Let's debate this: Synthetic vs. Conventional
 

Alright, lets debate synthetic versus conventional oils. Why do many enthusiasts continuously endorse the usage of synthetic oils over conventionals? Most use the long-drain capability of synthetic oils as their reasoning, yet most users rarely exceed 5000-7000 miles in between oil drains with synthetics, a drain interval that modern API SM rated conventional oils can easily attain.

Of course, some cars do spec synthetic and require the usage of it. Some due to extra insurance against high-temperatures operating conditions (Oil Temps >305), and others prefer it as some VVT systems prefer the more linear viscosity of synthetic oil as it often uses the oil as a hydraulic fluid. Again, most people do have misconceptions and believe that conventional oils are inferior under high-temp conditions, when in fact, conventional oils can sustain temps of up to 305F without any problems….many do not understand why the Corvette specs a synthetic, it is NOT because of the drain interval, but to eliminate the usage of a costly (and possibly problematic) oil cooler.

Other than the rare conditions I mentioned above, which would require the usage of a synthetic oil, the vast majority of owners do not require the usage of synthetic oils. I find it quite amusing to walk into an auto parts store to see goof balls buying $6/qt Mobil 1 when $1.75/qt Mobil Clean 5000 can suit their drain interval and application just fine….

Thoughts? Mike

Synthetic is better if you live in colder climates (ex like me) because of its resistence to change in cold conditions. I just saw this demonstrated yesterday on a car show. There was quite a difference in the viscosity (I think that is the right term) between the conventional and synthetic when they were both left in the cold,...and then poured out of their respective containers onto a piston to illustrate the difference. You get better protection and easier/faster start ups with synthetic.

I think that synthetic results in less deposits in your engine or something like that (not too sure about this one,...I am not an expert).

Just did a quick search,.......some other things I found (note,...from exxon mobile site)
- enhanced high temp durability (reducing oxidation and wear)
- superior performance under heavy engine loads/stresses,...ex towing

What exactly is synthetic oil?

/dumbquestion

Micheal..I am starting to think you are sligtly unstable with all of these "Oil Threads"...:screwy:

I was never a big believer of synthetic oils or 3,000 mile change intervals.
In my last three Acura’s I always ran dead dinosaurs and changed it at 7,500 miles.
Never had a problem and my Legend coupe ran just fine when I sold it at 110,000 miles.

The Vette I just got however requires Mobil1 so I’m going to go with that because of possible future warranty issues.
The Subaru will still get dino juice.

I've been saying that for years and no one ever seemed to understand me. Unless it specifies synthetic or is a very special case(for example a turbo'd engine with increased boost but no oil cooler) I think most people are just throwing the money away. Another great use for synthetic oil is on a car that burns oil and spews blue smoke from the tail pipe, if you go to sell it use synthetic, due to the fact synthetic burns at a higher temp. it burns white and no one is the wise ;) I've run dino oil for literally hundreds of millions of miles and have NEVER experienced any problems.

The quick easy answer, conventional oil(dino oil) comes from the remains of dinosaur's, its supply is limited and its only found in certain area's of the world. Synthetic oil is man made, they take chemicals and combine them to create an oil that works similarly to conventional oil, but has a few different traits - this is much more costly to do, hence the higher cost for synthetic.

Shawn hit the nail on the head. I change my oil every 3500-4000 miles so Synthetic just isn't worth the extra cost envolved. :2cents:

Wan,

Might be early but i have no idea what you trying to say. You saying that people who use Synthetic change it only between 5k-7k intervals or dont?

I use synthetic every 6k miles for the peace of mind. That alone is worth the extra cost to me. Plus i dont drive like a granny and my turbo likes fresh oil. I also dont want a sludge issue.

I changed the oil in my escort with whatever I had at the moment whenever I remembered...no problems.

The PT gets Mobil 1 since the first oil change. I probably dont need it anymore as Im boosting around 12 lbs at most...but I used to run 17-18 all day long. Also, I change anywhere between 3-4,000 miles. If I had a n/a car I doubt I would run synthetic. Thats assuming, of course, that I could ever own a n/a car again.

:annoyed:

and one of them was burning oil like mad at 110k miles. 3k is the corrrect and generally accepted interval.

You're showing your age ;)

Yes, that USED to be the accepted interval, but with advances in oil technology, that's no longer the case.

Acura calls for 7500 between changes, and that's what I follow...

http://john-perry.com/acurazine/maintenance.pdf

If you want to believe people who have a financial interest in having you buy more of their products and services (oil and oil changes), go ahead, that's your choice, but It's not for me...

