a granny and my turbo likes fresh oil. I also dont want a sludge issue.
That's why I use synthetic. Also, it's a time saver to change oil every 6k instead of every 3k.
01-13-2006, 06:27 PM
#49
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I used to be on the syn wagon but switch back to standard oil @5k intervals. Didn't really see the benefit considering that while the oil may maintain its properties longer, the oil filter still needs to be chenged at shorter intervals- changing the filter is the only part of the job I find that makes a mess, the oil itself can be changed in a couple of minutes. So for me I'd rather just save the money and change both the oil and filter at the same time. I don't plan on keeping another car past 100kmiles, but the last car I did was running strong with 150k miles with above 3500mile change intervals on standard oil.
01-13-2006, 08:52 PM
#50
Changin bulbs since '73
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my car idles smoother since i have switched to synthetic 
i didn't get any improved gas mileage as I had hoped, though
initially i thought it did but nuthin now. Maybe I need a tune-up.
i didn't get any improved gas mileage as I had hoped, though
initially i thought it did but nuthin now. Maybe I need a tune-up.
01-17-2006, 02:44 AM
#52
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Hey i currently have synthetic in my TL right now, and its due up for oil change
IS IT SAFE TO SWITCH BACK TO CONVENTIONAL? or should i put in synthetic again
and i can change synthetic every 6k?!?!?!? damn....the fucking jiffy lube people said 3k
geuss i can drive a few more thousand miles haha
IS IT SAFE TO SWITCH BACK TO CONVENTIONAL? or should i put in synthetic again
and i can change synthetic every 6k?!?!?!? damn....the fucking jiffy lube people said 3k
geuss i can drive a few more thousand miles haha
01-17-2006, 07:02 PM
#53
Moderator
Thread Starter
Yes cigarette guy...just that I don't have much respect for the crappy Jiffy Lube filters. Next time, drop by Napa Auto Parts and pick-up a Napa Gold Oil Filter for your TL, its about $6-$7, and run the Jiffy Lube installed Pennzoil Platinum for 7500 miles.
BTW...run the current fill for 5000 miles.
BTW...run the current fill for 5000 miles.
01-19-2006, 02:26 AM
#56
My Member is Registered
Long read but worth it
http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/whysynthetics.shtml
Why Petroleum Oils are Insufficient
Conventional petroleum oils are insufficient for use in today's vehicles primarily because they are a refined substance. Unfortunately, no refining process is perfect. Impurities will always remain when any refining process is done. Thus, there are many components of petroleum oils which are completely unnecessary for protecting your engine. They do absolutely nothing to lubricate your engine. In fact, there are even some components of petroleum oils which are actually harmful to your engine.
Prone to Break Down
Some of the chemicals in conventional lubricants break down at temperatures within the normal operating range of many vehicle and equipment components. Others are prone to break down in these relatively mild temperatures only if oxygen is present. But, this is invariably the case anyway. These thermally and oxidatively unstable contaminants do absolutely nothing to aid in the lubrication process. They are only present in conventional petroleum oils because removing them would be impossible or excessively expensive.
When thermal or oxidative break down of petroleum oil occurs, it leaves engine components coated with varnish, deposits and sludge. In addition, the lubricant which is left is thick, hard to pump and maintains little heat transfer ability.
Poor Cold Temperature Start-ups
Petroleum lubricants are also likely to contain paraffins which thicken dramatically in cold temperatures. As a result, petroleum lubricants will not readily circulate through your engine's oil system during cold weather. This may leave engine parts unprotected for as long as five minutes after startup! Obviously, significant wear can occur during this time frame.
Marginal Heat Control
Even when all conditions are perfect for conventional oils to do their job, they still don't do it all that well. Part of the problem is that (because of their refined nature) petroleum oils are composed of molecules which vary greatly in size. As the oil flows through your vehicle's lubrication system, the small, light molecules tend to flow in the center of the oil stream while the large, heavy ones adhere to metal surfaces where they create a barrier against heat movement from the component to the oil stream. In effect, the large, heavy molecules work like a blanket around hot components.
