Japanese automotive styling....
04-08-2004, 03:07 PM
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Japanese automotive styling....
Okay no flames as I am Asian and I know that this is a touchy topic but....
I have own over 10 Japanese cars including Acuras, Toyotas, Hondas, Mazdas over the last 15 years. Currently I own an Accord, 3.2CL, Toyota Pickup. I also have a couple of German cars (Audi 3.0 Avant, Porsche Boxster S).
What I have notice is that the German cars styling appears to have a much longer life. What I mean is that currently there are several beautiful Japanese cars that are available for the public including G35C, 3.2CL, S2000, Rx8, etc... but 2-3 years from now, I think that their styling will be "obselete" - does that make sense?
Granted the German cars are not known for the highest reliability (even though I've never had any major issues with the German cars that I have own) but their styling seems to last longer then the Japanese. I think the exception is probably NSX, S2000 and Miata (and others?)
What trigger this thought is when I looked at the 2005 Acura RL, I thought to myself where is Acura going with their exterior design?
What do you guys/gals think? Would you sacrifice a little reliability for classic design, fun driving, etc....
I have own over 10 Japanese cars including Acuras, Toyotas, Hondas, Mazdas over the last 15 years. Currently I own an Accord, 3.2CL, Toyota Pickup. I also have a couple of German cars (Audi 3.0 Avant, Porsche Boxster S).
What I have notice is that the German cars styling appears to have a much longer life. What I mean is that currently there are several beautiful Japanese cars that are available for the public including G35C, 3.2CL, S2000, Rx8, etc... but 2-3 years from now, I think that their styling will be "obselete" - does that make sense?
Granted the German cars are not known for the highest reliability (even though I've never had any major issues with the German cars that I have own) but their styling seems to last longer then the Japanese. I think the exception is probably NSX, S2000 and Miata (and others?)
What trigger this thought is when I looked at the 2005 Acura RL, I thought to myself where is Acura going with their exterior design?
What do you guys/gals think? Would you sacrifice a little reliability for classic design, fun driving, etc....
04-08-2004, 03:17 PM
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Hondas in particluar refresh every 3 years and redesign every 5. Most other companies do the same.
Luxury cars though, SHOULD NOT change constantly. Acura has done that and that is why no one can identify one sans the NSX.
Germans make very solid designs, are not really risk takers design wise and expect the design to last 10 years or so. No one wants to drop 50k or 100k on a car that will be changed every 3 years. I think this is a very good strategy as you can tell a say BMW or Benz that is 30 years old to a new one.
I do find German cars looking more Japanese in design and some Japanese cars looking more German in design, as the 2 compete more and more.
Luxury cars though, SHOULD NOT change constantly. Acura has done that and that is why no one can identify one sans the NSX.
Germans make very solid designs, are not really risk takers design wise and expect the design to last 10 years or so. No one wants to drop 50k or 100k on a car that will be changed every 3 years. I think this is a very good strategy as you can tell a say BMW or Benz that is 30 years old to a new one.
I do find German cars looking more Japanese in design and some Japanese cars looking more German in design, as the 2 compete more and more.
04-08-2004, 03:40 PM
#5
CLS 6MT Navi
I'd add the Legend Coupe design, even after 10 years it looks distinctive. I think BMW has changed your German theory with their new styles. Too trendy, swoopy, and curvy.
I agree about the new RL, it's an art at how generic Acura can make a new car. It has nothing distinctive but nothing controversial, it's bland, but not boring. It's non-distinct yet also a sort of new design too. Toyota and Honda have reached the pinnacle of this 'generic yet new', approach, trying to be conservative and not alienate buyers. Dramatic designs like the new Z, get lots of attention, but I read Z sales are already on the decline.
I want a car design that is not instantly forgettable, the TSX, and the 04 TL rear, are forgettable. With the RL there is nothing visual to remember.
To me the most innovative and fresh designs have been Audi. Even tho subdued, the A6 is amazing to me for some reason. A very integrated look, from head to tail. The TL looks like a different car from every angle, too many ideas.
I agree about the new RL, it's an art at how generic Acura can make a new car. It has nothing distinctive but nothing controversial, it's bland, but not boring. It's non-distinct yet also a sort of new design too. Toyota and Honda have reached the pinnacle of this 'generic yet new', approach, trying to be conservative and not alienate buyers. Dramatic designs like the new Z, get lots of attention, but I read Z sales are already on the decline.
I want a car design that is not instantly forgettable, the TSX, and the 04 TL rear, are forgettable. With the RL there is nothing visual to remember.
To me the most innovative and fresh designs have been Audi. Even tho subdued, the A6 is amazing to me for some reason. A very integrated look, from head to tail. The TL looks like a different car from every angle, too many ideas.
