Seattle Cl-S

I've gotta tell ya, the more I hear about this car the more pissed off I get. I am trying soooooo hard not to want one and I'm having a terrible time accomplishing this goal.

I currently drive a pretty modified '05 Cadillac CTS-V and I have a profound love/hate relationship with it. I love the power (about 450hp/400tq at the rear wheels - good for 116mph trap in the 1/4), I love the 6-spd manual and I love the handling for a car this size. The price was also hard to beat as well as the cost of aftermarket mods to this LS6 motor. However, I hate the cheapy interior, hate the rattles and most of all, hate the fact that I've gone though 3 rear differentials in the two years I've owned it.

I've been trying to "do the right thing" and buy American when I feel the product is worthy of my hard-earned $$. The next CTS-V comes out in late '08 and is supposed to have 500+hp and have GM's best interior ever produced (which isn't saying much). I was sure that I'd give GM another shot at making me a car a bit closer to "perfection" but now that the C63's specs are out and about I'm thinking about switching nameplates.

I guess the point of this post is this: Please try to tell me why I WOULDN'T want a C63. It just seems to have all the things I love about cars...

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._dynamics.html

Fibonacci

SuperTrooper169

iTrader: (2)

It only comes with an automatic?

stangg172004

its a Mercedes, they come with seven speed automatics. At least the 550 does, this might have the 5speed cause thats a lot of tq!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't matter how many speeds it has, it's still an automatic.

jlspeed29

If it helps we all know MB is owned by Chrysler? lol if that helps ease your decision

srika

get a M5. :P

M =

AMG =

your CTS is nice too.

derrick

^ MB owned by Chrysler? Last time I checked ... it was DaimlerChrysler (not ChryslerMercedes) when they merged. But as of last month, the Germans SOLD Chrysler to Cerberus Group.

And a good reason why not to buy a Mercedes? Quality control of their products are suspect -- maybe it's changed since 2002 ... but I still don't trust it. Secondly ... depreciation on an AMG product drops like a stone after a couple of years. It's almost as bad as a domestic car.

I do think your loyalties has a good intention, but this day and age ... what it's branded does not equate to where it's made or 'protect' American jobs. I bet a big chunk of any US automaker's parts have foreign content, but not > 50% within a particular vehicle so that it does not meet NAFTA rules for exportation/importation. It's all about cost savings and quarterly profit reports for the boys on Wall St.

(Think about it -- Hondas are being built by Americans in Ohio; Toyotas in Kentucky; BMWs in South Carolina, etc ...)

MotionEffects

All the new V6(272), V8(273), AMG 63(156) Comes with the 7 speed. The older V6(112), V8(113), and AMG 55's(113) where a mix of 5spd or 7spd.

SiGGy

Not anymore... they sold/split earlier this year. Where you been?!?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/2302016.cms

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

reason not to get it- no MT

jlspeed29

^^ thanks for the update..i stand corrected...diddnt know lol.....
i been in hiding apparently! ahaha

stangg172004

not picking sides, just stating fact

nokiaman

Depreciation would be the only downside.And you might get a few speeding ticket if you buy this car.Otherwise, I love it. It's fast,sexy and roomy. Check out the RS4 if you decide to go the AMG way.The Audi is worth a look

phil2

I had a 600+whp gto before I bought my lotus and after owning a gm product and a mercedes as well there is no real comparison. The gto was decently built but the materials used were definitely shit in comparison to other imports in the same price range and in comparison to the mercedes its night and day. The c63 is sex on wheels, but I can't see myself driving an auto yet looking at the new m3 and its weight its pretty much close to my old gto which was less than desirable on a road course with similar power. The rs4 is another choice like nokia said, but its more money and depreciates the same if not worse. Realize with all of the mentioned cars the easy/cheap mods are no more like you have now with the cts-v.

Seattle Cl-S

I've definitely taken this into consideration. That's why the RS4 is absolutely out of the loop. No way to cheaply make that already-too-stressed motor more powerful. It's also pretty heavy.