There is another effect of the non-uniformity of petroleum oil molecules which reduces their effectiveness as well. Uniformly smooth molecules slip over one another with relative ease. This is not the case with molecules of differing size. It would be much like putting one layer of marbles on top of another. If the marbles were all of the same size, they would move over one another fairly easily. However, if they were all of differing sizes, the result would be much less efficient. In the case of petroleum oils this inefficiency leads, ironically, to added friction in the system (the very thing that lubricants are supposed to reduce). Hence, petroleum oils are only marginally capable of controlling heat in your engine.
Maybe Adequate is OK for You
Once again, I would like to state that petroleum oils ARE adequate for the purpose of protecting your engine. Under normal circumstances, most vehicles lubricated with petroleum oil should run satisfactorily for 100,000 to 150,000 miles without serious incidence. However, in order to achieve this life expectancy it will be imperative that you change your oil every 3,000 to 5,000 miles religiously.
So, if you like the hassle of changing your oil regularly and you are only looking for marginal performance for the next 100,000 miles, feel free to use petroleum oils. By the way, if you're interested, I've got an old dishwasher for sale too. You have to rinse your dishes first, it's really loud and runs for about 3 hours, but it gets most of the food off of our plates. It's a steal at only $50. Let me know if you're interested.
However, if you aren't all that fond of pulling dirty dishes out of your dishwasher, I'm going to assume that you don't relish the idea of changing your oil every 3,000 miles or dealing with another pushy car salesman every 3 to 5 years either. If that's true, keep reading. I think you're going to like this.
Synthetic Oils Simply Perform Better
There are five main areas where synthetic oils surpass their petroleum counterparts:
* Oil drains can be extended
* Vehicle life can be extended
* Costly repairs can be reduced
* Fuel mileage can be improved
* Performance can be improved
Synthetic lubricant molecules are pure and of uniform size. This is because synthetic oils are designed from the ground up with the sole purpose of protecting your engine. Nothing is added if it does not significantly contribute to the lubricating ability of the oil. In addition, in top-quality synthetics, no component is added which is contaminated with any substance that might lessen the lubricating qualities of the oil. Not only that, synthetic oils are designed so that the molecules are of uniform size and weight. This significantly adds to the lubricating qualities of the oil.
Extended Oil Drains
Heat and oxidation are the main enemies of lubricant basestocks - especially of the contaminants in conventional basestocks. Once a lubricant has begun to break down, it must be replaced so that the vehicle is not damaged by lack of lubrication or chemical attack. However, since synthetic oils are designed from pure, uniform synthetic basestocks, they contain no contaminants or unstable molecules which are prone to thermal and oxidative break down.
Moreover, because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic lubricants operate with less friction than petroleum oils which have the non-uniform molecular structure discussed earlier. The result is better heat control, and less heat means less stress to the lubricant. Thus, synthetic oils can be used safely for much longer drain intervals than conventional lubricants. In fact, AMSOIL synthetic oils have been guaranteed for 25,000 miles or one year since 1972. Red Line Oil also recommends long drain intervals of 10,000 to 18,000 miles.
You might ask why other synthetic oil manufacturers are not recommending extended oil drains for their synthetics. The answer is really very simple: money. They are afraid that if they recommend longer drain intervals, they won't sell enough oil - petroleum oil, that is.
You see, petroleum oil is their golden goose, and has been for years. The only reason large oil companies produce a synthetic oil is because somebody else did it first (AMSOIL), and they must please the small (but growing) percentage of the population which has already decided that synthetics are better and won't purchase anything else.
Petroleum oil is where the money is. With recommended oil drains of only 3,000 miles, many people are changing their oil 5 to 8 times per year. If everyone suddenly switched over to synthetics, they would begin to realize that it is possible to go 10,000 to 25,000 miles or more without an oil change (depending upon the oil). This is a scary thought for large oil companies who depend upon regular oil changes for their business.
Extended Vehicle Life With Fewer Repairs:
HEAT REDUCTION
More often than not, vehicle life is determined by engine life. One of the major factors affecting engine life is component wear and/or failure, which is often the result of high temperature operation. The uniformly smooth molecular structure of synthetic oils gives them a much lower coefficient of friction (they slip more easily over one another causing less friction) than petroleum oils. Less friction, of course, means less heat in the system. And, since heat is a major contributor to engine component wear and failure, synthetic oils significantly reduce these two detrimental effects.