I did use Mobil 1 in my old v8 tbird, but I would run it for 9-10K miles... I probably could have gone with a longer interval, as the oil looked pretty clean when I changed it, but without analysis, I didn't know for sure. I drove 130 miles roundtrip to work every day, and needed the extra mileage so I didn't have to change the oil every 4 weeks.

I'm probably pushing it with 7500 oil change intervals, but I don't drive in what H/A calls "severe conditions". I probably should get my oil analyzed to see if I need to adjust my oil change interval tho'....

What he's saying is that some people don't take advantage of synths longer oil change interval, and are wasting money. If they change their oil every 5-7K miles, dino will work just as well... No need to use synth, and if they did, they could probably extend the oil change interval to over 10K miles (with oil analysis to verify that it was ok).

The key word here is "turbo"... The extra cost is probably worth it where the oil is exposed to the high temps generated by a turbo...

well, i bought shawns's integra from him at 95k miles. by the time 110k rolled around, the car was burning shitloads of oil. it would be hard to prove that his 7500 mile oil change practices were definitely the cause, but i think i'll take it as a lesson learned. 3k miles for me and i wont be buying any used cars from you guys ;) .

Oh that part i agree on. Dino has come a long way to be able to run 5-7k miles on an NA car. Of course thats assuming the car is just a daily driver and not getting abused . :thumbsup:

Yea the turbo on my car cant go even 10k on synth since we are having build up issues. 10k intervals on synth is the bare mininum otherwise your warranty will get voided.

I always laugh when I read a car forsale ad that says something like "Mobil 1 oil changes every 3500 miles".... That's like flushing money down the toilet...

No, I wasn’t even thinking about the Integra.
I was talking about the two CL's and the Legend.
We bought the Integra used and only had it a few years and 4-5 oil changes because it was driven so few miles.
The oil was changed once a year when it was inspected and it probably only was driven 5K a year.
I don't know what the previous owner did with it.
My Legend Coupe was the one that went to 110K and was running perfectly with oil changes at 7,500 intervals.

if he tracks the car a lot, then it would make sense

Dont think that would help the sale. :tomato:

:werd: and I think that's exactly what at least 50% of the syntec users on this board do

:co:

99% percent of the general car owner population have no idea what "tracks the car" means.

i use Valvoline Dino Race oil ($3/qt) on my twin turbo and even after 5000+ miles, the oil is still quite clean.

Why synthetic???

What would I do with my banner?

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/ima...2134_900px.jpg

I think that I am going to go ahead and use synthetic in my engine because of its cold temp benefits. I saw the difference with my own eyes the other day on tv like I said before, and we certainly get winter up here. I am still with the oil that came with my car,....HAHA,.....need my first oil change soon though.

Its winter (obviously),............but my first two oil changes are free from Acura. Do you think I should just use their oil (which is petroCanada motor Oil,...conventional) or would it be good to put in synthetic. After reading posts it seems you guys seem to think conventional is fine, but the winter temps here are why I am thinking synthetic and I have to follow the severe maintenance schedule. Should I put in synthetic or will I be fine with conventional???

I do a regular oil change every 4500-5000 miles. :dunno:

All oil is good. Natural, Synthetic, 5W30, 10W30...whatever. I love it all. I love the way it looks, the way it smells, the way it feels against my skin. Sometimes I fill my bath with oil and just lay in it.

You too, huh?

I use Mobil 1 oil and filters...I change every 4,000 to 5,000 miles.
Maybe I am ignorant, maybe I'm throwing money away, but the extra $30 a year for the one extra oil change is really of no consequence to me. I don't know all the ins an outs of oil, I just know it's getting changed when/before it needs to, and that is all that REALLY matters to me :dunno:

My car is currently for sale...I think my ad mentions something to that effect :blush: :tomato:

I used to use regular motor oil til my car hit around 65k (changed every 3-4k miles).. til then it was fine but the engine didnt have that high revving slight kick like it used to. i changed to synthetic afterwards and i started feeling that all over again that it had the first day i bought it. im pretty happy with synthetic and i dont mind paying an extra ten when doing my own oil changes. But it just feels better in the car. I used royal purple synthetic

synthetic > conventional. Thats all you need to know....

Is Master Wan gonna post in here and tell us what he thinks?