I do realize the AMG is auto only and yes, indeed, this does bother me. However, the traffic in Seattle is getting worse and worse and there have been times that my clutch leg starts getting pretty tired. The clutch on the CTS is fairly heavy I guess. Another thing, it's kinda hard to drive a high power and heavier car (like my CTSV) in a smooth manner. Small pedal inputs in 1st and 2nd gears result in a bit of a lunge if you're not careful. It makes my wife kinda motion-sick sometimes and I worry I'll give my newborn baby whiplash if he rides with me. Since this was my first manual tranny car I thought it was just me until I drove my friend's JCW Mini Cooper. I was smooth as butter the first time I drove it b/c the thing is torqueless in comparison. I think I have as much torque as he does when my car is still off

Thanks for the discussion.

phil2

I am in the same boat as you. I daily drive my sti and I'm constantly on the phone (nearly 6,000 min+) a month and I drive 35k miles a year and I really only enjoy the manual on the back roads on my way home everyday. I bought it as a track car/winter and now its strictly a beater so I am seriously considering something auto and possibly awd as well. The rs4 should be priced where the s4 is in my opinion for what you get the s4 is basically neck and neck with the 335xi and in reality I think I would take the bmw. Sorry for the rambling..just trying to help

SeCsTaC

Get the C63...

Allout

Build quality and repairs are the issues that I've heard of. The president of the company has had two CL55 AMG's. The first one had tons of problems and kept on going back to the shop for repairs. A lot of weird electrical issues would crop up. He dealt with it for a couple of years trying to work through it. MB sent him a survey and he wrote a very nice response. The end result was they exchanged his two year old CL55 AMG for a brand new one. He had better luck with that one until someone ran into him. I heard that he was considering a replacement BMW but in the end, he's back with a CL63 AMG.

My boss has a SL500 and she's had issues with hers too. It may be the local dealership but they can't seem to get repairs done in one shot. It seems that it goes back in multiple times to resolve the same issue. Parts are always on order. At around 28K miles, it needed a brake job on front and rear. I think that job was over $2K to replace the rotors and pads.

Both of these people still love their cars and tolerate the repairs.

Beltfed

Screw that, doesn't matter and MB has crappy manuals anyway......the 7spd tranny is awesome in the E63. I know because I've driven it.

That small car with 457hp and that transmission is going to be awesome. And most buyers who are in the market for the car don't really give a shit. For those that really do care, would end up with an M3 anyway even if both had a manual.

Its already getting great reviews.

Going to be a great everyday driver.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

^^^ oh, i totally agree. i would be totally content w/ any AMG (...)63 vehicle based solely on the hp and the pinache of the MB star but the op currently has a MT and is asking for a reason not to get the C63.

DISRUPTV

maybe it'll make u come back to the german darkside?

i am seriously considering this 4 my next whip...the only thing im not too fond of is the interior....

Seattle Cl-S

Thanks Jeff. I've heard of these electrical gremlins before...though mainly regarding the last model of S-class cars. My CTS-V certainly hasn't been without frequent trips to the dealership. I still seem to love it somehow. When it's all good, it's ALL GOOD in Baby-V. Just yesterday I took her for a sideways slide and just thought to myself 'damn I love this car.' I'm just getting lazy and pretty sick of the wifely telling me to buy something else (she hates my car).

Beltfed

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of the interior myself, but can deal with it. Price also could be a bit of a hurdle, close to $60k base most likely....all said and done $65k-$68k.

I think its going to be cheaper than the RS4, but buy how much is the question.

Seattle Cl-S

Aren't base RS4's $70k+?? I'm hoping to get $35k or so for my CTS-V w/ all mods included when the time comes to trade it in. The car should be worth about $30k and I've got about $13k into it in mods (not that you usually get much back for that). I've even got an extra set of R-compounds mounted on track wheels that have a couple more track days left in them. That'll make the C63 a little more "affordable".