In addition, because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic oils do not cause the "blanket effect" which was mentioned earlier. Since each molecule in a synthetic oil is of uniform size, each is equally likely to touch a component surface at any given time, thus moving a certain amount of heat into the oil stream and away from the component. This makes synthetic oils far superior heat transfer agents than conventional petroleum oils.
ENGINE DEPOSIT REDUCTION
In discussing some of the pitfalls of petroleum oil use, engine cleanliness was an issue. Petroleum oils tend to leave sludge, varnish and deposits behind after thermal and oxidative break down. This leads to a significant reduction in engine performance and engine life as well as increasing the number of costly repairs that are necessary. Since synthetic oils have far superior thermal and oxidative stability than petroleum oils, they leave engines varnish, deposit and sludge-free.
COLD TEMPERATURE FLUIDITY
Synthetic oils and other lubricants do not contain paraffins or other waxes which dramatically thicken petroleum oils during cold weather. As a result, they tend to flow much better during cold temperature starts and begin lubricating an engine almost immediately. This leads to significant engine wear reduction, and, therefore, longer engine life and fewer costly repairs.
Improved Fuel Mileage and Performance
As indicated earlier, synthetic oils, because of their uniform molecular structure, are tremendous friction reducers. It has already been stated that this is crucial to extending engine life, but it must also be mentioned that less friction leads to increased fuel economy and improved engine performance. Of course, logic points in that direction anyway. Any energy released from the combustion process that would normally be lost to friction can now be transferred directly to the wheels, providing movement. Vehicle acceleration becomes swifter and more powerful while using less fuel in the process.
The uniform molecular structure of synthetic oils has another performance enhancing benefit as well. In a petroleum oil, lighter molecules tend to boil off easily, leaving behind much heavier molecules which are difficult to pump. Certainly, the engine looses more energy pumping these heavy molecules than if it were pumping lighter ones. Since synthetic oils have more uniform molecules, fewer of these molecules tend to boil off. Moreover, when they do, the molecules which are left are of the same size and pumpability is not affected. Obviously, the end result is little loss of fuel economy or performance.
Those Who Know, Agree
According to a technical paper (850564.1985) by the Society of Automotive Engineers, "Laboratory engine dynamometer, vehicle chassis rolls and over-the-road field tests confirm the outstanding performance capabilities for optimized synthetic engine oils in passenger car diesel as well as gasoline engines, including severe turbocharged models...Vehicle testing under severe and extended drain conditions demonstrates the performance reserve available with these synthetic engine oils. In addition to excellent protection against critical high-temperature piston deposits, ring sticking, overall engine cleanliness and wear, these synthetic oils offer fuel savings and superior low temperature fluidity."
In 1989, Mechanical Engineering Transactions had this to say in its 1989 Synthetic versus Mineral Fluids in Lubrication article: "Oil drain intervals in both industrial and automotive applications can be extended typically by a factor of four due to the improved oxidative stability of appropriately additized synthetics."
It's Your Choice
Ultimately, it does not matter what we say. You have to decide how important these factors are to you. If you don't mind changing your oil every 3,000 miles and you'd purchase a new vehicle every 2 or 3 years regardless of its condition, maybe you don't need synthetics. Of course, the fuel savings and performance may still make the switch worth it. However, once again, the determination of whether to convert your vehicle over to synthetics can only be based on the relative importance that you place on any of these benefits.
Why Petroleum Oils are Insufficient
Conventional petroleum oils are insufficient for use in today's vehicles primarily because they are a refined substance. Unfortunately, no refining process is perfect. Impurities will always remain when any refining process is done. Thus, there are many components of petroleum oils which are completely unnecessary for protecting your engine. They do absolutely nothing to lubricate your engine. In fact, there are even some components of petroleum oils which are actually harmful to your engine.