04-08-2004, 03:51 PM
#6
SHIFT_over.so.I.can.see
you own 5 cars right now? maybe you should look into just gettin 1 nice one 
... I mean an accord, CL, truck, audi wagon, AND a boxster S? 5 decent cars or 1 superpimp car? just a thought.
... I mean an accord, CL, truck, audi wagon, AND a boxster S? 5 decent cars or 1 superpimp car? just a thought.
04-08-2004, 03:54 PM
#7
You want to talk about classic design/no change-turn over towards Jaguar. For instance, they haven't come out with a new design in how many years?! I mean, yes there was the S-Type, but that was just a flashback to the old 120's. Then you have the XK series that hasn't had a major redesign since-well, I can't even remeber when their last major re-design was!
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04-08-2004, 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Hondas in particluar refresh every 3 years and redesign every 5. Most other companies do the same.
Luxury cars though, SHOULD NOT change constantly. Acura has done that and that is why no one can identify one sans the NSX.
Germans make very solid designs, are not really risk takers design wise and expect the design to last 10 years or so. No one wants to drop 50k or 100k on a car that will be changed every 3 years. I think this is a very good strategy as you can tell a say BMW or Benz that is 30 years old to a new one.
I do find German cars looking more Japanese in design and some Japanese cars looking more German in design, as the 2 compete more and more.
Hondas in particluar refresh every 3 years and redesign every 5. Most other companies do the same.
Luxury cars though, SHOULD NOT change constantly. Acura has done that and that is why no one can identify one sans the NSX.
Germans make very solid designs, are not really risk takers design wise and expect the design to last 10 years or so. No one wants to drop 50k or 100k on a car that will be changed every 3 years. I think this is a very good strategy as you can tell a say BMW or Benz that is 30 years old to a new one.
I do find German cars looking more Japanese in design and some Japanese cars looking more German in design, as the 2 compete more and more.
You hit the nail on the head..
04-08-2004, 04:40 PM
#9
Still trolling
I concur, style would not get so obsoulete if the manufacturer would quit redesigning them.
On a similar note, European design is distinct, and isn't poluted by the doemstic/Japanese styling war.
On a similar note, European design is distinct, and isn't poluted by the doemstic/Japanese styling war.
04-08-2004, 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by 123456SPEED
I'd add the Legend Coupe design, even after 10 years it looks distinctive. I think BMW has changed your German theory with their new styles. Too trendy, swoopy, and curvy.
I agree about the new RL, it's an art at how generic Acura can make a new car. It has nothing distinctive but nothing controversial, it's bland, but not boring. It's non-distinct yet also a sort of new design too. Toyota and Honda have reached the pinnacle of this 'generic yet new', approach, trying to be conservative and not alienate buyers. Dramatic designs like the new Z, get lots of attention, but I read Z sales are already on the decline.
I want a car design that is not instantly forgettable, the TSX, and the 04 TL rear, are forgettable. With the RL there is nothing visual to remember.
To me the most innovative and fresh designs have been Audi. Even tho subdued, the A6 is amazing to me for some reason. A very integrated look, from head to tail. The TL looks like a different car from every angle, too many ideas.
I'd add the Legend Coupe design, even after 10 years it looks distinctive. I think BMW has changed your German theory with their new styles. Too trendy, swoopy, and curvy.
I agree about the new RL, it's an art at how generic Acura can make a new car. It has nothing distinctive but nothing controversial, it's bland, but not boring. It's non-distinct yet also a sort of new design too. Toyota and Honda have reached the pinnacle of this 'generic yet new', approach, trying to be conservative and not alienate buyers. Dramatic designs like the new Z, get lots of attention, but I read Z sales are already on the decline.
I want a car design that is not instantly forgettable, the TSX, and the 04 TL rear, are forgettable. With the RL there is nothing visual to remember.
To me the most innovative and fresh designs have been Audi. Even tho subdued, the A6 is amazing to me for some reason. A very integrated look, from head to tail. The TL looks like a different car from every angle, too many ideas.
04-08-2004, 04:55 PM
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I remember a show on styling on either Discovery or the History channel. It summed up how to make a car look like a luxury car. The majority of the show was on the Germans, only at the end did they talk about a Japanese car (the LS 400).
Nowadays, with Kias and Hyandais and EVERYONE copying luxury car styling cues, it is becoming harder for a LUXURY CAR to look like a LUXURY CAR.
A trademark luxury item is the grill. Luxury cars are made with huge, flashy grills. Since the Rolls Royce's of the 30s to the Benz's today. Luxury=giant grill. Looking at luxury cars from the early 90s to today, EVERY ONE has a larger grill than before. It presents PRESTIGE and LUXURY.