I'm back
 

So? Some deposits are perfectly fine...engines are designed to work with reasonable amounts of buildup. Of course the synthetic will flow better, its a question of whether or not you need it. Lubrications isn't a problem even at temps down to -40 with conventional 5W or 10W30...its simply cranking speed. The residual oil leftover on the engine parts at that temperature will provide sufficient lubrication until the engine warms up so syn oil will allow you to gain faster starting...so don't be confused about the lubrication part. OEMs regularly test for unaided starting down to -40F to assume worse-case senario and do FULL accel immediately without warm-up to test for worse-case senario....

Actually it just requires a GM 4718M approved oil...Havoline Synthetic 5W30 or Mobil 1 5W30 are approved...

So? Many of the 502.00 approved oils are capable of 10K drains under most conditions in the 1.8T engine...

Not necessairly true...look at Diesel Pickups for example...most of'em run a dino HEDO (Rotella, Delo, Delvac 1300S, etc) at 5K drains and last well over 300K. Turbos don't require syn, at least a properly designed one, at least on paper. Sure, if it isn't designed properly, oil temps can easily get up to 305F where thermal breakdown may occur with dino oils...if designed properly (and the sump size is large enough), oil temps won't get that high and syn won't be necessary. VW/Audi is now recommending syn oil in all applications to CYA in case of any design flaw.

That car go fine on 10K with syn...we have many people going on 10K drains with Amsoil 5W40 and GC 0W30 in the 1.8T engine...

The sludge issue on the 1.8T engines is overemphasized...few people actually have the problem. The engine is just particularly sensitive and the strict adherence to the 6mo/5K drain interval with dino oil is essential for long-term engine health. The problem comes when people go 1-2K over and the dino oil is already depleted...not as big of a problem in other engines but it is in a small-sump 1.8T.

Again,

Peace of mind > *

Even my buddy who is an audi tech says to change synth every 5k in the 1.8t. He does also in his A4. Ill take his word on how to treat my $33,000 machine. Again better safe than sorry in the long run. Then again we both aren't STOCK. :run:

Plus Audi pays for my oil every 10k miles so i dont mind paying the 5k intervals. Shit my car only takes 4qts, not like it will break me.

Oh and i change my oil filter every 10k though.

:werd: to you Sellout. I personally wouldn't mind paying for an oil change every 5K. M1 10w-30 or Platinum 10w-30 only costs $20 for a 5-qt jug and an PureOne filter only costs $6...$30 every 5K is cheap insurance IMO.

EDIT- change your oil filter at every oil change...they're only $6 or so.

hey Mike I read your post about DIX filters and I looked thru their site and I think they know their stuff and make great products so I am going to get hold of the filter and bring to my next oil change.

wtf are dix filters :tomato:

I disagree slightly, synthetic lubricates better on start up in cold temperatures beacuse of the very reason that it is more viscous than conventional. Engine wear occurs at start-up, so it’s critical that engine parts receive proper lubrication as soon as possible, hence the benefit of the better viscosity of synthetic oil in cold. Synthetic will lubricate faster and more effectively in cold weather, which is better for your engine. The lower "pour point" is good because it means that oil gets where it needs to be more rapidly after a cold start, especially in very cold weather. Sure, conventional will still crank up the engine in -30 weather (although slower than synthetic), but it will probably cause more wear to the engine. This thread inspired me to start learning about motor oil hahaha.

I think I disagree slightly anyway. There is a lot of interesting info out there. Even if I am wrong and this is not true (although a bunch of different things I read said this is the case),.....it gives me piece of mind when I crank the engine when its really cold out. Basically everything I read agreed that,...if you work your engine hard, drive in extreme heat, or have cold weather starts, then synthetic oil should protect the engine better. Other "benefits" of synthetic are up for debate I guess, but I think probably everyone will agree with that????

I confirmed what I wrote previously with a GM engineer....he was the one who told me about the dino oil in cold temp business...as he himself did MANY cold weather tests with dino oil at -40 for validation testing purposes...

Whatever residual oil that remains in the bearings will stay there when the temp is -40...it is very thick and that point and will a high load carrying capacity...it is enough to provide lubrication to the moving parts until the oil is warmed up. There is very little flow needed initially and the lubrication aspect is satisfied by the oil flim leftover.

Your post seems to forget that there is oil leftover on moving parts and at -40 whatever oil trapped in the bearings won't hemmorage out....at least not quickly.

I don't disagree that using synthetic will be beneficial at -40 startups purely due to the more rapid cranking speed, but it isn't needed lubrication wise.

BTW, if syn oils really provided a significant wear reduction over dino oils at cold temp startups, I wonder how all of those engines, running dino oils in the past, were able to survive and still last a long time before syn oils were common.