Prone to Break Down
Some of the chemicals in conventional lubricants break down at temperatures within the normal operating range of many vehicle and equipment components. Others are prone to break down in these relatively mild temperatures only if oxygen is present. But, this is invariably the case anyway. These thermally and oxidatively unstable contaminants do absolutely nothing to aid in the lubrication process. They are only present in conventional petroleum oils because removing them would be impossible or excessively expensive.
When thermal or oxidative break down of petroleum oil occurs, it leaves engine components coated with varnish, deposits and sludge. In addition, the lubricant which is left is thick, hard to pump and maintains little heat transfer ability.
Poor Cold Temperature Start-ups
Petroleum lubricants are also likely to contain paraffins which thicken dramatically in cold temperatures. As a result, petroleum lubricants will not readily circulate through your engine's oil system during cold weather. This may leave engine parts unprotected for as long as five minutes after startup! Obviously, significant wear can occur during this time frame.
Marginal Heat Control
Even when all conditions are perfect for conventional oils to do their job, they still don't do it all that well. Part of the problem is that (because of their refined nature) petroleum oils are composed of molecules which vary greatly in size. As the oil flows through your vehicle's lubrication system, the small, light molecules tend to flow in the center of the oil stream while the large, heavy ones adhere to metal surfaces where they create a barrier against heat movement from the component to the oil stream. In effect, the large, heavy molecules work like a blanket around hot components.
There is another effect of the non-uniformity of petroleum oil molecules which reduces their effectiveness as well. Uniformly smooth molecules slip over one another with relative ease. This is not the case with molecules of differing size. It would be much like putting one layer of marbles on top of another. If the marbles were all of the same size, they would move over one another fairly easily. However, if they were all of differing sizes, the result would be much less efficient. In the case of petroleum oils this inefficiency leads, ironically, to added friction in the system (the very thing that lubricants are supposed to reduce). Hence, petroleum oils are only marginally capable of controlling heat in your engine.
Maybe Adequate is OK for You
Once again, I would like to state that petroleum oils ARE adequate for the purpose of protecting your engine. Under normal circumstances, most vehicles lubricated with petroleum oil should run satisfactorily for 100,000 to 150,000 miles without serious incidence. However, in order to achieve this life expectancy it will be imperative that you change your oil every 3,000 to 5,000 miles religiously.
So, if you like the hassle of changing your oil regularly and you are only looking for marginal performance for the next 100,000 miles, feel free to use petroleum oils. By the way, if you're interested, I've got an old dishwasher for sale too. You have to rinse your dishes first, it's really loud and runs for about 3 hours, but it gets most of the food off of our plates. It's a steal at only $50. Let me know if you're interested.
However, if you aren't all that fond of pulling dirty dishes out of your dishwasher, I'm going to assume that you don't relish the idea of changing your oil every 3,000 miles or dealing with another pushy car salesman every 3 to 5 years either. If that's true, keep reading. I think you're going to like this.
Synthetic Oils Simply Perform Better
There are five main areas where synthetic oils surpass their petroleum counterparts:
* Oil drains can be extended
* Vehicle life can be extended
* Costly repairs can be reduced
* Fuel mileage can be improved
* Performance can be improved
Synthetic lubricant molecules are pure and of uniform size. This is because synthetic oils are designed from the ground up with the sole purpose of protecting your engine. Nothing is added if it does not significantly contribute to the lubricating ability of the oil. In addition, in top-quality synthetics, no component is added which is contaminated with any substance that might lessen the lubricating qualities of the oil. Not only that, synthetic oils are designed so that the molecules are of uniform size and weight. This significantly adds to the lubricating qualities of the oil.
Extended Oil Drains
Heat and oxidation are the main enemies of lubricant basestocks - especially of the contaminants in conventional basestocks. Once a lubricant has begun to break down, it must be replaced so that the vehicle is not damaged by lack of lubrication or chemical attack. However, since synthetic oils are designed from pure, uniform synthetic basestocks, they contain no contaminants or unstable molecules which are prone to thermal and oxidative break down.
Moreover, because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic lubricants operate with less friction than petroleum oils which have the non-uniform molecular structure discussed earlier. The result is better heat control, and less heat means less stress to the lubricant. Thus, synthetic oils can be used safely for much longer drain intervals than conventional lubricants. In fact, AMSOIL synthetic oils have been guaranteed for 25,000 miles or one year since 1972. Red Line Oil also recommends long drain intervals of 10,000 to 18,000 miles.