Another part of the grill is it is attached to the hood. When you open the hood, the grill opens up too.
But shit happened. Cheap cars started copying luxury cars left and right. Take the Nissan Altima. For an economy car, it has a huge grill. The Hyandi Sonata comes to mind. The Camry grill is larger than before.
More shit happened. Cheap cars now how their grills attached to their hoods. And luxury cars are one by one abadoning this feature. Take the new GS or new BMWs for example. The grill is built in the front bumper. This is the total opposite of what luxury cars have been doing for decades. Most all cars have this. It looses some of the luxury.
Height is also equated with luxury. Take the previous generation S-class or current LS 430. Pretty bland cars but they have great presence with the slab sides and huge grills and TALL ride height. Like 58 inches tall. Tank like, is a term used. They are huge cars. More examples are the A8 or 745il. Ever see how long the rear doors are?
Now we have the new Maxima as an example, not a cheap car but not a luxury car. And it is huge. A full size bigger than the last Maxima. Slap sides. Tall ride height. It has the luxury look. The Toyota Avalon comes to mind as well. The Kia Amati clearly stole many luxury car styling cues.
Finally, designers are relying on the computer too, too much. What looks good on a dimensional computer screen may not look good in person. We have to get back to CLAY models. It takes longer but the cars looked better. Every car nowadays has creases left and right and some form of "flame surfacing/new edge design". It's the computer.
Nowadays, with Kias and Hyandais and EVERYONE copying luxury car styling cues, it is becoming harder for a LUXURY CAR to look like a LUXURY CAR.
A trademark luxury item is the grill. Luxury cars are made with huge, flashy grills. Since the Rolls Royce's of the 30s to the Benz's today. Luxury=giant grill. Looking at luxury cars from the early 90s to today, EVERY ONE has a larger grill than before. It presents PRESTIGE and LUXURY.
Another part of the grill is it is attached to the hood. When you open the hood, the grill opens up too.
But shit happened. Cheap cars started copying luxury cars left and right. Take the Nissan Altima. For an economy car, it has a huge grill. The Hyandi Sonata comes to mind. The Camry grill is larger than before.
More shit happened. Cheap cars now how their grills attached to their hoods. And luxury cars are one by one abadoning this feature. Take the new GS or new BMWs for example. The grill is built in the front bumper. This is the total opposite of what luxury cars have been doing for decades. Most all cars have this. It looses some of the luxury.
Height is also equated with luxury. Take the previous generation S-class or current LS 430. Pretty bland cars but they have great presence with the slab sides and huge grills and TALL ride height. Like 58 inches tall. Tank like, is a term used. They are huge cars. More examples are the A8 or 745il. Ever see how long the rear doors are?
Now we have the new Maxima as an example, not a cheap car but not a luxury car. And it is huge. A full size bigger than the last Maxima. Slap sides. Tall ride height. It has the luxury look. The Toyota Avalon comes to mind as well. The Kia Amati clearly stole many luxury car styling cues.
Finally, designers are relying on the computer too, too much. What looks good on a dimensional computer screen may not look good in person. We have to get back to CLAY models. It takes longer but the cars looked better. Every car nowadays has creases left and right and some form of "flame surfacing/new edge design". It's the computer.
04-09-2004, 04:15 AM
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..What 1SICKLEX said...!! I whole-heartedly agree.. but unfortunately... these are not just cues... it's the TREND...
Look at cartoons.. All are now computer simulated, Disney laid off their LAST 236 cartunists.. that did things by hand... I am pretty sure that is the fate of auto clay makers... Yes.. time is money, but the sense of realism is GONE - applications are NOT powerful enough to mimic 'reality', yet they save shitloads of money... What surprises me is the ABSENSE of Media.. - since it is a basic form of FRAUD in making us believe that something is 'new'.. then in reality it is not even an 'improvement' from the 'old & true'.
Good point re. 'specs'... A diamond, no matter how perfectly sculpted [per specs], if the cut sucks - the entire brilliance is sacrificed. Same goes with cars - forms & images aren't enough to satisfy the end results.
Even Benzes, Rolls, Jags, Bimmers... - just take a look when something from the 70s and even 80s rolls along... and compare to the designs of today... Most aren't even worthy to be called... that.. [designs].
Lastly... is it me... or has Toyota become the LEAST exciting automaker as of late?? They have NO 'engine'.. the quality of their materials is getting 'worse', resembling GM, and their style, such as new Camry Solara... I haven't seen 1 guy driving that thing ..