Beltfed

$66k base before GG tax/dest.....$68,875 as of 2007.

Add $4k+ for the premium package.

Not cheap.

fsttyms1

Id wait for the New CTS-V it will be on par with MB and much faster

Seattle Cl-S

I haven't written it off completely. It'll have to be damn good though. At least 500 crank hp or I won't bite...

NightRider

Along with many others, I have always loved MB. My biggest advice would be DO NOT buy one new, too much money washing away with depreciation. A few years back I bought a 1997 C280 with 75k on it. No problems except for 2 people hitting me in the course of a year! I drove it up to 105k until it started having a couple small electrical problems then traded it for the then new 04TL. Oh, I also had to replace the power antenna as even the CD player did not work without the antenna going up
Benzes just give you a great feeling driving them, almost hard to explain. It felt so solid and well built. I understand the C Class was pretty reliable back then, it might fair worse nowadays.

So you seem to like the "baby" sedan class...I can't blame you, that C class just zipped around and was so maneuverable, handling was great, I miss RWD. The Benz will be more luxurious than even the new Caddy, guaranteed. MB has recently just always gone the AT route, except for the SLK. The previous gen high perf benzes all had the beefed up 5AT (55's and 600's), apparently they believe luxury and MT just don't go together? As a note though, you will be hard pressed to find a Bentley, Rolls Royce, or Maybach with a manual. I think many amateurs and pros will agree though that MB seems superior in ride quality and plushness. I think overall as a brand MB is leaned slightly towards luxury, while BMW is leaned towards sport. Yes BMW has manuals but I don't need to hear the Car and Driver "BMW = best cars evar!" speech. Watch the Top Gear episode with the CLS55 and the M5, I found it interesting. That's my

NightRider

Also, I hate to say it but it seems the 63 (actually 6.2) in the C is detuned a bit. Retuning although expensive could give you the extra 55-65hp/25tq in the upper level 63's. The Ultimate would be a C65 with the new 6.0 V12 - 604HP/738TQ!

EDIT: Actually the 2008 C63 DOES come in 6MT

fsttyms1

Well judging buy the new interior pics id say the interior is a hit, and i bet teh V version will be 500+ like they have been rumoring.

Seattle Cl-S

Where did you hear this?

srika

uhh... how about

bigman

The C63 will cost you an arm and leg to modify. And if modifying is your thing, then that would be the deal breaker. If the CTSV comes with a supercharged LS, then you are a oulley away from serious power. If it comes with an LS7, then you are some bolt ons and a tune away from awesome power. All of which can be had for cheap on the Caddy. If you arent going to mod, the benz is the better choice though. But, I'm a mod guy so the CTS-V would do it for me.

Muhtish

this is why qualities of these cars are going down.

Seattle Cl-S

I'm pretty sure the Japanese cars still rank at the top of reliability...

phil2

I call on the c63 Getting a manual transmission

Seattle Cl-S

If this article is true then I think my thoughts of going to MB have just been squashed...

http://www.motortrend.com/features/a...adillac_cts_v/

phil2

Thats siiiiiiick! ^

stright-(paint)balling

about Hondas being built in Ohio.
Slow your roll there's chief. dad worked out there for 25 years will probably retire probably in 2-3 years. i live in the heart of Honda country.
Nissan Corp. Headquarters is based out of TN. so they must believe enough in US to move them from CA to TN and not back home. (personally i think the labor and cost of land in CA forced them to move)
Toyota been in IN(old Tundra plant, TX(New Tundra plant), Kentucky(Camry), and MI(research and development)
but the fact is just cause it's made in america it's garbage.

Honda,Nissan, and Toyota not only rate high in quality reports also their probably the fastest growing 3 car companies in the world. and as fast a Toyota growing they wouldn't investigate to build plants in america if we didn't have the talent or capabilities to supply them with quality workers.

I know your thinking well look at Ford,GM and Dodge. those are due to management and quality assurance measures not being implemented or followed.