You might ask why other synthetic oil manufacturers are not recommending extended oil drains for their synthetics. The answer is really very simple: money. They are afraid that if they recommend longer drain intervals, they won't sell enough oil - petroleum oil, that is.
You see, petroleum oil is their golden goose, and has been for years. The only reason large oil companies produce a synthetic oil is because somebody else did it first (AMSOIL), and they must please the small (but growing) percentage of the population which has already decided that synthetics are better and won't purchase anything else.
Petroleum oil is where the money is. With recommended oil drains of only 3,000 miles, many people are changing their oil 5 to 8 times per year. If everyone suddenly switched over to synthetics, they would begin to realize that it is possible to go 10,000 to 25,000 miles or more without an oil change (depending upon the oil). This is a scary thought for large oil companies who depend upon regular oil changes for their business.
Extended Vehicle Life With Fewer Repairs:
HEAT REDUCTION
More often than not, vehicle life is determined by engine life. One of the major factors affecting engine life is component wear and/or failure, which is often the result of high temperature operation. The uniformly smooth molecular structure of synthetic oils gives them a much lower coefficient of friction (they slip more easily over one another causing less friction) than petroleum oils. Less friction, of course, means less heat in the system. And, since heat is a major contributor to engine component wear and failure, synthetic oils significantly reduce these two detrimental effects.
In addition, because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic oils do not cause the "blanket effect" which was mentioned earlier. Since each molecule in a synthetic oil is of uniform size, each is equally likely to touch a component surface at any given time, thus moving a certain amount of heat into the oil stream and away from the component. This makes synthetic oils far superior heat transfer agents than conventional petroleum oils.
ENGINE DEPOSIT REDUCTION
In discussing some of the pitfalls of petroleum oil use, engine cleanliness was an issue. Petroleum oils tend to leave sludge, varnish and deposits behind after thermal and oxidative break down. This leads to a significant reduction in engine performance and engine life as well as increasing the number of costly repairs that are necessary. Since synthetic oils have far superior thermal and oxidative stability than petroleum oils, they leave engines varnish, deposit and sludge-free.
COLD TEMPERATURE FLUIDITY
Synthetic oils and other lubricants do not contain paraffins or other waxes which dramatically thicken petroleum oils during cold weather. As a result, they tend to flow much better during cold temperature starts and begin lubricating an engine almost immediately. This leads to significant engine wear reduction, and, therefore, longer engine life and fewer costly repairs.
Improved Fuel Mileage and Performance
As indicated earlier, synthetic oils, because of their uniform molecular structure, are tremendous friction reducers. It has already been stated that this is crucial to extending engine life, but it must also be mentioned that less friction leads to increased fuel economy and improved engine performance. Of course, logic points in that direction anyway. Any energy released from the combustion process that would normally be lost to friction can now be transferred directly to the wheels, providing movement. Vehicle acceleration becomes swifter and more powerful while using less fuel in the process.
The uniform molecular structure of synthetic oils has another performance enhancing benefit as well. In a petroleum oil, lighter molecules tend to boil off easily, leaving behind much heavier molecules which are difficult to pump. Certainly, the engine looses more energy pumping these heavy molecules than if it were pumping lighter ones. Since synthetic oils have more uniform molecules, fewer of these molecules tend to boil off. Moreover, when they do, the molecules which are left are of the same size and pumpability is not affected. Obviously, the end result is little loss of fuel economy or performance.
Those Who Know, Agree
According to a technical paper (850564.1985) by the Society of Automotive Engineers, "Laboratory engine dynamometer, vehicle chassis rolls and over-the-road field tests confirm the outstanding performance capabilities for optimized synthetic engine oils in passenger car diesel as well as gasoline engines, including severe turbocharged models...Vehicle testing under severe and extended drain conditions demonstrates the performance reserve available with these synthetic engine oils. In addition to excellent protection against critical high-temperature piston deposits, ring sticking, overall engine cleanliness and wear, these synthetic oils offer fuel savings and superior low temperature fluidity."
