Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

no.
auto's lose power from motor-wheels that manual's do not.

a very well driven manual will beat the same car in auto any day of the week. (assuming the auto doesnt hold more gears) its not the shifting per say, its the launch and the freed up power from using less "restrictive" system.

in most cases, cars offered in manual are givin an extra gear, hence shorter gears = faster acceleration....

im not sure what "$100,000 sports car" your referring to.
but anybody who wants a drivers car will not be switching to auto anytime soon. reguardless of what said 100k car does.

manual gives you control of your rpms and speed that no computer controlled auto ever will. read up a bit, you'll learn tons

nobody was discussing speed of the shift. it was smoothness. transitioning from one gear to the next without hardly feeling the change....

SpiderX1016

Then test drive a CVT.
You were discussing Instant Power which = Downshifting.

What's that about faster acceleration?
Porsche 911 Turbo - Manual 3.5 sec Auto 3.4 sec
Volkswagen GTI - Manual 6.8 seconds Auto 6.7 seconds

Manuals are outdated compared to Autos.

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

your opinion is fine, i dont know why you're so worked up.
you pull 2 cars off google where the driver didnt get a better time in manual and want to show the world auto's are faster?

ok, you got me, auto's are faster and clearly the choice of experienced drivers alike.

SpiderX1016

I'm fine. I actually took those specs from there site.

It's about the same everywhere else...

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

congrats.
have fun pushing the gas and brake sissy.

SpiderX1016

Ok, just cause your wrong doesn't mean you have to insult me.

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

oh grow some skin man, its a joke. you havent been around long and i can see i should've used red text with you.

i gotta mess with you a bit, your pushing your google knowledge on this thread as fact, yet you've probably never driven a stick shift.

no hard feelings.. i've been rolling the whole time, sorry if i offended you..

SpiderX1016

I've driven a few but I'm not too good at it.

I drive in traffic everyday so I prefer being lazy with an auto

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

btw, im not speaking from stuff searched on the internets. i have driven multiple cars for long periods of time with both, manual and auto transmissions.

i also have taken each and driven them on both the drag strip and amateur road courses. im not blindy bashing auto drivers as i have owned one and drive my fiancee's on a daily basis almost. (its better for short trips to the store)

my point is your not gonna find advanced auto gear boxes in entry level vehicles. if porsche makes their auto faster then the manual, thats great, but i wouldnt take that as word and go around thinking thats how it works with honda/acura and other middle classed aimed vehicles....

there are a few 6spd TL guys around here that would dust the TL-S drivers on any day of the week

Costco

Are those times with PDK or DSG? Those are not automatics, though they certainly are capable of being faster than a manual. Even still... If a car with a dual clutch tranny is faster, smoother, and cheaper than the single clutch manual, I'll still take the 3-pedals, unless of course maybe the manual tranny is complete garbage... In which case I'll probably look for another car.

speedemon90

I believe he is talking about more of the generic auto's.

Supercars are using an automated manual transmission, its different. Im not sure about the whole technical aspect of it. But DSG's SMG's and all those are automated manuals. I believe regular auto's dont have clutch's? Im not sure, but those automated manuals do have a clutches, some more than one.

speedemon90

Im on vw forums and I hear that the DSG has a hefty maintenance cost at 40,000 miles. So I'm gonna bet those transmissions like the DSG and PDK are not cheap to maintain. Ohh and they are prone to more problems

CL6

If we are talking about an A/T Accord vs. a M/T Accord the auto will get better gas mileage but won't be as fun to drive (unless you're in traffic most of the time). A M/T certainly can afford the driver more control over the car and requires more skill to use but their days are numbered in the US. A M/T up against a top notch A/T one, however, simply will not perform as well.

Also the 6 speed Acuras should have slightly better ratios than their A/T cousins which probably make 'em a little faster.

And I'm referring to the Nissan GT-R, and any new Lamborghini or Ferrari. Mitsubishi and VW are seeing these kinds of transmissions filter into their cars as well.

You can push a button faster than you can press/depress a clutch.

Are F1 cars manuals or automatics if performance was so key?

Admit it, you like driving a stick (as do I) but it's not the be all and end all in performance unless you're in an Accord.

knavinusa

Most of the time when the auto is faster than the manual, it has to do with gearing. A closer ratio 7AT is probably going to be faster than a 6MT even with the additional drivetrain loss.

Dual-clutch transmissions are a different story, and you can't really compare it to a torque-converter automatic.

BaByBlAcKtYpE-s

iTrader: (2)

I drove the 2g tl for a couple of years because i figured i was new to driving and should really get driving down and experience, also figure it be easier in traffic.

Well, tranny started to slip to sold the tl and bought a s2000, which has one of the best tranny on the market, i must say it is a whole lot funnier to drive. To hit a downshift rev match perfectly is quite rewarding.

SodaLuvr

I could drive my boss's 4-cyl Jeep Wrangler on flat roads without any problems.