Pardon in advance for 'bias'... yet we are fortunate to have 'something' still worthy to get frisky about... Love thy CLs, G35s, Z, and the last of the Mohicans... i.e. the best ever sculpted 3 series...
Look at cartoons.. All are now computer simulated, Disney laid off their LAST 236 cartunists.. that did things by hand... I am pretty sure that is the fate of auto clay makers... Yes.. time is money, but the sense of realism is GONE - applications are NOT powerful enough to mimic 'reality', yet they save shitloads of money... What surprises me is the ABSENSE of Media.. - since it is a basic form of FRAUD in making us believe that something is 'new'.. then in reality it is not even an 'improvement' from the 'old & true'.
Good point re. 'specs'... A diamond, no matter how perfectly sculpted [per specs], if the cut sucks - the entire brilliance is sacrificed. Same goes with cars - forms & images aren't enough to satisfy the end results.
Even Benzes, Rolls, Jags, Bimmers... - just take a look when something from the 70s and even 80s rolls along... and compare to the designs of today... Most aren't even worthy to be called... that.. [designs].
Lastly... is it me... or has Toyota become the LEAST exciting automaker as of late?? They have NO 'engine'
.. the quality of their materials is getting 'worse', resembling GM, and their style, such as new Camry Solara... I haven't seen 1 guy driving that thing .. Pardon in advance for 'bias'... yet we are fortunate to have 'something' still worthy to get frisky about... Love thy CLs, G35s, Z, and the last of the Mohicans... i.e. the best ever sculpted 3 series..
.
04-09-2004, 05:19 AM
#13
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Re: Very cool...
Originally posted by mark_12345
I like this forum...
I can talk about touchy topics and actually have a good conversation on the topic without flames...
I like this forum...
I can talk about touchy topics and actually have a good conversation on the topic without flames...
04-09-2004, 05:45 AM
#14
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Originally posted by patek007
..What 1SICKLEX said...!! I whole-heartedly agree.. but unfortunately... these are not just cues... it's the TREND...
Look at cartoons.. All are now computer simulated, Disney laid off their LAST 236 cartunists.. that did things by hand... I am pretty sure that is the fate of auto clay makers... Yes.. time is money, but the sense of realism is GONE - applications are NOT powerful enough to mimic 'reality', yet they save shitloads of money... What surprises me is the ABSENSE of Media.. - since it is a basic form of FRAUD in making us believe that something is 'new'.. then in reality it is not even an 'improvement' from the 'old & true'.
Good point re. 'specs'... A diamond, no matter how perfectly sculpted [per specs], if the cut sucks - the entire brilliance is sacrificed. Same goes with cars - forms & images aren't enough to satisfy the end results.
Even Benzes, Rolls, Jags, Bimmers... - just take a look when something from the 70s and even 80s rolls along... and compare to the designs of today... Most aren't even worthy to be called... that.. [designs].
Lastly... is it me... or has Toyota become the LEAST exciting automaker as of late?? They have NO 'engine'.. the quality of their materials is getting 'worse', resembling GM, and their style, such as new Camry Solara... I haven't seen 1 guy driving that thing ..
Pardon in advance for 'bias'... yet we are fortunate to have 'something' still worthy to get frisky about... Love thy CLs, G35s, Z, and the last of the Mohicans... i.e. the best ever sculpted 3 series...
..What 1SICKLEX said...!! I whole-heartedly agree.. but unfortunately... these are not just cues... it's the TREND...
Look at cartoons.. All are now computer simulated, Disney laid off their LAST 236 cartunists.. that did things by hand... I am pretty sure that is the fate of auto clay makers... Yes.. time is money, but the sense of realism is GONE - applications are NOT powerful enough to mimic 'reality', yet they save shitloads of money... What surprises me is the ABSENSE of Media.. - since it is a basic form of FRAUD in making us believe that something is 'new'.. then in reality it is not even an 'improvement' from the 'old & true'.
Good point re. 'specs'... A diamond, no matter how perfectly sculpted [per specs], if the cut sucks - the entire brilliance is sacrificed. Same goes with cars - forms & images aren't enough to satisfy the end results.
Even Benzes, Rolls, Jags, Bimmers... - just take a look when something from the 70s and even 80s rolls along... and compare to the designs of today... Most aren't even worthy to be called... that.. [designs].
Lastly... is it me... or has Toyota become the LEAST exciting automaker as of late?? They have NO 'engine'
.. the quality of their materials is getting 'worse', resembling GM, and their style, such as new Camry Solara... I haven't seen 1 guy driving that thing .. Pardon in advance for 'bias'... yet we are fortunate to have 'something' still worthy to get frisky about... Love thy CLs, G35s, Z, and the last of the Mohicans... i.e. the best ever sculpted 3 series..
.
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