In 1989, Mechanical Engineering Transactions had this to say in its 1989 Synthetic versus Mineral Fluids in Lubrication article: "Oil drain intervals in both industrial and automotive applications can be extended typically by a factor of four due to the improved oxidative stability of appropriately additized synthetics."
It's Your Choice
Ultimately, it does not matter what we say. You have to decide how important these factors are to you. If you don't mind changing your oil every 3,000 miles and you'd purchase a new vehicle every 2 or 3 years regardless of its condition, maybe you don't need synthetics. Of course, the fuel savings and performance may still make the switch worth it. However, once again, the determination of whether to convert your vehicle over to synthetics can only be based on the relative importance that you place on any of these benefits.
01-19-2006, 03:40 AM
#58
Registered Abuser of VTEC
I also had a problem where at very high RPM, my oil was being "flashed" away. When I switched to synthetic, I no longer had that problem. I spend a lot of time up at 4000-7000RPM. On an old old engine like mine, it's better to use synthetic so my oil doesn't burn (flash) at high RPM. And I do get measurably better fuel economy in the cold temperatures here.
I noticed that if I stayed at low RPM with dino oil, I didn't lose any oil.
I noticed that if I stayed at low RPM with dino oil, I didn't lose any oil.
01-19-2006, 10:16 PM
#59
Moderator
Thread Starter
Yeah...Yeah...
Amsoil salesman...
Wackos...seriously hate some of those guys. They make conventional oil sound like its from the 1960s...:lol:
Look...most people never operate their car to a point where oil temps get beyond >305F and require a syn oil to reduce thermal breakdown. Dino oil does not need to be change every 3000-5000 miles under most conditions, as most API SM rated oils can go 5000-7000 miles quite easily.
Also, I don't think I've EVER seen synthetic oil reduce wear in a daily driver...period. More by the Amsoil crooks.
Lastly, how many times have I actually seen Amsoil last 25K/1yr? It seems like 1-yr or 15K with a filter change/top-off mid-way is already pushing it sometimes. Not to mention the cost...conventional oil is much cheaper to run and the frequent changes may reduce the solids buildup.
Amsoil salesman... Wackos...seriously hate some of those guys. They make conventional oil sound like its from the 1960s...:lol:Look...most people never operate their car to a point where oil temps get beyond >305F and require a syn oil to reduce thermal breakdown. Dino oil does not need to be change every 3000-5000 miles under most conditions, as most API SM rated oils can go 5000-7000 miles quite easily.
Also, I don't think I've EVER seen synthetic oil reduce wear in a daily driver...period. More
by the Amsoil crooks.Lastly, how many times have I actually seen Amsoil last 25K/1yr? It seems like 1-yr or 15K with a filter change/top-off mid-way is already pushing it sometimes. Not to mention the cost...conventional oil is much cheaper to run and the frequent changes may reduce the solids buildup.
01-19-2006, 10:46 PM
#60
luvs redheads!
My father sent in shaeffers oil synthetic out of his F350 diesel at 10k and they said due to the test it had not broken down. My dad lied and said it was a 5k oil change.....
Also, have you heard the reason why you are not supposed to use fully synthetic oil in new engines?? They are so good at anti-friction etc..that the engine cannot break in or seat the rings fully.
synthetics helped my engine out a lot. a lot. Just get a good brand though.
Also, have you heard the reason why you are not supposed to use fully synthetic oil in new engines?? They are so good at anti-friction etc..that the engine cannot break in or seat the rings fully.
synthetics helped my engine out a lot. a lot. Just get a good brand though.
01-19-2006, 10:53 PM
#61
Moderator
Thread Starter
You can use syn oil at any time, period. BMW, MB, Jag, GM, etc shipping thousands of cars weekly factory filled with the correct syn oil.
I used to like Schaeffer's very much...it was able to do 7500 mile drains (comparable to M1) at about 70% of the cost (of M1).
But, with the intro of API SM oils, I no longer saw the point of Schaeffer's. Schaeffer's was an absolute PITA to obtain...with shipping it ended up around $3.75/qt...(not bad). The only reason why I'd even use Schaeffer's is because of its ext. drain capability...but if OTC conventional oil can do the same intervals now for $1.50-$2/qt...why bother?