But when I tried driving my friend's '08 GTI on the hills in Santa Cruz, it was as though I had never driven a stick before.

lylen

Daaaaang. I didn't know so many people were gonna be replying to my thread haha. But I had another chance to practice driving standard on my friend's car yesterday and I have to say, I was a little successful this time. My take offs aren't really smooth, but I am working on it. I stalled out about twice (compared to my last try, that was a big improvement).

speedemon90

Yea its gonna take a lot of practice. Even my takeoffs arent smooth haha. Ive driven a manual 4 times and on 4 different cars haha. I basically know the concept, but once i get my own manual car thats when ill just go some where and practice for hours till i get it down.

speedemon90

Im pretty sure manual gets better fuel efficiency than auto, im talking about the accord you mentioned. Most conventional autos wont get as good fuel efficiency as a manual assuming both drivers are in the same conditions trying to get the most out of their mpg.

TheMirror

I don't have the time or the inclination to address all of the incomplete transmission knowledge on this page, so I instead recommend everyone bone up on the difference between:

1. Link: Torque-converter type automatics (every Honda/Acura auto trans, Mercedes auto trans., old Porsche Tiptronic)
and
2. Link: Twin-clutch automated manuals (Audi/VW DSG, V-8 Ferraris, Lamborghini, new Porsche PDK)

Torque converter automatics are generally a few ticks slower and get slightly worse mileage than their manual transmission counterparts, and the reverse is true for the twin-clutch automated manuals.

/info

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

but havent you heard? auto's are faster and thats why expensive car companies disposed of the manual transmissions.

and op.. glad you got some more practice... a few more times and you'll be hooked, if you arent already :thumbup:

CL6

I guess you haven't read up on it. You should make some time for that.

For example, the manual transmission Ferrari California's 0-60 times are 0.3 seconds slower than those for the seven-speed dual-wet-clutch transmission.

My friend who manages a Ferrari dealership told me that they are not dropping the M/T because it's slower but because few people order them but, in fact, the new automatics are better and faster than the manuals and that was the point.

Also, for the Ferrari, gas mileage drops 2MPG with the manual (as it does for the Acura TSX, too... 1mpg City, 2mpg HWY).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar21

but havent you heard?

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

nice use of the large font...

now, if your done... a dual clutch transmission is NOT an automatic transmission. is that hard to fathom?

have you told all the drivers on acurazine that swapped auto cars - manual that their cars are now slower.. i bet they'd beg to differ :wink:

no point in arguing it really.. everytime somebody with your opinion post its to say a porsche or Ferrari with dual clutch systems are faster.. which 1. nobody here owns... and 2. its not just standard auto tranny.

of course some clever comeback about ferrari, porsche, bugatti will emerge after this. i bid this argument adue...

majin ssj eric

Unless you get more gears with the auto like my G37 (slightly better acceleration and mpg with the 7AT over the 6MT)...

TheMirror

It is when Audi denotes their dual-clutch DSG as an automatic on the factory website. See "View 2.0 TFSI Features and Specs"

http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/m...ons_table.html

Seriously, if it has an automatic mode, and it can shift for you automatically, it is an automatic transmission.

That's an acceptable solution to this discussion.

TheMirror

Heh heh, that's why I threw the word "generally" in there. Saves me from having to give myself a

majin ssj eric

I get the feeling that the traditional torque-converter auto (slushbox) gets no love around here. Lets not forget that there are some very good conventional autos that are indeed faster than their manual counterparts (usually due to more gear ratios and shorter gearing). The CTS-V typically performs better with a slushbox compared to the manual and the 7AT tranny in the 370Z is slightly quicker and more fuel efficient than the 6MT. The 8-speed auto in the IS-F is lauded for being a very good tranny with millisecond-shift capability. Slushboxes are also superior to their manual counterparts in many car-specific applications. For instance, the CTS is much preferred with the auto over the stick simply due to the added NVH of the manual as well as unpleasant shift action.

On another point, I think this business of dual-clutch manuals not being automatic gearboxes is a bit convoluted as well. If you are not using a clutch and can drive the car normally with just the gas and brake pedals the car is an automatic. For the purposes of this discussion, the point of the manual tranny is getting to control the operation of the clutch, something you don't get to do in a dual-clutch unit such as DSG and PDK.

CL6

SMART uses a manual transmission that is adapted to function as an automatic... so if you're not pushing a clutch in I'd say it's an automatic because it it quacks like a duck...

knavinusa

See, this is exactly why a lot of people use the term "automated manual" or "semi-automatic" to describe dual-clutch gearboxes. That way you can avoid semantics.

Oh, and I don't think we're denying that slushboxes can be very quick. No doubt the 8AT on the IS-F is something different entirely, and the same goes for any cars that are performance oriented - they modify the auto transmission to allow much more aggressive shifts.

SouthernBoy

This is a revamp of some very old technology.. as in close to 60 years. I remember a schoolmate in high school who had a car (I think it was a DeSoto) that had a 3-speed column shift and a real foot-operated clutch. But he could also just release the clutch slowly at a light and drive the car as though it was an automatic if he wanted. Weird.

In very recent years, we have seen people start to call automatic transmissions with paddles or select shift, semi-manuals or something similar. But they're not. As has been mentioned by several posters, the distinction is quite clear between an automatic and a manual transmission.