I used to like Schaeffer's very much...it was able to do 7500 mile drains (comparable to M1) at about 70% of the cost (of M1).
But, with the intro of API SM oils, I no longer saw the point of Schaeffer's. Schaeffer's was an absolute PITA to obtain...with shipping it ended up around $3.75/qt...(not bad). The only reason why I'd even use Schaeffer's is because of its ext. drain capability...but if OTC conventional oil can do the same intervals now for $1.50-$2/qt...why bother?
01-20-2006, 10:44 PM
#63
luvs redheads!
Originally Posted by Michael Wan
You can use syn oil at any time, period. BMW, MB, Jag, GM, etc shipping thousands of cars weekly factory filled with the correct syn oil.
I used to like Schaeffer's very much...it was able to do 7500 mile drains (comparable to M1) at about 70% of the cost (of M1).
But, with the intro of API SM oils, I no longer saw the point of Schaeffer's. Schaeffer's was an absolute PITA to obtain...with shipping it ended up around $3.75/qt...(not bad). The only reason why I'd even use Schaeffer's is because of its ext. drain capability...but if OTC conventional oil can do the same intervals now for $1.50-$2/qt...why bother?
I used to like Schaeffer's very much...it was able to do 7500 mile drains (comparable to M1) at about 70% of the cost (of M1).
But, with the intro of API SM oils, I no longer saw the point of Schaeffer's. Schaeffer's was an absolute PITA to obtain...with shipping it ended up around $3.75/qt...(not bad). The only reason why I'd even use Schaeffer's is because of its ext. drain capability...but if OTC conventional oil can do the same intervals now for $1.50-$2/qt...why bother?
u may be right..but they break their engines in before shipping more than likely. I has been proven and by the head tech i worked on that if you take a brand new car that had ??? in it..lets say a Camry or rebuilt an engine as swapped over to shaeffers you will burn oil. This was proven, the owner was freaking out, after two oil changes...4k later, then 8k later.....was fine. SO now you have fact with more personal fact..
you dont have to believe me. just stating what i have seen etc.
latta man.. good read.
05-06-2006, 09:10 PM
#64
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New SM dino oils, esp the 5w-20s go 10k.
Motorcraft
Havoline
Mobil Clean
I can do $10 oil changes with a nice Motorcraft FL-810 filter and run it 6000-8000 miles.
Driving short trips when the oil does not get full heated to self-cleaning temps is the limiting factor in service duration.
I don't hate synthetic oil, but if I'm paying extra, I want an oil that's worth it, like German Syntec 0w-30. Mobil 1 makes my eninges noisy.
Motorcraft
Havoline
Mobil Clean
I can do $10 oil changes with a nice Motorcraft FL-810 filter and run it 6000-8000 miles.
Driving short trips when the oil does not get full heated to self-cleaning temps is the limiting factor in service duration.
I don't hate synthetic oil, but if I'm paying extra, I want an oil that's worth it, like German Syntec 0w-30. Mobil 1 makes my eninges noisy.
05-06-2006, 09:14 PM
#65
Moderator
Thread Starter
AJ is bringing the M1 noise wars to AcuraZine...
AJ, this forum is full of M1 users and no one has reported noise issues...
I like the cheapest 5w-20 I can find with a Wix or PureOne filter for the duration of the Maintenance Minder system...
AJ, this forum is full of M1 users and no one has reported noise issues...
I like the cheapest 5w-20 I can find with a Wix or PureOne filter for the duration of the Maintenance Minder system...
05-07-2006, 05:38 PM
#68
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Umm, I'm somebody! Seriously, I'm hardly a bandwagon-jumper, but when I took the M1 out of my wife's CRV for Havoline Semi 10w-30, MAN was there a difference. Like night-n-day. I think if people switch brands around, they might notice M1 being way noiser.
05-07-2006, 05:40 PM
#69
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"In 1989, Mechanical Engineering Transactions had this to say in its 1989 Synthetic versus Mineral Fluids in Lubrication article: "Oil drain intervals in both industrial and automotive applications can be extended typically by a factor of four due to the improved oxidative stability of appropriately additized synthetics"
Huh? 1989 was like a million years ago. What was the API spec (for dino) then, SH?
Huh? 1989 was like a million years ago. What was the API spec (for dino) then, SH?
05-07-2006, 11:14 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by Shawn S
I was never a big believer of synthetic oils or 3,000 mile change intervals.
In my last three Acura’s I always ran dead dinosaurs and changed it at 7,500 miles.
Never had a problem and my Legend coupe ran just fine when I sold it at 110,000 miles.
The Vette I just got however requires Mobil1 so I’m going to go with that because of possible future warranty issues.
The Subaru will still get dino juice.
In my last three Acura’s I always ran dead dinosaurs and changed it at 7,500 miles.
Never had a problem and my Legend coupe ran just fine when I sold it at 110,000 miles.
The Vette I just got however requires Mobil1 so I’m going to go with that because of possible future warranty issues.
The Subaru will still get dino juice.
05-08-2006, 12:18 AM
#71
Registered Abuser of VTEC
Originally Posted by Water-S
I just had the Accord oil changed about 2 miles ago they put "plain jane" oil in it put 7500 on the sticker. I asked the service advisor if this was an error because 7500 is I thought rather a long time on regular oil. He said "No we went from 3500 to 7500 about the start of the year. don't sweat a think your car will be fine,man." and that's stright from a Honda service Advisor
I change my oil when the indicator tells me to. So far I've driven 2000km and it's at 80%.
05-08-2006, 01:53 AM
#72
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Originally Posted by youngTL
That's funny, my 06 Accord takes synthetic BLEND oil! Kind of a neither nor situation. I have free oil changes for the life of my car from my dealership as long as I own the vehicle, and they use the blend oil on all the new Hondas and it costs the same (but it's $0 for me hehe).
I change my oil when the indicator tells me to. So far I've driven 2000km and it's at 80%.
I change my oil when the indicator tells me to. So far I've driven 2000km and it's at 80%.
I about sh!t when that Service advisor said 7500 miles on normal oil. but hell he's the service advisor he knows what he's talking about.
05-08-2006, 09:45 AM
#73
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I've always run M1 in my cars after break-in. I usually change my oil between 5-6K in my Mustang. I figure I can pay the extra few bucks a quart over Dino because Synthetic offers superior protection. This is beneficial since it gets cold here in Chicago during winter and Dino oil become very thick at colder temperatures. I also beat the piss out of the car and run it at high rpms, so I need an oil that can take the abuse. A strong selling point is that almost every high performance engine in the marketplace comes with M1 as factory fill.
05-08-2006, 07:41 PM
#74
Registered Abuser of VTEC
Originally Posted by Water-S
my momma has a 05 Odyseey I'm not trying to blast on Honda but I HATE HATE HATE that oil life deal. not because I don't trust it but I bet in the next 2-3 years. you'll have these(sorry to sound sexist) ladies come into the Honda Dealerships saying "uh my car needs oil change" and it will have 10000 miles on the oil. There's no conventional oil and just as important oil filter out there that will withstand 10 k of average driving. I'm worried Honda is going to have engines fail be cause these ladies and people will run them till the oil totally shot and the lubrication quality isn't gonna be there.
I about sh!t when that Service advisor said 7500 miles on normal oil. but hell he's the service advisor he knows what he's talking about.
I about sh!t when that Service advisor said 7500 miles on normal oil. but hell he's the service advisor he knows what he's talking about.
My free oil change card says they will change my oil for free whenever the display says OR after 3 months. Whichever comes first. In 3 months I drive about 6000km. So I can get it every 6000km (remember that's only 3750 miles).
05-08-2006, 09:25 PM
#75
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Premuim Synth and going by the OLM is not a bad idea. Change interval for short trippers should be less due to the fact the oil does not get fully heated long enough to burn off condensation and excess fuel. Basicly, doing time intervals covers both short trippers and long-distance drivers. Soccer-mom who drives 3000 mi in short trips over 4 months or a highway man who goes 8000-9000 miles, like me, both are due for an OC after 4 months.
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